Administrators Popular Post Alex Posted May 31, 2019 Administrators Popular Post Share Posted May 31, 2019 Recently it came to my attention that there may be some sort of exploit in the game that was being used to generate resources. After a long day of investigation, I believe that the (now deleted) nation with ID 151129 was able to generate approximately: 12.2m Coal 11.8m Oil 10.1m Uranium 13.3m Iron 11.2m Bauxite 12m Lead 16.6m Gasoline 15.5m Munitions 18.3m Steel 15.3m Aluminum As far as I can tell, they were either unable or unwilling to generate money or Food. It appears that much of the resources generated were sold on the market to be converted to cash. I have strong reason to believe that this individual was able to generate these funds using the existing trade interface. I do not believe this was an especially malicious exploit or that anyone had access to the database, and certainly I do not have any reason to believe anyone's information was compromised. As I understand it, they were able to use multis (which have since been deleted) to "double-accept" trades and end up duplicating the resources. This happened because the script would process both requests simultaneously without realizing the trade had already been accepted, thus issuing the resources to both accepting nations. I have made a patch to the game's code that I believe will eliminate the potential to do this. At the very least, the way that trade transactions are now logged, it will now be very obvious if this occurs. Here in the near future I will be working on addressing this issue further to ensure the integrity and security of the game's code, but in a worst case scenario it will be easy to spot and punish anyone that finds a way to abuse an exploit of this nature going forward. The majority of the resources that were generated were deposited into the alliance Animal Pharm (ID 5429) on 4-28, which I understand to be an "offshore" bank account for the alliance Nova Riata. I believe that they were certainly able to and did use the resources and funds from selling the resources to benefit their alliance member nations, however at this time I do not have any reason to believe there was any grand conspiracy to cheat by the Nova Riata government, and while it is impossible to know how much they knew, I generally believe they did not realize that the resources they acquired from nation ID 151129 were illegally generated. I do believe that the players pooball and The North 14 were intimately involved with the now deleted exploiting nation, but again, I do not see evidence of any grand conspiracy other than that they simply did not question the origin of the resources. The resources and money generated were bounced around between Nova Riata and Animal Pharm before yesterday being transferred to another alliance Ripping (ID 5380, now deleted) and ultimately from there to Last man standing (ID 5553). That alliance is currently held by what I believe to be a multi of the main culprit called Dog1. At this time, I have placed that nation into Vacation Mode so that the money and resources stored in that offshore account cannot be touched and the account is preserved for the moment while I do additional investigation. However, my intention is to ultimately ban that account and delete the alliance, which will delete all of the money and resources stored in that alliance bank. The contents of that alliance bank currently are: I believe that these funds are largely the illicitly gained resources and the funds from selling those resources, as well as some amount of Nova Riata's actual warchest funds being stored "offshore." While I am not explicitly punishing anyone in Nova Riata for the unfair advantage they have gained as a result of this exploit, I believe that by deleting the entirety of these bank contents, they are going to lose the vast, vast majority of their stored money and resources, and it will effectively serve as a sort of collective justice for their member nations to set things right. Again, I will continue investigating and working to improve the integrity of the game. On a personal note, I just graduated from college a couple of weeks ago and moved shortly after, so I have been pretty busy with my personal life and wasn't able to get to this issue as quickly as I would have liked. However, going forward I am going to be dedicated a lot of time to P&W and improving the game. If I find out any other pertinent information, or this situation changes, I will keep you all updated. EDIT: I will note that after further consideration, a number of cities were deleted as well. Read more about that here: 15 18 Is there a bug? Report It | Not understanding game mechanics? Ask About It | Got a good idea? Suggest ItForums Rules | Game Link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Sphinx Posted June 1, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted June 1, 2019 (edited) I guess crime does pay. Next time my bank deposits $1 million into my account by mistake I'll just go buy a Ferrari. The bank records of Nova high gov clearly show far more than those totals so they've used a large amount of those resources so far (Probably in their wars against KETOG/Panth and of course for buying new cities for their high gov). its good the ill-gotten resources are gone from the game but their should be a punishment for those actions in knowingly exploiting a bug to the degree that they did. Edited June 1, 2019 by Sphinx Typo. 4 37 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Ayayay Posted June 1, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted June 1, 2019 (edited) You should delete cities that were given as government grants as well. Start with the government and then move onto the members until 20% over the value of sold resources is reached (the additional percentage to represent the extra funds and resources they generated by purchasing more cities than they should've been able to), it's completely fair imho. Edited June 1, 2019 by Malal 31 Orbis Wars | CSI: UPN | B I G O O F | PW Expert Has Nerve To Tell You How To Run Your Own Goddamn Alliance | Occupy Wall Street | Sheepy Sings TheNG - My favorite part is when Steve suggests DEIC might have done something remotely successful, then gets massively shit on for proposing such a stupid idea. On 1/4/2016 at 6:37 PM, Sheepy said: This was !@#$ing gold. 10/10 possibly my favorite post on these forums yet. Sheepy said: I'm retarded, you win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Zei-Sakura Alsainn Posted June 1, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted June 1, 2019 Mother of god, if you have an offshore surely you keep track of its contents right? 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gatorcock Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 Tiny bank, mines is bigger. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Alex Posted June 1, 2019 Author Administrators Share Posted June 1, 2019 1 minute ago, Sphinx said: I guess crime does pay. The bank records of Nova high gov clearly show far more than those totals so they've used a large amount of those resources so far (Probably in their wars against KETOG/Panth and of course for buying new cities for their high gov). its good the ill-gotten resources are gone from the game but there should be a punishment for those actions in knowingly exploiting a bug to the degree that they did. I don't disagree with you, but I don't really have any proof that anyone was knowingly exploiting a bug except for the guy who actually did exploit the bug, who has since deleted all of his nations (except the Dog1 account linked above.) I am trying to be fair to the average members of Nova Riata who very likely did benefit from this exploit but did so unknowingly. As I stated above, I do believe pooball and The North 14 were most intimately involved, but I still do not feel comfortable punishing them without further evidence they were intentionally abusing the bug for their own benefit. 3 13 Is there a bug? Report It | Not understanding game mechanics? Ask About It | Got a good idea? Suggest ItForums Rules | Game Link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexio15 Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 1 minute ago, Akuryo said: Mother of god, if you have an offshore surely you keep track of its contents right? Apparently not if you're pooballs you just sit there not knowing 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zygon Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 Good god, thanks for your work Alex. 1 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Buorhann Posted June 1, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted June 1, 2019 Why do you believe this isn't intentional with those close to the culprit? They practiced this on the Test server then brought it over here. Clearly there's quite some members in Nova who OBVIOUSLY benefited from this. Also, can you thoroughly investigate anybody else duplicating this exploit too or is this a hard thing to search for? 38 1 Warrior of Dio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfPCFQfOnLg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post RightHonorable Posted June 1, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted June 1, 2019 There is no conceivable way in which the government of NR didn't know what what going on in their offshore. Perhaps they didn't give the order to use the exploit, but they certainly didn't do a thing to discourage its use. 16 Haatyc or'arue jate'shya ori'sol aru'ike nuhaatyc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinesomeMC Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 14 minutes ago, Alex said: I have made a patch to the game's code that I believe will eliminate the potential to do this. Damn it, guess I cant become rich ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James II Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 I'm surprised you did something, still too little. 2 2 "Most successful new AA" - Samuel Bates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Sphinx Posted June 1, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted June 1, 2019 Just now, Alex said: I don't disagree with you, but I don't really have any proof that anyone was knowingly exploiting a bug except for the guy who actually did exploit the bug, who has since deleted all of his nations (except the Dog1 account linked above.) I am trying to be fair to the average members of Nova Riata who very likely did benefit from this exploit but did so unknowingly. As I stated above, I do believe pooball and The North 14 were most intimately involved, but I still do not feel comfortable punishing them without further evidence they were intentionally abusing the bug for their own benefit. I agree the avg Nova member doesn't deserve punishment, but for Poo to claim he didn't know where those resources came from is so clearly an insult to our intelligence. I can say I know exactly how much tCW has in our offshore, and I'd wager every single alliance leader does (Keeping track of that is our job and I'd be failing tCW if I didn't know). The fact is the growth of the top gov members of Nova was illegally obtained, I personal don't want to see them banned, but I feel they should be reset back to one city and have their inventory wiped at the very least since otherwise their lies have gotten them off Scot-free. (Apart from destroying their credibility with the wider community.) 26 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buorhann Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 Also, I like to bring up the fact that it seems this was brought to your attention in the past. While, at the time, I can understand not really looking into it - but it does show that they knew exactly what they were doing and that they had plenty of time to do it. None of them brought it up to you till recently when the community started to sniff it out themselves. 1 5 Warrior of Dio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfPCFQfOnLg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Alex Posted June 1, 2019 Author Administrators Share Posted June 1, 2019 Just now, Buorhann said: Also, can you thoroughly investigate anybody else duplicating this exploit too or is this a hard thing to search for? I do believe it's a really hard exploit to pull off. I spent a lot of time this morning trying to do it consistently myself and was unsuccessful. I think it's pretty unlikely that anyone else was knowingly exploiting this bug. The spikes in the resource quantity tracking graphs basically match the generation of resources by the main culprit here perfectly. I don't see any suggestion that anyone else was abusing a bug like this, and going forward it will be very clear if someone finds a way to do it in the future. 2 3 Is there a bug? Report It | Not understanding game mechanics? Ask About It | Got a good idea? Suggest ItForums Rules | Game Link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Gaius Julius Caesar Posted June 1, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted June 1, 2019 As the leader of Nova, as someone who possibly did not question and just let the benefits be reaped, should Pooball not be punished? If he didn't know, it was because he did not WANT to know, he's the leader of Nova Riata, he should be held accountable and he punished along with the person who did the act. You can't tell me this didn't happen without his permission, he had to have known something was up, and he chose to not stop it. 1 20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Majima Goro Posted June 1, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted June 1, 2019 4 minutes ago, Alex said: further evidence they were intentionally abusing the bug for their own benefit. >Accepts millions of dollars in trades multiple times >Buys a city every 13th day from 17 to 27 >Buys off entire coal market >Buys off credits off market very fast Clearly common-sense isn't evidence enough 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 There's a lot of people upset about the lack of punishment in here. Why don't you all band together and roll them? I mean there's easily enough of you to do huge damage, and you get to war; it's win-win 1 1 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Dio Brando Posted June 1, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted June 1, 2019 By God, are you people going to take this? This only begins to address the problem, and falls flat on its face exactly a moment after. Nothing goes to an off-shore without you actually sending it. If I'm sending 500m to my offshore and getting $3bn back (example), then it should not be something I take at face value and move on. Question 1: how did he get enough money to buy that much shit? 16 minutes ago, Alex said: 12.2m Coal 11.8m Oil 10.1m Uranium 13.3m Iron 11.2m Bauxite 12m Lead 16.6m Gasoline 15.5m Munitions 18.3m Steel 15.3m Aluminum You list this amount. Let's say he paid for even half of that. That's still a frick ton of money to get that. More likely is both nations paid, where were they getting the money for that? From the bank is the most likely guess. A very significant portion of this happened within the span of one day. You don't think Pooball, say, watched the off-shore get filled to the brim with resources from nowhere? lmao. There is such a thing as plausible deniability, and I get your diplomatic approach @Alex, honestly, I may even appreciate it a bit. This decision wasn't easy, and it will be controversial as hell no matter how you slice it, but by god man, reasonable doubt was crossed far, far, far ago. 19 minutes ago, Alex said: and it will effectively serve as a sort of collective justice for their member nations to set things right. And their growth will already have occurred. I get you're still digging in, and you have my utmost gratitude for that, but this ain't it chief. Also, echo'ing what Buorhann said here: 2 minutes ago, Buorhann said: Also, I like to bring up the fact that it seems this was brought to your attention in the past. While, at the time, I can understand not really looking into it - but it does show that they knew exactly what they were doing and that they had plenty of time to do it. None of them brought it up to you till recently when the community started to sniff it out themselves. 16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James II Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Tarroc said: As the leader of Nova, as someone who possibly did not question and just let the benefits be reaped, should Pooball not be punished? If he didn't know, it was because he did not WANT to know, he's the leader of Nova Riata, he should be held accountable and he punished along with the person who did the act. You can't tell me this didn't happen without his permission, he had to have known something was up, and he chose to not stop it. I'm sorry I thought you were Nova. Shame on me. Edited June 1, 2019 by James II "Most successful new AA" - Samuel Bates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Filmore Posted June 1, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted June 1, 2019 6 minutes ago, Alex said: I don't disagree with you, but I don't really have any proof that anyone was knowingly exploiting a bug except for the guy who actually did exploit the bug, who has since deleted all of his nations (except the Dog1 account linked above.) I am trying to be fair to the average members of Nova Riata who very likely did benefit from this exploit but did so unknowingly. As I stated above, I do believe pooball and The North 14 were most intimately involved, but I still do not feel comfortable punishing them without further evidence they were intentionally abusing the bug for their own benefit. Some of their Gov members were buying multiple cities each month and, in some instances, multiple in a day. At the very least, they should lose at least a few cities from these ill gotten gains. 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Vack Posted June 1, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted June 1, 2019 There's no straightforward or clean way to resolve this, so I understand Alex's hesitation to do anything more punitive. However, fact remains that a bunch of people have benefited from the exploit. This cheat, either by design or by accident, may well have emboldened NR to hit Panth, and it's benefiting them against KETOG. Imo something more has to be done, deleting some NR cities or some of their bank equivalent to what they received from the cheat. 2 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick McScott Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 1 minute ago, Machiavelli said: There's a lot of people upset about the lack of punishment in here. Why don't you all band together and roll them? I mean there's easily enough of you to do huge damage, and you get to war; it's win-win I like this idea 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Edward I Posted June 1, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted June 1, 2019 Just now, Alex said: I don't disagree with you, but I don't really have any proof that anyone was knowingly exploiting a bug except for the guy who actually did exploit the bug, who has since deleted all of his nations (except the Dog1 account linked above.) I am trying to be fair to the average members of Nova Riata who very likely did benefit from this exploit but did so unknowingly. As I stated above, I do believe pooball and The North 14 were most intimately involved, but I still do not feel comfortable punishing them without further evidence they were intentionally abusing the bug for their own benefit. This is a terrible precedent to set because of the inherent moral hazard of tolerating bad behavior in the name of fairness. The integrity (not to mention the economic balance) of the game was corrupted by this exploit. Safeguarding both of those should be a higher priority than shielding possibly ignorant players from any consequences of others' bad behavior. If it is possible to delete the resources or the in-game assets they were used to purchase, it should be done. If it is possible to refund transactions completed by ignorant or innocent players, that should be done as well. Unless you believe the game is now entirely and permanently free of similar exploits, you're setting a precedent that the appearance of innocence or incidental benefit from cheating exonerates illicit in-game activity. 1 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Artifex Posted June 1, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted June 1, 2019 Of course, they are allowed to keep the fruits of their ill-gotten gains in the form of cities, projects, and undeserved military victories. It's plain to see to me that the gov members are either fully aware of what happened or are dumber than a bucket of bolts. Retribution must be dealt, and simply removing a few multis and the duped resources is simply not enough! The banning of the obviously guilty NR government, roll back of all NR nations, and subsequent lynching of the entire NR alliance even seems like getting off easy. 1 8 Love you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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