Jump to content
Alex

5/31/2019 - Resource Duplication Bug Fix

Recommended Posts

1. So basically an incomplete reversal of ill-gotten gains and

2. 0 punitive measures.

3. more faith jnto strangers than mothers would put in their kid.

4. I've re-attached an example of tiny amounts from march.

QED. thankfully i now make enough $ in-game to spend on my vip

Screenshot_20190410-020406.png

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Rossiya said:

 

Screenshot_20190410-020406.png

Something something hide your warchest something

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

that was 1 month ago and idk how to edit things from phone

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The only way any of you will be happy is for Alex to reset Nova to the date before the resources came in to play and then delete/ban the gov if i am reading most people right.

Well if you truly want to be fair, all those who got sweetheart deals, who knew about it yet still bought resources from Nova, still did trades from Nova should be punished in the same way, Hope @Alex can post a list of alliances who traded with Nova and got sweet deals and made huge gains, sure they might not have been the ones cheating, but then again not everyone in Nova was cheating, YES i believe the whole Nova gov should be reset to ten cities and have all projects removed, i agree all nova resources should be removed, but you all want to punish everyone in nova no matter what as they benefited from the issue, wonder if your alliance benefited.

Waiting for the massive down vote as you all know I'm right,  if you punish those who unknowingly benefited then surely the alliances who bought  really cheap resources from Nova who knew what had happened should then all be punished ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Elijah Mikaelson said:

Waiting for the massive down vote as you all know I'm right,  if you punish those who unknowingly benefited then surely the alliances who bought  really cheap resources from Nova who knew what had happened should then all be punished ?

Nobody is downvoting you because those that are vocal about this want the right thing done. Nobody wants to play a "broken" game, and without dealing with this in a proper manner it is broken. Economy is broken, Alex *thinks* he's fixed the bug. He says it was a hard exploit to pull off, but the sheer amount of resources done shows that's not true. He's made changes to the code to patch the exploit, however he's giving those who were part of the exploit or benefited from the exploit the greenlight to do it again as they've received very little punishment.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's the idea... of ... intent... you see if some bloke in Nova gets a grant for a city, and they think the money just comes from Gov because Gov's being nice... well 1) lucky guy or 2) (if it was worth it to do), partial gain reversal is in order...

So ... no... I'd bet most people don't care about whether the nova rank and file got a city or two. At least I don't.

Who I care about getting punitive measures are the people who it is blatantly obvious *for months* knew what was happening and purposefully scaled it up to the point to tilt the game in their favor, bigly (and screwed 1000s of small nation producers thanks to crappy rss prices)... and no, I personally don't want poo banned. I've talked with poo and he seems like a nice and normal person... but if exploiting a bug like this so willfully and for so long carriers the minimal repercussions that have been dealt... well, that isn't fair, no...

...

As for "punitive" measures -> Punitive measures are extra penalties applied on top as punishment for malicious acts, and as a disincentive for people trying to exploit the system in the future. (partially) Reversing gains does not qualify as punitive.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Alex said:

No, the majority of the exploit occurred on 4-28. It's actually very apparent in the total resource quantity graphs:

image.png

I don't really have a reason to believe that the growth which occurred before then was not legitimate. If there was a huge quantity of resources spawned before then, it would be apparent in the bank transaction records.

Its been happening since the market started taking a dump over a month before that.  And that happened to correspond with the NR sudden city growth of certain members.  I and I'm sure others were asking what was going on with Novas growth back as early as April 5th.

It seems you're being blinded by the incredible spike on 4.28.  I am guessing this was happening on a much smaller scale before the spike and possibly by other alliances. 

 I wish you would look into the earlier timing of the market crash when a wall of resources seemed to be in constant supply.

All of this is terrible for the integrity of the game so I hope you give this matter the serious attention it deserves.  It seems you're all too ready to dismiss anything that happened before the spike. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, Elijah Mikaelson said:

The only way any of you will be happy is for Alex to reset Nova to the date before the resources came in to play and then delete/ban the gov if i am reading most people right.

Well if you truly want to be fair, all those who got sweetheart deals, who knew about it yet still bought resources from Nova, still did trades from Nova should be punished in the same way, Hope @Alex can post a list of alliances who traded with Nova and got sweet deals and made huge gains, sure they might not have been the ones cheating, but then again not everyone in Nova was cheating, YES i believe the whole Nova gov should be reset to ten cities and have all projects removed, i agree all nova resources should be removed, but you all want to punish everyone in nova no matter what as they benefited from the issue, wonder if your alliance benefited.

Waiting for the massive down vote as you all know I'm right,  if you punish those who unknowingly benefited then surely the alliances who bought  really cheap resources from Nova who knew what had happened should then all be punished ?

Except those alliances didn't get an advantage. Nova sold to anyone with money, therefore anyone could have gotten hold of this 'advantage'. On the other hand not everyone could or would be trying to figure out theres a trade duplication glitch, nor would they necessarily use it. 

Not sure why you're so defensive of people who legitimately got an unfair advantage. Since we're throwing shade at random people here, let's note how Yakuza was a suspect of using this on some scale too, and how apparently Nova had used the excuse of "keno" to describe where their money was from, just as you have.

Now kindly go be a lunatic elsewhere. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Akuryo said:

Except those alliances didn't get an advantage. Nova sold to anyone with money, therefore anyone could have gotten hold of this 'advantage'. On the other hand not everyone could or would be trying to figure out theres a trade duplication glitch, nor would they necessarily use it. 

Not sure why you're so defensive of people who legitimately got an unfair advantage. Since we're throwing shade at random people here, let's note how Yakuza was a suspect of using this on some scale too, and how apparently Nova had used the excuse of "keno" to describe where their money was from, just as you have.

Now kindly go be a lunatic elsewhere. 

If this is true, then WHY have you not come to claim half of the loot like you did with Nova? really.jpg.055196548423cbe68b4f09e5dea489cb.jpg

Capture.PNG

Capture1.PNG?width=812&height=153

 

The thing is when I did win on Keno and this was a long time ago, i had taken screen shots of the win and shared with friends, I have nothing totally nothing to hide.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, Dwynn said:

Nobody is downvoting you because those that are vocal about this want the right thing done. Nobody wants to play a "broken" game, and without dealing with this in a proper manner it is broken. Economy is broken, Alex *thinks* he's fixed the bug. He says it was a hard exploit to pull off, but the sheer amount of resources done shows that's not true. He's made changes to the code to patch the exploit, however he's giving those who were part of the exploit or benefited from the exploit the greenlight to do it again as they've received very little punishment.

I want those who knowingly abused and profited from this banned or nation reset, but right now its a witch hunt on anyone in Nova and lets face it I bet most of those in Nova had no clue and or didn't even care. but this is not just limited to Nova for me, anyone who bought like 1m gas for 100m cash knew that was not right (these are not the numbers but just to prove the point) but if they did the trade anyway its due to the fact they knew they wont be punished for it.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know some general NR members who were also boosted cities, Infras, land and were also provided with more than required warchest. Though i wont name them since we’re friends. I think deleting general members their part of gain from illegal asset should be fair as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, Elijah Mikaelson said:

I want those who knowingly abused and profited from this banned or nation reset, but right now its a witch hunt on anyone in Nova and lets face it I bet most of those in Nova had no clue and or didn't even care. but this is not just limited to Nova for me, anyone who bought like 1m gas for 100m cash knew that was not right (these are not the numbers but just to prove the point) but if they did the trade anyway its due to the fact they knew they wont be punished for it.

 

I bought a couple of million Oil and Lead from a tS trader at a number between the buy-sell spread, at the time. Those goods where from NR, but I paid market price, praytell how I benefited any more than everyone else who was buying generally cheaper resources.

For the record the only transaction I conducted directly with NR was 1m Oil for 900m when the was 1000 a tonne. For a bulk purchase its hardly a groundbreaking discount. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Elijah Mikaelson said:

-didn't give a damn, snip-

Okay, first problem here, you clearly don't realize you're talking to @Akuryo, who'd sell their own son if the price was right, and then use the money to hire people to kidnap him back while still making a profit.  Aku still would have leaked it, and honestly everyone except you knows that.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Rosey Song said:

Okay, first problem here, you clearly don't realize you're talking to @Akuryo, who'd sell their own son if the price was right, and then use the money to hire people to kidnap him back while still making a profit.  Aku still would have leaked it, and honestly everyone except you knows that.

I feel like I should be offended someone would say this about me but it's just so incredibly accurate to reality it'd be ridiculous for me to be upset.

  • Like 3
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A precedent was set in 2015 which most current players agree that it was the right thing to do, yet Alex wants to set a new precedent where the offenders are not as heavily penalised as those in involved in 2015. Isn't this promoting and abetting potential cheaters to cheat?

 

Alex believes that the community is able to police and punish the offenders. However we want the offenders to be dealt with punishments that only an admin can confer. Furthermore, what the community can only do is to make them a pariah and try to ZI their members. But wouldn't this be unfair to those who do not cheat and have to fight them, incurring losses? Or is Alex feeling that Orbis has been pretty boring these days?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

https://politicsandwar.com/nation/id=33898 24 cities
https://politicsandwar.com/nation/id=15173118 cities
https://politicsandwar.com/nation/id=109719 23 cities
https://politicsandwar.com/nation/id=51519 20 cities
https://politicsandwar.com/nation/id=123082 23 cities
https://politicsandwar.com/nation/id=109464 21 cities
https://politicsandwar.com/nation/id=131661 22 cities
https://politicsandwar.com/nation/id=109847 21 cities
https://politicsandwar.com/nation/id=135129 18 cities

These are the nations that profited the most. Some of these got billions, some others less. Some, maybe I missed.

Majority of Nova nations are lowbies at like 10 cities. A lot of them are from the Federation, probably as clueless as the Nova lowbies. They're all gonna be part of this witch hunt for months because of these people that I linked above. And because Sheepy is not willing to uphold the 2015 precedent and ban directly responsible persons, and reset the rest to 10 cities at the very least.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Akuryo said:

I feel like I should be offended someone would say this about me but it's just so incredibly accurate to reality it'd be ridiculous for me to be upset.

😘 I know my friends

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I understand why Alex doesn't want to ban Pooball and others, namely, that we'd end up with a Radoje situation as Pooball attempts to ban evade with a bankhide dwarfing Radoje's stash. However, this situation is now significantly more sever than Terradoxia. Morgan et al never broke Politics and War; they never crashed the resource economy by 50-75%. Nova Riata, on the other hand, has generated between 80bn and 200 billion in value.

 

Let me put it another way. If I were really devoted to my alliance, and since I don't really care that much for the game, I wouldn't mind even being banned if the value granted to NR could be retained and players would retain the vast city boost they received from the exploit that has yet to be removed. And if there's no collective punishment, all you need to do is to get a friend who doesn't play the game to "suicide" for the exploit. The "reaction" to the exploit is barely a punishment, and is not sufficient to deter suicide cheating by non-players.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Meanwhile everyone who actually read the thread once again knows inst is an idiot because Nova's offshore is held in perma vm by Alex and the bank in NR itself was stolen.

 

  • Haha 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Akuryo said:

Meanwhile everyone who actually read the thread once again knows inst is an idiot because Nova's offshore is held in perma vm by Alex and the bank in NR itself was stolen.

 

Financial engineering is more sophisticated than financial regulation. Think, for instance, city for cash swaps, and so on so forth. We're fairly convinced that NR's been cheating longer than the time period (Alex can use Rollbacks on duplicated servers to examine older bank records), so at the very least, shouldn't Nova gov be rolled back to Knightfall?

 

Moreover, has Alex done a general check for the exploit? If NR has been exploiting since Knightfall (we're aware of the quintiple GA, which is a clear exploit), others are likely to be implicated. Given how crappy Pooball's security has been, I wouldn't be surprised if the exploit has been passed around underground.

 

Lastly, Alex maintains rollback capability, right? Shouldn't Alex spawn a third server after Test and Orbis, and go through the bank logs on the rollback? 45 days is not enough to understand the full extent of cheating.

 

In general, I think proper forensics on Nova's Infinite Furry RSS is going to take more than the 2 days Alex has done to rectify the RSS market (1-2 weeks). But I would hope that Alex takes the time to find out exactly how long this has been going on and present adequate deterrence punishment to prevent others from trying this sort of crap again.

Edited by Inst
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Alex

 

As a Macro Donor, I'd like to put in an appeal.


Is the Infinite Furry RSS Affair finished? For instance, the actions you've taken are an immediate band-aid to the distortion effected by Nova Riata. Unfortunately, I am aware of the limitations of your forensics, as well as to your current priority (patching the exploit). Will you be conducting a full investigation utilizing the back-ups in your rollbacks? And more importantly, is the response to the IFRSS affair considered finished? I hope not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Frawley said:

I bought a couple of million Oil and Lead from a tS trader at a number between the buy-sell spread, at the time. Those goods where from NR, but I paid market price, praytell how I benefited any more than everyone else who was buying generally cheaper resources.

For the record the only transaction I conducted directly with NR was 1m Oil for 900m when the was 1000 a tonne. For a bulk purchase its hardly a groundbreaking discount. 

how much did the Ts trader pay ?, point is if you paid a fair price then the tS trader I'm sure would have gotten them a lot cheaper as traders only work for profit, I believe more than just nova benefited, there are a lot in Nova who might not have known but all are being treated as they did the act themselves, some from what I have heard are being told to go kill themselves, that's a little much don't you think.

The point I am trying to make and from the seems of it very poorly sorry about that, the point is you can not just blame the whole alliance for the action of a few, yeah those who knew and such ban them don't care, but those who did not know just feels wrong to me that people are treating them like shit.

49 minutes ago, Inst said:

Financial engineering is more sophisticated than financial regulation. Think, for instance, city for cash swaps, and so on so forth. We're fairly convinced that NR's been cheating longer than the time period (Alex can use Rollbacks on duplicated servers to examine older bank records), so at the very least, shouldn't Nova gov be rolled back to Knightfall?

 

Moreover, has Alex done a general check for the exploit? If NR has been exploiting since Knightfall (we're aware of the quintiple GA, which is a clear exploit), others are likely to be implicated. Given how crappy Pooball's security has been, I wouldn't be surprised if the exploit has been passed around underground.

 

Lastly, Alex maintains rollback capability, right? Shouldn't Alex spawn a third server after Test and Orbis, and go through the bank logs on the rollback? 45 days is not enough to understand the full extent of cheating.

 

In general, I think proper forensics on Nova's Infinite Furry RSS is going to take more than the 2 days Alex has done to rectify the RSS market (1-2 weeks). But I would hope that Alex takes the time to find out exactly how long this has been going on and present adequate deterrence punishment to prevent others from trying this sort of crap again.

IF nova gov knowingly cheated they should not be rolled back, they should be reset to zero or banned.

 

2 hours ago, Theodosius said:

https://politicsandwar.com/nation/id=33898 24 cities
https://politicsandwar.com/nation/id=15173118 cities
https://politicsandwar.com/nation/id=109719 23 cities
https://politicsandwar.com/nation/id=51519 20 cities
https://politicsandwar.com/nation/id=123082 23 cities
https://politicsandwar.com/nation/id=109464 21 cities
https://politicsandwar.com/nation/id=131661 22 cities
https://politicsandwar.com/nation/id=109847 21 cities
https://politicsandwar.com/nation/id=135129 18 cities

These are the nations that profited the most. Some of these got billions, some others less. Some, maybe I missed.

Majority of Nova nations are lowbies at like 10 cities. A lot of them are from the Federation, probably as clueless as the Nova lowbies. They're all gonna be part of this witch hunt for months because of these people that I linked above. And because Sheepy is not willing to uphold the 2015 precedent and ban directly responsible persons, and reset the rest to 10 cities at the very least.

ok you put it a lot better than me, this has been my point from the start, loads of people who have no clue will be hunted for picking the wrong alliance nothing more

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Rosey Song said:

Okay, first problem here, you clearly don't realize you're talking to @Akuryo, who'd sell their own son if the price was right, and then use the money to hire people to kidnap him back while still making a profit.  Aku still would have leaked it, and honestly everyone except you knows that.

i knew he would still post it lol, that was not a shock to me lol damn he was willing to blackmail someone for resources, use them to grow his alliance and then post and act like he did no wrong lol.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use and the Guidelines of the game and community.