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At this time, I don't see any evidence that anyone "new" accessed @Leo the Great's account. Certainly, there is no evidence of any "hacking" (which isn't really possible, at least not directly through the game. I, obviously, cannot control who you tell your password to or give access to your account to of course.)

@George The face you make when you're found innocent

So in other words: George is owed an apology for the false accusations of him hacking Leo's account

From what I can tell, no new IP addresses / devices accessed @The Mad Titan's account. Whether it was themselves or through the web-app I don't know, but it wasn't like some new strange IP accessed the account and did the actions.

That's absolutely wrong and ridiculous, and here's why: There was not a security flaw with the website. A user chose to link to a city image from a sketchy website which was identified by anti-malware software as malicious. Mostly likely, it was malicious in that it attempted to infect the user's site with a trojan computer virus. I determined that there was no reason to believe that the user did this intentionally, and that most likely it was the result of looking up city images via Google Images or similar and copying a URL to an image from a sketchy Vietnamese website. We already have proof that the user who was "hacked" had given their credentials to a banking script that was configured to make bank withdrawals and kick inactive users. Sure, another player probably abused the script UI to get the "hacked" player's nation to do some things that weren't intended when the script was setup, but that's the fault of whoever made the script in the first place and the player who allowed their credentials to be used for it. There's no evidence to suggest that the player was infected by a trojan virus which was used to screw up their Politics & War nation. It's also entirely ridiculous to think that someone is creating trojan viruses and spreading them through the site to infect user's computers and get them to withdraw bank funds and kick users from the alliance. Like, completely absurd. If you were going to commit that much time and energy into "hacking" the game, why would you do it in this manner? Why wouldn't you just target my account and use it to generate whatever you wanted, or make a direct attack on the site? You're insane if you think that these things are related and someone went through this much effort to commit such meaningless, traceable, and reversible actions in-game. There is no breach of security. Your password is not compromised, and all passwords are stored using the latest hashing algorithms. Believe it or not, Politics & War is set up very securely, thanks to ss23 who has far more experience than I do on the matter. For example, the forum isn't even hosted on the same server as the game so that if there was ever even a forum software vulnerability, it wouldn't impact the game whatsoever. You are spreading panic and false rumors, either out of stupidity or plain malicious intent to hurt the games reputation through fearmongering.

Alright, Sorry for the late reply, i've been on a posting restriction for two days. Anyways getting right into it I did not have any back door whatsoever, before i left bk i had money in an account i never withdrew, BK neglected to remove it so i took the opportunity to withdraw it using the normal methods. Essentially just like anyone else in BK, I logged into my account, went to accounts, entered the amounts and withdrew. Not once did i “breach” security. BK did not remove my funds or block my account from accessing it, any old member of BK with an account can also do this (and have in the past). (same account ive always had btw) I never logged into Leos account, the backend banking system logs into Leos account via a server, this accusation i'm not going to spend much time on as Alex can check IPs. This argument is lolzy, by Leos standards we need to ban every BK member I never touched PnW or its backend system when pulling the money out, therefore Alex has no jurisdiction. He set a precedent of this forever ago so good try I was not going to respond to this but figured hell with it. The idea i hacked someone made me laugh so hard, I don't have that kind of ability, hell i've even had to ask some of these NPO people responding for help with some semi basic coding / database questions through time. On that note, grow up, it's clear I did not break any rules. It's quite clear this is to further your agenda on kicking players you don't like out of the game. I even returned the stuff after your misfortune. I've forwarded all needed proof and ss to Alex, he can make the call. Additionally @Alex please read my discord dms, they include personal info i wont be posting here

Lol at all of the BK and NPO drones trying to call you immoral for even suggesting something like this could have been a possibility. Shame on you BK. You even tried to get someone banned in this farce you were trying to pull.

1. To enforce this, it will require captchas on all withdrawals / deposits. I'm fine with that, but I'm sure in general that will be unpopular. 2. I agree - it's been a low-priority goal to create my own recruitment bot messaging system and allow alliances to pay for it through Credits as a service. It will support the game, be open to everyone (equal opportunity) and not be too OP or anything. 3. API v2 is going to be far more comprehensive and should eliminate the need for webscraping, I just haven't had time to complete it yet.

@Alex said he’s willing to have a in good faith discussion regarding the bots in game so it’s my beliefs while I actually do automate some things in game, we should cut down on what’s actually allowed 1. Bank moving bots, I think anything regarding banking should be a big nono and require capcha. Simply because to move the bank in the normal ways, it requires two people. The banker and the receiver (specifically for bank to bank). The nation has to make a new alliance and then the banker transfer. The idea the person holding the cash could not be present at all during the transfer is my big concern. This gives bigger alliances the clear advantage as smaller aas can’t do this. If the systems required the PnW account holder to log in and do it, it would be different however there is no way to enforce it 2. Mass messaging, honestly I think you should make a in game mechanic and charge a credit per month or something, same principle smaller alliances have difficulty getting ahold of these scripts. another idea is to captcha the messages and require people to use the good ole ads and alliance page to recruit people 3. In regards to banning these and your concerns, the truth is no ones hurt. The api provides everything most public tools use. The only people hurt are the ones who web scrape and are able to essentially spy on everyone, track transactions and other shit. This isn’t accessible to everyone and is really a clear advantage. So essentially the one ones hurt are getting a advantage taken away

Hello Orbis, Raoul Duke here, Co-Co-Leader of The Horsemen and verified compulsory beiger. Glad to be a part of this nonsense again and looking forward to blowing up at least 14 more imaginary tanks before I over-extend and lose my illusory air force. But What kind of quagmire is this? Both sides appear to believe they are fighting for the existence of the game. Both sides love giving orders and pretending they are General Patton. Both sides believe the other is the villain. Orbis has become Earth without the real smell of blood or the real pain of death (full disclosure: I've never died but I have seen it. Looks unpleasant.) As always, this could be settled with a virtual handshake and a mandatory "good game" but the powers that remain will continue to whip their followers into a frenzy and demand allegiance and compliance for some goal which is never really defined. This isn't WWIII. This is a group of boys (and maybe 4 chicks) who are using their thumbs or index fingers to do the same thing every politician on the actual earth does: Manipulate, spin and control. Chill out you savages. Roquentin isn't the Great Satan. Adrienne isn't the harbinger of the apocalypse. We're all just people pretending to blow each other up for stats and pride. Alright I have to go air strike UPN for some reason.

For the record, BK isnt causing the blockade, I have been blockading him well before they declared. That being said, the intent here is obviously slot filling, just like what the North Point is doing with the beige crap is also slot filling in my opinion.

Any bot that automates in-game actions (such as war declarations, bank transfers, baseball etc.) should be prohibited. Any script that accumulates and/or parses data from the game should be fine. A hard line on this is probably necessary to prevent rules being bent.

Maybe more in the future

This is a problem that i've addressed for years. The Wiki is and always will be neutral ground. Bias is something that isn't tolerated since the Wiki is mean't to be history based on facts (Nation-related roleplay is allowed). If anyone sees bias in the wiki especially wars should be reported by shooting me a message on the forums or someone who has the same tag as me and we will review it. We're here for a reason.

I think we can all agree that proper and objective documentation of PnW history is a pursuit that is right. The wiki isn't or at least shouldn't be a vehicle for propaganda, agendas, or excessive bias. As someone who has been interested in natsim history and developments for a long time, seeing a wiki page like this: https://politicsandwar.fandom.com/wiki/Great_Leak_War is very concerning. Forcing the name of the global so soon isn't a great thing to do, especially assigning such an inflammatory name such as, "The Fash Bash Festival." Describing any side of the war in any positive or negative light is a sign of bias and strays from objectivity. Describing the sides as"The long antiquated empires" and "scrappy young rebellions" is an example of this. Needless and propagandist conjecture such as, "Hoping to take the power vacuum that was held by the now-defunct coalitions," also has no place on the wiki, nor does the complete redaction or corruption of facts and events, many of which are completely missing from the linked page. I'm no fool and realize the identity of those who have done this. They are those who have the self proclaimed objective of destroying this game and forcing many off it, but in my honest opinion, corrupting the objective documentation and history of anything is an act most foul and natsims deserve better than that. It used to be that documentation on the wiki on globals was generally neutral and objective, and I do not want to see any group strong arm their propaganda into any article, at least not to this degree.

What an absurd claim to make. What the hell are you smoking that Orbis are now the bad people and you're waging a war for your own survival suddenly? The current attitude towards NPO and Col B is a creation of your own (and your allies) design. We've watched you sit there and keep a major percentage of the game at war for 8+ months while you simultaneously attacked and beat down any one of your 'allies' that had enough of your never-ending war and wanted a return to peace for their members. Plus, you had an ENTIRE sphere sitting there that you signed a 6 month NAP with and then you basically ignored FA wise even after the logs leaked of you trashing plenty of us. So, from the moment you entered? Laughable. You've spent the past 8 months carrying out actions that have lead to where we stand now. This is your own fault.

I don't think the recruitment/messaging bots should be nerfed as they are widely used by a number of alliances and there are open source recruiting bots that have been made available by some alliances/individuals so altogether, it's one of the easiest bots to obtain for your alliance from my understanding. It doesn't play the game for you like other actions do, it's just messaging. If something plays the actual game for you though, that's an issue.

I think any bots that perform in-game actions should be against the rules, whether that's moving banks, trading, sending out recruitment messages, declaring wars, attacking, etc. Notification bots are ok I suppose.

What everyone fails to realize is that although there is a villain, that villain is not Roquentin. It's also not Leo, it's not Sphinx, it's not Abbas, it's not Keegoz, it's not Adrienne, it's not Thrax, it's not Kev, and it's not Partisan. The real villain all along as been me, and you all have been duped.

I'm not about to read 12 pages of this mess, so I'll just ask: on the scale of Unacceptable Behavior, where does pretending that your account was broken into to try to get the game rolled back and someone banned, rank?

Since everyone wants to bring up our name, I should note that unlike you lot we don't have aircraft and a history of attrition-based pull down strategies that we're mysteriously not using now. We do on the other hand have a history of raiding alot, which is what we're doing since the situation we're in isn't really tennable for anything else. I'm sorry that you expected to attack an aggressive, raider like alliance and have them not start raiding everything. Post a Pikachu face next time.

Just confirmed both ways - when Blockaded, funds are not disbursed and instead deleted forever. When not Blockaded, they are disbursed automatically as intended.

Unfortunately, I didn't make it in time to shake hands with y'all on the battlefield. I do respect your tenacity and making it this far into that war. Not bad for a bunch a heretics.

I will say now, however, that this is P&W's history we're talking about. Which may not seem all that important without a particular attachment to it, but for a game like P&W that's been here for over 6 years, I can assure you that it is taken quite seriously. Situations like edit wars, explicit bias, and general vandalism often result in editing suspension or permanent ban.

Howdy folks! (for reference, to those newer to P&W or unfamiliar with the wiki, I am Kurdanak - a wiki Admin/Bureaucrat) The neutrality of the wiki is, indeed, important - as is precedent - and we'll certainly maintain that. Unfortunately, I have a lot going on IRL at the moment so I can't look into everything here (in sufficient detail) at this exact moment, but I'll catch up and give my thoughts ASAP.

Anyone but him = faked a report, Alex will decide what's the best thing to do More players using the same account = 100% ban More people using the same account it's a strange situation, I think it's ok if multiple people play with the same account without having another account

Fixed

Jury is still out on that one, none of us have seen Roq and Satan in the same room after all.

No one should be giving out their API key in the first place, which is my point. If you give your API key to someone else, that's your fault.

Wait you mean @The Mad Titan was lying about his nation being hacked? Well colour me surprised. This definitely isn’t the first time he’s been caught out.

The script is playing his nation for him. It is loggin onto his account and doing an action that only alliance government has the power to do and as you probably experienced, it's easy to exploit. You have no moral high ground to stand on here to justify why this is a perfectly ok thing to utilized. I don't care if Alex has ok'd them in the past. I think he needs to outlaw them going forward. Make the 100/100 alliances actually have to put in effort if they want to run their alliances in such a controlling way. Don't allow them to automate their whole banking system to a point where the bankers don't even need to log on anymore. That is just ridiculous.

After consulting with people in BK and around Orbis, I do believe there is a suspicion that an account or bot got compromised by another individual in this community. After seeing BK remove more than half of its members (with more still dropping), I think it's necessary to point out that this sort of action will not be tolerated by any regardless of Coalition. I really hate what BK does and says, but genuinely best of luck in bringing your community back to order and resolving this situation. If it is a hack, maybe @Alex can intervene. No one deserves to have their alliance nor community destroyed. I will personally do everything in my power to bring any party involved to justice for actions that should never occur in Orbis. These attacks are despicable. This is a game, and we're supposed to have fun and perhaps engage in some politics. Even if some can't understand that, we should never make it personal or threaten a community. Sorry, to go on this tirade, but I'm pretty pissed off right now about this situation. At the moment, TKR v BK is irrelevant. BK got attacked in an unjustifiable and unacceptable manner. Whoever is doing this, you just made things so much worse for everyone involved. tl;dr: frick whoever did this. Note that I've come to these conclusions myself.

Any time a nation is at war, they can declare 'surrender'. In that mode, they cannot attack, and the first attack against them in every war instantly ends it with the current victory/defeat system. While in 'surrender', the nation cannot declare more wars nor can wars be declared against them, and once their current wars end they get exactly one week of security before their safety expires. Surrender mode can only be invoked again after a full month passes. And there you go, a safety mode that leaves you in the meatgrinder for a solid month before you get a single rebuild. Which fully allows you to get into the fight, so you still can't be fully destroyed. Nobody's unhappy, unless they're disingenuous toxic !@#$ that just want mechanics that enable them to fully sit on their opponents forever with no possibility of rebuilding ever.

Remarkable. You are absolutely remarkable. I'll just wish you luck again and be rid of you.

Nation Link: https://politicsandwar.com/nation/id=183140 Ruler Name: Aero Nature of Violation: War slot filling https://politicsandwar.com/nation/war/timeline/war=587602 After being reported for the spam threads, Aero has taken it upon himself to declare a false war against a coalition member, BK. The actions involved in the war were two ground attacks that resulted in utter failures, despite the receiver having three times as many soldiers and Aero themselves having an air advantage. Screenshots will be provided shortly of their military units before any drastic changes are made. This is a blatant attempt at filling a war slot. EDIT: First Nation is Aero’s, second is the BK guy. Aero knew full well what he was doing when he suicided his ground forces into the BK guy. He just wanted to minimise the damage done to both parties just to tick off the war activity box to hide their attempts of him filling someone else’s war slot.

In no universe would 351k soldiers get a pyrrhic victory against 93k soldiers, this is even giving the benefit of the doubt that the Acadia nation did not send in tanks to preserve gas and munitions. Clearly the Acadia nation did not use all their soldiers in the ground attack in an attempt to do minimal damage against the BK nation. Had the Acadia nation not used munitions, there would have been more soldier casualties. I also suspect they are not running low on munitions seeing that they are operating their entire airforce in their offensive wars.

Maybe it was because Immortals were getting their ass handed to them round 1? (not a slight against them, lots of love and respect) Maybe you don’t understand how global wars work. If you join a war you can’t expect to get counters for every war declared upon you, regardless of treaties. It sounds like you expected this to be an easy war and when it turned out you were going to take some heavy damage you left. Regardless, you should have given Immortals notice and I think not doing so is pretty shitty I mean, you saw how heavy your side was getting hit, right?

Given recent events and the reveal of just how deep automation, third party software, and outright botting go within certain elements of the community, I would like to bring up the discussion of whether automation should be allowed and to what degree. It seems to me that utilizing third party software to execute actions within a game (such as automated banking or member management) is the traditional definition of unethical botting. No one is at the keyboard of the account in-use. This then conveys unfair advantage to that person or persons that other people simply do not have access to. A quick example of how quickly something as small as auto-banking could spiral into affecting the entire game: Roberts and Tiberius are at war. Roberts runs out of gasoline, and now has to wait several hours for a government member to come online and send him gasoline from the alliance bank. During this time, Roberts cannot execute attacks with either tanks or planes. Tiberius is also out of gas, fortunately he can automatically withdraw it via software even though his alliance government is also asleep. Tiberius can then execute his attacks immediately and wins the war. Multiply this scenario out within a prolonged global war, now you have entire alliances gaining an advantage in war. Winning wars because they have automated scripts running for them. It doesn't take a genius to see how this impacts the meta and politics of the game. Suddenly we're playing Politics and Bots.

The blockade was from this war: https://politicsandwar.com/nation/war/timeline/war=587222 Your report checks out, this naval battle should have lifted the blockade https://politicsandwar.com/nation/war/timeline/war=588158 It's unclear at this point why this didn't happen automatically, but I've manually lifted the blockade now. Thank you for letting me know.

Remove Beige is up there with Add Subs for worst, most frequent suggestion.

If you publicly accuse someone then you have the duty to the public to show public proof. Your alliance could have made a private accusation to Alex in private messages or on discord but decided to go public. Y'all went for a public accusation therefore you have the responsibility to provide proof to the public.

?????

Television static was a fact of life for decades, until TVs went digital. If it was seizure inducing, dead air on television wouldn't have shown static for as long as it did - the government would've stepped in and regulated it.

frick off with the victim blaming shit. (if) leo got hacked it isnt his fault this happened and saying “well bk is shit anyways so they deserve it” is really fricked. this kind of OOC fricking with people’s nations isnt cute or fun and we should all be standing by each other condemning this kind of behavior

We don't have any proof one way or the other that this was a hack/exploit. Can we please stop chucking out conspiracy theories and stating them as if they are facts until we have some evidence?

Considering I know that Colo B wanted to put a bunch of terms on CoS, including stuff like banning them from joining certain alliances or even suggestions of Infra caps, the fact they got let off with a white peace is very telling of your current predicament, Colo B. All the best CoS, was a pleasure fighting you,