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At this time, I don't see any evidence that anyone "new" accessed @Leo the Great's account. Certainly, there is no evidence of any "hacking" (which isn't really possible, at least not directly through the game. I, obviously, cannot control who you tell your password to or give access to your account to of course.)

@George The face you make when you're found innocent

So in other words: George is owed an apology for the false accusations of him hacking Leo's account

From what I can tell, no new IP addresses / devices accessed @The Mad Titan's account. Whether it was themselves or through the web-app I don't know, but it wasn't like some new strange IP accessed the account and did the actions.

That's absolutely wrong and ridiculous, and here's why: There was not a security flaw with the website. A user chose to link to a city image from a sketchy website which was identified by anti-malware software as malicious. Mostly likely, it was malicious in that it attempted to infect the user's site with a trojan computer virus. I determined that there was no reason to believe that the user did this intentionally, and that most likely it was the result of looking up city images via Google Images or similar and copying a URL to an image from a sketchy Vietnamese website. We already have proof that the user who was "hacked" had given their credentials to a banking script that was configured to make bank withdrawals and kick inactive users. Sure, another player probably abused the script UI to get the "hacked" player's nation to do some things that weren't intended when the script was setup, but that's the fault of whoever made the script in the first place and the player who allowed their credentials to be used for it. There's no evidence to suggest that the player was infected by a trojan virus which was used to screw up their Politics & War nation. It's also entirely ridiculous to think that someone is creating trojan viruses and spreading them through the site to infect user's computers and get them to withdraw bank funds and kick users from the alliance. Like, completely absurd. If you were going to commit that much time and energy into "hacking" the game, why would you do it in this manner? Why wouldn't you just target my account and use it to generate whatever you wanted, or make a direct attack on the site? You're insane if you think that these things are related and someone went through this much effort to commit such meaningless, traceable, and reversible actions in-game. There is no breach of security. Your password is not compromised, and all passwords are stored using the latest hashing algorithms. Believe it or not, Politics & War is set up very securely, thanks to ss23 who has far more experience than I do on the matter. For example, the forum isn't even hosted on the same server as the game so that if there was ever even a forum software vulnerability, it wouldn't impact the game whatsoever. You are spreading panic and false rumors, either out of stupidity or plain malicious intent to hurt the games reputation through fearmongering.

Alright, Sorry for the late reply, i've been on a posting restriction for two days. Anyways getting right into it I did not have any back door whatsoever, before i left bk i had money in an account i never withdrew, BK neglected to remove it so i took the opportunity to withdraw it using the normal methods. Essentially just like anyone else in BK, I logged into my account, went to accounts, entered the amounts and withdrew. Not once did i “breach” security. BK did not remove my funds or block my account from accessing it, any old member of BK with an account can also do this (and have in the past). (same account ive always had btw) I never logged into Leos account, the backend banking system logs into Leos account via a server, this accusation i'm not going to spend much time on as Alex can check IPs. This argument is lolzy, by Leos standards we need to ban every BK member I never touched PnW or its backend system when pulling the money out, therefore Alex has no jurisdiction. He set a precedent of this forever ago so good try I was not going to respond to this but figured hell with it. The idea i hacked someone made me laugh so hard, I don't have that kind of ability, hell i've even had to ask some of these NPO people responding for help with some semi basic coding / database questions through time. On that note, grow up, it's clear I did not break any rules. It's quite clear this is to further your agenda on kicking players you don't like out of the game. I even returned the stuff after your misfortune. I've forwarded all needed proof and ss to Alex, he can make the call. Additionally @Alex please read my discord dms, they include personal info i wont be posting here

Lol at all of the BK and NPO drones trying to call you immoral for even suggesting something like this could have been a possibility. Shame on you BK. You even tried to get someone banned in this farce you were trying to pull.

1. To enforce this, it will require captchas on all withdrawals / deposits. I'm fine with that, but I'm sure in general that will be unpopular. 2. I agree - it's been a low-priority goal to create my own recruitment bot messaging system and allow alliances to pay for it through Credits as a service. It will support the game, be open to everyone (equal opportunity) and not be too OP or anything. 3. API v2 is going to be far more comprehensive and should eliminate the need for webscraping, I just haven't had time to complete it yet.

@Alex said he’s willing to have a in good faith discussion regarding the bots in game so it’s my beliefs while I actually do automate some things in game, we should cut down on what’s actually allowed 1. Bank moving bots, I think anything regarding banking should be a big nono and require capcha. Simply because to move the bank in the normal ways, it requires two people. The banker and the receiver (specifically for bank to bank). The nation has to make a new alliance and then the banker transfer. The idea the person holding the cash could not be present at all during the transfer is my big concern. This gives bigger alliances the clear advantage as smaller aas can’t do this. If the systems required the PnW account holder to log in and do it, it would be different however there is no way to enforce it 2. Mass messaging, honestly I think you should make a in game mechanic and charge a credit per month or something, same principle smaller alliances have difficulty getting ahold of these scripts. another idea is to captcha the messages and require people to use the good ole ads and alliance page to recruit people 3. In regards to banning these and your concerns, the truth is no ones hurt. The api provides everything most public tools use. The only people hurt are the ones who web scrape and are able to essentially spy on everyone, track transactions and other shit. This isn’t accessible to everyone and is really a clear advantage. So essentially the one ones hurt are getting a advantage taken away

Hello Orbis, Raoul Duke here, Co-Co-Leader of The Horsemen and verified compulsory beiger. Glad to be a part of this nonsense again and looking forward to blowing up at least 14 more imaginary tanks before I over-extend and lose my illusory air force. But What kind of quagmire is this? Both sides appear to believe they are fighting for the existence of the game. Both sides love giving orders and pretending they are General Patton. Both sides believe the other is the villain. Orbis has become Earth without the real smell of blood or the real pain of death (full disclosure: I've never died but I have seen it. Looks unpleasant.) As always, this could be settled with a virtual handshake and a mandatory "good game" but the powers that remain will continue to whip their followers into a frenzy and demand allegiance and compliance for some goal which is never really defined. This isn't WWIII. This is a group of boys (and maybe 4 chicks) who are using their thumbs or index fingers to do the same thing every politician on the actual earth does: Manipulate, spin and control. Chill out you savages. Roquentin isn't the Great Satan. Adrienne isn't the harbinger of the apocalypse. We're all just people pretending to blow each other up for stats and pride. Alright I have to go air strike UPN for some reason.

For the record, BK isnt causing the blockade, I have been blockading him well before they declared. That being said, the intent here is obviously slot filling, just like what the North Point is doing with the beige crap is also slot filling in my opinion.

Any bot that automates in-game actions (such as war declarations, bank transfers, baseball etc.) should be prohibited. Any script that accumulates and/or parses data from the game should be fine. A hard line on this is probably necessary to prevent rules being bent.

Maybe more in the future

This is a problem that i've addressed for years. The Wiki is and always will be neutral ground. Bias is something that isn't tolerated since the Wiki is mean't to be history based on facts (Nation-related roleplay is allowed). If anyone sees bias in the wiki especially wars should be reported by shooting me a message on the forums or someone who has the same tag as me and we will review it. We're here for a reason.

I think we can all agree that proper and objective documentation of PnW history is a pursuit that is right. The wiki isn't or at least shouldn't be a vehicle for propaganda, agendas, or excessive bias. As someone who has been interested in natsim history and developments for a long time, seeing a wiki page like this: https://politicsandwar.fandom.com/wiki/Great_Leak_War is very concerning. Forcing the name of the global so soon isn't a great thing to do, especially assigning such an inflammatory name such as, "The Fash Bash Festival." Describing any side of the war in any positive or negative light is a sign of bias and strays from objectivity. Describing the sides as"The long antiquated empires" and "scrappy young rebellions" is an example of this. Needless and propagandist conjecture such as, "Hoping to take the power vacuum that was held by the now-defunct coalitions," also has no place on the wiki, nor does the complete redaction or corruption of facts and events, many of which are completely missing from the linked page. I'm no fool and realize the identity of those who have done this. They are those who have the self proclaimed objective of destroying this game and forcing many off it, but in my honest opinion, corrupting the objective documentation and history of anything is an act most foul and natsims deserve better than that. It used to be that documentation on the wiki on globals was generally neutral and objective, and I do not want to see any group strong arm their propaganda into any article, at least not to this degree.

What an absurd claim to make. What the hell are you smoking that Orbis are now the bad people and you're waging a war for your own survival suddenly? The current attitude towards NPO and Col B is a creation of your own (and your allies) design. We've watched you sit there and keep a major percentage of the game at war for 8+ months while you simultaneously attacked and beat down any one of your 'allies' that had enough of your never-ending war and wanted a return to peace for their members. Plus, you had an ENTIRE sphere sitting there that you signed a 6 month NAP with and then you basically ignored FA wise even after the logs leaked of you trashing plenty of us. So, from the moment you entered? Laughable. You've spent the past 8 months carrying out actions that have lead to where we stand now. This is your own fault.

I don't think the recruitment/messaging bots should be nerfed as they are widely used by a number of alliances and there are open source recruiting bots that have been made available by some alliances/individuals so altogether, it's one of the easiest bots to obtain for your alliance from my understanding. It doesn't play the game for you like other actions do, it's just messaging. If something plays the actual game for you though, that's an issue.

I think any bots that perform in-game actions should be against the rules, whether that's moving banks, trading, sending out recruitment messages, declaring wars, attacking, etc. Notification bots are ok I suppose.

What everyone fails to realize is that although there is a villain, that villain is not Roquentin. It's also not Leo, it's not Sphinx, it's not Abbas, it's not Keegoz, it's not Adrienne, it's not Thrax, it's not Kev, and it's not Partisan. The real villain all along as been me, and you all have been duped.

I'm not about to read 12 pages of this mess, so I'll just ask: on the scale of Unacceptable Behavior, where does pretending that your account was broken into to try to get the game rolled back and someone banned, rank?

Since everyone wants to bring up our name, I should note that unlike you lot we don't have aircraft and a history of attrition-based pull down strategies that we're mysteriously not using now. We do on the other hand have a history of raiding alot, which is what we're doing since the situation we're in isn't really tennable for anything else. I'm sorry that you expected to attack an aggressive, raider like alliance and have them not start raiding everything. Post a Pikachu face next time.

Just confirmed both ways - when Blockaded, funds are not disbursed and instead deleted forever. When not Blockaded, they are disbursed automatically as intended.

Unfortunately, I didn't make it in time to shake hands with y'all on the battlefield. I do respect your tenacity and making it this far into that war. Not bad for a bunch a heretics.

I will say now, however, that this is P&W's history we're talking about. Which may not seem all that important without a particular attachment to it, but for a game like P&W that's been here for over 6 years, I can assure you that it is taken quite seriously. Situations like edit wars, explicit bias, and general vandalism often result in editing suspension or permanent ban.

Howdy folks! (for reference, to those newer to P&W or unfamiliar with the wiki, I am Kurdanak - a wiki Admin/Bureaucrat) The neutrality of the wiki is, indeed, important - as is precedent - and we'll certainly maintain that. Unfortunately, I have a lot going on IRL at the moment so I can't look into everything here (in sufficient detail) at this exact moment, but I'll catch up and give my thoughts ASAP.

Anyone but him = faked a report, Alex will decide what's the best thing to do More players using the same account = 100% ban More people using the same account it's a strange situation, I think it's ok if multiple people play with the same account without having another account

Fixed

Jury is still out on that one, none of us have seen Roq and Satan in the same room after all.

No one should be giving out their API key in the first place, which is my point. If you give your API key to someone else, that's your fault.

Wait you mean @The Mad Titan was lying about his nation being hacked? Well colour me surprised. This definitely isn’t the first time he’s been caught out.

The script is playing his nation for him. It is loggin onto his account and doing an action that only alliance government has the power to do and as you probably experienced, it's easy to exploit. You have no moral high ground to stand on here to justify why this is a perfectly ok thing to utilized. I don't care if Alex has ok'd them in the past. I think he needs to outlaw them going forward. Make the 100/100 alliances actually have to put in effort if they want to run their alliances in such a controlling way. Don't allow them to automate their whole banking system to a point where the bankers don't even need to log on anymore. That is just ridiculous.

Purge war slot fillers everywhere if you ask me, but I don't know anything about that whole situation so I won't comment but perhaps you should bring it up to moderation. However this BK/Acadia shit is obvious cheating, no simple way to say it.

Mind you, this would be in conjunction with a number of other changes to the war system I have in mind: Assuming beige is removed from the game, I don't see why a nation couldn't "surrender" in any active war and have it automatically finish the war as if they lost (do the % infra damage and loot.) I suppose it might be an issue if you transferred all your money/rss away and then did a "surrender" and then received them back, but presuming there was some way to prevent that I don't have a problem with giving nations the option to end a war they expect to lose early. I know that's not what you proposed, but I want to add it to the discussion. Part of what I have in mind for changing the war system would be 1/3 rebuilds daily on all military units (not missiles/nukes/spies) such that rebuilding to 2/3 of your total military force is possible in any given double-buy. I think that eliminates the problem with needing time to rebuild and not getting it without beige.

You successfully gathered intelligence about America. Your spies discovered that America has 9 spies, $8,822,775.65, 0.00 coal, 1,489.50 oil, 1,807.50 uranium, 1,046.25 lead, 904.85 iron, 218.52 bauxite, 4,807.36 gasoline, 3,620.57 munitions, 20,378.42 steel, 5,006.23 aluminum, and 9,760.18 food. Your agents were able to operate undetected. The operation cost you $210,000.00 and 0 of your spies were captured and executed. At the time of posting, this nation can create 66 ships per day, so with an effective double buy he can free himself from his blockades. 20k steel is plenty enough to afford it. Following screenshot of the Acadia nation's current military improvements.

Hello. I don't think we've spoken before. If you feel like you werent helped properly then I do apologize on behalf of tS. The war was (and is) at a critical stage and we did not have the manpower free to assist on all fronts. With that said, I thank you for entering and genuinely wish you luck with the rebuild. No hard feelings. Perhaps we can discuss your disappointment with coalition a more in depth on discord?

The "micro" alliance caused an explosion of a huge emotional bomb made of toxic waste. lmao

A skim through Interstellar's alliance page will reveal that they're very much a micro, with micro ideals. I think it's possible Interstellar thought they would be entering an easy war where they could kick back, throw some punches, earn a bruise or two, and at the end of the war say they did something worthwhile. I think when their leadership learned that that wouldn't happen, they bailed. A non-micro would just not enter at all (no obligation to enter, war would be very costly), or would stay in longer (looks bad to peace out so early, would be a slight to their war allies). Peacing out after 4 days in these circumstances is a sign of inexperience or incompetence. I can't think of any other reason why Interstellar did what they did besides 'just micro things'.

Recruitment bots are literally the only reliable way of basically any alliance not drawing off a 30k+ person forum to recruit. New members rarely look at the forums or find the recruitment section, and the in-game "suggested alliances to join" or whatever it's called literally markets dead micros with 4 people and no actives as equivalent to TKR or NPO which is absurd. An in-game replacement should be made if their existence is an issue, because it really just isn't effective to recruit any other way with anything else available.

2 or 3? For having 500 nukes? Seems not worth the prize. Then again, nobody is going to build 500 nukes. That's insane. Now onwards to 1000.

Well, based on my understanding of the situation (I'm catching up here) it's entirely possible someone else triggered the actions through some sort of 3rd party script, but no one else logged into @Leo the Great's nation or did anything rule-breaking, to my knowledge. For some clarification on this: Automated trading bots/scripts are not allowed. The "bot" we're discussing here (BK's bank management system) is not what I would consider "automated" because, to my knowledge, it's all requires manual inputs. I.E., users are going through Discord to trigger deposits/withdrawals instead of directly through the site. My general (not exact) rule is that tools which make the game more convenient to use are okay (Discord bots with helpful functionality, mass-messaging recruitment scripts) but bots/script that actually automate behavior are not (i.e. a bot that would monitor all alliance wars and automatically transfer alliance bank balances immediately prior to any looting events.) So, there are two separate discussions going on here in my opinion: first, whether or not what happened here was "wrong" or illegal per the game rules. To my understanding, no, no rules were broken. I don't enforce the rules on how BK's bot works, and if they made a system that could be so easily manipulated into letting someone withdraw their whole bank, remove members from their alliance, etc. that's their fault and the person who did it is not to blame, assuming they're not in violation of any other rules. From the access records, I don't see any evidence that anyone new accessed @Leo the Great's nation, which means either he made all the transactions/removals himself, or it was done on his behalf by some script that he had given permission to do those things from his account. The other discussion is about whether bots like BK's banking bot should be allowed. I'm more than happy to have a good-faith debate on the limits on what should and should not be allowed, but I don't know that that's topical here. The BK banking thing was already approved by me, per my understanding of how it works and my general rules (above) on what I do and don't allow in terms of "bots."

But what if they are?

Some of our new friends may not be accustomed to our culture of accepting that the wiki is a neutral/objective ground and not to be so blatantly biased and propagandized. I just want to preserve PnW history more than anything; troll on the forums all you want, attack my nation, call me names, I don't care, but I love viewing and reading natsim history, and the thought of looking back ten years from now only to see subjectivity running amok in what should be a place of objectivity just tears me up. Please, if one thing is spared in this crusade of destruction, let it be the wiki.

I’m sure calling alliances weak and pathetic will get them to help you again next time

We watched our allies become the monster they claimed they were trying to fight. We watched them consistently refuse to act in good faith. We burned for people who have consistently proven they were not worthy. We have continued to watch them as they turned this into a fight for the very soul of Orbis.

I didn't do ground attacks because I made airstrikes that destroyed 33 ships on one and put a blockade on the other. I'm using all my MAPs and haven't been holding back. Just because I want to save my soldiers for you doesn't mean I'm slot filling. Timelines, just in case you want them, Alex, but seriously, this is pretty ridiculous. https://politicsandwar.com/nation/war/timeline/war=586286 https://politicsandwar.com/nation/war/timeline/war=586287

Isn’t account sharing against the TOS? If you give your password to another player, doesn’t that fall into account sharing?