Rose's Surrender

[Beatrix]

Assuming NPO members will build to 800 infra on average in a few days of peace, it's really cheap infra.

 

total_cities = 820

total_infra = 656000

average_infra = 800

 

city_income = 123,794

total_income = city_income * total_cities => 820*123,794 = 101511080 or ~101.5m

 

tax_rate = 50%, income_tax = ~50m

It costs 477,067 to upgrade from 800->900

 

50,000,000/477,067 = ~104, which means you can get 104 cities to 900 infra on day 1. 

In about a week you could get all your members to 900 infra, in which your tax will be about ~60m instead of ~50m.

 

Repeat the process for one more week, and you can get 1k infra within a total of two weeks.

/me shrug

 

 

It's 4am and I haven't slept in 30hrs, so maybe I missed something, but it should take about a month or so for NPO to completely rebuild itself(yes, up to 1500 infra) if they do it right.

[Buorhann]

Mensa raided us en masse a month after we founded

 

lol?

[Ayayay]

I'll start by saying that there's nothing objectively wrong with this. Choose whatever you want, for whatever reason you want.

 

But once you throw pragmatism out the window for "they weren't polite to us so let's not do what we think is actually best for us", you open the door to a bunch of other sht. You end up corrupting your process of rational decision making, and mostly hurt yourselves in the process. That's just my opinion though.

Pangui neglected to mention we actually did agree to peace(only fake tc and guardian were left to accept iirc). A day later BK reneged and decided to hold us hostage to get at NPO. A couple days after that they demanded we pay double the original amount to cover for NPO and got pissy when we refused. The worst part is they wanted us to pay in 30 days an amount we quite literally could not afford in an obviously transparent attempt to have an excuse to hit us again in a month. 

 

Like, I get they want to kill us and all, but they could try to be a tad bit less transparent about it.

[Sisyphus]

lol?

Maybe they're getting their Vanguard members confused with that one Mensa raider that hit them once.

[Spaceman Thrax]

Arrgh raided us a few months later and told us they were paid for the hit by your sphere

 

Proof please. I'm sure if you want to hold a grudge for this long and use it as part of a justification for waging an offensive war on BK, you surely must have something more than someone in the alliance that raided you saying so. Particularly when I know other people in Arrgh said who paid was actually in your sphere.   

[Kemal Ergenekon]

Mensa raided us en masse a month after we founded

Arrgh raided us a few months later and told us they were paid for the hit by your sphere

 

When did Mensa raid you en masse? The only en masse raid we had was against Vanguard.

 

We never paid Arrgh, it was a lie fabricated by Steve. I called him out on it several times, and he chose silence.

[Buorhann]

Pretty sure Mensa was too high in score to raid NPO en-masse after your forming.  Heck, a lot of you were still too low in score at the start of this war.

[Foltest]

Pangui neglected to mention we actually did agree to peace(only fake tc and guardian were left to accept iirc). A day later BK reneged and decided to hold us hostage to get at NPO. A couple days after that they demanded we pay double the original amount to cover for NPO and got pissy when we refused. The worst part is they wanted us to pay in 30 days an amount we quite literally could not afford in an obviously transparent attempt to have an excuse to hit us again in a month. 

 

Like, I get they want to kill us and all, but they could try to be a tad bit less transparent about it.

 

I'm uncertain whether this is paranoia or propaganda, but this is untrue either way.

[Apeman]

sa

 

There is a large difference though. SK was standing on a long stated principle. Your spewing BS in an attempt to wiggle out of reps. If you actually cared about your position next war you would have peaced out. As it is you'll still be ZIed when the next war starts & have nothing to contribute. Kinda like Alpha.

 

Grillick was forced to step down in ST. Patrick's Day Massacre as part of the terms.

 

New mechanics make this a much worse idea though. By the time NPO peaces out they will have almost no improvements. Oh btw NPO you realize that your commerce buildings are actually costing you money right?

The commerce buildings only cost money on paper. So what their revenue is minus every turn. As a guy who has hit zi a few times I can vouch for the fact it only takes one turn of having your bills covered to restart your nation or fire nukes.

 

The only damage at this point being done to npo is the days potential revenue loss. At this point it really doesn't count unless you hold them at zi for one day longer than it would take to pay your reps. So really they are losing nothing from this as long as their rebuild funds(your reps) are sitting somewhere safe waiting to be used. They are basically sitting in vacation mode costing you guys money.

 

In my time here on orbis I have met some super intelligent people. Most of tS gov is on that list. They know what they are doing and being charged to continue this war.

 

So basically the only reason I even post in this thread is because it is silly. The winning side is claiming victory and yet getting the math wrong. Alliances like NPO and alpha have a bottom line realized. The point you can only take them to. From there you can't take anything else. You are not doing millions in damages everyday. Realistically you are costing your own alliances big bucks to fund this. Worst part is you are eliminating the opposition for the next war.

 

End this guys. Both the fighting and ignorance. Do the math, have a hoot, and come to realize this war is doing nothing. Let them build up, give them 6 months of peace. Then hit them when it hurts.

[Foltest]

The commerce buildings only cost money on paper. So what their revenue is minus every turn. As a guy who has hit zi a few times I can vouch for the fact it only takes one turn of having your bills covered to restart your nation or fire nukes.

 

The only damage at this point being done to npo is the days potential revenue loss. At this point it really doesn't count unless you hold them at zi for one day longer than it would take to pay your reps. So really they are losing nothing from this as long as their rebuild funds(your reps) are sitting somewhere safe waiting to be used. They are basically sitting in vacation mode costing you guys money.

 

In my time here on orbis I have met some super intelligent people. Most of tS gov is on that list. They know what they are doing and being charged to continue this war.

 

So basically the only reason I even post in this thread is because it is silly. The winning side is claiming victory and yet getting the math wrong. Alliances like NPO and alpha have a bottom line realized. The point you can only take them to. From there you can't take anything else. You are not doing millions in damages everyday. Realistically you are costing your own alliances big bucks to fund this. Worst part is you are eliminating the opposition for the next war.

 

End this guys. Both the fighting and ignorance. Do the math, have a hoot, and come to realize this war is doing nothing. Let them build up, give them 6 months of peace. Then hit them when it hurts.

 

I'm always a man for sensible peace, but you're incorrect in your assumption.

 

At the tiers they're fighting in, they are destroying cheap infra - assuming they're winning at all. Meanwhile they have a mere handful of people above 1k score. Look at the ANS of BK, tS, Mensa, Cornerstone, Guardian, TKR, etc. All above 1k score. I don't even need to pull out exact numbers to tell you that more than a significant portion of us are rebuilding or rebuilt. Meaning we can indefinitely fund the cheap infra/cheap military nations for as long as NPO et al wants to fight.

 

Meanwhile, the stat you off-handedly dismissed: lost revenue, is a huge factor. The exact factor they're arguing over when they claim $800 mil is too expensive. Our coalition is collecting net-profit while funding this war, their coalition is sinking lower and lower while burning their reserves - or hiding them.

[Ayayay]

I'm uncertain whether this is paranoia or propaganda, but this is untrue either way.

Oh really? So what would've happened if we accepted the terms and then didn't pay due to lack of money? Were you guys just going to go "Ahhhh, we got you good, we didn't even want the reps. You got pranked bro!" or would you have used it as an excuse to hit us again?

 

There's only two options, it's not paranoia when the other option would be literally retarded to assume.

[Sargun]

Last I was here we were deciding to roll Kastor.  What the hell happened?

[Woot]

Oh really? So what would've happened if we accepted the terms and then didn't pay due to lack of money? 

 

BK's bank would lend us some money, which we would then lend to you, and then you would pay BK back with it, and they would pay us back with those payments. Then you would owe us the money with interest, but we would sell that debt back to BK at a reduced rate, which they would then parcel out to private investors, who would then write it off on their alliance taxes. 

[Aphelion]

The number of people trying to convince NPO that paying reps is more efficient than fighting it out really says something. I mean, if you are convinced that the enemy is digging their own hole, why would you help them out of it? Let them burn. Unless of course, their defiance is starting to make you feel uncomfortable. Which is some sort of moral victory for them.

Oh, well. I'm from Rose. Now back to rebuilding and preparing for our next unsuccessful blitz.

[Charles Bolivar]

The number of people trying to convince NPO that paying reps is more efficient than fighting it out really says something. I mean, if you are convinced that the enemy is digging their own hole, why would you help them out of it? Let them burn. Unless of course, their defiance is starting to make you feel uncomfortable. Which is some sort of moral victory for them.

 

Oh, well. I'm from Rose. Now back to rebuilding and preparing for our next unsuccessful blitz.

 

I think it is more so that we realise NPO is the only alliance in that sphere capable of presenting a future challenge and we are doing everything possible to make sure the next war is more of a challenge than this war.

[Thalmor]

Oh, well. I'm from Rose. Now back to rebuilding and preparing for our next unsuccessful blitz.

 

That's the spirit!

[Beatrix]

The number of people trying to convince NPO that paying reps is more efficient than fighting it out really says something. I mean, if you are convinced that the enemy is digging their own hole, why would you help them out of it? Let them burn. Unless of course, their defiance is starting to make you feel uncomfortable. Which is some sort of moral victory for them.

 

Oh, well. I'm from Rose. Now back to rebuilding and preparing for our next unsuccessful blitz.

 

Well, they're losing 100m+ theoretical income every day, so from a pure economic perspective, yeah, they're losing more.

[The Mad Titan]

The commerce buildings only cost money on paper. So what their revenue is minus every turn. As a guy who has hit zi a few times I can vouch for the fact it only takes one turn of having your bills covered to restart your nation or fire nukes.

 

The only damage at this point being done to npo is the days potential revenue loss. At this point it really doesn't count unless you hold them at zi for one day longer than it would take to pay your reps. So really they are losing nothing from this as long as their rebuild funds(your reps) are sitting somewhere safe waiting to be used. They are basically sitting in vacation mode costing you guys money.

 

In my time here on orbis I have met some super intelligent people. Most of tS gov is on that list. They know what they are doing and being charged to continue this war.

 

So basically the only reason I even post in this thread is because it is silly. The winning side is claiming victory and yet getting the math wrong. Alliances like NPO and alpha have a bottom line realized. The point you can only take them to. From there you can't take anything else. You are not doing millions in damages everyday. Realistically you are costing your own alliances big bucks to fund this. Worst part is you are eliminating the opposition for the next war.

 

End this guys. Both the fighting and ignorance. Do the math, have a hoot, and come to realize this war is doing nothing. Let them build up, give them 6 months of peace. Then hit them when it hurts.

 

Your not counting missiles. They are already at zero revenue, but theoretically in a protracted war we can reduce NPO to zero infra and zero improvements.

 

 

Oh really? So what would've happened if we accepted the terms and then didn't pay due to lack of money? Were you guys just going to go "Ahhhh, we got you good, we didn't even want the reps. You got pranked bro!" or would you have used it as an excuse to hit us again?

 

There's only two options, it's not paranoia when the other option would be literally retarded to assume.

 

I know NPO was offered financing by SO, I am sure UPN would be offered the same.

[Guest Curufinwe]

Pangui neglected to mention we actually did agree to peace(only fake tc and guardian were left to accept iirc). A day later BK reneged and decided to hold us hostage to get at NPO. A couple days after that they demanded we pay double the original amount to cover for NPO and got pissy when we refused. The worst part is they wanted us to pay in 30 days an amount we quite literally could not afford in an obviously transparent attempt to have an excuse to hit us again in a month. 

 

Like, I get they want to kill us and all, but they could try to be a tad bit less transparent about it.

 

I've been trying to avoid this thread since last time I was here I greatly exceeded my recommended sodium intake, but I just thought I'd clear up the many misconceptions in this post:

 

1) We made it clear from the very start the discussions with tC were tentative and the the terms were subject to change.  We didn't have a deal set in stone that we reneged on at the last minute and we certainly didn't have a treaty draft drawn up that we tore up and threw in your face.  As I explained in the many hours of discussion with NG, circumstances changed when Rose decided to seek peace and NPO was the only major AA not to do so - at that point giving tC a separate deal lost much of its appeal for us, which led our position to evolve to the idea that a joint peace for your side of the coalition was preferable.  There was no firm agreement in place that was cancelled at the last minute as signatures were busily being put to e-paper and to suggest otherwise misconstrues the conversation that was taking place (in our minds anyways, perhaps you viewed our talks in a different light since you seemed more keen on peace than we did when your side approached us, but that's a misconception on your part and not ours).

 

2) We didn't 'demand' that you pay double the original amount, we suggested that tC could cover NPO's portion of the joint reps as a way of working around their refusal to negotiate on terms we viewed as acceptable.  We also suggested a possible method of financing the reps at the invitation of one of Orbis's finest private banks, which would have actually provided you with a means to pay the proportionately higher amount without bankrupting yourselves or defaulting on any agreement you made.  As I said, this was put forward as a suggestion in case tC was interested in ending the war despite NPO's uncompromising stance and was dropped when we were informed that you weren't interested in the offer.

 

3) We actually offered you a NAP of indeterminate length to help offset fears that we were going to hit you again shortly after peace was signed (although the length itself was not discussed since we didn't get that far with the idea), so no, we weren't planning on rolling UPN again 31 days after peace was signed.  We actually don't have anything in particular against UPN  - our primary concern was receiving what we viewed as adequate compensation for your, Polaris and NPO's failed attack on us. And, given that you're allies that acted together against us, you were seen as being jointly responsible for repairing at least some of the damage you caused.  Once that issued was settled we weren't overly concerned what happened with tC and NPO, provided they refrained from further aggression against us.

 

4) Although the discussions between myself, NG and Roq became heated at times, the only person who really struck me as pissy  was you, although thankfully we only spoke when you queried me to let me know that UPN was no longer willing to consider the terms we had previously discussed (although maybe you're always that way in private conversation - I don't know you that well ).  

[Tali]

I've been trying to avoid this thread since last time I was here I greatly exceeded my recommended sodium intake, but I just thought I'd clear up the many misconceptions in this post:

 

1) We made it clear from the very start the discussions with tC were tentative and the the terms were subject to change. We didn't have a deal set in stone that we reneged on at the last minute and we certainly didn't have a treaty draft drawn up that we tore up and threw in your face. As I explained in the many hours of discussion with NG, circumstances changed when Rose decided to seek peace and NPO was the only major AA not to do so - at that point giving tC a separate deal lost much of its appeal for us, which led our position to evolve to the idea that a joint peace for your side of the coalition was preferable. There was no firm agreement in place that was cancelled at the last minute as signatures were busily being put to e-paper and to suggest otherwise misconstrues the conversation that was taking place (in our minds anyways, perhaps you viewed our talks in a different light since you seemed more keen on peace than we did when your side approached us, but that's a misconception on your part and not ours).

 

2) We didn't 'demand' that you pay double the original amount, we suggested that tC could cover NPO's portion of the joint reps as a way of working around their refusal to negotiate on terms we viewed as acceptable. We also suggested a possible method of financing the reps at the invitation of one of Orbis's finest private banks, which would have actually provided you with a means to pay the proportionately higher amount without bankrupting yourselves or defaulting on any agreement you made. As I said, this was put forward as a suggestion in case tC was interested in ending the war despite NPO's uncompromising stance and was dropped when we were informed that you weren't interested in the offer.

 

3) We actually offered you a NAP of indeterminate length to help offset fears that we were going to hit you again shortly after peace was signed (although the length itself was not discussed since we didn't get that far with the idea), so no, we weren't planning on rolling UPN again 31 days after peace was signed. We actually don't have anything in particular against UPN - our primary concern was receiving what we viewed as adequate compensation for your, Polaris and NPO's failed attack on us. And, given that you're allies that acted together against us, you were seen as being jointly responsible for repairing at least some of the damage you caused. Once that issued was settled we weren't overly concerned what happened with tC and NPO, provided they refrained from further aggression against us.

 

4) Although the discussions between myself, NG and Roq became heated at times, the only person who really struck me as pissy was you, although thankfully we only spoke when you queried me to let me know that UPN was no longer willing to consider the terms we had previously discussed (although maybe you're always that way in private conversation - I don't know you that well ).

Curufinwe you can't use rational thoughts with their side. They don't understand or grasp reasoning skill.

 

Just kidding. I met some reasonable people on their side.

Edited October 6, 2016 by Riza Hawkeye

[LordRahl2]

Mensa raided us en masse a month after we founded

Arrgh raided us a few months later and told us they were paid for the hit by your sphere

 

[James Mallister]

Longest P&W thread is about the greatest fighting force in all of Mensa....Manpile. (Note to self: procure group photoshop)

 

Longest thread on our forums? Literally nothing. No post contains more than 2 characters.

Manpile? What is that?

 

And you're joking about the 2 characters thing right??...right?

[LordRahl2]

Manpile? What is that?

 

And you're joking about the 2 characters thing right??...right?

 

We subdivide ourselves into squads called maniples.  We named our maniple "manpile".

 

Absolutely not.  The thread is well over 300 pages of the letters "a" and "s".

[James Mallister]

We subdivide ourselves into squads called maniples.  We named our maniple "manpile".

 

Absolutely not.  The thread is well over 300 pages of the letters "a" and "s".

Well I mean... cool...? I think? I mean it is surprising tbh

[Vanek26]

Well I mean... cool...? I think? I mean it is surprising tbh

sa