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“Inbred frickwit nazi piece of shit” Been away for three months and this guy is still allowed to post on the forums? Like this game needs a serious moderation overhaul. @Alex

There is nothing fun about TKR.

>buorhann > Rickky >Alkaline Goodluck man.

the frick do I have to do with this I played that shitty game for a month or so before coming here

Come on, dude. I'm gonna try and settle this in good faith. 1. We are not defending Thalmor's actions. 2. We are not claiming Thalmor is a victim. We do not have a problem with him being punished in whatever way Alex sees fit. 3. We do have a problem with Thalmor's actions being used as justification for IG actions/demands. That's literally it. Sure, we can argue about the extent to which 3 is true, but we have the admin of the game admitting that his mistake led to IG consequences. If you want to come at me and call me a Nazi you must be out of your goddamn mind and I don't think I'm entirely in the wrong for thinking much of the game would agree with me.

I... what? I'm pretty sure durmij counts as telling someone. Like, do you not know what a lie is? Do you not consider durmij a person? I don't get it.

She also made miniature flags for all alliances and idk if she ever posted it: On a serious note, I tried poaching Ame for 3 months before she joined Rose. And I've also never genuinely cried when I saw someone's nation page. When I saw the pastebin I had genuine tears because I never got to say goodbye to her. She was the kind of person you could hit up at any time and would make you feel better. She made everyone around her happy, and a lot of people, me included, will miss that sort of personality in a game like this, and hope our bork returns to us one day.

Ame was an incredibly kind individual and brightened everyone's day up when she was on Discord In honor of Ame quitting, post your favorite Ame screenshots so everyone else can see how wonderful she was @Ameyuri, you will be missed https://politicsandwar.com/nation/id=79805

Fun Fact of IRL Buorhann: I put in my resume that I had great leadership skills of organizing multiple players in a online game (DAoC during this time) without having to interact with them in person to overcome obstacles (PvE Raids or PvP groups) on a resume. Managed to land a management job that paid over than entry level pay as my first job with it. The interview was actually very interesting when that came up, haha.

Welp, this is exactly what I've been trying to avoid. People making generalizations based on something (which was obviously very wrong, Thalmor needs to be severely punished) a single person has done. You (Kosmo) and W don't know KT nearly as well as I do. I'd encourage you to get to know them better before calling them all Nazis. On another note, is this what you want for your game, @Alex? People trying to turn it into the disgusting OOC garbage filled cesspool that is CN? We as a community should make sure things don't get OOC. When someone like Thalmor does a very serious OOC attack, there's only one thing to do: punish him accordingly and don't let it extrapolate in-game. On the other hand, we have someone who used it for in-game benefits, having deliberately deceived and lied to the admin after having received special treatment, which was only possible because someone's identity was revealed, when that shouldn't have happened. I honestly fear for the future of this game, the way things are going.

Firstly I don't care for nor support Nazi's or anything similar, before you start running your mouth about me. Secondly you're tarnishing the entire alliance with the same brush as the one you use to tarnish Thalmor. Thalmor deserves everything that comes his way and that has come this way. However that doesn't mean that the entire alliance of KT is a bunch of Nazi nut jobs. Like unless you have concrete evidence proving otherwise, at which point take it to the moderation team. I won't be tarnishing the entire alliance of KT as a Nazi grouping, and nor should anyone else. A lot of them are very likely innocent in all of this and shouldn't have their reputations ruined because of one person. Thirdly Thalmor while his identity was revealed by Alex. He has since made a post stating that he made a mistake by trusting the player he told. You're entitled to your own thoughts on the matter but that's an issue with you and Alex take it up with him. Finally I echo what I said at the start incase you happen to not notice it. I don't support Nazi's I don't care for them and they have absolutely zero place here. It's also my honest opinion that this thread has actually gone on for far too long and that it needs to calm down.

I play the game as it is in its current rule set AND intended mechanics. Never have I broken a rule throughout my history in this game. Regardless of the perceived ideaology’s that people like to label on others, I do my best to play with anyone while at the same time I encourage those in their own Discord and the moderators here in this game to rightfully punish transgressors of blatant attacks as they see fit or as the rules state in their current establishment. With that said, I do not follow Mob Rule or the emotional justice they seek out. That sets very dangerous precedents and it becomes a HUGE slippery slope later as it progresses. It throws out any attempts of maintaining order to ensure those that are innocent are not mislabeled or improperly attacked (similar to how Smith is attacked, which has gotten absolutely stupid at this point). As I have stated multiple times in this, I am not arguing that Thalmor shouldn’t be punished (Or Rickky, or Kastor, or any others who step over the lines), but if they are to be punished - follow the foundation of the rules and punishments to do so.

> Your own leadership was aware of this before the war. No, we weren't. This was literally stated weeks ago when Sketchy and I began talking as well, so you were aware of this and stating otherwise here is a blatant falsehood. We did not know until well after KT/TGH knew about it, actually. As per my quote that you so enjoy using out-of-context, Queenie wasn't telling people about it and did not do so until it became known to her that Thalmor was telling people. So, I've said it before and I'll say it again. TKR's reason for this war was very clearly outlined in this post from the beginning. We have never once changed our reasoning. TRF was invited by TCW per their treaty and they accepted the offer. I don't pretend to fully comprehend the whole history between TRF/KT(/TGH?) and there may be a litany of offenses that helped decide their reason for accepting but they ultimately are only in this war because they were invited. Trying to make it out like TKR supports OOC/had some ridiculous "vengeance pact" is both false and not in your favor. We've made it very clear that our reason for holding up the recent set of terms had everything to do with you all trying to devalue TRF's contribution to our coalition and nothing more. > Alex's logs show Queen M was in fact surprised by Thalmor's involvement Yes, they do but, from my understanding, not because of a lack of history but because she thought they had put that chapter behind them and then he decided to revive it. > your leadership attempted to push hard for an apology from both me and Thalmor in relation to it. We pushed hard for an apology from you in regards to Thalmor's bounty on Queen M? Hardly. The first round of talks including an apology for the bounty from Thalmor (and only Thalmor), who effectively turned their OOC drama IC because of his bounty, an argument your side essentially agreed with. Regardless, these apologies were the first thing dropped and haven't been a part of talks for two, nearly three, weeks now, I believe, so I find it rather amusing that you're only bringing all this up now.

Wow look at all the snowflakes. If you have no problem doing it anonymously, then you should have no problem doing it in public. Don't be like antifa and hide behind a mask. Mask gets taken off, don't be a pansy about it.

Why are you arguing over her telling only Durmij when that's another blatant lie? TKR gov was aware of it. But of course it doesn't end there. She explicitly used it as her CB against KT.

Really a shame Ame was a lot of things to us, a girl, a gamer, a junkie, but most importantly a wonderful person And I'm sure, if she knew of this thread, this would be her thoughts

I suppose I might as well jump in here- This was a particularly difficult decision where I had to weigh protecting the anonymity of one player, who placed a bounty, and what I perceived to be as chronic racial harassment of another player. You are free to criticize my decision, as many of you are, but you are obviously not privy to the same level of information that I am. I've been doing this for long enough now that I've had many people try to use their position as donators to buy influence in-game, try to outright bribe me, etc. and I've prided myself by not accepting literally thousands of dollars to help players succeed in the game "under the table." I bring this up, because similarly I pride myself in being transparent, not taking sides in player disputes, etc. I think that I tend to do very well at that, particularly through apathy. I don't care or even follow the various alliances, coalitions, and wars that happen at this point. There was a time when the game was smaller and a larger part of my life that I did know who all the big alliances and leaders were, but we're past that point now. So if anyone thinks that I am taking sides in any particular situation, just know that I don't care enough to do so. Now this one particular instance, the only instance I've ever revealed a player's anonymous bounty, was in hindsight a mistake. I did not do it with any intention of playing favorites, contributing to in-game politics, etc. but only as one person sympathetic to another being harassed for no reason other than being black. Racism is wrong, and I did punish Thalmor and threaten to ban him if it ever happened again, and that was not part of the mistake. The mistake was, of course, succumbing to my sympathy for another's unjust harassment and letting that weigh more in my mind than transparency, objectivity, and all of the other qualities that make a good admin. So yes, I obviously screwed up here, you're right to criticize me. I'll do my best to go back to administrating through apathy, which imo is fair for everyone. But for the sake of transparency, and hopefully to build a little trust and ensure you that this was a one time thing, and that I really don't care who puts a bounty on who for whatever reason so long as it's within the rules, I will include logs of my conversation with Queen M. It should be apparent by reading them that I did not expect divulging this one bit of information would result in anything further. Of course I was wrong, and it was wrong to entrust a player with this information with the first place, but I'm just hoping you can see where I'm coming from and that at least I think my heart was in the right place. So tl;dr I'm sorry, you're right to criticize me This is the only time it's happened before (or since) and I have no intention of doing it again I have obviously learned from my mistake here not to entrust sensitive information to a player I don't care enough about your in-game politics to want to influence it or take sides or whatever What's done is done and I can't go back and undo it, however, I am hoping that by being open and transparent we can all move on from here EDIT: For extreme clarity, I will again reiterate that this was a one time thing, there have not been other instances of this, and going forward I will NOT breach player anonymity such as in this case (short of a court order, of course)

IT'S THE NUMBERS AGAIN https://politicsandwar.com/nation/war/timeline/war=332002

He has ensured and made clear that the bounty system will not be used for harassment. What he's furthermore assured is that he will not breach player privacy, so that people cannot use OOC moderation as a weapon against their IG opponents.

So what would happen in your completely competent world then? CN again? She wasn't worth it then. Only the real ladies drop their panties for alliance leaders like ourselves.

It's a double edged sword my friend, impressed though some may be. I was talking to a girl on tinder once, whereupon I let slip that "I lead an alliance in a browser based nation simulator, and I'm kind of a big deal." It must have so impressed her that she became too shy to continue the conversation, because she stopped messaging. Such is the burden we bear.

Many of us never bothered to get involved with gov if we played that game at all, or else simply were not into nations sims before CN became a complete dumpster fire. I'd be curious to know what you consider a "real challenge" that existed in CN compared to here. On a military and actual in-game level I'd say we've seen plenty of situations that required creative thinking and competence, as much as any situation there. Perhaps the politics aren't as intricate, but I don't know that I would agree with that for all the games history. On a smaller scale, sure, but CN and nation sims were a different game in 2008, membership wise, compared to now. I'm not convinced that this game, were it to ever hit similar player numbers, would not be equally as interesting. In any case I find the dichotomy funny considering its a browser nation sim. Nobody went through any real "challenges" in these games lol. Certainly not the point I would hold them up as inspiration IRL or put in on my CV...

Don’t give Clarke too much attention, lol.

Whales and old timers all had to endure city timers from city 1 to however many cities they are at now (Looking at Seb, Belisarius and Don Juan), and removing something that defined their gameplay and made them adapt just because we think it's now obsolete will obviously hurt those players as they had to invest time and be patient, in something that now everybody can get a shortcut to. Also, city timers extend content. From a game perspective, removing city timers is a horrible idea. We have credits, and without timers you can just spam buy cities if you're in the low/mid tier. I know we all dick around and troll Sheepy, but he didn't design this game to be pay to win. I'm actually really proud that he didn't sell out like the CN admin, and knowing this game won't sell out in the future just makes it more appealing. Are we supposed to suggest removing credit caps after this so that everyone with a fat paypal account can have 30 cities now? It also allows larger alliances to shove money down their member's throats for growth, while micros don't have that privilege. Individual performances become less important, whats the point of playing the market for 10 hours a day when TKR/BK/TCW/NPO will just drop 500mil-1bil on you over 2 months. Coming back that, at that point the most efficient way to play the game is to just tax everyone a 100% and run a full command economy, trying to spend as much money as possible for long term benefit. You're talking about risk as a high deterrent, but risk is manageable. If you spread the risk over a hundred investments and 1/3 of them fail, you're still ahead of everyone else, and you've still made a huge profit. Than you have to think about content in general. I don't mind project timers being removed that much, it wouldn't give anyone a significant advantage. But cities are literally all of the content in this game during peace. Buying through cities fast makes you miss a lot of content and grinding it instead makes you fulfilled when you see your nation. If we keep removing cooldowns on everything, it will defeat the purpose of the game, as Alex put those timers there for a reason. A majority of the alliances currently in the top 20 or even 30 would be at a high disadvantage and have to adapt, as city timers provide breathing room where we can teach the players how to play the game at a slower pace, slowly balancing tiers and having a reason to why you grow during peace. I think an integral part of alliance's strategies in this game is to grow during peace to be ready for the next war, that's what most IA/Econ/Milcom planning really revolves around. If I know that we'll be fighting IQ in the next 2 weeks, why wouldn't I just dish out 10bil to grow a fat low tier of 14 city nations that give me a vital advantage, defeating the whole purpose of IQs tiers and whole war strategy that they built for 2 years? You're not thinking about it the right way. You're thinking about it in the mindset of "Well it takes a lot more than 10 days to save up and buy a city, so why is the timer there in the first place?". That's not the point of the cooldown. The point of the timer being there at all is so that you can't instantly buy as many cities as you want if you have the cash. It's there for balance reasons, so that there is a sense of slow progression. So that alliances can't dump money during war to improve their chances, and instead have to plan during peace. So that there is breathing room for players, and so that there can be a numerous amount of systems that all work just as well, for a wide range of alliances.

I’m not sure I get what Agent W and James are even saying. Sheepy already admitted he was wrong and completely changed his way of thinking and rules in regard to handling the entire situation. What exactly are you guys arguing about?

And yet Sheepy made that huge post. Did you glance over it? (That’s also terrible business etiquette with what you’re claiming)

Can you point out in this TOS where it states the anonymity is removed once someone violates the rules? Pretty sure this game is based on Admin punishment and not Mob Rule.

This is completely false. Are people completely being obtuse with the logs provided or something?

Lol, you inbred frickwit nazi piece of shit. "Nazis are bad" was very much a global position that has nothing to do with the left. Go cry some more over the fact the world won't let you normalize your bullshit.

Again, one action should condemn everyone. If that is the case I hope you accept if a CoS member does something offensive that you may not even be made aware of, everyone should come and roll you out of the game. That's the logic you're using here.

If it gives him attention he'll do it. Not sure why either side is still bringing kastor comments into this - his comments should be null, because kastor.

So... How do logs from a week ago prove that TKR gov knew about it 2 months ago before the war?

What if there's more to the manipulation and deceit? More lies? "Shifty, who gave you those logs?" "Answer me, damn it" Later that day: Shifty never exposes his sources. But the attempts at guesses were just: ??

That time she changed everyone in AdMech's channel to some version of Smoff and deeply upset Dio That time she got addicted to dating sims

Some people feign anger to gain a upper hand by playing with other's emotions. While the intended action itself wasn't right, but you can clearly see how the individual used that information for personal gain and even was disappointed after hearing the offender fessed up. Isn't the whole point to have people fess up to their "crime" and be "apologetic"? Remember the Arkiri moment? He never repeated it afterwards, yet he was still hunted down despite being literally the only player who publicly apologized for such actions in the history of this game. Their plan was to use it to apply a guilty by association on everybody, even when they had no knowledge of it. Your own leadership was aware of this before the war. Again, while the statement was wrong, the "offended parties" didn't look for an apology - even after knowing the player in question was punished - she looked to take full advantage of it for her own gain, even to the point of manipulating the Admin of the game for it. That is why I presume people down play it. Multiple "wrongs" don't make a "right".

All solid points, but both of you are forgetting the more basic argument, which is that given competence and militarization on the part of the 3 counters... it quite simply wouldn't even work. If the counters were downdeclaring, then at best the nation that took the city jump would now be on par with those 3 counters, but it's still an 8v1 war. At best, the newly enlarged nation can beige a few of those before being zeroed and beiged, if they're lucky and they attacked marginally actives, or their opponents were attempting to pin as opposed to win. Also, throwing a bil into one nation... that's one of those times when tanks really pay for themselves; nice job buying your enemy a bunch of cities lmao

Rip Ame, I wish she would come back, her nation birthday was pretty recent too There's this gem too btw

Yeah, you're right. You shouldn't care that an Admin action caused in-game consequences.

I agree with the project timer but not with the city timer. You really don’t want to have situation when someone at city 10 declares on rich smaller nations and then zooms up to city 14/15. Some might argue that big cities are cost prohibitive. But for rich and big alliances, this might not totally be the case. Yes it will increasingly get more cost prohibitive but to ensure that situations like that don’t occur it might be better to leave city timers.

I agree completely. Frankly I think even the city timer could be removed. All these timers do is benefit older nations by putting a hard cap on how quickly alliances or groups of new players can boost each other up. The exponential growth of cost for cities does a very good job on slowing the ability to grow into ever higher tiers, where the 10 day timer isn't really an issue. Where it is an issue is for alliances boosting up new players. or investing in beefing up active new alliances with young members. Not that people will necessarily start pumping new guys up to 16 cities rapidly without a timer, its a very risky and expensive investment. But there are some use cases, and in any event, if they want to spend the money, power to 'em. Moving the timeless to 10 cities was already a very good step though.

Oiy, just rolling some bread to be baked into Oblivion. They have to at least deal more damage than The Illuminati vs Knights Templar to be worth an announcement. I haven't even lost 100infra yet.

Praise be to Atom! Congrats James ❤️

See, it took me less than a minute to make the post after seeing Shadow's combat report, and a couple of minutes to decide where to post it, but I hovered over the 'submit topic' button for almost half an hour deciding if I should post it at all. I knew, I knew there would be people that didn't understand, and it's an incredibly difficult concept to explain to those that don't already get it. But, since you're being so restrained and polite, I'll do my best for you. You see, the thing is that you're so hung up on the symptoms, and looking for something easy to blame, that you're forgetting to consider the causes or the solutions. Now, I want to make it abundantly clear that I do not support nor condone Nazism nor any similar form of hatred and intolerance, and my posts are not in any way meant to mock or make light of the very real struggles and the very real culture of hate that all too many people suffer under. Nor are my posts meant to mock @Django Jane as a person. Rather, what my posts are meant to do is to use humor to defuse the situation and attempt to de-escalate the rhetoric so that things can become less toxic, as opposed to turning into a self-sustaining and accelerating cycle of negativity. I make light of your responses to Thalmor's anonymous, (though admittedly racially-charged) OOC attack, because witch hunts and responding to personal attacks with more, harsher, and less anonymous personal attacks does not address the cause of the problem. More importantly, your responses would create an environment of excessive and unfun guardedness at best, and outright OOC hostility towards anyone and everyone at the worst. Your actions are not solutions, they're just adding another set of problems into the environment, and encouraging the original problem on top of that. Now, you might say, how dare I claim that someone being sensitive encouraged a racially-charged OOC attack. Well, let me explain; you have to realize that Thalmor made his choice based on who he knew would be the target that would create the most drama. I'm 100% certain that while the bounty was racially-charged, it was not racially-motivated. It was very obviously troll-Queen-M motivated. As far as I'm aware, trolls do this kind of isolated jack-assery because they're bored, or because they have a grudge, or they want attention, and they feel safe and secure from consequences due to anonymity. It needs to be said that this does not make it acceptable, it does not make it funny, and it does not make a fun environment for anyone, but taking trolling seriously gives the troll exactly what the troll wanted in the first place: drama, attention, notoriety. When these things are taken seriously, the trolls win. And when this happens, it shows the troll and others of a similar mindset who to target and how to target them for maximum drama and triggering. It therefore shouldn't be surprising that they continue such successful, if distasteful behaviors. That's what I mean by 'encouraging the original problem'. Serious hate is a serious issue, and repeated harassment is something that must be acted against decisively and promptly, but this was neither of those things. This was a single incident, and as Alex's logs show Queen M was in fact surprised by Thalmor's involvement, so this wasn't part of a repeated set of attacks from Thalmor against Queen M at all. So what's the solution? Obviously we can't sit idly by and not set boundaries of good behavior. Well, on top of using the official channels of a moderation strike and/or blocking communication with the harasser, we can use social pressure. In this case, I have chosen to use humor. You might not have picked up on it, but my original post here actually mocks both your over-zealous and serious response to Thalmor's tasteless joke and the joke itself, and it furthermore mocks the Nazi culture of hate and their ridiculous symbol on top of all that. Humor can and should be a positive and constructive force; when used responsibly it can soothe anger and calm hostilities, it can discourage without being harsh, and it can cheer without being patronizing. It is far from easy, and no-one is perfect, but it may well be the best solution we have against our baser tendencies and against the evils of our time.

I'm not a liar. I did nothing wrong. I told nobody. I didn't lie. I didn't start this war because of what thalmor did.

Hey guys, maybe we're looking at this the wrong way. I mean, the way I see it Queen M managed to get at least some of us to do the impossible: Side with Sheepy when he technically messed something up. That takes skill of truly monumental proportions.

Yeah, by finding non-micro alliances to join.

Why must I log on everyday to 20+ PMs ?