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I'm locking this thread. After just reading through it all, it's clear to me that this discussion has devolved beyond the point of repair. There has been a lot of out-of-character attacks, as well as some anti-trans comments. Let me make it clear that I will not tolerate hate speech on this forum, in-game, or in our Discord server. Quite frankly, I think that one's RL gender should be largely irrelevant to this game. Bringing it up for discussion with the intent to attack, shame, or make fun of other players is always wrong. Many warning points have been issued as a result of posts in this thread, and most of the posts have been hidden as well. I implore everyone to take a deep breath and remember that we are all real people behind these screens. Be kinder to one another and remember that this is a game. You don't need to bring anything about a person's real life into public discussion, pretty much ever.

A long time ago we made this alliance to prove a point. In some ways we accomplished that and in others we didn't. We made it to the top 50 multiple times, had a stable government, and had the best group of people we ever worked with in this game. Problem is we were loosing members to inactivity, made bad fa decisions, the government wasn't able to be as active as they would like to be, and every time we made it to the top 50 something would happen. In the end, we went too far downhill to keep going, and by the time we realized we could have saved it it was too late. "Your gov is not complete without a boss106" - Church aka Kermit “We outta Aunt Jemima, but now I got the Bisquick. Low cal, but she’ll do” -Paparus, Head of IA "The Crusaders of the Holy Boogaloo have finally finished their crusade for the FBI Watch List" - Coardten79 "CHB was easy. It was like riding a bike except the bike was on fire and the ground was on fire and everything was on fire because it was hell" - boss106 "If she has those eyes, she has those thighs, shes a guy" - Sauce Dealer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdWw9SksiwQ&ab_channel=Metallica-Topic TL:DR: Useless micro (CHB) merges into useless micro (TCM).

As many of you know one of the most difficult things in Politics & War is not the game itself, but rather what the game brings with it. I've been playing this game for going on 6 years. For years I've been seeing the forums fill up with issues and problems of "OOC" (Out of Character) attacks on people, alliances and even relatives of players. The P&W community has been historically plagued by issues where players will take their grievances to discord, harassing others, starting slander campaigns even going so far as to make bot farms to target alliances and players. P&W doesn't have a million member player base where we're bound to get a few bad apples. It seems that we have bad trees that are producing these negative, hate-filled players. Before I go into the proposed change here is some background. I've played RuneScape for over 10 years. JAGEX, the moderating body of RuneScape announced that they would crack down on botting, and account hijacking by giving out bans based on "alternate evidence". Whether this means by collecting information from the stores selling stolen accounts, tracking RuneScape account activity by Google+ log-in times (to verify if the account is being shared across the globe) and even by collecting information sent in by players from discord servers. According to Mod Weath during a "Bot Busting" live-stream they received over 110,000 player reports leading to nearly 300,000 accounts being banned, locked or even returned to their rightful owners. Even more so some players have actually been arrested for activity that was flagged by both JAGEX employees and players. Botting, account hijacking and selling of Gold is down in the RuneScape community by 70% since 2018 with the new measures taken by JAGEX. The recent issue that has occurred is OOC attacks on United Ummah. For those that are unaware, United Ummah had several discord accounts message their gov and members in discord, harassing them by posting anti-Islamic messages and images. While these accounts are barred from the UU discord sever they are still in the main P&W discord server where they're preying on United Ummah members. I believe change needs to occur to better the community and make it more inviting to new players (noobs). This change goes something like this: Proposal: Open up a "Community Reports" section on the forums to handle issues that aren't game related but that extend to the whole of the community. 1.) Discord servers that are only for the use of P&W should be seen as an extension of the Politics & War community outreach (like the forums, blogs, chat rooms, etc.) This is because players that use discord to harass, manipulate (pretending to be staff or Alex) and abuse others are doing so to circumvent the in-game chat system as to not be "caught" and have moderation strikes 2.) These players should have game consequences, strikes or bans for the harassment provided that sufficient video proof or photo proof is given on the initial report. This will cut down on hate-speech and provide people targeted by these attacks a true method to have the abusers adequately punished for their actions. By increasing the consequences to game moderation most players will avoid others they have an issue with, rather than start attacking one another because nobody can tell them otherwise. 3.) Finally add this rule: "Personal (OOC) attacks on another player based on age, gender, race, religion or creed is against Community Rules." This would mean that all the slander of people being pedophiles, rapists and worse has the potential to have strikes against your nation or banned! No more toxicity and hate spewing. It's time we as a community acted to cut down on this systemic issue. IF YOU READ NOTHING ELSE READ THIS Over this Christmas I talked to Alex about implementing this rule. I am by no ways trying to make this game "PG" or even "PC". As some alliance leaders know you've probably had an applicant at some point say something to the extent of "Yeah I tried playing with (XYZ) alliance and they were too toxic." If you yourself are tired of the OOC attacks on players and alliances please vote in the poll. While we try to make our own slices of the game a friendly environment I see it as a duty to this game to try and make the community as a whole a welcoming place for new members.

Peace has been reached between those involved beginning midnight server time Dec 31. We would like to thank our allies for standing in the gap and having fun with the demigods of Pantheon. Fighting alongside one another has strengthened the bonds between our alliances for future conflicts.

Why anyone touches your dumpster fire of a micro is really beyond me, bound to get burned.

He doesn't want that guy to be pestered by you incessantly, and thus be tempted to hand in his 72.

So, Golden Dawn went from irrelevant micro to Chute Mi doing stupid stuff pt 100? I feel like every alliance he runs pulls the exact same moves every single time...

I do not want to give Alex or anyone he hires the authority to indirectly moderate the Discord channels of the P&W community and the thought of him gaining that power is terrifying to me. First off, Alex's judgment and capability as an admin is questionable to begin with. His ruling on matters can be inconsistent. I guess he can pawn that off to hired help but having anonymous, faceless people do it doesn't bring me much comfort. Second, I don't want my speech patrolled in private spaces by third parties. I agree to the rules of P&W because I want to play so I keep my nose clean. I agree to stay out of trouble and not create problems for my community (KT) because I want to be a part of it. I do not consent to have my actions off-site patrolled by game moderators and although I will be sad to do so, I will quit the game if it comes to that. Third, the community does a decent enough job policing itself. I guess it could be better but this suggestion of letting Alex judge if my 'are traps gay?' question violates game rules is silly.

You have managed to miss every single point Scarfalot made, and instead reverted back to "I believe tyrion he wouldn't lie hurrrr secret hm leader". And no, neither I nor relevant players on either side of last conflict seem to have much interest in sharing the remainder of the intelligence that drove this war and may drive future politics with you. My members were presented with the why's and what's at the onset. My allies and government are intimately aware of all considerations and evidence that factored into our decision to go to war. As are various key leaders on the other side. Similarly, ts listens to continued dialogue in private non-phoenyx channels. You are not, nor will be, aware of the contents of any of that, because youre neither relevant to our interests as an individual, nor particularly trustworthy or refreshing to interact with.

I frankly agree with a lot of what you're saying, but you lose me instantly at point 1 for two reasons. 1 Every community manages their members without interference from Alex, and in their servers, that is how it should be. Members are generally allowed to freely leave if they feel it's too toxic, and most leadership will proactively remove these people from their AAs. 2. The reason moderation doesn't currently extend to community servers is due to evidence and lack of definition. Most of the major communities are in more games than PnW, so it'd only apply to a few micros who just organize for fighting. Evidence can easily be forged in private discords, and I get to say this for once not meaning to be rude, Alex is not particularly discord savvy enough to know the difference. The third proposal has my full support though, and should be enforced a lot harsher than the forum mods showed capable of the past few days. That said, if people are going around impersonating Alex, you should report that to the discord staff as soon as it's known so our staff can make a notice and help players know how to identify the real Alex. Which for anyone who might be reading this and does not know, you should be able to click their name and it will look like this The name, and number MUST MATCH (Alex_PW#4970) or it's someone impersonating Alex. Edit with one additional note: OOC is Out of Character, not Out of Context, as in referring to the person behind the keyboard, not the character they play in the game.

It was a normal Saturday night, Shota Duck and I were downtown on our way to Femboy Hooters There was nothing unusual about this particular night, apart from some fog of course, but it was then that we had our realization. During a discussion about who was the superior MMA fighter, Jon Jones or Daniel Cormier, we noticed a stray angel attempting to cross the highway we were driving down They were walking out of an old Denny's on the shady side of town, covered from head to toe in bruises and cuts. There he stood, the man, the myth, the legend, Alan himself. Leader of worlds, destroyer of Black Skies *Shota Duck yells in background "You wrote that backwards dumbass"* I tell Shota Duck to stfu as I continue monologuing We pull over on the side of the highway, right beside Alan and the beaten Angel Alan, covered in the blood of his enemies, pulls out an old cigar and lights it, staring our way Shota Duck pops open his door, as I follow suit We approach Alan, intent on finding out what happened here *Alan in deep voice* "You here to join the fight?" Shota Duck rolls up his sleeves, revealing tattoos covering both of his arms from wrist to shoulders, every one a different anime girl from the series Kiniro Mosaic It was then that Alan realized who we really were! Not really, he had no clue "Is that supposed to be intimidating?" Alan says as he brushes back his hair "No need to intimidate" says Shota Duck, "Death is just as simple" I stand behind him, rolling gatcha in Azur Lane "Frightful" Alan says sarcastically Shota Duck suddenly appears surprised, "Wait, really?" he says "You really do have brick for brains" says Alan, unimpressed I step forward, phone battery dead "That was uncalled for, you uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh..." *Chute yells in background "What was I supposed to say here again?"* *Shota Duck yells back "Just wing it"* "That was uncalled for, you smelly man" *Shota Duck yells in background "Really? Smelly man?"* I wipe away my silent tears as I grip Alan's V-neck collared shirt "Woah, is this Gucci brand?" I say with an impressed look on my face Alan flicks his cigar away, cracking his knuckles as he prepares to fight Suddenly, Alan's cellphone rings He reaches his hand into his pocket, pulling out an old Nokia brand brick phone He has a sudden expression of shock on his face as he answered the phone "Grandma, now is not the time!" He says loudly Alan bickers with his Grandmother on the phone for a good 30 minutes as we stand there, watching him "Fine, I'll do my laundry when I get home" Alan says as he hangs up the phone "You good?" Shota Duck says as he finishes filing his nails Not fingernails, but the nails in his hickory baseball bat, which he had pulled from thin air "Can we just settle this over a game of chess?" says Alan as he takes another cigar out of his pocket "Sure" I respond as we head back into the Denny's, forgetting our dinner date for two at Femboy Hooters And thus begins the story of Shota Duck, Chute, and Alan who just wanted some Denny's (TL:DR Chute Mi returns to his position of leadership in Golden Dawn, Amarr signs a prot with Golden Dawn, Coal Mines signs a MDoAP with Golden Dawn, Black Skies signs an ODP with Golden Dawn, and Golden Dawn declares it's existence) (Note: The post revolves around Alan since the other treaties are just carry-overs from Kinmoza, and Shota Duck is getting sick of watching me write this all in a vc) I'll write a novel about this for 20mil Havgle and Hime would downvote this That's kinda cringe bro

Congrats on peace and a well fought war from Panth and Co.

That was fun. btw... YOU HAVE NOW BEEN FLOODED WITH WATER

‘Twas fun y’all!

Thank you, to all allies who backed us up in this war! ❤️ I'd also like to say thanks to Fake TJ, Arrgh and BS for a good sportsmanship during this war, it was a pleasure to fight you guys! ❤️

Golden Phoenix Coalition > Any other bad Golden Micro.

What a fall from grace you lose BSK and gain chute. RIP any hope of Golden Dawn becoming a good alliance.

That's okay, you'll never amount to anything where I'll need to care about yours anyway.

Maybe if you weren't all so bad at your jobs, it would have survived. Lmao

@Phoenyx If you want to get into the business of finding leaks and writing news, join a news group. Maybe they can teach you how you should and shouldn't handle stuff like this. Also, pro tip, there is much much more interesting stuff that happens than this. What you are currently babbling about is something that is not only irrelevant and boring, but a common occurrence. So, in essence, you are telling us about something none of us can bother to give 2 shits about. Something interesting I remember was the whole Forest scandal. Now THAT was some interesting shit. Go do that, learn from people like Arctic, and come back when you have an interesting and intriguing story to present.

-Laugh reacts someone using a player's correct pronoun "WhEn HaVE i EvER BeEn TRanSPhObIC!?!?!?"

I feel like its moreso that the current rules have to be enforced a lot more, though the idea of a more active moderation hand isn't the worst. Hate speech is already against the rules, but we have nations able to drop homophobic and transphobic insults and only walk away with a warn. Stuff like that is only going to drive away minority groups from the game, and likely make this even more a 4chan cesspit without community and moderative intervention

Perfection

Okay, bub, you do realize you're making a scene over a 0 point warn? Because that's the way to turn it into a one-pointer. I mean, the warn specifically said that's what the 'like' button is for. And yeah, sometimes I want to give something poetic two upvotes too, but it's just not a thing. ...I'm contributing to the discussion which this clearly is, so rather than give me a warn for 'non-discussion forum' (again) mods please move this to the standard moderation support section kthx

Meanwhile, Rose: Can't say I'm complaining, considering. Good luck with, uh, all that!

No. Its because you are a totally irrelevant person. Have you any idea what you are asking? You're asking for the leader of a major alliance to leak confidential talks that he had with another alliance leader. Should he leak this, this therefore means that other alliance leaders will be less inclined to speak to him, because they have no guarantee that what they say will not end up on the forums. No serious alliance leader would ever consider revealing these things to a general member not even in his own alliance (except a certain ex-leader of TCW ). These backroom conversations are none of your business. No doubt it would be interesting to know all these things, and no doubt it would be beneficial to Quack's cause, as further evidence of what we already know. But just because you want it, doesn't mean you will get it, because ultimately, its none of your business. Your job is to fight wars for your alliance (which you have failed to do, I do hope you're on the No Pixel Order list) -- not to engage in pointless "investigation", weeks after the war comes to an end. What do you hope to achieve? For the anti-quack coalition to say "oh, sorry, yes, we were going to attack Quack"? That's water under the bridge -- come the end of the NAP in April, there will be new tensions, and new conflicts as the cycle goes on and on. We may even find ourselves fighting alongside the same people we were bitterly arguing with just a few months prior. Seeking proof involves the ability to admit you are wrong.

First point is a straw man, you should not need to ask what defines hate speech because it is pretty apparent and well defined by virtually every Discord, game, workplace, etc. They can defend themselves to Alex and the moderators in direct messages, the ban merely prevents them from participating with the rest of the community on its official jurisdictions, not even unofficial alliance servers, news servers, etc. The game, Discord, and forums all share rules on hate speech, OOC harassment, etc. In my post I tried to make it explicitly clear that it should not apply to all bans, instead only to bans for the more egregious actions, which are mutually enforced between all platforms. This is different than someone being banned from the game for having multis and then being barred from the Discord and OWF, which is not what I am advocating.

Ayy Lmao

Don't tell him our secrets....we all just short reply to him so he spends 20+ min per response, wasting his time on a useless matter

There should be a crossover between the game, the official Discord, and the official forum in some capacity. If someone is banned from any platform for OOC, hate speech, basically any extreme violation of that sort, so should they be banned from the other platforms to root it from the game as much as reasonably possible, since moderating other unofficial servers is too delicate. The punishments for these violations, would also need to be revisited, because a 1/9 warn on the forums for hate speech is frankly not enough.

If you doxx someone you should be outright banned, in terms of OOC that's an immediate and direct risk to their safety. That's not a slap on the wrist kinda thing, that's a smite with hellfire kinda thing

Hard disagree. Doxxing is such an egregious move that the community should band together across political lines to drive that person from the game. A moderation strike is nowhere near enough.

So I think rule 1 is interesting but, it's hard and needs to be done with care. There are things in this game that don't allign with community guidelines that do happen in discord servers. What happens if a sever has an NSFW channel. It would go straight agaisnt all pnw guidelines. What if a member says [leader of generic alliance] is retarded. Because he thinks this person is a bad leader. What if someone makes a suicide joke and thinks it should be reported. In short I think this is a tool that allows a lot of power, and it will be used by potty people for generic strikes that Noo-ne wants and there will be so many gray areas it's not even funny. Point three is interesting and generally not bad. Once again I would be carefull though. Would for example an alliance of only 18+ people be allowed or do you not want this? I personally do not know a single alliance in this game that officially has this rule, but I have seen alliances in other games that do. Is this bad or not, would 5his constitute an ooc attack.

Can't beat that Belgian Waffle Slam®. Shame I got some of the syrup on my v-neck... Grandma knitted it for me just recently........

eh I could be less worried about their prot choice the biggest failing is their choice of leadership.Anyways I hope you find a good alliance.

and to top that off they broke a Rose Prot lmaoo

Just my take on this, he isn't saying what he did wasn't against the rules. He is saying it's unfair that the rules were suddenly enforced on him when they are never enforced on anyone else. There is a philosophical argument to be made here, which I have heard in the terms: "White man is caught speeding but let off the hook. A black man on the same road is caught speeding and is given a ticket." On one hand, the black man was still speeding. On the other, it's unfair that the white man is able to avoid a ticket. Thats my quick take on it. The RL reference is not meant to be political, just to help illustrate what Im saying.

Sending the 20mil right away! Also tl;dr please oh wait nvm found it

$20,000,000? Link your paypal.

Jack, you know you should have merged into Oceania... Merging into such a pitiful alliance like TCM is disappointing and sad.

My thread got a bit of everyones attention, don't understate my accomplishments. Smh. /s

Goodnight, sweet prince, and may flights of ATF agents sing thee to thy rest

I have no clue what I just read, but I love it.

Ah, but Tyrion isn't the one that made the active decision that started the open warfare. His passive (and completely understandable and justified mind you, assuming he was the one approached and not the instigator) plotting against Quack, whether or not it existed, is something that fundamentally required a public counter-narrative to be presented. If he hadn't posted a counternarrative and just ignored or went "it's a secret" about it, those would have had no other possible interpretation other than a confirmation. Since Tyrion knows this, and more importantly his interests are best and most responsibly served by a denial, chose to actively deny. (That his allies contradicted that denial isn't really important in this instance since I'm talking about what I suspect Tyrion's decision making process included, and the contradictions happened post facto.) Tyrion's counter-narrative is completely understandable and exactly what a responsible leader should have done in his position. Whether it is lying, deceiving or not isn't important ethically on the level he's playing at, since he most definitely has a higher responsibility, which is to the security and well-being of his subordinates. If one's rivals approach with a deal to take down a threat, then cooperation is the only responsible option... and ensuring both the success and mutual benefit of the venture is the critical duty of a leader in order to maintain their alliance's political and strategic security. So, yeah, I say he lied. Liar liar pants on fire. Even so, I do not fault him for that, since it was absolutely the right thing for him to do, strategically and ethically. Ethics do change when you have higher responsibilities. Leaders do not have the luxury of arbitrary and absolutist philosophy like you and I do. I know that's not a happy statement to hear, I certainly didn't like saying it, but that doesn't make it not a very real and unfortunate reality. But, consider stuff like running a red light. You're not allowed to do it... but police officers are allowed to. And it would be unethical for you to run a red light in virtually all circumstances... but it is unethical for a police officer not to on a regular basis. It's the same here: It's unethical for you or I to lie in most circumstances (the old "nazi looking for a jew in your attic" oversimplification notwithstanding), but it would indeed be unethical for someone in Tyrion's position, or Partisan's position for that matter, to not lie when doing so serves their alliances' interests. (Of course, making sacrifices for ideological reasons is also both possible and laudable, at least when those bearing the brunt of the costs agree with that ideology. I personally support Partisan's efforts to avoid being a hegemon, even... nay, ESPECIALLY when those efforts resulted in being at the bottom of a dogpile. But that's just my own personal opinion, and I suspect Tyrion's members would not have shared that opinion.) TL;DR: Sometimes alliance leaders lie. That doesn't make them bad, though. The rest of us just have to deal with it. I think most people understand that without even saying, and your failing to recognize that is a big part of what's making people annoyed with you.

You don't know much at all. You just pretend you do. Or you've deluded yourself into thinking you do.

Right, you trust Tyrion because you like his style of questions and thus you take his statements at face value without applying the same standard of scrutiny to them as you do with literally anyone else's statements. The fact that you disagree with and therefore scrutinize the statements Tyrion makes which you don't like is just further evidence of your intense and knowing bias. This is all evidence which you have helpfully provided your own dang self. Partisan actually has not merely "shown interest in" but in fact HAS done his due diligence and research on the subject, and in an intellectually honest and responsible manner to boot. Why you persist in believing such heinously inaccurate things about him is beyond me, really, since there's ample evidence to show that he has indeed looked very deeply into the matter. And since you'll ask, despite it being blatantly obvious, the evidence is that he's still a leader of a major bloc which has not fired him, expelled his alliance, nor disbanded. Which is what any halfway competent leader would do in the face of such an extraordinary failure on the part of another leader. Since they haven't, he must therefore have not failed so completely as you insist he has. What you're neglecting, despite being told countless times and being shown a mountain of evidence in support of, is that unlike yourself, Partisan is an alliance leader. Which means that he both needs to be and in fact is responsible in his FA efforts, which includes both diligently and thoroughly investigating threats against the alliance as well as keeping the results of his efforts confidential. Confidential, by the way, mostly means keeping the evidence, sources of evidence, reasoning, and conclusions secret from irrelevant parties that scream victory from the rooftops and dump logs every time someone tells them something privately. If Partisan had indeed just taken the Boyce rumors at face value and flatly declared war without following up nor considering what such a major action would entail, the entire bloc would have fired him. From a cannon. We didn't, since he DID do his research, he DID follow up, and brought the investigation to his peers for appraisal and deliberation. They deliberated, determined it was actionable, and took the appropriate actions. I can tell you this for certain because I AM privy to a fair chunk of that investigation. Yep, I said it: That info is there, I've got it up on my screen now, but I'm not going to give it to you nor will anyone else because it was given to us with the expectation of remaining confidential. So, by all means feel free to continue faffing about, screaming for evidence and things to proudly leak for your own amusement. We'll be over here, actually trying to be intellectually honest and trustworthy, and actually getting that evidence. Do consider joining us when you grow up.

GG

What

Thank you for your interpretation services for the elderly!