Shiho Nishizumi

There's the likes of loot one billion, which do take more effort to get. 75% was a generous estimation regardless.

"Word" and "reports" don't really outline much, y'know. The last series of screenshots are one from IQ times (again, any and all plans regarding IQ died when IQ publicly disbanded), one from June which was... Thrax showing skepticism about your split? A blacked out one which basically means it could've been forged by anyone. And then a Nizam quote saying that hitting you in the middle of this war would've been idiocy (which it would've, ftr). Not exactly the most steadfast bits. That speaks louder than I think you realize. I wouldn't say many have been presented as opinions, per se. Assuming it's a personal "you", I haven't really said much for weeks if not months now. I just felt the need to make a sarcastic remark the page prior. As for tiringsome, I meant it in general in a two-way street. I understand for the former (where pleasing may be concerned). There's a reason why I haven't said much. I've already said much of what I had in mind, and invariably been met with silence after a while. I see no purpose in repeating it to death. As for the rest of your sentence, that's mildly entertaining. Let's just put it that way.

@Shadowthrone You saying that you told others is as worthless as telling us that an undisclosed person passed you the supposed info, no matter how much you may repeat it. Just like how you haven't, nor will be persuaded by what Nizam says, no matter how much she repeats it. Dio's post wasn't misconstrued as being the backbone for the CB. It was presented as such. It was after the heavy scrutiny they received that we started hearing of the legendary anon source, your post, and "collusion". As for Buo's quote... That doesn't contradict what I said. I said that not disclosing means that it has it's own set of consequences. I didn't think I'd need to be so painfully obvious about it, but that means people won't believe it. Buo was saying he didn't care whether Kriegs believed him or not on his Vanguard leak as a result of his non disclosure. The difference between both is, though, Buo isn't devoting his daily time to convince people on the OWF of his leak being legit. You on the other hand, are still arguing ad nauseam on a topic that had substance to be argued on for two weeks max, not two months. Another difference is that Buo plainly accepts the consequence of his non disclosure (to be fair, it's not a particularly harsh penalty), while you don't and feel the need to, again, discuss about this two months after the fact because you want to have your cake and eat it too.

The early war lag was quite bad for both ways. A bunch of people on our side missed their wardecs and/or plane buys as a result as well. It was like that for a week or two until someone fixed the code. Then achievements were added and it's gone to shit again. Idk about you, but I'd much rather have a functioning game than some "achievements" of which a solid 75% can be unlocked by basically anyone.

It's in relation to the logs that were actually presented. Obviously, I can't say a thing regarding the ones that were not disclosed. I can't even tell whether they exist or not. As such, I default to "didn't happen", in the "logs or didn't happen" question. Simply because otherwise anyone can declare on anyone by claiming stuff without ever reasonably backing it up. And before my point gets misconstrued, I'm not saying you must disclose them. I'm saying that not doing so carries it's own set of consequences.

Yes. I guess I should've been clearer on my redaction.

Except the constant flood of daily reinforcements kept the people that were afloat busy for the duration that that was happening. Chaos' recovery was neither complete, nor as fast paced as you seem to think it might've been. And that doesn't change the fact that our prospect before the entire thing wasn't looking particularly appealing. That BK and friends folded as badly as they did came as much of a surprise to us as it might have to you. They weren't really amused by the looting. Soup in particular had some things to say about that. Feeding your enemy resources is never a good idea, and I'm quite sure that SK had it's ear pulled in private the same way Polaris did for their own bank being looted. No it wasn't. Especially given the examples of mass-sold infra in this war. As for the latter half of your sentence, I presume you mean Surf's Up? I'm positive they would've kept that show going for a little bit longer than it did. The real coincidence is you joining in the benefit of your former ally, with screenshots from even earlier than May, to declare on the same old alliances you've historically fought, and to reinforce the patterns of the old. I'm aware of the reasons cited. I don't particularly care for them. Both because of the actions themselves speaking louder than the written text, and because Keshav already said that those logs were gathered after the fact, and for the purpose of conveying that you didn't trust TKR, more than being the CB itself. Since I'm already posting, your personal ties narrative is inherently flawed. If our ties, assuming they existed, were as strong as you claim them to be, we wouldn't have needed to wait for a log to drop for us to hit BK. One that dropped in the middle of our own war, at that. One that dropped after BK and friends tried to butt in several times, and showed clear hostile intent, as SRD did point out a while back. We would've hit them outright. That war, no matter it's nature, also starkly contrasts the behaviour on your end, one which was of "we won't fight each other because it'd be boring". Even though you were happy to hit Grumpy and Guardian in spite of the "nothing personal" pretense. In hindsight, it's all quite obvious. Either way, I'm not one to believe in coincidences to that degree. I'm certain you aren't either. Unfortunately for you, the "coincidences" on your side are far more numerous, and have plenty less counter examples to compensate for them. I'm positive that you're aware of that, hence why you need to try to claim that we're doing the stuff that you yourselves are doing. It is a way to cover your own tracks after all.

I'm certain that it was beneficial for Chaos to preempt BK at half strength and virtually no spies, yes. I'm also positive that they very much appreciated getting looted the way to hell and back. Especially SK.

@Yuri Is that 416?

I thought I was reading a quote from Karl Marx for a moment.

The moment it became convenient to do so.

That effort started after your entry, not before. We had heard stuff from Citadel, but as evident it never materialized. Camelot's reports were unknown to us. Yeah, I'm not saying that FR was actually doing much fighting, just that I didn't expect them to have peaced out. TFP I didn't bother mentioning because their withdrawal was to be expected, given their ties. Why would you be worthy of being hit, at that point of time? BK got hit because ultimately, they were the ones who drew up the plans. We are not at fault for any risks you may have incurred on yourselves for interfering. I don't think anyone was calling you that at the time. Personally, I thought that you were simply going to go the route of making a mint as KTGH did during Knightfall. More power to you if you had gone that route. War profiteering is neat. Eeeh. BK definitely has more than enough money to throw around if needed be. Morale is a fair point to argue, but I think that having the entirety of N$O in would have gotten that up by a fair bit. It is a much different prospect. That wouldn't need to be the motivation though. We were expecting the war to go for a month and a half or two, simply because that's part and parcel with them. If it had been up to us, it'd have been a month and then peace. The sooner we could have ended our cooperation with Chaos, the better. That was mutual. Well, Nizam already cleared up about Akuryo, but I guess a bit too late. And BK/tCW were the first ones who said anything about imposing "harsh terms" actually. So if you've got a bone to pick about those, look at those beside you. That was not the intent of the war. The intent for it was to preempt a threat that we deemed was imminent. Or rather, try to. How the war ended up panning out in that first week or so, was as much of a surprise to us as it might have been of a shock to you. Perceptions and realities differ. That's all I'll say about that.

Numbers, especially where the lower tier is concerned. The first problem with that, is the volume of quitters. We never expected it to get to that point to begin with. Citadel getting out was not seen as likely, Camelot we knew for a fact would go until the end. We didn't expect any of the main Cov alliances to quit either. FR honestly came as bit of a shock to me. Either way, that's still a sizable contingent by itself. A NAP would've been unlikely. And excuse me if I am misunderstanding it, but how can they reenter a conflict that is finalized? If everyone else had peaced out by then, and the BK and tCW themselves get peace, then that's a war done and over with. It'd have no bearing in a subsequent conflict with N$O as a binding term. Spin who as being huggers? I'll assume you're talking about N$O being hit by us. I actually had some bullet points covering the different reasons why such an scenario was unfeasible, but the fricky quote saving system decided to save a different quote and kill all of it. Hence my abridged response to Odin. Either way, BK and co.'s motivation under such a situation would've been, in their perspective, getting even with us. Us being engaged with you would simply act as a window for them to do so. As a general statement, sure. The problem with this situation is, well, how everything developed. And it's what ensued into pages and pages of discussion.

Attacking N$O unprovoked would've made no sense, either during this war or shortly after it. It also assumes that we had either the intent or capacity to do so. Neither existed. And even if we did, what'd the end result be? It'd be getting hit by BK and N$O at the same time. As you yourself put it, one doesn't need to be exactly smart to figure that out. For some reason, people suddenly forget that this game can indeed go for longer than 2-3 months, when the theoretical scenario of KERCHTOG going berserk over the rest of the game pops up. They act as if there would have been absolutely no consequences to such a maneuver. Which is amusing, given the simultaneous boasts about the current war lasting until the end of times/in perpetuity.