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The Chaotic Whale Accords Preamble: The Commonwealth and Terminus Est come together to forge a new treaty of Mutual Defence and Optional Aggression. Article I: The Commonwealth and Terminus Est, pledge never to engage in hostile acts against the other. Article II: Should either party come under attack, the other shall come to their aid. Article III: Both parties agree to share any information pertaining to the security of the other, should they receive such Intel. Article IV: Both parties reserve the right to join one another in offensive operations at their discretion. Article V: Should either party wish to commit heresy against the Dark Gods and cancel this agreement, they shall provide 72 hours notice before this treaty’s cancellation comes into effect. Signed for The Commonwealth Prime Minister: Sphinx Chief of Staff: Purplemoon/Yui Minister of Finance: Christian Dahl Minister of Foreign Affairs: Purplemoon/Yui Minister of Internal Affairs: Lionstar Marshal of The Commonwealth: RightHonorable Minister of Machines: Haris Minister of Growth: Skepta Deputy Ministers of Finance: Edgeworth, LukeTP, Putmir Vladin Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs: Aesir Deputy Ministers of Defense: Pericles, Reuben, Lee II Deputy Minister of Machines: Malleator Deputy Minister of Growth: Dillon I Advisors Anti-Social Evil Bastard: Who Me Drunk Alex Jones: Kalev60 Minion Aficionado: Julian Rederic Gray Chief Viking: Sven Shieldmaker El Presidente: Don Juan Signed for Terminus Est Warmaster: Boyce the Great Primarch: DragonK Dark Apostle: Master Antony

As opposed to the NPO hierarchy of treaties which is NAP < ODOAP < MDP < MDoAP <MDAP < BK

IQ be like

Nation - https://politicsandwar.com/nation/id=6 War Activity - https://politicsandwar.com/nation/war/timeline/war=592904 This does not seem to be a real war. Alex declared ordinary war against the nation, Neantasia, who at the time had a far superior ground and air force. It is worth mentioning that Neantasia is currently waring few members of "Gentlemens Gaming and Fisticuffs Union". Neantasia got countered by 2 of them but his last defensive slot got filled by a weak, 2 city nation, who seems to have had no plans of waring him other than taking his last defensive slot. Its worth mentioning that both nation has been sitting at 12 MAPs and have not done a single attack against each other which leads me to believe that Alex and Neantasia are plotting together.

Immortals are doing great! We've gotten most of IQ below 50% aircraft in their non-VM nations. Well done friends!

All I'm saying is IQ has been dropped below 50% planes! The rest is up for your interpretation! Thank you for your concern!

>People literally saying "I donated therefore do not remove this feature I like" >People literally changing the game via scripting and bending every rule possible just so they can say "It's technically not cheating" >People comparing baseball to a proletariat struggle against 'the whales who own all the capital' @Alex this thread is the perfect example of blackmail, begging, threatening, crying, and "totally-not-cheating" all wrapped up into a neat little package. How many game rules will be bent over backwards before you take a hard-line stance against cheaters who take advantage of loopholes and technicalities? We've mathematically already shown how baseball can quintuple a nation's natural income. How is it fair that people who hasn't even built their nation up can make more money than most nations in the game by simply spamming a cookie clicker? The debate is dead at this point, there is no further logic to draw out. All that's left is emotional appeals, threats, and blackmail. I hope you see the writing on the wall this time but this is the 10th thread about baseball in the past couple of months, so I'm beginning to lose hope.

Blockading doesn't even make sense for an argument. Maybe if a nation was eating a ton of nukes, missiles, and/or air bombings. At best people in port cities would be hiding in shelters from ocean bombardment. A navy surrounding a nation wouldn't stop the people in the nation from working and going to entertainment. Cities usually hike up tax rates to pay for stadiums being built and such so sports teams use them, which then people go to, it increases economical commerce in that region if it's popular, which then leads to gains from taxing. In this case you can assume the nation itself is the investor. I don't mind the rest of the game, as fighting can be fun, but baseball is what I like. I didn't have any alliance pay to build it up, and I still invest in it out of my own expense. The only thing I ever got from an alliance was 11 cities. I play other games and do other things with my time, and baseball is one reason I don't just ignore PW or effectively become a permabot for an AA.

Baseball rewards activity and even has generated some degree of cooperation between warring alliances. I really don't see it as game breaking at all. What it's brought in is only a small fraction of total global economic output.

Ok gooner

Two major complaints here: A few hours isn't instant. It takes a lot of time and people do still have to work for it if they want it. If you actually saw that tool while the page was up, you'd have seen that it wasn't botting. All it does is make the button bigger and lets you refresh the page the page by clicking the button. You still have to click the button, which makes it within game rules, this tool only makes it easier to do that with. Unless someone is way over 1500 games/day (which is about the max I've seen people really be able to do) or reaching those levels every day, there's really no reason to suspect botting. Most people don't get anywhere near either of those most days because it is so time intensive to do so and there's little incentive to spend time on it much beyond that because of the changes Alex made.

Well, in my opinion, this seems to be more of a political issue than anything. Some alliances rely on baseball to be competitive, and some don't, and I think this data shows how impactful baseball can be on gameplay. 3 alliances (NPO, GPWC, GOONS) have generated ~$24 billion in-game currency.

To contribute to this discussion in a transparent way, here is the current data on money generated from baseball. Of interest is the net amounts - total earned less total invested. I've collected the data by nation and by alliance. Notably, here's a graph showing the income generated from baseball per alliance. Attached is an excel sheet with this graph as well as the raw data. Here are a few summary statistics: baseball_data.csv

This is hilarious for a lot of reasons. Intended or not: I chuckled!

Issue: Baseball is a terrible sport and current game mechanics encourage our children to participate in it. This innocent looking mini-game is, in fact, a gateway to methamphetamine use, carpal tunnel syndrome and is probably secretly responsible for our ongoing 7 month global war. Solution: Replace Baseball with Hockey, a much better sport. Hockey is simultaneously a great physical feat and a more wholesome sport, where players with excessive egos don't usually last. 7 month global wars can instead be replaced with 20 second fist fights, after which all participants will be applauded. Further solutions will need to be found for solving the methamphetamine and carpal tunnel issues.

Baseball directly rewards committing activity and time to the game, and as Alex has stated before the majority of the community as he determined does not want it to be further nerfed or removed. It was pretty busted when Galerion and JasperFrost were making 100m+ a day from it sure, but the 1k a day game limit puts it in line with moderate trading and far below any competent level of raiding in terms of how much money you can make.

Nope not game breaking at all as I've already explained. The evidence suggest thus far that getting the majority of 1500 Nations to do anything is a miracle in itself let alone have them all play a 1000 games of baseball. Your figures are all hypothetical, and those hypothetical numbers can be matched by the other 1500 Nations and both sets of Nations make the same. It's completely balanced. You keep saying it's not a suggestion based on political bias, and then constantly throw in your bias. Goons, NPO 20 cities, Opus dei member counts. There is plenty of mechanical imbalances across the game, baseball isnt one. Why dont you work on suggestions to fix unbalanced mechanics, which would be better spent effort than trying to nerf your political enemies.

You play the rhetorical game and yet deride us for refusing to participate in the bullshit. Our agreement with TLE was still binding, regardless of whether or not you consider the ingame treaty mechanics valid expressions of those agreements. You can tell me what the "facts" are all day, but when I know you are full of shit I couldn't care less. I believe there is a lot more at play than you may be aware of, but suffice it to say I have not felt that TKR have been engaging us in good faith for a little while now.

No one is bending the rules at all. No one's tool is remotely against the rules if we're following Alex's general guideline here: "bots that make the game a bit more convenient (making a withdrawal via a Discord interface rather than an in-game interface, for example) are generally okay, whereas a bot that actually played the game for you (built your cities, declared your wars, whatever) would not be." No one's tool plays the game for them. It's within the rules. I've also talked about your point about the smaller nations playing baseball here. It's already undergone a substantial nerf/overhaul and it was done to prevent a couple of players who likely were using bots to play 10,000 games a day from being able to do so. That happened when Alex put a 1000 game limit of how many games could be played a day before income gets nerfed to 10%. I've just shown here how much time it would actually take to get to the full 1000 games (likely around 4 hours) and Alex showed here how few players do actually get there, using an example of games played on January 21. The rewards aren't too high. It's 4 hours of work to make it to the money earned from selling a credit.

I've played a bunch this week as I'm trying to level my team and had a couple new players. Some money went to tips, including two enemy nations. Most went into the team. I'm historically millions in the hole and even at this pace of play it will take awhile to break even but even that's not true since I've bootstrapped my team most has gone into the team. What hasn't been mentioned is that investment itself is ephemeral. Players retire and you have to do it again, at least every 90 days and generally less. Through the game mechanics much of baseball money is already contained inside of baseball. A large part of what doesn't stay in baseball gets removed from the game via bills or military purchases. How is baseball easier and less honest than raiding inactives? It's not. Resources are worth more and it's a far more durable wealth. This anti-baseball argument is all just a straw man to get a nerf for whales since underdogs can make a little cash on baseball to keep the lights on and stay in the fight. *sighs. Oh the irony

I'm going to need you to do a couple things. First: Learn how to read. Second: Recognize when you're wrong.

It isnt game breaking if the other 1500 Nations also do it. Hence its balanced and equal. No one is disadvantaged by Baseball unless you choose not to play it.

No friend, I was referring to your general disposition and prioritization of ties and relationships. ....so nothing has changed. Got it.

Ah, I see you're once again feigning illiteracy regarding non-chaining clauses. Regardless, you can rest easy now that we actually have an MDAP with BK. Your complaints have been received, and we believe this solution satisfies all of them.

The basic principle of this game is that, aside from a basic activity requirement, clicking buttons does not provide any additional mechanical benefit. Money, resources, and military action points are generated in this game at set intervals. The only way to get ahead of other players is by better planning (optimizing builds), or exploiting the community (trade speculation/arbitrage or raiding/warfare). Baseball flies in the face of every other mechanic in the game that you can just click buttons and magic money into the game. @Alex grow a spine and fix your game.

Baseball is literally the only thing that is balanced and equal in this game.

Think of "baseball" like a "job" if you're too lazy to go to work, you shouldn't make money nor should you complain about "those people make money for working. Remove their jobs! Reduce minimum wage" Meanwhile, Whales (30+ City Nations who make between 20-100+ million per day (without fail) in "income revenue" for doing nothing) are like Stockholders who live off their free dividends' income, which are more money than baseball at zero the work. (Baseball at least takes hours to make the money whales get for doing nothing.) - Sorry for the analogies (I simply really wanted to make the real life comparisons and this thread gave me an apt opportunity to.)

I agree, the aggressor should be banned from the game immediately. This is a high crime

Alex, Who Me is retired, he has plenty of time to spam baseball whilst he looks after his property/IRL commitments. In Who Me's case he's averaged around 585 games a day, something which is entirely achievable, if you spam enough and have time. In the almost 4 years I've known him he's never used, condoned or spoken about botting with the exception of speaking out against them. You're making claims about the character of people without even understanding the context behind them. Ignoring the fact that your making false accusations. You realise the irony of you saying $17 billion is unbalancing the game when you've won more than $25b on Keno in one go, something which takes next to no time compared to spending hours each day grinding for cash in baseball. If GOONS/GPWC have their cash removed then your last few cities should be removed along with 5k land each since that was obviously broken and unbalancing using your logic you outlined above. I have my problems with NPO/GOONS, but those guys don't have the massive number of whales EMC does, Baseball is a part of their economic program to supplement their growth. Even though it'll help us undeniably by having baseball removed, I DO NOT support such an action when it disproportionally affects one part of the community for the benefit of another.

because its actually cool gameplay wise

Honestly, I'd say just increase the nation treasury from 100k to 2 million, else you're practically just increasing the daily login bonus to 2.5 mil.

i'm in favor of replacing baseball with the ability to redeem $2m once a day at any time of the day, which would replace the way you can use baseball under blockade to make some cash for double buys etc (the only cool aspect about baseball)

This pretty much sums up the credibility of your posts. When presented with counterarguments which floor whatever crap you try to push, you revert to a chippy one liner, only to pop up in another thread and do the same dance. Bruce, your side has been a shitshow of both IC and OOC toxicity in every sense of the word, and the game is worse of for it period. Good luck with the war.

1. Notifications get sent when a treasure spawns in your nation. Apparently this isn't something that already happens and I feel like it needs to. 2. City build page that lets you mock-up a city, its infra/land levels, its age, etc. so you can see what kind of incomes you would get from different city builds.

Did I just read SRD complain about growth what is this 2015?? the games economic system is broken as hell on its own, and yous want to have a fit over a sideshow alley mechanic that BOTH sides utilise (for fun and otherwise) and also exploit just to make $ during blockades for e.g? every day I lose more faith in this trashpile/"game" the "community" keeps burning and changing the mechanics/removing them for self serving sh*t get this crying crap about things that are actually left in this game people enjoy and that you haven't burnt to sh*t yet tf outta here /

>Pretty sure I saw one person already literally saying "I'll quit donating if feature I hate isn't removed" >A button size apparently is some crazy hacking problem >Whales salty they can't utterly repress the proles and their sycophants agree. It's a fun little side game that newer players, excluding GPWC because ridiculous numbers, and existing players enjoy on the side. The feature really isn't even the issue here. Apologies if some of us like a little cool off fun on the side of waiting on turns to roll through. I don't really care if the game is nerfed further to be honest, but it's hardly even an issue despite people are making a massive salty deal over. If baseball was so broken, I'd be a big bad blue whale already. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I totally could get behind making it into hockey though instead.

I think that the spirit of the rules as they are phrased already (e.g. "you can post if you have specific evidence to provide regarding the report") is clear enough. In any case, I've updated the phrasing of the rules for now.

This is actually pretty damn hilarious.

That City 1 nation with 0 infra would have to miraculously produce somewhere around 45m to max out their stadium and their team in order to make 22m a day from it. So, unless their alliance is funding that, that's not happening, and I find it a little hard to believe most alliances would fund a nation a baseball team when getting them to 5 cities costs less than half that and benefits the alliance as a whole considerably more. So... a city 1 nation with 0 infra couldn't do it far more likely than not. What is your argument here? As for keno, I personally didn't care to have it removed. The money sink was good, having the ability to win a little cash is fine. But billions? That is what shouldn't even be a possibility. The fact that anyone could make billions of it is beyond ridiculous. With baseball though, no one is making billions and the money you do make is not by chance, you have to work for it. Here's an example breakdown for you with my own nation: Money Invested: $82,497,501.00 | Money Earned: $214,417,005.04 So, in the almost three years I've been playing this game, I've made a grand total of $214,417,005.04 from playing baseball. Most of that is likely from home games because that is predominantly what I do, so I don't often make money in tips playing aways. Because of tipping culture, I generally give about 30% of the original money earned (the 214m) to other players. 30% of that is $64,325,101.51. I've also sunk $82,497,501.00 into the costs of my stadium and players. $214,417,005.04 - $82,497,501.00 - $64,325,101.51 = $67,594,402.53 $67.6 million over 3 years. And hours of time sunk into this game to get it. That's your concern?

Unfortunately for you, the randomness is actually what makes their argument true. The randomness meant that Keno and Dice were money sinks, even if a few individuals got lucky, it could not be reliably expected to generate more than it earns. While big headlines like EMs 25bn win make you think Keno was gamebreaking, you forget that 30bn was removed from the game by various people playing Keno in the time it took that happen. Baseball however is just straight up creating money from nothing. The only people who take serious issue with it are those who wanted it (and baseball) all removed, or those who like baseball and hate that these other unnecessary games had more actual benefit to the game than their money generating button. I don't care if only 3 people make their 22-25m/day from it. It shouldn't be possible to begin with. I have to have 2.5k infra with ITC and my 25 cities to even reach that level of income. There is no sane reason a 2 minute old City 1 should be able to do it with 0 infra by clicking a button. That nobody actually does that is irrelevant. It shouldn't even be a possibility.

This is rich considering the events which have transpired since early November. Please continue being a jester and amusing everyone with such humorous tidbits of logic and reasoning.

Sounds about right. Just remember that the TKR hierarchy of treaties is ODoAP > NAP > MDP and things should make more sense going forward.

This.

An in-game treaty has nothing to do with the diplomatic realities. As I've tried to explain to y'all, TLE had a valid option to enter defensively through their previous treaty to Pantheon (I believe that treaty was since cancelled/expired) and Schrute Farms. I don't believe they entered until Pantheon was hit AND countered by other alliances, representing an expansion of the war. This chain of events constitutes a valid defensive entry coherent with adherence to a NAP in-game treaty notwithstanding and frankly irrelevant. If y'all want to contest TLE's CB, then I suggest actually discussing their intent because that is what you're trying to get. I've known them to be nice people, but in order to be coherent with treaty definitions the accusation you're looking to make is not of breaking a NAP but acting in bad faith. I'm willing to have that conversation, and explain positions there, but this sound-bite propaganda bits aren't productive for constructing arguments on this stage. I mean this with all the respect towards yourself and your alliance. I just hope that we can keep our discourse organized, on-task and within set conventions albeit perhaps that's too high of a standard for all of us. In this war, NPO has: - Hit OFA (their coalition ally who later disbanded for "beiging too much") - Participated in the circumstances that resulted in CU's disbandment - Blitzed/Aid a blitz on TFP when Quichwe got mad at Roq for threatening moderation over a treasure deal - Aided allies who systematically hit uninvolved protectorates, including AD, CC, HA, and an assortment of previous alliances who had already been months at war. AD and CC both disbanded and/or merged. - Conspired to hit their allies in T$/HS - Hit OWR/CTO who wished to be peaced out - Actively extended the war to make people quit the opposing coalition, delete nations and have alliances disband -------- Call your actions what you will, but you don't have much ground to stand on.

It's blatantly obvious many are boting it and no surprises to find those who defend it are from the most suspect alliances. I cancelled my subscription because of this crap. .

1) It literally changes a button size. We'll happily stop using it if @Alextells us it's against the rules, but seriously all it does is change the button. That's it. 2) We're embargoing Noctis because he doesn't pay tips. If "embargoing nations who try to mess you out of money" is against the rules now, I guess I missed that update?? "goons admitted to making 1billion a day in a thread that doesn't exist" is definitely the finest form of proof ever offered on this site.

@Alex I disagree with any further changes based on political vendettas. There is a lot of players who enjoy baseball and as you have proven that the majority, via surveys etc, are okay with it how it is.

Who cares what Epi has to say anyways? The Immortals are wrecking folks like a boss! o/ His holiness Pontifex Atomicus commends you!