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Just have t$ make a post. That usually generates 2-80 pages of engagement.

Heung Shing Corporation is an alliance in which a majority of its members are from Hong Kong. As Hongkongers, we are proud of our own culture and would like to share and promote it to the whole Orbis. After our first year in the Orbis, we've decided to declare our existence in the Orbis. (some of you may have interacted with us before though) Thank you to those who have assisted us in the past, now, or in the future. Apart from declaring our existence, we would like to announce the activity that we will be holding. We have been thinking for a long time: what activity can promote our own culture and be able to let the whole Orbis join? We figured it out recently. That is the public examination. Why public examination? You may ask. Well, as public examinations take quite an important place for us, Unlike the US, we do not have any high schools; we complete our secondary education in the same school. After six years of studying in secondary school, we have to take a public examination called the Diploma of Secondary Education (DSE). The result of the DSE determines whether we can continue our studies at the university, as most jobs in Hong Kong require applicants to have a bachelor's degree, having a good result in DSE becomes important for us. Therefore, we are going to hold a (unprofessional) public examination called the Heung Shing Certificate of Education Examination (HSCEE). Wait a minute, why CEE but not DSE? The answer is simple, CEE is kind of like the predecessor of the DSE, but that is another story. All nations in the Orbis are welcomed to join the HSCEE. By joining HSCEE, you will have the chance to experience another kind of Hong Kong culture that you may never have the chance to experience even you visit Hong Kong! There will be total of 8 subjects that you are able to choose, they are: 1. In-game Mechanics and Alliance Studies (unfortunately you are only to take paper 1) 2. Hong Kong Studies 3. Mathematics 4. Advanced Mathematics 5. General Science 6. Geography 7. World History 8. Information and Communication Technology The difficulty of most of them are F3-level in Hong Kong, while some of them are F6-level The following link is the Instructions to Applicants https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Dd_ZDsFQlh6bRTJ3AktGNJXWBfgE9XZ1/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=104762375839714395710&rtpof=true&sd=true The following link is the registration form for HSCEE, I look forward to seeing you in the examination room. https://forms.gle/R6p3P3bdvP4gVGCF6 Please feel free to contact us should you have any questions

For those unaware, baseball has several issues in terms of balancing with respect to the game. When used casually it is not disruptive, however there are some who do not use baseball casually. Here are the main talking points There are players bringing in over 8M a day playing baseball (240M per month) These high end players largely use bot assisted tools Recent game disruption (serve crashing) was a result of these tools. Some other points to note: Baseball is heavily used by some alliances as part of the military strategy for funding nations in blockade, or otherwise down and out in a war. I expect them to have a heavy protesting presence here. Baseball is not intended to be a core, or necessary mechanic in the game. In our solutions to how to address Baseball problems is that we don't want to burden the players who want nothing to do with baseball to have be essential to growth. An early solution to this was a proposed daily 5M cap that was much easier to reach. 5M per day is 10x the normal max login bonus, 10% of a whales income, over double a newish players income, and would be the largest single source of revenue outside of lucky raids. Anyone who didn't play baseball for this 5M would fall behind easily. Baseball is proposed to have the following changes: Daily revenue from baseball is capped at $1M Players age rate is reduced by 25% (retire more slowly) Revenue from baseball is increased 25% (makes getting to the $1M easier) If you're largely against these changes, please suggest an alternative that follows the concept of not making baseball a pivotal part of the game for income. I'm open to other ideas, but not open to leaving things as is. Baseball has become a growing issue that has more and more been met with a "Lets get rid of it" response. The idea is to avoid that, so a change needs to happen or it'll just go away at this point.

BaseBall is pointless and useless, if Alex never planned this to be counted as a main part of the game there is no point to having it at all. Just remove the game entirely because if you only nerf it, the discussion will come back again. New players don’t actually play baseball and only a specific amount of old players who abused the old baseball system still use it to this day. You aren’t going to have activity drop from people not playing baseball. Those who actually put time and effort into the game are usually playing the markets and making way more profit there, those who make profit on baseball is usually using a bot since if you actually spend 24 hours on PNW, on your computer, you would know playing the market is way more profitable than baseball is. So my point is remove baseball entirely or make it only for cosmetics.

I am convinced that a) You secretly love TKR with how obsessed you are with us. b) You absolutely can’t read. c) You should go outside and touch some grass. It might be good for your obsession with TKR and it’s members. The “bot” that you claim people are using is a script that keeps tracks of tips and requires a click for every single game played. I’ve played thousands of games with Whome since i’ve joined TKR. The “bot” you are referring to seems to malfunction every time Whome has go to the bathroom or let the dog out or do something around the house. Almost like *gasp*. It’s a person clicking the button. If you’re gonna accuse someone of cheating, come with some proof. Baseball has a healthy cross alliance community going on here in Orbis that encourages people to get to know each other through playing a feature in the game. The baseball community reports cheaters, cheaters get banned. Put a hard cap on if you must but removing baseball would be needlessly destroying a community of people in this game becuase a few people don’t understand what is actually happening.

Take your TKR hate boner someplace else, Mayor, so we can refocus to the topic on hand, please.

I click the button for every game I play. I have been playing this game for 2320 days, that's over 6 years. Most people would say I should have many more cities than I do for the time I have been playing. You really are a terrible troll. Over the life time of my nation I have averaged playing 681 games per day. That really isn't all that much and I click the button for every one of them. No bots or cheating involved so I would suggest that you learn how baseball works before you accuse people of cheating. It must be exhausting being in an alliance with you.

Limiting baseball to 1m a day would make nearly nobody play baseball for the profit, and the only remaining baseball players would just be playing it to get money during blockades. As an alternative suggestion: Make home games unplayable above 250 games per day, and away games give no money, ever. Make baseball unplayable during blockades. With 250 games per day, the host player would make an average of 5.2m per day, which is 3.6m after tips. 3.6m is only a significant amount to newer players, and getting 3.6m in exchange for doing 250 baseball games seems like a reasonable amount of effort put into it, as another mechanic to engage new players and let everyone else spend some time for a very minor income boost. Capping games to 250 limits to the amount of money generated: It's just not possible to generate 6m+ a day, and people who do away games are going to have less partners to do home games with, so they won't be able to make as much money and the money they're making is just tips from money other people generated. On scripts: every player using them is obviously not ideal, but the usage of them is needed to make baseball playable to a reasonable level. For those who aren't aware, the current scripts have two major functions: You don't have to refresh the page to keep playing baseball and can instead just press the play game button at the same spot whenever you find a game, meaning you can keep clicking in the same spot (except for captchas, which you still have to do manually). You still have to manually click, it's not an automatic baseball script that plays the game for you. Keeping track of how much you owe other people or how much other people owe you with the community standard 30% tip rate, where the home player pays the away player 30% of the profits. Having to not refresh the page every time you play baseball should be integrated into the base game, so a script isn't required and all players are on even footing. Ideally, an adjustable tip rate should be added to the base game with a 30% default, but that one can remain as a script, since it's not nearly as important and doesn't affect the even playing field, and isn't worth the development time to implement. Having the non-refreshing baseball games be integrated into the game should solve issues from people modifying the script, since that part of the script won't have a need to exist.

A cap of $1M/day makes it just not worth doing. If its going to get capped it should definitely be higher than $1M. Perhaps a monthly cap that makes it still appealing to those with the time but not feeling mandatory to those without the inclination?

Your right my bad let me get partisan over here.

I don't really care about baseball, I'd even say remove it just so discussions like this don't happen every quarter. However the concern that baseball generates too much money is kinda funny since the credit cap got increased to 20 not too long ago. That 400m is so much more impactful than the meager amounts people generate monthly from baseball, not to mention that 400m is more money than a lot of nations generate each month. Greedy.

serious answer: Continue to push forums as a primary method of communication. Bring people back to long-form discussion boards where politics can take a more serious tone. Renew radio shows - we've hit a bit of a slump lately Sphere shakeup/Fluidity - Alliances need to be able to move freely between spheres a little bit more than they are. Right now it's a race/push to get into the "Good" blocs and the "not good" blocs kinda just sit there. There's more than just A or B, you could seek out other like-minded AA's and form a new bloc for example. Sphere Decentralization - FA is increasingly being handled by one or two figures within spheres, or centralized into a "council" of leadership within the sphere. Freedom, sovereignty, etc. is all still very central to the health of politics in this game and we need to start taking steps away from this pattern.

welcome my fellow Hong Kongers!

This is a good point as well, it gets a lot of people from different alliances interacting with eachother. If devs are insistent on nerfing baseball, I think a decent compromise would be capping both home and away games at 250 while also making aways more profitable. That way people are still incentivized to play them and it's possible to make around 5 mil a day from baseball, but no longer possible for anyone to play all day and get 10 million. Ultimately I don't think a few people making 8 to 10 million a day off baseball is a serious enough problem to warrant alienating so many people, most of whom play as intended and use it for a bit of extra cash the same way as rewarded ads.

Sort of wild to say that people, and by “people”, I mean maybe… what, 1-7 try hard/sweats are making a whopping potential 8m a day, and we’re wanting to adjust an entire mechanic in the game? Just because others “aren’t”, doesn’t mean that it’s some abuse or exploit across the board. It’s literally, 8m a day at most, and I’m going to assume this is the most extreme example that’s able to be found. 8m a day lol; watch out guys, 8m a day, you know, less than what a c7 raider makes in one raid. And to play advocate, @Who Me I’m sure you’re far from crystal clean hands in this scenario. Certainly if you didn’t play hundreds, if not thousands of games a day through *whatever* means you’re doing it, this wouldn’t even be a topic.

Bold generalization you're making there. Got any proof to back it up? I've been a pretty heavy baseball player from time to time and I've been in front of my computer clicking for every single one of my games. So have, as far as I know, the overwhelming majority of the current active members of the baseball community. You may even be surprised to learn we report players whom we suspect of using auto-clickers. I don't deny there is potential for abuse but I thought it worth to set the record straight as I'm not a fan of being painted with a broad brush like that.

Pre just has a hard-on for baseball and has for a very long time. Quite frankly he should just be removed from the dev team because of his constant desire to kill something that anyone in the game can use equally. He seems obsessed with killing something that new players can use to help them boost their nations quickly which is something sheepy seems to desire.

In a game where people complain consistently about Whales and the lack of any meaningful catch up mechanics, nerfing something that can serve as a potential catch up mechanic to me is seemingly foolish. I don't think there is any issue with people who want to get some extra effort in can make a little extra cash. Also, let's not act like Alex isn't getting a bit of money coming in for these baseball games. When I play my two fifty games, I get an ad every time I click! Cap it if you want it, but 1million a day is only going to hurt smaller nations who are looking for a chance to catch up with a little effort. At least make it comparable to rewarded ads, which I notice no one is complaining about.

I know you already have your mind set on nerfing baseball, so I'm just gonna raise up something else which I think is also very important. Over the past few weeks, there have been a lot of new players joining the baseball community. If you were to implement such a massive nerf to baseball, you should consider having an option that allows a player to get a refund for their investments in the stadium (perhaps team members as well, although it might be more iffy). It's not fair for players who dumped in $40M into baseball, and then you suddently change the income to $1M a day.

I think this is a really good point that rarely gets mentioned! PnW is all about the community. Without the people, the game is boring af especially during peacetime, which is the vast majority of the time. Even wartime isn't that fun either tbh. Through baseball, I got to know many friends from other alliances. It is a unique mechanic that adds another layer of player interactions in the game, bringing together a bunch of decidated players who don't mind the hassle to earn a few extra million a day (The "normal" figure is probably around $3.5M-$4M, $8M a day is for no-lifers like me. Some data from @Prefontaine would be nice) I've even exchanged a few million $ of tips with a carthago nation that I was arranging beige cycles for . lol And cheaters are a no no. Yall, the script does not automate baseball, it just allows us to play 1 game a click which is allowed, and necessary due to how bad the baseball UI itself is. @Mayor

So I am interested in this somewhat and wanted to see what the broader community thought on this. Lately I have been seeing much more talk of in game community and I am interested what do you think would be a good way to drive community engagement in game.

Making sitting harder could turn out to be a big whale buff, making it harder or impossible to harpoon and keep those threats down, if they are guaranteed a rebuild. I think it could be worth considering other ways to help the losing side that don't detract from that goal by widening the tiering advantage. Alternatives: Buffing missiles / nukes (e.g. have the damage scale with cities, so they don't become increasingly irrelevant at higher city counts) Changing blockade mechanics so that there are more options to avoid running out of funds Allow utter failures to inflict at least some damage to infra

Yep, that’s basically how things are supposed to work. I’ll forgive you this time. So, we should probably remove war, blitzing, market trading, etc? I mean, those all involve a level of time, and it wouldn’t be fair to those who can’t invest as much as others. Again, this baseball “problem” literally generates on average, maybe around 3m a day, with the exception of perhaps 3-5 people that go wild. (I’m only here to argue with whoever I can find btw) I agree with the guy above btw; if we’re able to see who is apparently exploiting this to an insane degree, just uh, take action against them, and not use this as a way to kill Baseball. No one here will deny that Pre has hard the biggest hate boner for Baseball for the longest time. Just punish the 3-5 people that are making it such a big and important issue to bring community attention to.

I understand that Baseball is not intended to be a core mechanic, however I believe that it adds an additional level of complexity that rewards activity, when not abused. So, let's make it so it can't be abused! (without practically making it unviable) - I propose we make it so that the 250 game limit is absolute, and you can't play anymore after that. Fixes the issue of players abusing the mechanic to make 8m, 240m, etc. - I propose we lower the 250 game limit to 50 games, while making the reward from playing each game 5x more. Borg already suggested this somewhere on the RON server, and I think it's a good way to counteract the need to use bots at all. - lastly, I propose making it so you can't play baseball while blockaded, and that would fix the issue of people using it as a way to work around blockades. Same with video ads too.

k so to start off... baseball should be futbol lesbirealheer (i will also accept some fictional orbis game) and secondly why do you not post data on this shit @Prefontaine just throw the data down and we dont have to deal with as much of this nonsense 😕 opinions (with some suggestions) id prefer a like weekly/monthly cap as opposed to a daily cap... IF a cap is going to be implemented at all chores are bad i do like the diminishing returns model tho maybe tighten that up? i agree it should be a money sink with no real sigificant bonus BUT people that choose to waste stupid amounts of time on a browser game should get a smol kookie tbh tho we shouldnt be encouraging people to sit there and click buttons like that it should benefit smaller nations more than bigger nations maybe mario party it up and like give a 5-15% chance to just win against better teams and get higher percentage payouts for beating bigger pplz (not that many pplz would have unmaxed teams) pplz like the underdog hype (mostly) suggestions build tips in already make it way less clicks to actually play (maybe even just 1 like has been suggested xP) dunno how one would do this... but make it so you cant just put an autoclicker on top of one spot >;3 maybe tie some rng with some noise and have it pop up somewhere within a square.... stop making me type in custom names every time i lost my train of thought let me sell icecream at home all games rawr

Right now, there is only a cap of 250 Home games in Baseball. However, there is no cap for Away games. With tips, a nation can make up to $3-4 million a day from Home games [compared to rewarded ads with a cap of 2 million]. As for Away games, you need at least 1000+ just to make the same amount. To max your Baseball team, it costs $40 million. So to gain your money back, you will need to play Baseball every day for 11 days. A cap of 1 million means a nation will only bring in $600-700k a day after tips. Sure, someone who botted baseball and crashed the game deserved a ban. Meanwhile, the script that most players are using still requires the player to manually click the buttons and refreshes the page if the game suspects you are auto-clicking if you click too fast. I understand that Baseball is not meant to be a main source of income just like rewarded ads and Keno. However, placing a $1 million cap on Baseball will only punish players who play Baseball every day. Possible alternatives: - $5 million cap on earnings per day - make Away games more profitable or some kind of cap on them - a scaled cap on earnings based on city count like @The Whale mentioned - Decrease the cost to upgrade your stadium to make it more accessible for new players

Yeah dumb pre wanting to screw over all those poor new players like you who are 2320 days old, having played only 1,580,377 games using a script.

The gaslighting was pretty obvious when he made it seem like the server crashing two weeks ago was the result of legitimate baseball players rather than one person trying to cheat. Sadly I can't say I'm surprised though as it seems par for course. I have a few thoughts on this which I hope to make later when I have more time. In the meantime, spoiler alert: this is an overall a terrible proposal from someone who clearly hasn't bothered to understand the dynamics of baseball despite the fact it's apparently been his sole concern with the game for months now.

Where are the comments where people are complaining about baseball? I’ve never really seen any actual person bring up baseball of all things, as an issue. I think raising “issues” because a few people go wild, is almost a form of gaslighting, meanwhile I never see a single soul complain. If I’m wrong, I’m wrong, but who is actually complaining? (Also, I literally just maxed my team/stadium and have had a lot of fun delving into this little baseball sub-community; really unsure what the big whoop is.)

Beige Cycling isn't a bad thing in itself. An alliance that can beige cycle well would be the deemed as competent and nerfing beige cycling would in effect be like nerfing someone who is better at the game than the others. Same goes for blitzes. We've seen examples where the alliance blitzing doesn't slot people well or do attacks that are not needed. While personally, the changes that were proposed in the "All wars end in beige" post would have benefited me, I don't think it would have created a healthy competition. I think the current system is fine but we have to do something to give people more beige time. Making cycling harder by increasing beige time from losing wars might be a good solution. Having superiorities expire every X turns to promote players to keep attacking with all types of attacks could be another way forward. While we definitely should allow players to be able to rebuild faster, competence should be equally rewarded as well.

examination system 👍 Best of luck!

A Hong Kong alliance? Nice!

Good luck!

Just another student horror

Going to make another post here since it's that day apparently. I want to keep my point clear the community aspect is good and hopefully whatever happens to baseball it can be preserved and expanded upon. Thats an idea for another thread witch I will be doing tonight.

It might save everyone some time and effort if baseball was just removed. It's been getting nerfs for years now, and I see no reason why even if the proposed changes go through, why there won't be another thread discussing a new nerf in a few months. But if that doesn't tickle your fancy, listen to @leonissenbaum. He's smart and he probably knows what he's talking about.

No.

4 or 5 million a day is nothing to a larger nation, and it's quite a bit for a c15, so this is going to disadvantage smaller players even more. Key has a good suggestion about putting a cap on away games to stop people who could be using autoclickers to play baseball all day. But honestly if someone is willing to no-life this game so much that they'll sit and click a button for 4 hours a day, who cares? Is it also unfair that some people aren't willing to take the time to find good raid targets or set beige timers and thus make less money than people who do? More time and effort = more money in this game, I don't see anything wrong with that.

I got a better idea. Remove baseball revenues completely so botters can't make free and undeserved money off it. No need to thanks me.

Can we all take a breath for a moment and try to let some of the emotions settle to give way to a more meaningful conversation? Speaking for myself I can assure you, the only grudge I hold against baseball is having to have conversations like these. Do I think it's a dumb mechanic in these games? Sure. Do I care that it exists? Not really. Do I care that it's abusable? That's where I care. The thread started with some ideas about how to allow for it to exist, and how to focus the benefits, and I was definitely receptive to it. Belgium and I are on board with the no changes for X days after announced changes to allow for ROI for recent investors. Rather than spitting venom at baseball users or at those proposing to change it, spend the energy on finding better solutions.

Baseball was never meant to be a means for making money. We have precedent for that in Alex's earlier nerf of baseball when GOONS exploited it. Main money earner is national income.

Just kill it already, and stop the slow meandering death of baseball.

Because as @Ben Zene said, a lot of new players started to play baseball the last couple of months. I do agree that nowadays most players aren't whales, but baseball is an important tool that helps closing the gap between whales and the rest of the pack. Making it an increasing cap is only going to make the problem worse.

I remember reading in a previous post that part of your negative view about baseball was due to some players making exorbitant amounts of money out of it. I also know that most (if not all) of those players are whales. That said, I understand baseball can be unbalanced when you have multiple whales profiting millions daily. But it is important to mention that for new players (who are extremely important for the game's future), baseball is a way to close the gap between them and the older nations. So, don't you think it would be smarter for the cap to reduce according to the player's city count? You could set a base gap of $100mil a month and after c15 it reduces $2.5mil per city built until it reaches $50mil. I think it would be a healthier way to handle this issue.

I agree; fairness and stability of investement is fair and important. Just like we wouldn't nerf expensive projects if people have them without compensation, the same should apply here. I propose once the details and bits have been finalized we enter a thirty day grace period where everything keeps going as it does now. Once this grace period starts we place a fancy announcement at the top of the baseball page, saying baseball will be nerfed on X date, then people can decide to keep investing or not doing so (obviously knowing the risk ahead of time). A grace period of a month should be more than enough to return the 40M and even make some good profit. Will also be easier to code than a whole refund.

What about a scaled cap? Something that say stops growing around 25 cities? Starts at being able to ear 40M per month at 1 city, and then grows by 2M per city up to something near 80M?

Oh great. I'm going to get pulled in via a chaining treaty to defend 🤢waffle house🤢

Hi first post here 👋, I really don’t understand the big deal about nerfing baseball to be honest, like if someone wants to spend hours of their time on clicking a button so their virtual nation can have more money, I say go for it. I personally don’t really play baseball much because I believe that I have better things to do, but if you care enough about this game to spend hours playing baseball, I think that you should be rewarded for it. And I know people are going to point out how much certain people make, but baseball is pretty much accessible for anyone in the game so anyone complaining could do the same thing if they really wanted to. That’s just my take on this 🤷‍♂️

After a pretty long conversation in a news server a general point everyone agreed on was a 2 million dollar a day cap to keep it in line with reward ads.

Tutorial Update This is a long time coming, and still in its infancy. If you have interest in joining the tutorial team please let me know with either a DM on discord or here. The change should be self explanatory, to make a better tutorial but the focus is this: -Design a system that guides the player from city 1-10 -Advise on ideal infra levels, land levels, resources to produce (or better yet ones to not), avoiding certain commerce, power plants, etc... -A simulated NPC nation to declare a test war on to explain the war system. -Suggest joining alliances based player desire (growth, raiding, war, learning, etc...) -These may be tags alliances can utilize to attract new players they want. Arrgh may want raiders. eS may want growth, etc... Just an overview.