Peace in our Time

[KindaEpicMoah]

18 minutes ago, Micchan said:

It is also true that we are at a point where some whales need a day off just to change all their cities if they don't have vip

God forbid Grumpy whales have to sacrifice 1/4 of their daily income to get VIP every time they change their builds. Truly a tragedy.

[Kalachthefirst]

Jealousy is pretty high in this comment section lol. 

[Bollocks]

Honestly don’t have an issue with this. A war just reinforces bi-polarity. Maybe this opens up enough dialog to shake things up diplomatically 

The game’s meta always benefits more from more multi-polarity 

[Insert Name Here]

4 minutes ago, Lord of Puns said:

Guys someone contact ONN, we’ve got a guy here that disagrees with his leadership! 

 

Mostly I am worried for Ockey because he's probably being held hostage somewhere, as I find it really weird he'd agree to this but oh well.

[Jasnah Kholin]

10 minutes ago, JadenStar10 said:

Wall of Shame

 

 

Thanks for pinging every single Celestial/Hollywood member who commented on the Swamp war?

[cadn]

54 minutes ago, Grave said:

The only way that statement holds, even theoretically is if there is already concrete, set up plans for clock and BR to team up on either HW or celestial while  they are demilitarized . Is that what your saying right now?

Can't go past that TI has involved themselves in two mega-treaties

[WarriorSoul]

how dare you take steps to protect against a thing that we very notoriously did six months ago

[Leftbehind]

43 minutes ago, Grave said:

 

Okay so since the clause was to ensure that one side didnt instigate a war that they arent involved in  by forcing them to be involved on the opposite side of the group they're influencing.  

 

 

It seems like you were wrong after all 

Maybe you don't get it or maybe you are trying to get that glorious moment where you can flex your vastly superior intelligence upon us wayward fools. Hell, maybe you are a troll sacrificing his intelligence in order to get a what you view as a rise out of me. I simply do not know but the one thing I do know, is that if HW put more effort into FA than we wouldn't get this FA killing treaty. 

Imagine being so scared of Clock that you need to sign skytrash. I expected this from them but not HW. 

[Sweeeeet Ronny D]

I feel like we should be hailed for our bravery on posting this.  Its easy to make posts where you know people are going to love you for it, its another thing to make a post you know you are going to eat shit for.

We are brave special flowers, and you should all be showering us with adulation for it.

[Zevari]

16 minutes ago, Leftbehind said:

Maybe you don't get it or maybe you are trying to get that glorious moment where you can flex your vastly superior intelligence upon us wayward fools. Hell, maybe you are a troll sacrificing his intelligence in order to get a what you view as a rise out of me. I simply do not know but the one thing I do know, is that if HW put more effort into FA than we wouldn't get this FA killing treaty. 

Imagine being so scared of Clock that you need to sign skytrash. I expected this from them but not HW. 

Damn, I guess I don't understand FA at all than. I was under the assumption that creating dialogue between two major spheres (ones that are rivals at that) and creating a rather unique treaty that fully takes advantage of the multi-sphere based politics is horrible FA. 

I guess next time everyone should just sit 100% milled and twiddle their thumbs waiting for backrooms and clock to finish their war and de-mil. That is clearly so much better FA and much more engaging for the community.

[Arawra]

Wall of Wasted Time

46 minutes ago, JadenStar10 said:

Wall of Shame

 

 

 

[Hodor]

This is simultaneously the best and worst FA move this year. Only time will tell which it will be.

[Corvidae]

7 minutes ago, Hodor said:

This is simultaneously the best and worst FA move this year. Only time will tell which it will be.

hodor.

[Leftbehind]

41 minutes ago, Zevari said:

Damn, I guess I don't understand FA at all than. I was under the assumption that creating dialogue between two major spheres (ones that are rivals at that) and creating a rather unique treaty that fully takes advantage of the multi-sphere based politics is horrible FA. 

I guess next time everyone should just sit 100% milled and twiddle their thumbs waiting for backrooms and clock to finish their war and de-mil. That is clearly so much better FA and much more engaging for the community.

No, you don't. 

What you believe to be a "good FA" was actually lazy. It doesn't take much for anyone to convince tS that a treaty to defend their pixels is a good idea. They have a history of paranoia so you are effectively justifying their paranoia by wasting the time and energy with this rubbish. 

People tend to forget that FA's job is to create situations that will either benefit them now or later. Sometimes, it involves leaps of faith not safety nets. 

Now, I see people crying "Clock Chained Wars Before" as a justification for this red headed stepchild treaty. Problem is the Clock chain into Rose was a completely different beast than what you are seeing right now. 

When Clock decided to go to war with Rose, CATA and HoF had already had planned to do a brief war on MInc. So when CATA and HoF milled up to do that brief war, Aurora being Aurora milled up as well which triggered Oasis and Minc to sign a Temp treaty with each other for protection. At this point BW got pissed off and joined Clock in hitting them. 

Clock not wanting to lose their original plans peaced out and hit Rose. This whole war with BR isn't the same situation at all. Quit pretending it is. 

 

Edited May 25, 2022 by Leftbehind

[Jacob Knox]

1 hour ago, Gaius Julius Caesar said:

wanted Celestials and Hollywood to fight while THEY fought

The answer is yes. I wanted to see Celestial and Hollywood duke it out. I don't care if it was at the same time as us or what, but I wanted to see it. This just shows that they're unwilling (which they even said, of course). Is it because everyone has been !@#$ing about wars without valid CBs or is it because they want to continue whatever growth plans they have going (which some may call pixelhugging, that's there prerogative)? Idk and idc.

 

Also, teaming up with a now militarily decimated BR would be, frankly, stupid from a strategic standpoint. Would be smarter to team up with another sphere. But that would likely be poor FA anyway since, you know, we just hit someone for colluding against us like that. And trying a 1 v 1 against either of those spheres right now? Goodbye upper tier lmfao.

 

Finally, being mad/upset about this doesn't necessarily have to be driven by an ulterior motive (i.e.: wanting to hit one of them or see them fight each other) since people from all over have come together to criticize this for seemingly different reasons.

[Zevari]

1 minute ago, Leftbehind said:

People tend to forget that an FA's job is to create situations that will either benefit them now or later. Sometimes, it involves leaps of faith not safety nets. 

I love how this one sentence is best applied to you of all people....

What could possibly be the short or long term benefit of creating a situation where a sphere can demilitarize and raise their income? 

[Kevanovia]

1 hour ago, Gaius Julius Caesar said:

I don't imagine this will be a very popular post from me, but I'm not exactly here to be popular, so I'm not particularly bothered by that.

 

Far be it from me to tell people what they can and cannot feel, that is their right as people. If you love this announcement, great, good, I'm happy for you. If you nature this post, ok, cool, that's your prerogative.

 

I will say though, the response does amuse me to an extent. The only reason people would be upset about this is the fact that it gets in the way of their plans, one way or another. I don't know if Clock or Backroom wanted Celestials and Hollywood to fight while THEY fought. I don't know if Backroom is upset because they wanted Celestials or Hollywood to join the war to defend them, or something.

 

The biggest thing though, at least from what I have seen, that people are upset about is article 3, and I have to point out, There was no reason to be upset about that, unless you wanted to attack one bloc or the other. It is not a mutually offensive pact, it doesn't link the two spheres to both attack someone, it's not like this is some hegemonic obsessive force. It's simply says both spheres do not want to fight, and respect the other's desire not to fight, and will defend them if someone attacks them. That is all it says, and that doesn't matter unless you want it to attack one or the other. If you didn't want to attack One of the two spheres, them agreeing to defend each other if one is attacked, doing a very temporary period of time has zero impact on you. It's as plain and simple as that. 

 

"I am upset because this means I can not attack one sphere without the interference and defense of the other." is what 95% of people being upset here is, unless you want to make the argument that this sets a bad and dangerous precedent, and in which case, that's entirely dumb for a different reason that we can discuss at a later point in time.

 

This does set a bad precedent. Your argument is "well..it's not bad if there is nothing to worry about" - then why not do it every war? Then it effectively becomes acceptable for blocs to have MDP's with one another going forward in every single war when they aren't the first ones attacked. 

[Kevanovia]

1 minute ago, Etat said:

I think there's enough recent irksome history between the various member alliances of Celestial and HW to discount any suggestion of an established MDP.  Anyway it is quite clearly a time limited arrangement for a specific and articulated purpose, that provides some clarity in what has otherwise been a very foggy situation of late.  Really you all seem to be just raging because you can, not because you should.

^This is a non-answer. You didn't dispute the point made, which is that this sets a precedent of doing these "temporary" MDPs going forward. The same such agreement that all of Orbis (your bloc included) was against when MINC and Oasis did it.

 

Side note: It is quite refreshing to be having actual debate on the forums again. 🍻 

[Divinum]

17 minutes ago, Zevari said:

I love how this one sentence is best applied to you of all people....

What could possibly be the short or long term benefit of creating a situation where a sphere can demilitarize and raise their income? 

Once Pablo demilitarizes, he can be blitzed and lose his infra investment.

[Shabriri]

I wonder what @Ryker Wolf has to say about this. 

[His Holy Decagon]

"We brought in more high infra nations to deter the low infra alliances"

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

20 minutes ago, Jacob Knox said:

The answer is yes. I wanted to see Celestial and Hollywood duke it out. I don't care if it was at the same time as us or what, but I wanted to see it. This just shows that they're unwilling (which they even said, of course). Is it because everyone has been !@#$ing about wars without valid CBs or is it because they want to continue whatever growth plans they have going (which some may call pixelhugging, that's there prerogative)? Idk and idc.

Also, teaming up with a now militarily decimated BR would be, frankly, stupid from a strategic standpoint. Would be smarter to team up with another sphere. But that would likely be poor FA anyway since, you know, we just hit someone for colluding against us like that. And trying a 1 v 1 against either of those spheres right now? Goodbye upper tier lmfao.

Finally, being mad/upset about this doesn't necessarily have to be driven by an ulterior motive (i.e.: wanting to hit one of them or see them fight each other) since people from all over have come together to criticize this for seemingly different reasons.

Ok, let's break down the various parts of this. First and foremost, I apologize for the bluntness, but no one cares that Aurora, or Serpentis or anyone else wants to see Celestial and Hollywood fight. To continue being blunt, there's simply no reason for us to fight. We don't hate each other, and as SRD and WANA and Lucianus and Wizel and others in both Celestials and Hollywood have said at many points in time, we don't tend to start wars for zero reason.

Blackwater and Rose fought Hollywood in the past because they felt Grumpy and others had gone too long with their infra un-shaved, and Hollywood rolled Blackwater because they felt that they had been repeatedly targeted by T$ for reasons they disagreed with. There have been PLENTY of wars between T$, Rose, TKR, Grumpy, Guardian, Immortals, BK, and other alliances that are involved in these spheres, but they have always happened for reasons beyond "we're bored, and some third party would like to see us fight, let's do that", so put that hope to bed, mate.

You might not have been paying attention, but Lucianus and WANA were EXCEPTIONALLY clear when Celestials formed that this sphere was not formed for the purpose of attacking Hollywood. Celestials has been a sphere for barely two months, to turn around and attack Hollywood for literally no reason would be to broadcast to literally everyone that Celestials hates Hollywood and that our leaders are liars, and that's just not the case. 

As for the second point, I said nothing about Clock and BR teaming up to fight either one of us, I dunno where you got that idea. What I said was that Backroom might have wanted either Celestials or Hollywood to join to attack Clock, which I feel confident saying was their desire seeing as multiple members of Backroom PUBLICLY ADMITTED THEY WANTED THAT. I also said Clock might have been upset because they wanted to chain a war off of kicking the daylights out of Backroom and in turn hit either Celestials or Hollywood, which is not an unreasonable expectation for Clock, seeing as they LITERALLY DID EXACTLY THAT IN THE PAST. Do people really think them rolling Oasis and then peacing out to sprint at Rose to attack them because, "They hit a million score, and they wanted a better fight than Oasis"? Kicking the daylights out of a smaller, weaker sphere and then sprinting at another sphere to roll them without warning sounds about right for Clock, so is it any surprise both other spheres took measures to prevent that from happening again?

Finally, like I said, people can have any reason for being upset, but when the majority of the outrage seems SOLELY focused on article 3, the article that says both will defend each other if they are attacked, and people don't seem particularly upset about both de-milling and saying they aren't going to fight, it sorta leads you in a certain direction. "I'm not gonna be angry that they got rid of their militaries. I'm not gonna be upset that they said they aren't going to fight each other. I AM going to be upset though that they said they would defend each other if Clock hits one of us (let's be real, Backroom isn't in any shape to hit anyone)" What other assumption can be gained from this? 

[Indger]

2 hours ago, Insert Name Here said:

Being an HW member I'm the 1st to say there's a foul stench of pixel huggery coming from this.

Same here, 100% agreed.

 

2 hours ago, JadenStar10 said:

Wall of Shame

 

 

I still hold the same views that i had in past and outlined in my post. No Change.

[Jacob Knox]

27 minutes ago, Tartarus said:

*Their

Oh no! You've smited my entire post and eloquently countered each point by identifying a singular grammatical error that composes approximately 0.5% of its wordage. What ever will I do?

If I wanted my post to be judged based on grammar, spelling, and other mechanics instead of substance I would submit it to a professor in my college's English department and request that specific feedback.

[Mayor]

God forbid tS gets into another war, they might have to demil first day, throw the war, and then disband Celestial. With such former blocs like mile high and blackwater, I don't think anyone is truly surprised by this pathetic treaty involving morally bankrupt alliances.