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We are here for the whales - t$ DoW


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2 minutes ago, Buorhann said:

I'm only a bystander looking from the outside in.  I'm quoting SRD's term he used.

Considering that it took several alliances to realize what the hell happened in the previous global, it wouldn't surprise me if communities decided to rally against another big built up sphere before it got too large to deal with later.  But again, I'm only just now taking a look myself.

Hence the question to @Adrienne's reply.

We weren't too big for this world, just too big for someone else's ambitions.  Going to be interesting when the dust settles, to see who are the useful idiots that were taken along for a ride here.  There's going to be long term winners and losers over on the other side.  Should be fun to watch.

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1 hour ago, Prefonteen said:

The IQ comparisons are starting to become the godwin of our time. Pretty please man.

We were alerted to an imminent threat and responded to it. The outcome will not be in our favor, but I have no regrets over the decision to pre-empt what looks, stinks and sounds like a premade coalition or bandwagon dogpile.

 

As for IQ tricks... don't get me started on the behavior of some parties within your coalition thusfar.

Looks like a snake but sounds like a Roq.

Strange times indeed.

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2 minutes ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said:

Wait... how are you the victims here? you attacked us (again btw), and its taking a coalition of 3 separate blocks working together to fight you guys.

And again, I didn't call you guys IQ, I said I wanted to prevent you from becoming like them.

You did not need the entire rest of the game to work together to fight us. You only needed that if you wanted a dogpile.

 

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5 minutes ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said:

The rest of the game!?!? I will have you know that Schrute Farms is doing absolutely nothing, and is in now way assisting in our war effort.

Regardless of that it did not require the rest of the world's help to fight us. You just chose to call them in :P

It's fine that you did so, but don't pretend otherwise

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50 minutes ago, PhantomThiefB said:

Eh, what do you expect when being compared to the worst hegemony in PnW history while simultaneously being attacked by a force double the size? Yeahhh SWD, big brain time.🤷‍♂️

Hubris will always invite Nemesis 🤷‍♂️

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17 minutes ago, Smith said:

You did not need the entire rest of the game to work together to fight us. You only needed that if you wanted a dogpile.

 

This argument literally every single war. So funny.

Myself I am glad to finally destroy NPO once and for all.

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1 minute ago, Cooper_ said:

This just isn't cool or funny.  We spent 9 months under NPO and IQ's boot, fighting harder, longer and louder than virtually any other alliance.  And I'm damn proud of our community for doing what it did.  Now, you're going to call us IQ/NPO?  Take a step back man, and get some perspective.  We're freaking TKR.  

On a more general note, I really think we need to practice better hygiene with how we post.  Calling people you don't like IQ is just wrong and clearly lacks any understanding of context.  A lot of us suffered a lot during that war, and it minimizes it when you just flippantly throw it around.  And in reality, it doesn't take a lot of brainpower to come up with a better byline for your narrative.  Do better.  Be better.

I was being sarcastic friend. I have been a member of NPO for like 10 years in nation-states. I just like war. :)

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14 minutes ago, Cooper_ said:

This just isn't cool or funny.  We spent 9 months under NPO and IQ's boot, fighting harder, longer and louder than virtually any other alliance.  And I'm damn proud of our community for doing what it did.  Now, you're going to call us IQ/NPO?  Take a step back man, and get some perspective.  We're freaking TKR.  

I'm curious to the comparison of Quacksphere (wtf?) to other spheres individually.

I'll agree that it's not right to call/compare TKR to IQ/NPO (I say that as someone who was upfront and fought along with you guys in that mess from the start), but the formation of TKR/Syndicate and what you've guys built is worrisome to players.


(My own personal opinion though?  Both Camelot and Syndicate need to get rolled.  Then all is well)

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1 hour ago, hope said:

so you plotted something, it backfired, and now you claim to be a victim because people wanted to go to war over it?

Who plotted again?  We're only going to war because you guys were going to dogpile us, and we decided to start it on our terms instead.

The accusations of "hegemony" and "plotting" and whatnot are utterly hilarious.  I don't know who you're trying to convince.

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1 hour ago, Buorhann said:

I'm curious to the comparison of Quacksphere (wtf?) to other spheres individually.

I'll agree that it's not right to call/compare TKR to IQ/NPO (I say that as someone who was upfront and fought along with you guys in that mess from the start), but the formation of TKR/Syndicate and what you've guys built is worrisome to players.


(My own personal opinion though?  Both Camelot and Syndicate need to get rolled.  Then all is well)

Screen Shot 2020-10-31 at 2.18.09 AM.png

 

Courtesy of @Cooper_in a different thread.

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1 hour ago, Buorhann said:

I'm curious to the comparison of Quacksphere (wtf?) to other spheres individually.

I'll agree that it's not right to call/compare TKR to IQ/NPO (I say that as someone who was upfront and fought along with you guys in that mess from the start), but the formation of TKR/Syndicate and what you've guys built is worrisome to players.


(My own personal opinion though?  Both Camelot and Syndicate need to get rolled.  Then all is well)

I think it's hard to make an apples to apples comparison.  I also haven't been around long enough to know enough about Orbis intimately to make such a claim.  What I will say though is that I think there's a substantive difference between being called a hegemony and acting like a hegemony.  It's hard to make that point because a lot of decisions, especially negative decisions are thrown out when you make tiering comparisons in a vacuum.  I mean I'll say Quack has had multiple opportunities to hit other spheres, which it has turned down due to a combination of factors including fairness of the war and impact on the meta.  On top of this, Quack has actively cut down on it's treaties (TI, T&, Soup, and others) as well as rejecting many other potential ties.  When the NAP began, we were at the size of TcWsphere, and the only thing that changed was that we grew faster than the rest.  Should we get penalized for recruiting better and growing faster?  I'm not sure.  

I also mean to contend the fact that Quack even qualifies as a hegemony.  There are currently 4 principal spheres, and Quack makes up about ~30% of cities with another sphere, Swamp,, making up 35-40%.  From what I understand, the hegemony narrative's strongest point is the TKR-T$ tie.  Something about our competence makes us the end-all-be-all of Orbis.  I get the idea that competence makes a large difference, but as we saw with IQ even the best fighters can't really do better than 1.3:1, 1.5:1, maybe? 2:1, and most of Quack isn't TKR-T$.  I suppose the final point people make is control over a single tier, but that just isn't there on any level.  I think all of these conditions of hegemony failing are why the claims are so vague here.  It's just an accusation of hegemony with no backup.

Part of the problem is that actors see hegemony narratives as a means to an end because it has worked in the past.  If you want to roll someone opportunistically, then you call them a hegemon and can fudge the rest.  It's a crime of existence not a crime that exists.  This isn't the first time that it's been used successfully against TKR.  And they can be effective politically, but that doesn't make them true.  It's usually a bit more complicated with that in backrooms, but you probably understand better than I, buor, how powerful hegemony narratives are.  Admittedly, this is one of the poorer narratives I've seen, which is why we were a bit surprised by the other spheres also entering.  It's a bit funny that the "hegemons" are usually the ones that get hit 2-3:1 instead of the other way around.

If you want to know my take, I was expecting to go to war with Swamp and HM.  We couldn't realistically take on both, so we blitzed what we could and hoped for a slow counter to merge our blitz front before Swamp could fully mobilize.  We weren't sure whether we could win (50/50 at best), and I thought we were going to have among the most balanced wars in recent times.  Result either way was likely going to be the breakup of Quack.  Now, I have no idea what will happen with the ensuing political isolation we'll experience.  I imagine the meta commentary will be more refined as we see things evolve, but I think that fairly responds your question.

 

1 hour ago, hope said:

so you plotted something, it backfired, and now you claim to be a victim because people wanted to go to war over it?

Hi, we didn't do any plotting.  We responded to the dice Orbis gave us.  This war was never our intention nor our idea.  It was either now or in mid-November.  There's no if.  Only when.  We chose to do it on our terms with clearly established Orbis precedent.  

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9 hours ago, Buorhann said:

Would that coalition still be forming if one bloc wasn't becoming a "monster" as it was put?

 

9 hours ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said:

I didn't say you were, I said I didn't want you to become them.  Because I love my former allies in TKR, I want to help you guys not become the evil empire!

Ok... how tho?

IQ was strong on account of their absurd consolidation and numbers, but they were a monster on account of their incredibly toxic behaviors. I'm quite sure I don't need to remind you as to what they did, so I'm just asking... how was Quacksphere even coming remotely close to that?

We're not forcing our own allies into mergers, meatshielding or disbandment. We're not paranoically allying up with a majority of the game. We're not gaslighting our own treaty partners. We're not pulling in thousands of weeaboos and giving them explicit orders to not play the game. We're not waging war with the express intention of forcing people out of the game... and neither are our enemies, I'm quite certain of that. So where's the IQ comparisons coming from?

Now, one could indeed make the argument that Quacksphere is big and scary, that's fine... but one can't possibly make the argument that Quacksphere is too big, since the number of alliances making that argument refutes the substance of the argument. And one really can't make the argument that Quacksphere is IQ, that's just rude and uncalled for.

Unless there's a scandal in particular that I, and apparently everyone else is entirely unaware of, then please stop. Meanwhile if there IS such a scandal... then how dare you keep it under wraps? How dare you let us unknowingly become the monsters that we both fought so hard to expunge? Why would you not trust us to make the right call, right away? To hold such evidence behind a curtain, as some sort of deliberately aimed political bombshell that you'll reveal at the proper time is just dishonest. I am sincerely disappointed in you.

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