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I will make a small analysis for those that want to hear it. I want to first concentrate in the new production of a nation. A standar nation with cities with 2k infraestructure used to be able to have 115% commerce and produce at least 3 manufactured resources. the recent changes implemented means, more slots have to be spent on commerce to reach 115%, 5 more if you want 114% or 6 more if you want 115% due to the heavy pollution given by manufactures or raws, you have to be very selective with what you make even if you put 3 recycling centers in the nation. you have occupy a max of 5 manufacturing slots (aslong as you make alot of farms), without farms, I am afraid you ll be using even less slots for manufacture. the norm before the change was to use 9 to 12 slots for manufacture, and the norm for after the change is to have 4 slots. This means manufactured resources will drop 66% to what it used to be. After this war, when our stockpiles have been spent, and we realize how scarce production can be, manufactures will become a very sought out commodity and therefore, it will be quite pricey. My educated guess is that they will triple its market value. What is going to happen with food? food seems to be the most comfortable resource to produce given their low pollution addition, this has provoked that many nations now want to produce it. ofc that its efficiency was nerfed, but with the lack of better options, food has become the new thing in town. We have already seen an increase in food production and the constant drop in market prices, with this changes and seeing as everyone keeps producing it, food will keep going down so my advise is to get rid of your food before its worthless and/or stop producing it. you may ask: what can I do if I can't have manufactures nor food? your choice then would be to move your production to raw resources, but given that raws are now quite heavy in pollution, if you do those, you won't be able to do manufactures. so, given all this facts, I recommend to make 3 to 5 slots in manufactures, a few slots on food (necessary due to pollution) and a few slots on raw resources. if you don't care about pollution and you are willing to lose slots in hospitals to reduce disease you could try more manufacture slots, but that is not a personal favorite. A small advise for the little guys, if you haven't spent alot of money on land and you have it around 2k and are thinking of getting more, don't bother, food will not be as valuable as it once was. I could ofc be wrong, but give me the benefit of the doubt and wait a bit to see if my prediction is right before making any further land investment. Seb, CEO of Emerald Bank

There's 50 threads right now saying Orbis is in disarray, let's have a thread to thank Sheepy with all the positives of this change: -Fixing the economy: No longer can everyone just max produce everything, sorry Pantheon. -Going full commerce, full manufacturing can work, but no military 4 u. Have fun Arrgh, the bois are back in business. -Little alliances that suck at econ will die. How do you stop the evil treaty web? By killing it's food source. No more MDP trigger bait AAs. -Buying more cities until about city 16 was too easy. Infra didn't give you good returns. Now high infra is gud 4 u. -Econ programs across alliances actually mean something now: Before you would just join an AA. Didn't matter which in terms of econ. All macros the same unless the Communist Pacific Order, all micros the same. Same guides everywhere for the most part and they all got you to city 8 or 10. Then you got small AA loans (50 million or less) with little to no interest and you just sat there buying a warchest. Once that was done, you realized the crippling taxes were there to "payback the help" and grow the next generation. You'd realize the only way to grow is to go ask for private loans. You continue this cycle until you produce everything and war breaks out. You've had your warchest for months, you were ready, and as a matter of fact, you have quite a nice stockpile. Huge warchest with tons to spare. You're about to help redistribute war aid until you realize your noobs can buy steel at 1.6k ppu. No matter. You win or lose, after weeks of fighting, you begin to rebuild. You notice you barely spent your warchest with the current system. You want to rebuild, but bank loans are back-ordered. Your alliance is crippling you with 80% taxes. You decide to sell some resources. Hey wait a second, why is everything even cheaper now? Now you cannot rebuild to more than a measly 1200-1500 infra per city build. You're swamped with interest from your previous loan. If you lost, you had no upper tier back up, you pay high taxes, and you're swamped with debt after your AA lost. Weeks go by and you're still stuck with rebuild taxes, long after everyone else has rebuilt. Right around now, you wish someone would save you. Enter Alex, the Admin and creator of P/W. The end.

I don't think the most prevalent complaint itt is to do with that most *enthralling* discussion of "stagnation" lol. And saying we'd always, without exception, criticise Sheepy for doing anything about the market issue is objectively wrong. He's made plenty of changes and updates that have been met with unanimous praise. Where he went wrong in this case was focusing on a lesser issue to do with the complexity of city building (I haven't seen anyone taking much about "specialisation" so I wasn't aware it was an issue until now) when most people just wanted the market fixed.

Two potential thoughts, both meant to be separate ideas. One, throw it in as a Project, that requires 'Center for Civil Engineering'. Have it cost be like $50 million + 5000 Oil/Iron/Bauxite and only give a 5/10% discount on rebuilding infrastructure. Have another Project that requires the first and have it cost triple for another 5/10% discount. This option would be a large resource and money sink for those 'whales'. After the latest update, as resources will be likely getting scarce quickly, people will have to think about whether it's worth it to buy the projects. Second, have the discount on rebuilding scale, depending on how much you are rebuying. Your first 1000 infra rebuilt will cost 20% less. Your next 1000 infra rebuilt will cost 10% less. Your next 1000 infra rebuilt will cost 5% less. Anything after that has no extra discount. This option would help out smaller nations and mean that any 'whales' would still have a potentially hefty rebuild, if they get nuked or otherwise lose alot of infrastructure.

Do you even understand the impact of this update ? I will give you a hint , look for all the people who had maxed 2 or more refined resources ( or all of them for that matter ) and a couple raws on top of that ( particularly food) and look at what they are producing now. Actually I will just spell it out for you, people aren't maxing every resource available to them now, they are specialising in only a couple or even just one resource. Even if they are on their own producing more of that one resource, the fact that the entire game has had their production capacity limited in such a way means the general supply of resources has been dropped since we are all forced to specialise now into a few resources. Example, I may have doubled my food production and increased uran production but I've lost all gas, alum and munitions production meaning I can't sell these three refineds and will have to buy them from other people who have specialised into these resources. So we have decreased supply and increased demand. Given the full impact of this update will probably take a month and most likely a war to be fully seen but I wouldn't be surprised if we start seeing some of the impact in a couple weeks if not sooner. @Seb Your figures in the calcuation based on the production price I assume?

I mentioned it in a new thread, but I threw together this bulk city import tool to make improvement swapping easier: https://politicsandwar.com/city/improvements/bulk-import/

No, takes away the fun of the game. When you reduce a Nation to rubble the last thing you want to see when you wake up is their nation back to normal with no visible effect.

Damdaka: That was a good move! As a leader, please share the moment you felt proud of the alliance. Aerys : it was when we fought Mensa last war. We fought great, more than our expectations. We went in with SK, but they lost their military because of TKR counter, but we went on and pinned them down, then Hogwarts entered and destroyed our military, after which we again got back and destroyed Mensa's military a lot, we tied more than 15 members down even while at a disadvantage. That was when I felt proud about Zodiac/ Another moment was, when we were building up, our build up was faster than other alliances. It shows we are more responsive than others Lol. "Disadvantage" >First strike advantage >3 or 4 to 1 odds on your opponent >"fought better than our expectations" >Tied 15 members out of a 38 active member alliance >"Disadvantage" wew lad, that must've been some awfully low expectations

SOE is at a Cold War-like civil war. The Prime Minister and a few Ministers don't support the sultan anymore and they are trying to overthrow the goverment. While most of the Goverment, People and the army is on the Sultan's side, the Prime Minister is going to try to assasinate the Sultan and he wants to make protests happen. The people who support the PM are called Liberators. They have many tiny bases and groups of rebels spread across SOE. At Midnight the Sultan was still at the office, he finished a meeting with his Military Staff and Command. He was preparing to leave but before he did that he was on his phone. A loud noise was heard , a black four seater car , but the Sultan was at a high floor so he did not hear it. Out of the car got out four men in black suits and with guns. Three had SMGs and the last one had a shotgun. They had them hidden in a bag, they came to the reception area and one has shown a card "We have a special delivery for the Sultan, it's urgent" he said and they went up the stairs. When they reached the floor at where the Sutlan is, they shot at the guards, The Guards managed to kill one guy and escape through a secret passage. One guy stayed outside and kept guard while the guy with the shotgun entered with the other guy. As they entered Fil greeted them "Ah you came earlier than I expected, how come?" They were confused and the shotgunner aimed at him. "Special delivery" he said "We are going to do this quick. The guy with the SMG was looking around the room. In an another building which was overlooking the building Fil was in, was a sniper aiming at the shotgunner. He was aiming for his head, he shot and Fil threw a knife at the other gunman. He took the shotgun and shot through the door to kill the last gunman. Later that day , when Fil came to his palace he turned on the TV and he saw the PM giving a speech. "I am informed that the Sultan is dead, the little young kid emperor has suffered a horrible fate. We did what we could to save him but it was not enough. As his last wish he wanted me to become leader of SOE and I have said..." the PM was cut off before he was shot with a sniper. After he got hit , he fell into the crowd and there was a big scare in the crowd. A few men came down , one with a sniper and their faces were not visibe. The one with a sniper said "These were fake news, the Sultan is alive. Few hours ago there was an attempt to kill the Emperor . The Prime Minister wanted to owerthrow the Sultan with lies. We can assure you that the Emperor is doing his best to make the Empire a powerful and rich one. Don't be scared of poverty when the Sultan is at power" they left after that short speech. Tomorrow , when the Sultan was going to the office building he was getting many reports of rebellions across the empire. ( OOC: I am going to make this longer, more detailed and such later. I did not have much time at hand)

That's great that I make about 10 times as much, but really I would need to make over 30 times as much to keep the same growth ratio. Lets run some numbers, with the new changes, it takes 12 slots to max econ to 100%, at 9 cities, you should be sitting on what? 1200 infra per city, that gives you 24 slots, so running max econ shouldn't be that hard. I am also going to assume at that size you should be able to run 0 pollution, and 0 crime, so that means that 1200 infra should give you about 120000 people, of which each of them makes you 7.04 dollars a day times 9, at 30.88 percent tax in-game tax rate works out to about 2.35 million a day pre-expenses. He is actually running a little higher infra levels than that, and with the 3 percent income bonus should be bringing in 2.9 million a day pre-expenses. I would ball park he is sitting on around 1.2 million a day in expenses, with his current military level So that means he is making about 1.7 million a day. City 10 costs 25 million, which means it should take him about 15 days to go from city 9 to city 10. In comparison it takes me 50 days to go from city 26 to city 27. POINT IS: Stop whining about how much these changes make it hard for smaller nations to grow, they can still grow by a factor of over 3 times faster than most whale nations.

There are many inappropriate jokes I could make about merging but for now the threads have been merged.

I like this

I read the title and was like yeah right who's this noob then realized this is an Alex thread. LOL Make it an alliance project called Insurance Agency and reduce rebuy of infra to 15%. I had created a suggestion thread about making temporary Alliance projects that last 180days with reset date of 50days. This could fit in nicely if done right.

That's because I have a delay on that script so that people can't use it to pull real time data and snag those super good trade offers (which are usually mistakes) immediately with scripts or bots. It's been this way for at least a few months if not 6 months or longer.

Going back and reading that News article, that's actually well done. Would be nice to have a Orbis wide News article similar to that. So whoever is organizing that, kudos to that person.

Good luck!

Congratulations and good luck

Riddikulus!

Wish I could put my mouth on that fat hippo <3

To be honest, no matter what this update included, Alex would be crucified for changing the game. He could have *actually* fixed the problem (which he did not), and he would be getting roasted by the community for "being such an idiot for changing the game in a way I do not like." Politics and War is stagnated by politics more than any game play feature. The only thing Alex can do is try to make the game at least a little bit fun and ride out whats here. You all realize the players is what stagnated the game, not Alex or game mechanics.

Everyone is saying whales benefit from this. Not many people mention that with the pollution changes, it makes it real hard to keep resource and manufacturing improvements at high levels. Sure, they have more slots for the building caps, but when 1/4 of your population is killed by pollution, your bottom line suffers a lot. There was no Increase on the cap for recycling centers and hospitals right? I don't know and I'm too lazy to check. This update threw a wrench into every nation no matter how big they are. The fun part is figuring out how to balance everything.

European historians have recently uncovered proof of the existence of ties between House York and Crusader entities. The first hint toward a wider affiliation was of the discovery of the ancient treaty between the Order of the White Rose and the Knights Templar known as the Cyprus Accords. After a week of intensive investigations it has come to light that House York had a discreet treaty with the Teutons as well. After only a brief moment of translation, it was discovered to read as such: ~oOo~ The Northern Gardener Accords On this 8th of July, enamored both of us were, by the beauty brought to bear of God’s most wondrous creations. By the sweat of our brow we have cultivated these grand displays for the glory of our Lord. Might these Gardens be blessed by the efforts of both our hands. May we Gardeners nurse our lands to immaculate health! Whether it be the Gardens of House York or the Gardens of Mainau Palace, we will enrapture all the world by our glorious displays of agricultural wonder! I.Black-Thumb Antidote The Gardeners agree to never sabotage one another’s Gardens. Should an instance of troubles plague our Gardens by the hands of One Gardener or another, it shall be handled discreetly and in a timely manner. II. Green-Thumb Insurance Whether it be the soil used to nourish most effectively our lands or the frequency of watering said lands, all secrets relating to the health of our Gardens shall be shared by the Gardeners. III. Defense Against the Dark Arts Should one Garden fall under the curse of a witch, the Gardeners will mount a most holy defense in prayer and careful agriculture. IV. End of a Season Should the season of our cooperation end, one Gardener must contact the other in a discreet manner 72 hours prior to the nullification of our most holy project. Signatories: Council Prime - Sval Legate of Foreign Affairs - Aurelian Legate of Economics - Luis Legate of Internal Affairs - Gonzalo Legate of Defence - Arnout Proconsul of Potatoes - Delacroix Government Hochmeister ~ Beatrix Kiddo Grosskomtur ~ Victor Truchev & Alataq Crowns Crown of War ~ Victor Truchev Crown of Diplomacy ~ Victor Truchev Crown of Commerce ~ Alataq Crown of Hospitality ~ Malichy Crown of Procurement ~ Botan Abe ~oOo~ It certainly was not the treaty anybody was expecting.

the best part about this is that he can't even take on raiders with his own alliance, he feels the need to call big bad daddy TKR to take care of us for them.

Naturally, since it's not a treaty or a bot, it's only to be expected for you to not understand it. But the thing is, you can't really have bots playing this game, and that's the only thing that would still play this game if it didn't have war aspect. I like it how you think that having a big vocabulary and punctual grammar somehow makes you correct in everything, when really, you're just a raging 12-year-old on the inside. And the best part is how you're ruinning both yourself, your alliance (and tehnically non-esistant reputation of both) in your personal vendeta against "big bad pirates ruining things". Get real, and grow up, we're pretty much the only thing keeping this game alive, otherwise everyone'd die of boredom. And to add up to my previous point, ruinning yourself for personal vendeta is kindoff my thing, glad you fight against the wickedness and evilness of us pirates, by doing the exact same thing... I know they say fight fire with fire, but come on, it's far more effective to fight it with water or any other substance that drains oxygen rapidly. But hey, it's your own image you're defamating, who am I to stop you. Keep on keeping on, being a 2nd rate salt mine with 3rd rate insults and wittycism. So, to sum up my elaborate and profound insult and satire of you; "Ye blasted, seahagshaggin' deckboy, as interestin' as a rusty razor stuck in boot of wormriddled carcass of Bootleg, surrounded by mermaids an' krakens in Davy Jones' locker. Arrgh!"

Je suis LPS

And while I'm here, add color stock back to the game to give competition between colors and potentially form cross-sphere ties. Make it bring in a lot of money to get really competitive.

So this idea is to adress the concerns about small nations and upwards mobility, yet the argument that it will help large nations more, thereby accomplishing the exact opposite, is silly?

So I raise a valid point, you respond with sarcasm to dodge the question, and then distance yourself from it by saying "don't take it seriously"? Are you here to actually get a community response or just to absolve yourself of responsibility when you implement this by saying you took community input? Furthermore, I never said that you should punish whales, and I have no idea where you drew that conclusion from. Not giving whales an advantage over newer nations is not the same as punishing whales, and I would much appreciate if you refrained from equating it as such. I simply suggested to reduce to infra price across the board or leave it alone, something that would impact every player equally. Now I await your response in which you further prove that you have chosen a side before the poll even started.

I heavily support this. It accomplishes the same thing as this suggestion.

All infra should just be free once you get to 18 cities, and all players with 20 cities or more should get paid to build infra.

So what you're saying is Germans don't hold up their end of agreements and will try to kill you. I see. Explains the Jew thing I suppose. Thinking on it the Germans have consistently shown their want to take over Europe/World and not with just WW1 and WW2. Even today they aim to conquer in the guise of the EU. What drives Germans to be so dominating? What makes German culture so barbaric? Huh. Perhaps that explains the love with cultural enrichment... ummm... perhaps they wish to make themselves more efficient, crueler, and colder than ever before. Hitler too was said to be a fan of Islam for providing it's people with so called strength unlike the weakness that inhabited Germany. Utterly disgusting. Is nothing beneath the Germans? Hitler was bad enough but now they are trying to upgrade themselves via Muslim enhancements? Where will it end with them? Anyway... Those were meaner times to put it lightly and Germany was one of those nations that didn't have much in the way of colonial land. If them and Belgium are anything to go by it seems like those who had limited land are much more monstrous in their treatment. Bigger boys got it out of the system and realised that to keep ordered and good functioning lands you need a softer hand. Though Denmark was another with limited lands and as far as I know they weren't eating babies so it ain't a perfect observation.

I'm not a game developer, so I'm probably not the best theorist to say anything here. However, on the surface, I like the idea because there would be less risk to getting into conflict. It would probably make for more smaller skirmishes. Sounds like a fun change tbh.

Or don't take 500 million of private debt and get upset when even though you're gov the alliance won't bail you out when you are constantly entering vacation mode/threatening to delete.

*whale noises*

Well, you certainly did one thing right, and that's having a protector since day one. Lots of micros fail to do this, and that's why they fail overall. Seems like you're off to a good start. Wish you luck.

Shoutouts to *clears throat*: Restius: man we had a ton of adventures in trying to manage CS together. Never a dull moment. Thank you good sir. Senatorius: we were on each other's side, we fought against each other in a war, we were on each other's side again, we co-managed CS, never a dull moment, very good times. Les Paul Supreme: you're not reading this but I follow your world travels on Facebook. You'll make a great doctor someday. Thank you for everything my old friend. Britishdude: I know you probably don't like me anymore, but thank you for that fateful email we all received back in 2014 announcing the CCC's next chapter as Cornerstone. It has been fun and changed my life. Kastor: we rarely saw eye to eye, but man you definitely make the game more interesting and I'm proud to see all you've accomplished and the journey you've made along side so many PnW veterans. Aristide: you have developed as a leader from this game. Great work brother. Glad to serve next to you and you were a great GP. Rache: we'll talk more on FB for sure. You've got this man. Go get em! Beowulf: same as Rache. Brimstone: we didn't talk much but man I'll miss you. Piast: we need to make sure we keep in touch on Facebook or some other SM platform. Always loved seeing your commentary on current issues lol. RedPhx: always loved that we could disagree about RL politics and never once let that drive a wedge between us. Retekan: will miss you man Alexius: great serving alongside you in so many wars Aliyan: I'll miss you too man. When I first saw a Muslim guy applying to CS I thought you must have gotten lost, lol, but it's great having you with us and I'll miss you man. SRD: good fighting next to you in countless wars and learning from you man. Fraggle: love your late night forum rants/monologues. Never change. Curu: you guys were the best allies an alliance could ever ask for. Thank you. Roq: glad to get to know you guys more recently and see that you're not who and what all your haters claimed you were. Great being allied with you guys. Aerys: same as Roq and Curu. Thanks for all the good times. Z1GB1G: come back to us. To those I forgot: I'll miss you too, even our enemies. Thanks everyone for everything, this whole adventure was a class act.

Ultimately, what does this update do? I am not talking about the OP, I do not believe the game and it's players will simply change in the fashion that Alex wants them to, but, realistically, what would it achieve? More expensive resources. Less money. Fewer or shorter wars, depending on strategy. More improvements needed to maintain production levels. Struggles with pollution and disease. All of this will simply force the entire game to slow down, but be slowest for those at the bottom and fastest, but still somewhat slower though arguably of minimal difference, for those at the top. It will probably all work as it did before, everyone making probably the same moves as they would have otherwise, but just at a much slower pace. But just how slow it gets is anyone's guess. Perhaps too slow for some, or many. Either way, this is Alex's game and he can do what he likes with it, and no one has to like it either. But I cannot say I know of many players that enjoy a slow game. In the end, people play games for the entertainment, and a slow game is not the most entertaining.

You picked a bad day. Everybody is busy running around with their hair on fire because of the update. As such, this probably won't see as much attention as it normally would. Nevertheless, congratulations on forming. Y'all look like you might have some potential, so good luck.

The only thing that can be said for certain is that now the wars will be costlier: 1) More slots needed to achieve same production -> More infra per city needed -> Infra rebuilding costs go up -> Infra rebuilding takes longer 2) Less production of resources overall -> Smaller warchest development given the same amount of time -> Warchest rebuilding takes longer So this update will encourage either snoozefests or shorter wars.

That was pretty painful, and I say that as a member of the 1%, This must be real interesting for you small nations and alliances that aren't made up of huge ass whales like Grumpy. I think long term this will be good for the market, if I had to guess it will set the market back to prices seen 1.5-2.5 years ago. As for you guys complaining about an advantage? Really? lost income/resources for a few turns is a real gamebreaker... Even tho it sucks, I think this will really make for some more dynamic game play, good work sheeps.

Playerbase: It takes too long to save up for war, which results in boring periods of stagnation Sheepy: Resources are now twice as hard to produce!

At least I can just blame Oblige now.

I don't like it but I understand. I do like how cities can't be perfect anymore, even if it is upsetting. I'm sure people will find more optimal paths but making it so everyone isn't always 115% commerce, 0 pollution, 0 crime, 0 disease will be nice to see.

Aw, thanks for the kind words <3

In a good way.

Congratulations to both of our allies!

In member count. Congratulations, guys! Nothing suspicious about this at all.

understandable have a nice day