The Problem with Ronny's META™ (Poll included)

[J Kell]

The Problem with Ronny's META™

By

@J Kell

Sponsored by

@zevfer

Da META™ defined: Metapolitics (sometimes written meta-politics) is metalinguistic talk about politics; a political dialogue about politics itself. In this mode, metapolitics takes on various forms of inquiry, appropriating to itself another way toward the discourse of politics and the political. It assumes a self-conscious role of mediating the analytic, synthetic, and normative language of political inquiry and politics itself. (source)

 

AKA

The self-imposed rules the players play by when engaging in in-game politics.

 

@Sweeeeet Ronny D's comment reflects  the worst attitude you can have in a gaming community; a repulsion to change. Ronny wants us to keep the “Da META™” because he, along with a few dozen other players, has spent over seven years creating it. It’s a handcrafted set of rules that these players hold close to their hearts. Why shouldn’t they? These players have put hundreds and thousands of hours molding “Da RULES™” into their liking. I have been asked by many to explain why should we challenge/change these rules? They are well established and the players of Orbis have been taught they are the moral law while those that go against it are disruptive to the game.

 

            We have been blessed here on Orbis with the arrival of thousands of new players. Newer players, having been taught “Da META™," and after two years of exploring, are realizing just how stagnate the politics in Orbis are because of “Da META™.” These views are reflective in various polls and the increase in raiding and pirates in Orbis. New players are disengaging with the politics of Orbis because “Da META™” began being built by some 50 players when the game had less than five thousand regular users. We now have nearly three times that number of active players.  The view Ronny espouses expressly ignores the new players’ desire to change the way the game is played because “they were here first.” The new established players should be allowed to have a voice, and they have numbers that the old guard does not have. The old guard needs to reckon with the fact that they are leading spheres filled with members who do not agree with them. Let’s hope moving forward we can have a debate on the merits and not the “I was here first” debate.

            I am working on other responses to Keezgo and the whole “bi-polar era was terrible” argument. Can I please reiterate something that @Kevanovia has said for me multiple times, I am not saying the before NPO times were amazing and perfect, I’m giving my vision for the game that I think will help it grow. I do think that it was better before NPO, but do not conflate that by stating I want things to “revert” back.

 

I Await Your Discord...

 

 

 

 

Edited February 17, 2022 by J Kell

[Joe Schmo]

I feel orbis politics is stagnant, but I wouldn't wholly blame grumpy for it. I would blame everyone for not taking risky moves in general, because risk-aversion isn't a problem exclusive to grumpy.

[J Kell]

Just now, Joe Schmo said:

I feel orbis politics is stagnant, but I wouldn't wholly blame grumpy for it. I would blame everyone for not taking risky moves in general, because risk-aversion isn't a problem exclusive to grumpy.

Of course not. @Sweeeeet Ronny D just so happened to be the first person I saw argue this. I do not target just him.

[Changeup]

NPhObia is certainly stagnating politics. IMO There's only been one really notable war since that time, Guns and Roses, but ultimately it had minimal long term consequences and as such the cycle of relatively bland wars continues. It's certainly possible for this game to have rivalries that are purely IC, and for there to be villains that aren't trying to destroy the game. People aren't stepping up to the plate because everyone is afraid of being rolled the instant they grow marginally larger than another sphere, or being called toxic for imposing peace terms and trying to gain any competitive edge.

[Jacob Knox]

There has rarely been a case in history where contrarianism and challenging the established order have not led to something good. Something better than the current status of society. The shackles of society are made to be broken. The clay of humanity's mentality designed to be flexible and fluid. Overcoming PTSD and phobias are extraordinarily difficult, don't get me wrong, but shall we allow them to force our metapolitics into stagnation or shall we face it head on to encourage the change Orbis needs?

"So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is... fear itself—nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance" - Franklin Delano Roosevelt (1933).

[Sweeeeet Ronny D]

Calling me out like this isn't going to help you persuade me to listen to what you are saying. 

I haven't seen any sort of solutions from you beyond individual alliances should be individual, which could work once until someone bigger comes along, and that smaller alliance needs to make allies to be able to fight back.

You want me to change my mind, give me some good actual solutions to your complaints.

[Kevanovia]

Why am I being pinged?

 

Edited February 17, 2022 by Kevanovia

[Aden]

I agree that there's flaws in the system now (as there will be in any system) and i agree that we shouldn't let the past hold us back from discovering new ideas on how to play and that the new players should be encouraged to give their thoughts as they might bring something new to the table .however i think the veterans should still be leading the way making sure to block any bad system ideology as they simply have more experience although i agree with 'they should be  open minded ', as to the 'new system' it has pros nd cons, like literally any other system even irl, while we should point out the cons nd suggest solutions i think taking a step back to a system that - has the potential to kill the game- is not the best idea (I'm not saying a scenario like NPO would happen everytime in the old system I'm just saying the likelihood of it happening is way higher due to obvious reasons)

I think this is truly a better system if given enough time and as long as we're trying to improve it, we'll eventually see the full potential maybe coming back to the forums, encouraging FAs to be spicy nd go public go crazy - from different alliances - could help with the meta problems as of new players i believe these forum posts are a great way to get the new players engaged they can learn a lot through the debates here and follow along and once they understand nd care enough they'll be joining. But yeah I'm big on the forums coming back and the debates and new theories nd suggestions i think it's the way forward - first srs post hope i didn't fk it up-

Edited February 17, 2022 by Aden

[Buorhann]

What's the argument?

[Bezzers]

Its hard to see what you're getting at here but tldr seems to be wars are stagnate and mean nothing, the system is flawed and the few who put it in place are reluctant to change it.

 

Once you've had a war like NPOLT and the genuine pressure faced in the wars leading up to that point of course things seem a little lacklustre afterwards. There is no 'villain' in orbis right now. There shouldn't be, that was a terrible place to be in and it drove so many players away completely. Wars shouldn't have to feel like a fight for preservation to have meaning, and the introduction of minispheres and the diversity of being able to fight who you want without getting dog piled is a good way to make war about having fun again. We saw some of that spirit before NPOLT, Chaos and Hedge (am I remembering the name right) championed that desire for diversity before minispheres were really a thing and look where it got them within the two sphere political landscape. 

 

That being said minispheres don't appear to be perfect at all, wars could do with standing for a little more, I agree. It's a fair shake better than what was happening back in the dual sphere dynamic though, that's for sure. 

 

I know you're not saying that dual sphere was better but what I'm trying to get at is that maybe people don't want to change right now, just because this is far better than what we had. Without any solid ideas on another landscape to try, we have nowhere to go right now. Whatever the sphere leaders decide to do needs to be well thought out though.

I've seen single alliance 'spheres' brought up and that is just a terrible idea for a multitude of reasons, and this post is long enough with me barely saying anything as it is.

[Big Brother]

12 hours ago, Jacob Knox said:

There has rarely been a case in history where contrarianism and challenging the established order have not led to something good.

I'm as big a fan of contrarianism and challenging the established order as the next guy (perhaps even more so) but examples of the nature you describe are most definitely not rare. Just from the top of my head, the French revolution is an excellent example of contrarianism and challenging the established order and it most certainly led to some pretty dark, nasty and brutal things happening. Some good things might have come along as a result as well but unfortunately that doesn't erase all the bad things that happened.

[BelgiumFury]

13 hours ago, Bezzers said:

Once you've had a war like NPOLT and the genuine pressure faced in the wars leading up to that point of course things seem a little lacklustre afterwards.

Yeah this.
I (and "many" others i know) became compeltly numb to this game after NPOLT. You could delete all my cities tomorrow and i wouldn't even care. What can (for a rose member like me) top a nine month war where tens of friends left the game, and all of rose was reformed under valk's leadership before NPO mass deleted with cheating scandals.

That being said I certainly am not against meta changes. But I feel this point is really important.

[Zei-Sakura Alsainn]

3 hours ago, BelgiumFury said:

Yeah this.
I (and "many" others i know) became compeltly numb to this game after NPOLT. You could delete all my cities tomorrow and i wouldn't even care. What can (for a rose member like me) top a nine month war where tens of friends left the game, and all of rose was reformed under valk's leadership before NPO mass deleted with cheating scandals.

That being said I certainly am not against meta changes. But I feel this point is really important.

"I don't care anymore" is not the defense you folks are propping it up to be. Its amazing to say it makes the argument presented in the OP stronger because, despite agreeing with it, there isn't one here.

I only know what it's talk about because I've held this opinion for a looooooong time before it recently became popular, and so I've kept up with the other topics.

I mean hell half of the posts are random strawmen nobody mentioned. To be fair, again, it's not like much of anything specific was mentioned. Some fault lies with the messenger when he leaves it so open ended. 

I agree though, that point is important, but I think my reason for why it's important is different from yours. I think it's important because it exemplifies to me, the exact problem. Here you are, despite not caring anymore. That's fine, your perojative and all, but with that being the case - kindly consider - MOVE !@#$, GET OUT THE WAY. Don't make me gravedig that old meme from YouTube.

Infact I'd even argue that trauma and lack of care is exactly why this problem exists at all. So give it to people who aren't. After all, you don't really care much anymore, your own words. What's there's to lose, or be concerned over? 

Only people I've seen really defending this are either those who no longer care, supposedly, but for some reason have become ressurected zombies blocking the road - or - they are the direct primary beneficiary from the boring, stale status quo. 

 

There's two things you learn in Anarchy school. The first thing is that a good story requires tension and stakes, otherwise it's dry filler nonsense. The second, is to never, ever, trust old geezers in closed off rooms benefitting from a status quo. Just don't do it. 

Edited February 18, 2022 by Zei-Sakura Alsainn

[Buorhann]

If the community wants to go back to a two sphere game, it could be easily arranged and you’ll see how tiresome it’ll get quickly.

[J Kell]

22 minutes ago, Buorhann said:

If the community wants to go back to a two sphere game, it could be easily arranged and you’ll see how tiresome it’ll get quickly.

That is not and has not been what I or anyone else has been advocating for. 

 

This is what we are advocating for

Edited February 18, 2022 by J Kell

[Sweeeeet Ronny D]

Should the meta be ignored?  great, what does that mean?  Not liking something doesn't accomplish anything.  You dont like it? come up with a plan to change it, and get people on board.  Constantly complaining about the meta doesn't get you anything besides people eventually tuning you out.

 

You must be happy that we tossed a bunch of terms on tS just a few days ago!

 

[J Kell]

25 minutes ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said:

You dont like it? come up with a plan to change it, and get people on board.

Deal.

[Jacob Knox]

4 hours ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said:

You must be happy that we tossed a bunch of terms on tS just a few days ago!

I actually did find it refreshing to see some terms for once (including some meme-ish ones). Ever since I've been in the game (a year and a half), all I've really seen is "White peace, wars allowed to finish as combatants see fit, NAP (not always)." That has been boring as hell.

[BelgiumFury]

17 hours ago, Zei-Sakura Alsainn said:

I agree though, that point is important, but I think my reason for why it's important is different from yours. I think it's important because it exemplifies to me, the exact problem. Here you are, despite not caring anymore. That's fine, your perojative and all, but with that being the case - kindly consider - MOVE !@#$, GET OUT THE WAY. Don't make me gravedig that old meme from YouTube.

Infact I'd even argue that trauma and lack of care is exactly why this problem exists at all. So give it to people who aren't. After all, you don't really care much anymore, your own words. What's there's to lose, or be concerned over? 

If you think i hold any real power or have anything to move away from you're mistaken. I am (outside of interally inside of rose) one of the least influential people who frequents this forum. That being said i have proposed meme wars, in private just because they would be funny. I do not believe the personal attack here  is fair. I am open for meta changes, and i certainly am not the big puppet master stopping them. All I am saying is that people who are very pro changing meta this or that do not seem to remember that there are reasons why it is what it is. And certainly do not seem very concerned about looking into the concerns that people have listed.

[SleepingNinja]

On 2/16/2022 at 11:22 PM, Sweeeeet Ronny D said:

Calling me out like this isn't going to help you persuade me to listen to what you are saying. 

I haven't seen any sort of solutions from you beyond individual alliances should be individual, which could work once until someone bigger comes along, and that smaller alliance needs to make allies to be able to fight back.

You want me to change my mind, give me some good actual solutions to your complaints.

Solution : Don't be allied to the same alliance for 7 years. Yes I'm aware you signed Guardian in 2019. I'm also aware you've never fought against Guardian before & have been on their side in every global you've participated in. That's stagnation at it's finest. Literally Changeup.

[Hodor]

Did I miss the definition of the meta? Haven't we been arguing for forever about what the optimal environment for the game is? Unless I've been living under a rock, the "meta" is far from settled or agreed upon. Tell me what the current "meta" or "rules" are.

[Keegoz]

People arguing on the forums to change the meta. Stop complaining and go lead an alliance to make it happen.

[Majima Goro]

Meta this, meta that
Have you ever met-a-girl irl?

[BelgiumFury]

On 2/20/2022 at 2:16 AM, Keegoz said:

People arguing on the forums to change the meta. Stop complaining and go lead an alliance to make it happen.

that certainly is a way of doing it

It's probably the way I'd try to do it if I really wanted to change the meta. (I don't mind it changing but if it doesn't change that's fine too). But I'd say in general public campaigns for what you believe in add some spice to orbis. 

[Firwof Kromwell]

On 2/20/2022 at 9:30 AM, Majima Goro said:

Meta this, meta that
Have you ever met-a-girl irl?