Shiho Nishizumi Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 There's nothing noble in wanting to incur disproportionate infra turnover on the foe relative to oneself. Wanting no toxicity is good but it goes out of the window when labels start to be applied. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrienne Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 @Sweeeeet Ronny D The "you guys don't realize you lost the war but you think you're the victims" narrative doesn't really work for you. You're also the only ones claiming we think ourselves the victim; I'm fairly certain we've never called ourselves that, me sarcastically throwing that argument back at you earlier aside. If you want to characterize us defending ourselves politically and calling out your side's hypocrisy of claiming you're doing minispheres while all the while entering into secret treaties with all the remaining spheres as us playing the victim, you're welcome to. But lol. 1 hour ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said: I remember back then when we were deciding what to do with our FA, we were like there is no way TKR and tS team up (and I believe you were trying to pull in TI as well), they have to realize that they will be so much stronger than everyone else. It was one of the reasons G/G didn't join tS's sphere at the time, because it would have been unfair to have all that upper tier power consolidated in one spot. Your FA moves broadcasted the message that tS/TKR are good with smaller spheres as long as they are the biggest and strongest out of all of them. That may not have been your intention (which i think is generous, because I think it was) but every other alliance and or bloc that is heavily involved in world politics knew it. There's no way you were thinking this as this statement shows a complete disconnect with the actual status of the world at the time you would have been making FA decisions. We were already allied to both t$ and TI before the end of NPOLT. So no, we weren't trying to pull in TI. We were already allies. Following the abrupt end of that war, we had to sort out what to do and there were tons and tons of conversations and debates over that and decisions and cuts made. If you think at all that our intention was to be the biggest and strongest of all spheres and that's the only way we were good with minispheres, I think 1. you don't actually know us at all or are conveniently forgetting for the sake of your arguments here and/or 2. your own paranoia is as strong as you keep claiming Partisan's is. We could have very easily done just that if we had wanted to. It was fairly easily recognizable to anyone that actually bothered to think about it and consider it honestly though that we were making an effort but that doesn't fit your narrative for this war or your belief that t$ has it out for you so of course you didn't do that. 1 hour ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said: I am not here to tell you who you can and cannot be allied to, but just like I understand that the combined upper tier power of Grumpy and Guardian is a threat to everyone else and that makes us a target.... You know the only way you guys ever lose a war is if most if not all of the smaller spheres put aside their own agendas and actually come together to attack you which is pretty damn difficult to do, and why it didn't happen until you forced us all to do it when you guys militarized. 1. We didn't force you to do anything, you already had secret treaties in place well before this war started, as shown by several conversations with leaders on your side. 2. You and Guardian, by your own admission even, have the single most powerful upper tier in the game, no matter which way you slice it. You can't actually claim we're unbeatable when, with your single "small" sphere, you can completely incapacitate our upper tier. If we're pretending that's not the source of the majority of an alliance's economic power and you have the ability to crush that and force expensive rebuilds, that's disingenuous af. You just choose to hide your power by maintaining a smaller sphere. 3. We've already been over the "BUT WE NEEDED ALL THREE SPHERES" screeching your side has done and no, you didn't. The numbers do not in any way support that. Wanting all three spheres and needing all three spheres are completely different things. You wanted all three spheres expressly to make it a dogpile and minimize the damages done to your side, of which your alliance in particular disproportionately reaps the benefits of compared to the rest of your allies/coalition mates, and/or because you lacked confidence in your abilities or of those you'd be fighting alongside. But you didn't need them all. And if you think you did, as one member of your coalition put it... 8 hours ago, Leftbehind said: Sounds like I have more faith in your abilities than you do. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegoz Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 3 hours ago, Dionysus said: Are you using the "play dumb" FA tactic now? That's beneath you. You know it shows plenty. 1. Precedent. Rose and Swamp worked together (or rather certain aspects were "controlled" by them). You tied TI knowing this. 2. Gives more legitimacy to our suspicions that this backroom rub and tug has been going on for much longer than our militarization. 3. Makes your "Quack man bad Quack man smart and big and threat argument look like a joke. Please. Rose, one of the oldest and most well established alliances had their hands all over the strings of certain parties in Swamp and you.. somehow saw that as less of a threat than big bad Sphinx and his outstanding military reputation? That leads me to point 4. All this adds up quite nicely, if I'm honest. With your history with Rose in mind, you ignoring their attempts to control another sphere makes sense. Attacking tCW because you knew Sphinx would fold and follow whatever you/whoever was put in charge of him said, smart play. At that point you're already in control of/friendly with/bedding more than half the game. Next, you sow distrust (PARTISAN MAN EVIL SCHEMER comes to mind) while refusing to actually substantiate it with any evidence, and make Quack the big bad mutual enemy. I knew you had an affinity for stealthy backrubs in the darkness of night, but you've impressed me this time. Demonize us for "ruining minispheres" all you like, but I'd take a look at your actions first. Unless you want to keep playing dumb, of course. You literally showed a log that proceeded me outlining why I wanted to sign TI over other alliances because I was worried about Rose's influence. One that was then cancelled once tCW was dealt with. Boyce and this, you really are struggling to keep this cb afloat. As for the rest, I'm truly glad we're back to this forum being wild conspiracy theories with no evidence. Don't forget your tinfoil hat friend. Let's call this for what it is. A poor excuse and distraction from your FA failings and a cb that is being made up on the run. You'd rather blame others and make up wild stories than accept you made mistakes. If you don't think you've made any mistakes though, continue on your current course. 1 4 Quote [11:52 PM] Prefontaine: But Keegoz is actually bad. [11:52 PM] Prefontaine: He's my favorite bad leader though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Kurdanak Posted December 17, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted December 17, 2020 2 hours ago, Dionysus said: Are you using the "play dumb" FA tactic now? That's beneath you. You know it shows plenty. 1. Precedent. Rose and Swamp worked together (or rather certain aspects were "controlled" by them). You tied TI knowing this. 2. Gives more legitimacy to our suspicions that this backroom rub and tug has been going on for much longer than our militarization. 3. Makes your "Quack man bad Quack man smart and big and threat argument look like a joke. Please. Rose, one of the oldest and most well established alliances had their hands all over the strings of certain parties in Swamp and you.. somehow saw that as less of a threat than big bad Sphinx and his outstanding military reputation? That leads me to point 4. All this adds up quite nicely, if I'm honest. With your history with Rose in mind, you ignoring their attempts to control another sphere makes sense. Attacking tCW because you knew Sphinx would fold and follow whatever you/whoever was put in charge of him said, smart play. At that point you're already in control of/friendly with/bedding more than half the game. Next, you sow distrust (PARTISAN MAN EVIL SCHEMER comes to mind) while refusing to actually substantiate it with any evidence, and make Quack the big bad mutual enemy. I knew you had an affinity for stealthy backrubs in the darkness of night, but you've impressed me this time. Demonize us for "ruining minispheres" all you like, but I'd take a look at your actions first. Unless you want to keep playing dumb, of course. You know, I was bored and trying to think up some cheap jokes towards this whole Rose puppeting Swamp thing, stumbled upon this, the swamp rose: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosa_palustris Theory confirmed amiright? lol, cool plant though, might as well keep reading - woah, “it is a host of the blinded sphinx moth” Haha now that’s a funny coincidence, not like there’s anything past that though But wait what’s that right there https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paonias_excaecatus "Primary food sources for the larvae are deciduous trees such as willows, birch and cherries, as well as shrubberies, like ninebark and roses" Shrubberies?? Line a few of those bad boys up, what do you get? A hedge Hold on a minute...ninebark? NINE? Alliance rank #9, Children of the Light, Keegoz, moths are attracted to light, Sphinx moth, my god just how deep does this go yikes, I’m feeling pretty swamped by all of this, am just rambling nonsense at this point - imma head out before you all think I’m just some quack HOLD UP WHAT DID I JUST- 3 3 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrienne Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 9 minutes ago, Keegoz said: You literally showed a log that proceeded me outlining why I wanted to sign TI over other alliances because I was worried about Rose's influence. One that was then cancelled once tCW was dealt with. Boyce and this, you really are struggling to keep this cb afloat. And then continued to have a secret treaty with them afterwards, let's not skip over that. We're not struggling to keep our CB afloat in the slightest. You lot have doing it pretty well for us all throughout this conflict and our chats in private tbh. The ties between the three spheres have been confirmed by your side so you can pretend you dropped TI if you want but considering you guys have confirmed that relationship continued to exist afterwards, it doesn't mean much. 11 minutes ago, Keegoz said: As for the rest, I'm truly glad we're back to this forum being wild conspiracy theories with no evidence. Don't forget your tinfoil hat friend. Let's call this for what it is. A poor excuse and distraction from your FA failings and a cb that is being made up on the run. You'd rather blame others and make up wild stories than accept you made mistakes. If you don't think you've made any mistakes though, continue on your current course. > I'm going to distract from the fact we built up a network of secret treaties by dismissing everything as conspiracy theories and paranoia and then reiterate my stance that it's all your fault, my coalition is perfect and faultless and justified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Prefonteen Posted December 17, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted December 17, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, Akuryo said: Forming a 1,000 man death squad is not a risk. Signing a new but large alliance and t$ in the wake of NPOLT (with rose meant to be in it too) with the expectation of a united front against IQ later, was not a risk. There was nothing risky about it, the entire POINT of that was to ELIMINATE as much as risk as possible by ensuring it would be everyone v IQ from day 1 the next time around. If you feel CoTL hasn't been at risk sicne the NAP, guess what - unlike you that's not from having 1,000 people in our sphere backing us up. That's from actually doing the kind of FA leg work you didn't. You might say you did, your opponents seem to disagree, I'm inclined to take their decision making and actions as an accurate indication that they feel you didn't. Paranoia and denial over your own failure in FA to properly understand and anticipate the viewpoints and concerns of others, does not mean there's a cabal of secret treaties against you. I'm struggling real hard not to pull out the obvious real world comparison because I know I shouldn't, but you people are making that very difficult. You quoted some leaked HM logs but conveniently left the ones out about us literally talking about hitting Rose, as if there's never been friction anywhere else, as if you correctly assessing the world and downsizing prior to the war would not have seen, in high likelihood, two concurrent globals at once. No problem is one sided, there are multiple faults, it's true. But even saying that all it takes for that to remain true is to be 99.9% one's fault and 0.1 the other. If you're lucky you're running maybe an 85 here. Anyway, whole world's made it's opinion and concerns very obvious now. Your options are to continue challenging my restraint on IRL comparisons and deny reality and spin conspiracies, or accept reality and respond accordingly to it. If you deny reality I know where most people put their bets on that leading. Accept it, and we get a pandora's box of a future. Up to you now, swamp hacked itself apart, balls in your court. @Cooper_ That's a wrap to this 8 pages of a surrender thread for me lmao. 3 hours ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said: For the record I have no idea how to multiquote because computers are hard. 1. Why would we ever go for a Quack only nap? You realize you lost the war right? It really seems like you guys don't realize this, (It's why I insisted on the surrender document reference your surrender, since the original draft didn't) why would we allow you to attack us, then give you months to rebuild without any worry about getting attacked while the rest of us are vulnerable to attack, in what world does that make sense? It's interesting that you bring up Post Knightfall, when you guys dropped us and we had to scramble and look for new allies, you remember we all managed to completely revamp our FA without a NAP right? Didn't need 6 months/4 months/3 months or even 1 day of a NAP, we did it with the possibility that we could be hit at any time. You don't need a NAP to revamp your FA. The fact that you guys had the balls to ask for a 6 month one sided nap for your bloc is delusional, honestly I believe Quack was taking advantage of our kindness during the peace process by dragging out negotiations over the length of a completely unnecessary NAP. 2. You aren't the victims here, give it a break, Post Knightfall any talk of TKR being hedgemonic was laughable, Pre Knightfall, we were, I say we where allies then, TKR's sphere was the premier world power for years at the time. I know you want to cry it loud and proud across the world that Quack is the victim in this war, but outside the hallowed halls of Quack, no one is buying it. Maybe you do it to help your internals, us against the world is a strong message for your members to rally around, but everyone else is rolling their eyes. 3. Again are you guys delusional? When two of the top 5 alliances in the game ally each other, (I think it was top 3 at the time but ill give you the benefit of doubt here, considering one of those alliances was TCW) You automatically became the big dog on campus. I remember back then when we were deciding what to do with our FA, we were like there is no way TKR and tS team up (and I believe you were trying to pull in TI as well), they have to realize that they will be so much stronger than everyone else. It was one of the reasons G/G didn't join tS's sphere at the time, because it would have been unfair to have all that upper tier power consolidated in one spot. Your FA moves broadcasted the message that tS/TKR are good with smaller spheres as long as they are the biggest and strongest out of all of them. That may not have been your intention (which i think is generous, because I think it was) but every other alliance and or bloc that is heavily involved in world politics knew it. 4 Yeah cool, I get it, its why Grumpy has been allied to Guardian for so long, I pay Memph and Vanek cash under the table every month and we get to stay friends. I am not here to tell you who you can and cannot be allied to, but just like I understand that the combined upper tier power of Grumpy and Guardian is a threat to everyone else and that makes us a target. You have too many experienced players working with you to not know that there are consequences to having tS's sphere of allies and TKR's sphere of allies join together. This is why its so laughable when you try to play the victim. You know the only way you guys ever lose a war is if most if not all of the smaller spheres put aside their own agendas and actually come together to attack you which is pretty damn difficult to do, and why it didn't happen until you forced us all to do it when you guys militarized. 3 hours ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said: Man I wish we were this good at the game, but unfortunately not everything is about you boys, you sound like old BK thinking Ketogg fought Chaos for a month as an excuse to hit them. Buddy, I know you are only 850 days old, but yeah Partisan has a long history of being an evil schemer. Hell back in the first year of PnW he was almost kicked out of his position as leader of tS for getting caught scheming and probably would have been if Impero wasn't such a cocky dick. I have been allied to him, I have brainstormed evil schemes with him. (it's actually quite fun, I think its the best part of being allied to him to be honest) So in the future if I attack you and you beat me in a war, please offer me peace after 3 weeks and make the terms that I have to surrender and you offer me a 3 month nap (I will also probably be ok with 0 nap). Sounds like a terrible precedent to be used against me. I guess it is my fault that we tried to put into practice what we had been trying to do for over 1-2 years now, shorter more frequent wars, without the toxicity. With regards to my persona- yes, i've schemed in the past. As has any relevant FA figure. The only difference is that I have historically been up front about it; about my motivations and about my movements, whereas you choose to shroud yourself in inconsistencies, which then results in the sort of contradictions we've seen this war. What's more concerning to me is that my last scheme was knightfall. After that i've been gone for 10 months, TJEsted (which frankly does not qualify as scheming), ran serious FA to your benefit on behalf of the coalition against IQ during NPOLT, and in the peace period, I have been focused inward. That seems to be a recurring theme Ronny. Might it be that some of your side's backroom movements -referring specifically to specific figures in Rose and HM- are motivated by older grudges and dislikes? 52 minutes ago, Keegoz said: You literally showed a log that proceeded me outlining why I wanted to sign TI over other alliances because I was worried about Rose's influence. One that was then cancelled once tCW was dealt with. Boyce and this, you really are struggling to keep this cb afloat. As for the rest, I'm truly glad we're back to this forum being wild conspiracy theories with no evidence. Don't forget your tinfoil hat friend. Let's call this for what it is. A poor excuse and distraction from your FA failings and a cb that is being made up on the run. You'd rather blame others and make up wild stories than accept you made mistakes. If you don't think you've made any mistakes though, continue on your current course. @ keegoz, aku and ronny- It's pretty crappy to structurally ignore, sidestep and leave out established facts corrobated by yourself and your allies/coalition partners while going pedal to the metal on a narrative that boils down to "ITS NOT TRUE YOU'RE PARANOID" when you've literally just done the thing we're supposedly paranoid about, and when you've stated already in diplomatic channels that the chance exists for it to occur again. It's similarly shitty to pretend you did not spin up a shitty hEgEmOnY narrative back in february (and kept it up for months in backchannels, spilling over into public occasionally), deliberately misrepresented quack's size in the graphs you publicized to anyone who wanted to listen (Pantheon a quack ally? Really?) and maintained under-the-table agreements against us, while simultaneously announcing that your support this war was solely down to quack's behavior. Seriously. You're right. If that's the road you're going to take, we'll be here again in 4 months. I hope we aren't, but it looks to me like you're already beating the drums for it in case Quack has the gal not to split at your demand. I wish you the best of luck with it. I'm available for actual diplomacy in backchannels, as several on your side have experienced. Right now HM is the only party relations are still deteriorating with. And that's frankly down to you. Edited December 17, 2020 by Prefonteen 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenyx Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, Prefonteen said: It's similarly shitty to pretend you did not spin up a shitty hEgEmOnY narrative back in february (and kept it up for months in backchannels, spilling over into public occasionally), deliberately misrepresented quack's size in the graphs you publicized to anyone who wanted to listen (Pantheon a quack ally? Really?) and maintained under-the-table agreements against us, while simultaneously announcing that your support this war was solely down to quack's behavior. Sorry Prefonteen, but I think this is the key thing that you get so very wrong. I'm reminded of a post from Ronny you directed me to in what seems like ages ago, wherein Ronny says the words that your side later turned into an ad: On 11/2/2020 at 9:56 AM, Sweeeeet Ronny D said: I can tell you straight up what has been going on from Grumpy's point of view. Swamp came to HM about a month ago, asking about hitting you guys, and as the leader of Grumpy, I said i would only be on board if Rose was also on board, and Rose said no, so Grumpy was out. While seemingly ignoring everything he said after it. I mean, immediately after the quote turned ad, Ronny deflates that balloon pretty quick: On 11/2/2020 at 9:56 AM, Sweeeeet Ronny D said: After about a week, I assumed the plan died since I didnt hear anything more about it. And perhaps more importantly, Ronny making it clear that these "under the table agreements" you seem to think were around long before your side initiated this global war were in fact only arrived at very shortly before the war and happened precisely because HM and the rest of the spheres saw that you were militarizing and no one wanted to get dogpiled: On 11/2/2020 at 9:56 AM, Sweeeeet Ronny D said: Last week Quack militarized out of the blue, so we militarized and started talking to the other blocs, because we didn't know what they were doing or who they were planning to hit. Swamp and HM basically agreed that if one of us gets hit, we will help the other one because we cant let the strongest bloc in the game start steamrolling the smaller blocs, and we were waiting to see if Rose would also agree. From what I understand Rose didn't jump on the bandwagon till a few hours before you guys attacked on Friday. If we were all on board from the get go, we wouldn't have spend the 2 hours before you attacked frantically trying to decide how we wanted to handle you guys. Edited December 17, 2020 by Phoenyx 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prefonteen Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Phoenyx said: Sorry Prefonteen, but I think this is the key thing that you get so very wrong. I'm reminded of a post from Ronny you directed me to in what seems like ages ago, wherein Ronny says the words that your side later turned into an ad: While seemingly ignoring everything he said after it. I mean, immediately after the quote turned ad, Ronny deflates that balloon pretty quick: He doesn't deflate the balloon. The admission in itself stands, because it directly contradicted the standing narrative of his coalition. He has also reaffirmed multiple times, even when "walking it back", that he did state that he wouldn't join a war on us unless rose is in. That's by definition a greenlight for whomever he spoke to to get rose, and then circle back knowing that ronny is in. It can also (in backchannels) be used to entice rose. So no, I haven't ignored anything. I've explained these things to you before, but you were too occupied with your "investigation" to actually investigate our stance. 7 minutes ago, Phoenyx said: And perhaps more importantly, Ronny making it clear that these "under the table agreements" you seem to think were around long before your side initiated this global war were in fact only arrived at very shortly before the war and happened precisely because HM and the rest of the spheres saw that you were militarizing and no one wanted to get dogpiled: Right, and that's either a direct lie, or Ronny is not up to speed on the things that have occurred in backchannels. Multiple leaders have both in private and in public corrobated these things. Edited December 17, 2020 by Prefonteen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenyx Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Prefonteen said: He doesn't deflate the balloon. The admission in itself stands, because it directly contradicted the standing narrative of his coalition. I still think he deflated the balloon because he makes it clear that this alleged plan on Swamp's part, had it ever actually existed and not been a misinterpretation on Ronnie's part, apparently died out soon after its creation. 9 minutes ago, Prefonteen said: He has also reaffirmed multiple times, even when "walking it back", that he did state that he wouldn't join a war on us unless rose is in. That's by definition a greenlight for whomever he spoke to to get rose, and then circle back knowing that ronny is in. It can also (in backchannels) be used to entice rose. I do agree with you on that point. But it's one thing to say "I'd be willing to go to war with Quack on these conditions" and quite another to actually start planning to go to war with Quack. 9 minutes ago, Prefonteen said: 17 minutes ago, Phoenyx said: And perhaps more importantly, Ronny making it clear that these "under the table agreements" you seem to think were around long before your side initiated this global war were in fact only arrived at very shortly before the war and happened precisely because HM and the rest of the spheres saw that you were militarizing and no one wanted to get dogpiled: Right, and that's either a direct lie, or Ronny is not up to speed on the things that have occurred in backchannels. Multiple leaders have both in private and in public corrobated these things. I see that you have deleted this last part from your previous post. Not sure what that means. I'll just proceed as if you still believe it even though it's no longer in said previous post and respond to it accordingly. I'm glad that you are at least acknowledging a possibility that doesn't involve Ronny lying. As with you, I have never found a point in time where I found Ronny to be trying to deceive. Anyway, I'd certainly welcome seeing any of this evidence against what Ronnie stated. Edited December 17, 2020 by Phoenyx Update due to deletion in post I'm responding to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prefonteen Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Phoenyx said: I still think he deflated the balloon because he makes it clear that this alleged plan on Swamp's part, had it ever actually existed and not been a misinterpretation on Ronnie's part, apparently died out soon after its creation. You can *at best* infer that we can't know if it existed. The public statements of tyrion etc. are not a credible source due to the vested interest they have in any such information if it exists not coming to light. We've been over this. What we do have is the knowledge that an approach was made, the postfacto admissions to deals having been in place, the multi-month period of an anti-quack narrative being built on the back of false metrics (among other things), multiple contradictions among swamp leaders etc. etc. Combining all that paints a pretty clear picture. You've simply chosen to prioritize the words of your leaders over any of that. 28 minutes ago, Phoenyx said: I do agree with you on that point. But it's one thing to say "I'd be willing to go to war with Quack on these conditions" and quite another to actually start planning to go to war with Quack. It really isn't in politics in these games though. Those kinds of conversations are the definition of coalition building. It's where aggressive wars begin, and hence, why it signals aggressive intent. Quote I see that you have deleted this last part from your previous post. Not sure what that means. I'll just proceed as if you still believe it even though it's no longer in said previous post and respond to it accordingly. I'm glad that you are at least acknowledging a possibility that doesn't involve Ronny lying. As with you, I have never found a point in time where I found Ronny to be trying to deceive. Anyway, I'd certainly welcome seeing any of this evidence against what Ronnie stated. I don't know what I supposedly deleted? It's there. It's literally been admitted lmfao.- Swamp admitted to having an agreement in place with HM which preceeded our militarization by *at least* a month, and swamp was previously directly allied to HM. Similarly, The keegoz (prominent ex-rose leader and Cotl/HM gov at the time iirc, who has a history of multiple years working with and for Rose behind the scenes) quote which adam posted the other day suggest rose-swamp movements, albeit more subterfuge. Then we've had ASM corrobate early on in the war that Rose had a deal with swamp in place. Add to that the whole Ronny business you keep trying to dismiss, and you frankly are swimming in evidence suggesting a base level of preexisting coordination that essentially makes this war an inevitability. Quack got whiffs of it prewar, and militarized accordingly. The puzzle pieces fell in place afterward. How we move forward is something we'll have yet to see, but there is absolutely no merit to any claims that quacks moves were anything but responsive in nature. The attempts by keegoz/aku/ronny etc. to shift the narrative away from that collusion by introducing straw-men is well.... just par for the course :). EDIT: Oh I think I know what the confusion re: deleted part is about. I wrote my post in 2 paragraphs, then edited it and moved 1 paragraph up for readability. Afaik the content should be there. Edited December 17, 2020 by Prefonteen 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Hodor Posted December 17, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted December 17, 2020 Just jumping in here as a PSA. I've never seen anyone make Adrienne actually throw insults, so my Christmas gift to you all is simple. Hover over Phoenyx's name, click ignore user: select all and voila! Disclaimer: He will still argue with you and in fact be convinced you are talking to him despite the fact that you will see none of his posts nor address him. This is a bug we've not yet sorted out. 1 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theodosius Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 6 hours ago, Keegoz said: You literally showed a log that proceeded me outlining why I wanted to sign TI over other alliances because I was worried about Rose's influence. One that was then cancelled once tCW was dealt with. Boyce and this, you really are struggling to keep this cb afloat. As for the rest, I'm truly glad we're back to this forum being wild conspiracy theories with no evidence. Don't forget your tinfoil hat friend. Let's call this for what it is. A poor excuse and distraction from your FA failings and a cb that is being made up on the run. You'd rather blame others and make up wild stories than accept you made mistakes. If you don't think you've made any mistakes though, continue on your current course. *looks around* *puts my hat on* I have heard there is a mother in distress present in this location. I have come to rescue. Why are both you and the alleged father (who I'm told is named Abbas) vehemently denying to undergo a DNA test as it pertains to this child of light, born out of wedlock? Would you not wish for the child you have sired to have a father presence, Keegoz? Would that child not benefit from its fatherly figure? What about alimony support? Is he at least sending you a guilt-induced monthly check to keep the baby fed? Is he still harassing you on facebook? I'm happy to take up your case and be your solicitor in this matter. Runaway dads are NO good. 696969-1389, ask for office of the Attorney Drunkface. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenyx Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Prefonteen said: 1 hour ago, Phoenyx said: I still think he deflated the balloon because he makes it clear that this alleged plan on Swamp's part, had it ever actually existed and not been a misinterpretation on Ronnie's part, apparently died out soon after its creation. You can *at best* infer that we can't know if it existed. The public statements of tyrion etc. are not a credible source due to the vested interest they have in any such information if it exists not coming to light. We've been over this. Our definitions of credibility clearly differ. I tend to believe Alliance heads who are active here to say what they believe to be true. For this discussion, this works both to your advantage and disadvantage. It works to your advantage because I've always assumed that you believe that what you are saying is true. It works to your disadvantage because I -also- believe that what -other- Alliance heads who have been active here are saying what they believe to be true. So when Tyrion and Kaz say that their Alliances had no plans to initiate a first strike against Quack, I find those statements to be quite credible, just as I would if you were to say that you had no plans to attack X sphere. This doesn't mean that I wouldn't like even more corroboration, as my ongoing efforts to get someone to tell me who Ronnie's HM leader source was (with rather amusing results when Yang and Dryad managed to pull my leg on that one). But that's a sword that cuts both ways, and has gotten me to repeatedly ask you to try to find out how Boyce came to the conclusion that TCW/HM/Swamp were probably going to attack Quack in December/January. I think there is one thing we can both agree on- those in positions to help clarify the truth on all of this, namely Boyce and Ronnie's HM leader source, have not exactly been very active here since the war started. I finally made contact of sorts with Boyce, through a third party. He hadn't even heard of me, so clearly he hasn't been following the discussions here. When I passed along the thread I made with him in the title, his only response was to downvote it :-p. 1 hour ago, Prefonteen said: What we do have is the knowledge that an approach was made, the postfacto admissions to deals having been in place, the multi-month period of an anti-quack narrative being built on the back of false metrics (among other things), multiple contradictions among swamp leaders etc. etc. What we have is a lot of incomplete information. We have Ronny's HM leader source making an ambiguous statement: ** Time for a chat my friends. Swamp reached out to me and told me they are talking with TCW about joining together to counter Quack's growth. They are extremely uncomfortable with the idea that allowing Quack to grow and waiting for them to magically break up is a good idea. ** Immediately, questions come to mind: For starters, -who- in Swamp reached out to them? And perhaps most importantly, what did they mean when they mentioned Swamp "told [them] they are talking with TCW about joining together to counter Quack's growth?" I felt this was so important that I actually made a thread about it: 1 hour ago, Prefonteen said: 1 hour ago, Phoenyx said: I do agree with you on that point. But it's one thing to say "I'd be willing to go to war with Quack on these conditions" and quite another to actually start planning to go to war with Quack. It really isn't in politics in these games though. Those kinds of conversations are the definition of coalition building. It's where aggressive wars begin, and hence, why it signals aggressive intent. Saying you'd do something if certain conditions were met is not the same thing as actually doing something. If we are to believe Ronnie when he says that Rose only got on board on a -defensive- treaty hours before you guys actually attacked TCW and HM, then not only was there no offensive plans against you involving Rose, there wasn't even any -counter- plans involving Rose until hours before you guys actually attacked TCW/HM. 1 hour ago, Prefonteen said: It's literally been admitted lmfao.- Swamp admitted to having an agreement in place with HM which preceeded our militarization by *at least* a month, and swamp was previously directly allied to HM. A -counter attack- plan was acknowledged to have taken place, not a first strike plan. 1 hour ago, Prefonteen said: Similarly, The keegoz (prominent ex-rose leader and Cotl/HM gov at the time iirc, who has a history of multiple years working with and for Rose behind the scenes) quote which adam posted the other day suggest rose-swamp movements, albeit more subterfuge. I'm not familiar with this post you're referring to, link? 1 hour ago, Prefonteen said: Then we've had ASM corrobate early on in the war that Rose had a deal with swamp in place. What does ASM stand for? In any case, to the rest of your sentence, a defensive coalition in the event that Quack attacked Rose or Swamp, sure, but I've never seen any evidence that Swamp was working on a first strike plan against Quack. On the contrary, this has been strongly denied by both Tyrion and Kaz. 1 hour ago, Prefonteen said: How we move forward is something we'll have yet to see, but there is absolutely no merit to any claims that quacks moves were anything but responsive in nature. Sure, but the question is whether you were responding to a real threat or one based on exaggerated claims and false rumours. I think you know which type most non Quack Alliances think you responded to. 1 hour ago, Prefonteen said: EDIT: Oh I think I know what the confusion re: deleted part is about. I wrote my post in 2 paragraphs, then edited it and moved 1 paragraph up for readability. Afaik the content should be there. Yeah, that was it. I open multiple windows to quote various parts and then go back to my original window to paste. So in my original window, the formatting was different and I didn't see what I'd seen before, thus thought you'd deleted that part. Edited December 17, 2020 by Phoenyx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin076 Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 Me whenever I dare to glace at Phoenyx's posts. 1 Quote Chief Financial Officer of The Syndicate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Prefonteen Posted December 17, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted December 17, 2020 The hegemony, 2020, colorized. 21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redarmy Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 2 hours ago, Phoenyx said: What does ASM stand for? You're really bad at investigating if you can't figure that out 1 3 Quote "Though it starts with a fist it must end with your mind." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenyx Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 5 minutes ago, Redarmy said: You're really bad at investigating if you can't figure that out What is it with you guys and your efforts to make a conversation harder than it needs to be? Anyway, I'll play your guessing game this time around. After a bit of looking, I'm guessing it stands for Advanced Syndicalist Mechanics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeeeet Ronny D Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 11 minutes ago, Redarmy said: You're really bad at investigating if you can't figure that out Honestly if an alliance is not in the top 15-16 alliances, do we really need to know who they are? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurdanak Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 3 minutes ago, Phoenyx said: What is it with you guys and your efforts to make a conversation harder than it needs to be? Anyway, I'll play your guessing game this time around. After a bit of looking, I'm guessing it stands for Advanced Syndicalist Mechanics. I can't say I'm not amused by the fact that determining the acronym of a top 20 alliance is depicted as a significant hurdle, here. An astounding step, I look forward to your op-ed on fully automated luxury gay space communism. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redarmy Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 3 minutes ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said: Honestly if an alliance is not in the top 15-16 alliances, do we really need to know who they are? Thats fair and true for a lot of people, but you're not acting as this massive investigator would couldn't put together three letter together. 5 minutes ago, Kurdanak said: I can't say I'm not amused by the fact that determining the acronym of a top 20 alliance is depicted as a significant hurdle, here. An astounding step, I look forward to your op-ed on fully automated luxury gay space communism. Yessssssss 1 Quote "Though it starts with a fist it must end with your mind." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenyx Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 33 minutes ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said: Honestly if an alliance is not in the top 15-16 alliances, do we really need to know who they are? I'm fine with knowing who they are, but I am a bit new here, would be nice to be given a little slack now and then -.- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenyx Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Redarmy said: Thats fair and true for a lot of people, but you're not acting as this massive investigator would couldn't put together three letter together. I never said I was a "massive investigator". I've done my best to try to figure out the truth behind the causes of this war, for my own personal reasons. Essentially, I got into this war by default, my original Alliance being on one of the sides, and I have a strong code of ethics which necessitates me investigating whether I'm fighting on the right side of a given conflict. Edited December 17, 2020 by Phoenyx 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angantyr Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 2 hours ago, Phoenyx said: I never said I was a "massive investigator". I've done my best to try to figure out the truth behind the causes of this war, for my own personal reasons. Essentially, I got into this war by default, my original Alliance being on one of the sides, and I have a strong code of ethics which necessitates me investigating whether I'm fighting on the right side of a given conflict. Either you are a clueless noob with a density higher than oil, or a reroll tasked with the job of muddying the waters and jamming up public communications between alliance leaders to the point that they are virtually impossible to follow. I'm still undecided, personally. Either way the noise is equally white. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Sir Scarfalot Posted December 17, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted December 17, 2020 2 hours ago, Phoenyx said: I'm fine with knowing who they are, but I am a bit new here, would be nice to be given a little slack now and then -.- AHAHAHAHAHAHA If you want slack... STOP ACTING LIKE A SMARTASS got it? 4 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeroofTime55 Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 14 hours ago, Shiho Nishizumi said: There's nothing noble in wanting to incur disproportionate infra turnover on the foe relative to oneself. This is the most valid point in this thread, and I am in fact disappointed that we did not have a few more weeks of war. 1 Quote Worst Poster Ever (2011) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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