Bhuto Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Best of luck ROSE have a nice rebuild ahead (already started though ) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foltest Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 (edited) I'm not sure what this is based off of and it's clearly not marginally worse than white peace. It would be the second-highest amount demanded in the war and higher than what was demanded proportionally of other alliances. Except that's not really what Frawley said. The reason we didn't seek peace is because knew if we sought peace shortly after the opposition had landed what could be perceived as a knockout blow, we would be in a weaker position and have to deal with heavy demands. While we didn't oppose anyone seeking peace, we preferred those who felt they could continue to fight to stay in as it would be better than following the usual pattern where everything is in the hands of the winning side even if the war hasn't gone on very long and the losers basically are at their mercy. As we knew the ramifications of a loss going in, there was little to lose by doing this due to the political situation. If we just wanted to rogue out, I wouldn't have bothered engaging at all when approached. Very rough calculations taking NPO's total population and assuming 100% commerce rate with 0 rebuilding taking place before that, you guys make roughly $95 mil a day raw revenue. So idk divide that by half to account for bills and it'll take you maybe 14-20 days to generate the cash if you don't rebuild any infra. Try not to roast my rough calculations too badly and I'll even admit I could be way off from current numbers since I assume commerce improvements being lost has impacted income. edit: I found out why my numbers were so high. Edited October 5, 2016 by Raymond Reddington Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
durmij Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Best of luck ROSE have a nice rebuild ahead (already started though ) Miss you buddy. You fought well! Good luck in RW. 1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjI4ROuPyuY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUUEHv8GHcE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auctor Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 The reps represent roughly a week worth of economic output, it's only marginally different than pure white peace. So effectively what you're saying is, you're not interested in peace. Since this is a war you started, what NPO is effectively doing is going rogue on their way out. Which is fine. I'm not sad to be a part of it, and I'm not protesting it. Just calling a spade a spade. You aren't the victim. What does it matter if your diplomatic position is entirely hopeless as you keep asserting? I don't really understand why you'd see it as an expression of hopelessness to keep fighting. A criticism that perhaps we hope too much would make some sense. And no, we aren't victims. Coughing up the money would be an expression of victimhood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogaden Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 (edited) Hasn't a precedent already been set by tS when they paid Arrgh 100mil to peace out with SK/Mensa/Guardian?Wow ancient history brah Edited October 5, 2016 by Ogaden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foltest Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 We now learn that Arrgh are the real villains of this story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Frawley Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 The reps represent roughly a week worth of economic output Your numbers are wrong and your post follows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiki Mod Dr Rush Posted October 5, 2016 Wiki Mod Share Posted October 5, 2016 What in the world was that forum about? sa Thanks for the nuance here. Yeah, I mean brought it up when someone said that if a leader happens to have a losing war, they should step down that it didn't happen with you guys despite the scenarios being somewhat similar. I don't even think anyone on the victorious side said Tenages should step down. Maybe some people did, but I don't remember the OWF being quite at the stage where that would be a normal thing. No one really perceives it as a mistake given the available options. We pursued the best outcome we could get even if it was risky. At the start of the war, I wasn't really unclear that it may not be a win, but we wanted to avoid the same thing that happened in the last war. You have exactly figured it out with this paragraph since virtually no one wants to pay. People have said our viewpoint has been disingenuous or delusional even, but ultimately it is the one we hold. I know you disagree, but as we continue to see more and more consolidation, it's hard to see anything else happening and others have noticed this. Mechanically, it's a bit different since SK was a higher tier alliance at the time and considerable damage could be done round after round. We've bottomed out, so the most of the arguing has been over opportunity cost, rather than damage. As for the post you're addressing, I don't think he's really addressing this forum seriously. However, it would be more pertinent to the general state of relations between us and the other side rather than directly motivating the reps demand. To get to the current point where we are at, one has to take into account the last war and the perceived motivations behind targeting NPO specifically(including efforts to avoid involvement of traditional Paracovenant alliances) along with the timing. We likely wouldn't have felt it necessary to attack first if we didn't feel the opposition had indicated to us they saw it as their right to attack us whenever they felt ready. I don't believe they wanted to demand reps on the offensive. Also, just because a group doesn't have an overt connection, doesn't mean people can't hold feelings stemming from that, but again I'm not saying it's motivating the reps demand. The reps demand is reflective of the fact that they took damage, but ended up winning, didn't like NPO before, and feel aggrieved by NPO even though they hit NPO before. Other alliances have been mentioned in that regard including the one you brought up along with NPO's own reps record(people even hinted NPO would have demanded a lot of reps if we won the last war) and my personal reps record, so it's not totally surprising to see someone bring up "saltiness" over (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways). There is a large difference though. SK was standing on a long stated principle. Your spewing BS in an attempt to wiggle out of reps. If you actually cared about your position next war you would have peaced out. As it is you'll still be ZIed when the next war starts & have nothing to contribute. Kinda like Alpha. fwiw, there were suggestions for Tenages to step down due to the whole shenanigans of The Great VE War planning, but neither side really cared to push it hard. The only major situation that occurred from an alliance to push a leader to step down was VE on Syndicate, which later trickled down to what you see here. Syndicate leaving and helping develop the strongest most coordinated sphere so far in this game. Oh, and there was that time with Clarke and DEIC, or was that his sister? I can't remember, but we got bird brain and he's cool. I'd say that despite DEIC still being on the opposing sphere, having TheNG be the face/lead of the alliance definitely made them better to establish relations with. Grillick was forced to step down in ST. Patrick's Day Massacre as part of the terms. As someone who has fought for over two months against tS (hi), it's actually not that bad compared to what people make it out to be. New mechanics make this a much worse idea though. By the time NPO peaces out they will have almost no improvements. Oh btw NPO you realize that your commerce buildings are actually costing you money right? 23:38 Skable that's why we don't want Rose involved, so we can take the m all for ourselves 23:39 [] but Mensa is the cute girl at the school dance and she's only dancing with us right now to get our friend jealous 23:39 [] If Rose comes in and gives Mensa what she wants, she'll just toss us aside and forget we ever existed 23:39 zombie_lanae yeah I do hope we can keep having them all to ourselves 23:40 zombie_lanae I know it's selfish but I want all their love 6:55 PM <+Isolatar> Praise Dio Pubstomper|BNC [20:01:55] Rose wouldn't plan a hit on Mensa because it would be !@#$ing stupid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Kemal Ergenekon Posted October 5, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted October 5, 2016 Summary of this thread in a single pic: 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buorhann Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Haha, Kemal is slaying the boards lately. 1 1 Warrior of Dio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfPCFQfOnLg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Frawley Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 There is a large difference though. SK was standing on a long stated principle. Your spewing BS in an attempt to wiggle out of reps. If you actually cared about your position next war you would have peaced out. As it is you'll still be ZIed when the next war starts & have nothing to contribute. Kinda like Alpha. 1. If this were true, we would be at peace 2. I'm not sure why not accepting the first offer from a sphere that has raided us, paid to have us raided, rolled us for no reason and is already predicting how badly we will perform against them next time is BS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PackAnimal Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 This topic is too short. Shitpost! 1 Mans two modes of existence can be thought of as his light and dark side. He is either the Protector or the Ravager. The Immovable Object or the Unstoppable Force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphus Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 1. If this were true, we would be at peace 2. I'm not sure why not accepting the first offer from a sphere that has raided us, paid to have us raided, rolled us for no reason and is already predicting how badly we will perform against them next time is BS Whoa. Way to be purposefully obtuse. One must imagine Sisyphus happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mad Titan Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 (edited) 1. If this were true, we would be at peace 2. I'm not sure why not accepting the first offer from a sphere that has raided us, paid to have us raided, rolled us for no reason and is already predicting how badly we will perform against them next time is BS You missed the part where you invaded them without a CB and lost to that list of why they want you to pay reps. Edited October 5, 2016 by LeotheGreat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordRahl2 Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Longest P&W thread is about the greatest fighting force in all of Mensa....Manpile. (Note to self: procure group photoshop) Longest thread on our forums? Literally nothing. No post contains more than 2 characters. you and I both know that is not true It is absolutely true. The longest thread on our forums (349 pages) literally contains only the characters "s" and "a". (5th most viewed) The Longest thread on the P/W forums (94 pages) is literally about the best unit in MENSA, Manpile: (4th most viewed) 1 -signature removed for rules violation- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Frawley Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 You missed the part where you invaded them without a CB and lost to that list of why they want you to pay reps. I thought I just gave you three CB's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foltest Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 I thought I just gave you three CB's You gave three clauses of propaganda. There is a difference, despite what NPO wishes to believe. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auctor Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 You gave three clauses of propaganda. There is a difference, despite what NPO wishes to believe. It really isn't debatable that we got raided by your sphere in the past. If you want to bend over backwards lying about the rest, go ahead by all means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yosodog Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 What is this about us raiding you guys? I haven't heard that story yet. [22:37:51] <&Yosodog> Problem is, everyone is too busy deciding which top gun character they are that no decision has been made BK in a nutshell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beowulf the Second Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 UPN has paid reps in the past. We are no longer willing to do so. Not because of a principled stance, but because we simply don't want to given how negotiations went down. I'll start by saying that there's nothing objectively wrong with this. Choose whatever you want, for whatever reason you want. But once you throw pragmatism out the window for "they weren't polite to us so let's not do what we think is actually best for us", you open the door to a bunch of other sht. You end up corrupting your process of rational decision making, and mostly hurt yourselves in the process. That's just my opinion though. 2 01:58:39 <BeowulftheSecond> Belisarius of The Byzantine Empire has sent your nation $0.00, 0.00 food, 0.00 coal, 0.00 oil, 0.00 uranium, 0.00 lead, 0.00 iron, 0.00 bauxite, 0.00 gasoline, 0.00 munitions, 1,000.00 steel, and 0.00 aluminum from the alliance bank of Rose.01:58:46 <BeowulftheSecond> someone please explain 01:59:12 <%Belisarius> sleep deprivatin is a !@#$ @_@01:59:14 — %Belisarius shrugs01:59:18 <BeowulftheSecond> we're at WAR. WE ARE BURNING EACH OTHER'S PIXELS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Frawley Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 (edited) You gave three clauses of propaganda. There is a difference, despite what NPO wishes to believe. Is an aggressive strike by BK on NPO valid cb or not Holton, if it isn't then honestly I do not know what is. Edited October 6, 2016 by Frawley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foltest Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 It really isn't debatable that we got raided by your sphere in the past. If you want to bend over backwards lying about the rest, go ahead by all means. Going with Yoso here, haven't heard this one before. Unless you're talking about Arrgh who is a neutral group. Is an aggressive strike by BK on NPO valid cb or not Holton, if it isn't then honestly I do not know what is. Well at least you guys finally admit you planned this sneak attack finally. Although honestly there was no choice for BK in that situation. Alpha had been at war for ages and you guys were their only allies that wanted to actually defend them. It just made sense imo, although I wasn't part of that decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Placentica Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 (edited) You missed the part where you invaded them without a CB and lost to that list of why they want you to pay reps. No he didn't. 1. If this were true, we would be at peace 2. I'm not sure why not accepting the first offer from a sphere that has raided us, paid to have us raided, rolled us for no reason and is already predicting how badly we will perform against them next time is BS Well at least you guys finally admit you planned this sneak attack finally. Although honestly there was no choice for BK in that situation. Alpha had been at war for ages and you guys were their only allies that wanted to actually defend them. It just made sense imo, although I wasn't part of that decision. False. We just preferred to go it alone b/c I didn't think extended allies were ready and I knew going it alone would prevent your side from doing what it's doing now - leveraging those same allies to get huge levels of reps. Plus we had several months to prepare for an extended nuclear war since tS has tipped their hand far before they actually hit. Edited October 6, 2016 by Placentica Hello! If you don't like this post please go here: https://politicsandwar.com/forums/index.php?app=core&module=usercp&tab=core&area=ignoredusers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foltest Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 No he didn't. False. We just preferred to go it alone b/c I didn't think extended allies were ready and I knew going it alone would prevent your side from doing what it's doing now - leveraging those same allies to get huge levels of reps. Plus we had several months to prepare for an extended nuclear war since tS has tipped their hand far before they actually hit. I'm really not trying to argue the politics of last war. The fact was that NPO was *seen* by our side to be your only ally that wanted to jump in for you, thus they were a threat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Frawley Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 Unless you're talking about Arrgh who is a neutral group. Mensa raided us en masse a month after we founded Arrgh raided us a few months later and told us they were paid for the hit by your sphere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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