UPN Recognition of Hostilities

[Ogaden]

UPN didn't embrace or call out for any mass spying, it was a few personal members and DEIC that joined UPN temporarely. Emmad didn't lie to you.

 

Sorry Mr. Walkback, but Saru already confirmed that you did indeed order mass spying

[Saru]

Sorry Mr. Walkback, but Saru already confirmed that you did indeed order mass spying

 

I take it reading comprehension is not your strength.

 

Nowhere did I say that the government issued ordered for mass spying. I said that several of our members carried out spy attacks after hearing the success that DEIC had with it. There was no issue of an order from the government officials.

 

Continue with your transparent spin attempts though... 

Edited April 6, 2016 by Saru

[Pangui]

Sorry Mr. Walkback, but Saru already confirmed that you did indeed order mass spying

We had some members that did espionage on their own, and they were attacked iirc. UPN has not ordered any member to launch spy attacks prior to you attacking us. 

[Hansarius]

Sorry Mr. Walkback, but Saru already confirmed that you did indeed order mass spying

 

No, he said that several members carried out spy attacks.

There was no order or encouragement from anyone in the council to do so, they should have encouraged it, but they didn't.

[Spaceman Thrax]

 

I pretty much agree with you save the point about their MO.  It still works.  Nothing prevents anyone from running max mil and low infra and "living off the land".  What's broken is people's willingness to put up with it from Arrgh.

 

Well. It could work, in principle. But they were running it to the absolute hilt BEFORE the changes. They didn't have the margins for even a small adjustment, let alone such a large one.

 

I disagree that anyone's willingness to put up with Arrgh changed when the mechanics were adjusted, though. It just became far more practical to do something about it, so the first time they stuck their neck out they got slapped down.

 

(I don't think Arrgh really had a choice, once the mechanics were changed. Probably even if they'd sat patiently and not offended anyone they had already gone too far while the rules were unchanged for no one to find an "in".)

 

Anyways. In my opinion there is a distinction to be drawn here between "Arrgh whining because they are finally getting hit back meaningfully" and "Arrgh being upset about a game change that retroactively made their strategy unfeasible". Does anyone care about that distinction? Hard to say.

[Ogaden]

No, he said that several members carried out spy attacks.

There was no order or encouragement from anyone in the council to do so, they should have encouraged it, but they didn't.

 

You guys have lied to me for weeks, why should I believe you now?

[Saru]

You guys have lied to me for weeks, why should I believe you now?

 

We don't give a shit whether you believe us or not. We presented you with the facts, what your opinion of it all is, is pretty much irrelevant. 

[Clarke]

I don't know if you were lied to but if so then I'd say lying to Arrgh is justified under the circumstances. 

[Hansarius]

You guys have lied to me for weeks, why should I believe you now?

Well, whether or not they've lied to you regarding other matters I don't know, but they haven't lied about this.

And me criticizing our own government for not taking a more proactive stance should lend me some credibility. 

You guys should have gotten rolled weeks ago.

[Ogaden]

Well, whether or not they've lied to you regarding other matters I don't know, but they haven't lied about this.

And me criticizing our own government for not taking a more proactive stance should lend me some credibility. 

You guys should have gotten rolled weeks ago.

 

We've actually been rolled many times, the rules change wasn't about making it possible to roll us, it was Sheepy's way of making sure we never get back up again.

[Abu Haddad]

We've actually been rolled many times, the rules change wasn't about making it possible to roll us, it was Sheepy's way of making sure we never get back up again.

i see ogaden your still buthurt 

[Bambino]

Ooof, wow, reading this makes my brain hurt.  The amount of conspiracy bullcrap flying around here is insane.  While I understand it won't make a lick of difference, as someone who is on the members only, government only, and allied private channels, I can assure you that UPN never ordered any mass spying.  In fact, at some point we discussed requesting people to stop so that we can de-escalate the situation.  And keep in mind this is after multiple repeated micro raids by Arrrgh in an attempt to lure us into an aggressive attack (as stated specifically by Arrrgh government - Not ordered by Arrrgh gov, but not stopped either).

 

If your complaint is that we waited for something we figured would be to our advantage, well, go cry me a river.  Only a fool takes more hits than they need to and we had already begun the process of making military standards so we could more actively counter raids on UPN and our protectorates.  I mean, seriously, UPN wasn't even 50% powered up for war when you guys started with the mass raid that led to this conflict.  I didn't even have 50% of my tanks in place yet and the only reason I had as many planes on me was because I normally keep 60% plane load (precisely because of the Arrrgh threat that was looming over us).

 

While I know Ogaden and Roz's attempts are paper thin and merely an attempt to spin what has become a complete and utter disaster for Arrrgh, it'd be nice if they'd provide at least some sort of evidence to show that UPN gov lied rather than just throw randomness against the wall.  If they can't do that then maybe they should stop with the bald faced attempts to paint UPN as the bad guy when we have repeatedly negotiated in good faith to stop conflict after conflict and were met only with a knife to the back.

 

And Hans and Saru are right, it should have been done earlier, but what's done is done at this point.  All I can say is that the sole person I've been able to fight in Arrrgh has been gracious and pleasant in our messages.  I can only hope that is the way the majority of Arrrgh is rather than the vileness that's being shown here.

[Rozalia]

I don't know if you were lied to but if so then I'd say lying to Arrgh is justified under the circumstances. 

 

"He who makes peace between the people by inventing good information or saying good things, is not a liar."

[Ogaden]

Ooof, wow, reading this makes my brain hurt.  The amount of conspiracy bullcrap flying around here is insane.  While I understand it won't make a lick of difference, as someone who is on the members only, government only, and allied private channels, I can assure you that UPN never ordered any mass spying.  In fact, at some point we discussed requesting people to stop so that we can de-escalate the situation.  And keep in mind this is after multiple repeated micro raids by Arrrgh in an attempt to lure us into an aggressive attack (as stated specifically by Arrrgh government - Not ordered by Arrrgh gov, but not stopped either).

 

If your complaint is that we waited for something we figured would be to our advantage, well, go cry me a river.  Only a fool takes more hits than they need to and we had already begun the process of making military standards so we could more actively counter raids on UPN and our protectorates.  I mean, seriously, UPN wasn't even 50% powered up for war when you guys started with the mass raid that led to this conflict.  I didn't even have 50% of my tanks in place yet and the only reason I had as many planes on me was because I normally keep 60% plane load (precisely because of the Arrrgh threat that was looming over us).

 

While I know Ogaden and Roz's attempts are paper thin and merely an attempt to spin what has become a complete and utter disaster for Arrrgh, it'd be nice if they'd provide at least some sort of evidence to show that UPN gov lied rather than just throw randomness against the wall.  If they can't do that then maybe they should stop with the bald faced attempts to paint UPN as the bad guy when we have repeatedly negotiated in good faith to stop conflict after conflict and were met only with a knife to the back.

 

And Hans and Saru are right, it should have been done earlier, but what's done is done at this point.  All I can say is that the sole person I've been able to fight in Arrrgh has been gracious and pleasant in our messages.  I can only hope that is the way the majority of Arrrgh is rather than the vileness that's being shown here.

 

Another fun revelation, Emmad also claimed he didn't know who was spy attacking us, yet here you are, you DID know

[Saru]

Another fun revelation, Emmad also claimed he didn't know who was spy attacking us, yet here you are, you DID know

 

No idea what Emmad has or has not said to you. But with your track record of lack of comprehension in this thread -- I would not be surprised if you are talking out of your ass as far as that is concerned too.

 

I don't see how you are constantly finding revelations when we are essentially just repeating ourselves. 

 

DEIC members spied on you. Yes, we knew that -- like we have said in this thread repeatedly. Did you expect us to come to you and tell you that our ally is spying on you? Several of our members decided to join DEIC in spying after they had success with it -- this wasn't ordered by the government, and carried out by the members who were growing frustrated at you raiding our allies and protectorate. I struggle to see what you have an issue with... 

Edited April 6, 2016 by Saru

[Bambino]

Another fun revelation, Emmad also claimed he didn't know who was spy attacking us, yet here you are, you DID know

Confirmed, Bambino is Emmad.

 

In all seriousness, I don't know exactly what Emmad did or did not know.  He's had some real life stuff recently and hasn't always been on, so he may not have been around for those discussions.  I don't remember nor do I care to go back through 10,000+ lines of chat.  They weren't exactly long or numerous.  If Emmad said he didn't know, he didn't know.  I've not known him to lie.  Though I'm sure you'll find a way to spin that too.

Edited April 6, 2016 by Bambino

[Kyte]

No idea what Emmad has or has not said to you. But with your track record of lack of comprehension in this thread -- I would not be surprised if you are talking out of your ass as far as that is concerned too.

 

I don't see how you are constantly finding revelations when we are essentially just repeating ourselves. 

 

DEIC members spied on you. Yes, we knew that -- like we have said in this thread repeatedly. Did you expect us to come to you and tell you that our ally is spying on you? Several of our members decided to join DEIC in spying after they had success with it -- this wasn't ordered by the government, and carried out by the members who were growing frustrated at you raiding our allies and protectorate. I struggle to see what you have an issue with... 

 

To help out any Arrgh pirates with comprehension issues...

 

[Kurdanak]

I'm still curious on who has attacked Arrrgh aggressively.  

Sheepy.

 

(☞ﾟヮﾟ)☞

Edited April 6, 2016 by Kurdanak

[Bambino]

Sheepy.

 

(☞ﾟヮﾟ)☞

OOOOOOOOHHHHHHH.  I get it, that's why UPN got attacked!  Thanks Kurd!  We are Sheepy's henchmen after all.

[Beatrix]

Ogaden, let me explain it to you one last time, and see if you're able to comprehend what I'm saying. 

 

 

A few DEIC members have temporarely joined UPN & independently spied on Arrgh. I, for one, know this because I was lurking in some threads that derailed from their main objective towards one-two members posting that they've spied against Arrgh. 

 

There wasn't some big discussion going on, so I'm not even sure government, or most of UPN even knew that this was a thing. With that in mind, nothing that Emmad has or hasn't said to you would be a lie, and none of this justifies your aggression towards UPN and its allies for awhile now. Perhaps you ought to listen instead of yelling out cries of lies and deceit. 

[Apeman]

Moral high ground being claimed by UPN? I laughed. I still am.......!@#$ dropped my banana. I blame arrgh. EUGENE get me another pink banana. 10, this thread could go on for awhile.

[durmij]

[Andrezj Kolarov]

I think I put on a few pounds just looking at that.

[Hereno]

the problem isn't that everybody can smack around arrgh now even though most major alliances imitated the "tactic" they were complaining about

 

the problem is that pretty much overnight without warning some people's scores literally doubled after a week of testing over a year after launch

 

part of the negative effects of making your communication with the player-base so centralized on your favorites in the larger alliances is that you get disconnected from the rest of the player-base

 

it's just inexperience and immaturity. i really can't actually blame people for just waiting until the changes took effect; i can only blame them for lobbying so hard for something that wasn't really needed, and then sheepy for letting it happen and then implementing it terribly

[Prefontaine]

negative effects of making your communication with the player-base so centralized on your favorites in the larger alliances is that you get disconnected from the rest of the player-baseit's just inexperience and immaturity.

I'm probably one of the people sheepy dislikes the most in this game. I made the major suggestion push in the CDA and then made it publicly per request.

Edited April 7, 2016 by Prefontaine