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UPN Recognition of Hostilities


Emmad
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It was obvious what the complaining for the game mechanics to be changed was for. 

 

How thick are you?

 

Arrgh declared war on us, after the game change. And not the other way around.

 

I don't think UPN members were even that vocal about the game changes. And I have always said that I would like the war mechanics to remain fixed, instead of the constant changes which annoyed me.

Edited by Saru

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How thick are you?

 

Arrgh declared war on us, after the game change. And not the other way around.

 

I don't think UPN members were even that vocal about the game changes. And I have always said that I would like the war mechanics to remain fixed, instead of the constant changes which annoyed me.

 

Calm down now luv. 

 

I am aware, they knew what was coming. 

 

That implies I'm singling out UPN, that would be incorrect. 

Edited by Rozalia
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You seriously asking me to mention the alliances who have attacked Arrgh now after this update? You talk as if those attacks aren't happening, odd.

 

Not only did they go in, but several times.

 

No, and as I knew it would people are wasting time with pretending they're some brave souls or something. I prefer honesty myself. 

 

I'm still curious on who has attacked Arrrgh aggressively.   :lol:

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I suppose it's time to break radio silence for a moment.

 

Stayed out of this mostly thus far beyond my comment that I believed the changes were incorrect. 

 

Anyway, Cobalt and NAC both went in on Arrgh some time ago. They lost, and lost big. However they at least played the game and you can respect them on that. The current coalition could have aided those two groups but for the most part didn't, waiting instead as they knew a magic rule change was inevitably coming to stack things in their favour. In the blame game ultimately the reason for Arrgh's bad position currently isn't itself, but the group who whined and moaned until Sheepy gave them what they want. However it is what it is, happened before and will likely happen again. 

 

The only time that NAC went in on a first strike prior to very recently was a brief engagement during a coalition war when members of NAC attacked Arrgh in conjunction with a VE war declaration against Arrgh.  That was a very long time ago when NAC was still a VE protectorate.  VE asked NAC to back off, so we did.  Very other engagement was the result of an Arrgh nation(s) attacking a member(s) of NAC.  Perhaps Arrgh would like to spin it another way (or perhaps you would), but reality is reality.  NAC has lost a lot of infra, and even a couple of members along the way, but we're still here.

 

NAC is currently engaged in hostilities with Arrgh per its treaty with UPN, more than one clause of which applies.

 

I believe that someone from Arrgh said it best when they said that, "you should adapt your style to fit the conditions of the game", or words to that effect.  The rule change doesn't prohibit anyone particularly from making a "living" as a raider.  Please, off that topic.

 

No one has bigger tears than me, trust me folks. If I don't shed tears then there wasn't many tears shed. Where are all the tears from? Well not from the main victims of the attacks anyway, it was primarily from people who were intelligent enough to see a problem.

I will admit though I made a few loose comments here and there but I didn't commit myself to talking about it.

What big alliances? Give names. Everyone fighting Arrgh as far as I can see are alliances Arrgh has attacked for the last month or more. 

 

Cobalt went on Arrgh during a war I recall, not exactly the best timing when half the world is burning. Not sure NAC went in on Arrgh but I could be wrong. 

There may have being talk but it didn't happen. 

Anyway you're utterly and completely wrong.

 

The last major round (and there were actually three parts if you include the PP portion) with Arrgh occurred when Arrgh attacked NAC as its wars during the 168 Day War were winding down against SK and TKP.  In fact we were more or less fighting on the same side of the coalition war prior to Arrgh peacing out and then attacking NAC.  

 

It was obvious what the complaining for the game mechanics to be changed was for. 

 

You seem to have this huge conspiracy theory going on where Sheepy conspired with players to "get Arrgh", or the moment the mechanics changed we suddenly hastily assembled to plan our revenge, and it's just bullshit.  Any talk of getting Arrgh under control would have been going on irrespective of game mechanics.  Indeed I was pretty much resigned to taking the long view and making NAC more like Sparta, nuked up and a particularly nasty target you never profited in raiding.  Again, give it a rest. 

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I read both of your posts since I made mine and you still didn't answer. 

 

? I was quoted Bambino not yourself. Though it seems we posted at the same time there.

 

Yeah, mention them. Attacks from who? 

 

I'm pretty sure I was accurate in what I said, depends what you mean by "go in".

 

Well that's talking about another point that I may agree with you on which obviously points to it straying from the actual point. 

 

Refer to my post to Saru. 

 

Cobalt went in and tried to gather support, failed, and ultimately disbanded. NAC tried to gather support several times from what I saw and while I'm sure they'll be very nice about it, ultimately they were not supported as they should have been by their supposed allies. 

 

"The rules changed so we were going to clobber them, they struck first on us so we're going to use that as a way out of whatever we may be seen as". As I said, there are no brave souls involved in the matter. Doing it all now is smart, yes, but to pretend it's anything beyond that is dishonest. And as you know I dislike dishonest people. Nasty guys. Sad! Me I like great people, fantastic people, beautiful people, the best people. Lyin' UPN talks big about being against it all, but when time came to vote, when Arrghgrants were overrunning Cobalt and NAC, he was a no show. LYIN' UPN HOLDS THE TREATY WEB UP HIGH! HE PUTS IT DOWN! AND HE LIES!

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You seem to have this huge conspiracy theory going on where Sheepy conspired with players to "get Arrgh", or the moment the mechanics changed we suddenly hastily assembled to plan our revenge, and it's just bullshit.  Any talk of getting Arrgh under control would have been going on irrespective of game mechanics.  Indeed I was pretty much resigned to taking the long view and making NAC more like Sparta, nuked up and a particularly nasty target you never profited in raiding.  Again, give it a rest. 

 

To begin with by virtue of such talks happening in a non public area (to not count what has been said on IRC in private) it's a conspiracy. Additionally you're correct, Sheepy was going after Princess Bubblegum not Arrgh.

Edited by Rozalia
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Refer to my post to Saru. 

 

Cobalt went in and tried to gather support, failed, and ultimately disbanded. NAC tried to gather support several times from what I saw and while I'm sure they'll be very nice about it, ultimately they were not supported as they should have been by their supposed allies. 

 

"The rules changed so we were going to clobber them, they struck first on us so we're going to use that as a way out of whatever we may be seen as". As I said, there are no brave souls involved in the matter. Doing it all now is smart, yes, but to pretend it's anything beyond that is dishonest. And as you know I dislike dishonest people. Nasty guys. Sad! Me I like great people, fantastic people, beautiful people, the best people. Lyin' UPN talks big about being against it all, but when time came to vote, when Arrghgrants were overrunning Cobalt and NAC, he was a no show.

 

 

 

No brave souls? Everyone fighting Arrgh was attacked by Arrgh. That's not brave, its just defensive of their property.

It's not easy to tick me off. I don't get angry often, but if you mess with my alliance, if you mess with my friends, that will do it every time. 

Rozalia, you're a sniveling coward and leave them the hell alone.

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No brave souls? Everyone fighting Arrgh was attacked by Arrgh. That's not brave, its just defensive of their property.

It's not easy to tick me off. I don't get angry often, but if you mess with my alliance, if you mess with my friends, that will do it every time. 

Rozalia, you're a sniveling coward and leave them the hell alone.

 

They could have fought back with gusto much further back. Contrary to popular belief I do have restraint though and feel people are moving things in a direction beyond my simple point in my first post, so I'll not go into that hole. I said what I did, it's not rocket science and if people disagree then thats fine.

 

All I'll say is be careful, Lyin' UPN, or I will spill the beans on your protectorate!

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They could have fought back with gusto much further back. Contrary to popular belief I do have restraint though and feel people are moving things in a direction beyond my simple point in my first post, so I'll not go into that hole. I said what I did, it's not rocket science and if people disagree then thats fine.

 

All I'll say is be careful, Lyin' UPN, or I will spill the beans on your protectorate!

 

There is multiple factors that I don't agree with why Arrgh wasn't fought, no one is fighting Arrgh now that Arrgh didn't initiate themselves in some way. 

Your point regarding Arrgh being aggressively attacked or whatever is wrong, Arrgh initiated all the current conflicts they're in right now. You can sit there and say well Arrgh was going to get attacked anyway well yeah they attacked a lot of people. 

 

Were people waiting for the score change? Yes. Was that the only reason? No. Was Arrgh taken advantage of after the score change? No

 

I have no idea what you're talking about, there is no beans to spill on anyone connected to our friends. 

Edited by Clarke

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You have misrepresented my take on it all, and I don't know whether it is with malicious intent or honest mistake. In all honesty, I don't know whether or not we would of attacked Arrgh if they changed their ways post the game changes, given the nature of our current government officials I imagine they would of let it go. Just for the record I, and many other UPN members, were for engaging them en-masse whilst they were mass raiding/attacking Polaris & NAC. That did not happen, and the current government have their own reasons for it. Personally speaking I know that I supported NAC financially, and extended the offer to Polaris as well. But that's a side issue.

 

The very simple point is that they forced our hand by outright declaring on us, and are now crying about it that it has not gone to plan (something I am glad about, as I am finally happy to be engaged with the alliance that has been a thorn in our side and that of our allies.) They declared on us, knowing the changes in the game mechanics, and are now !@#$ing. That's ridiculous and those crying look like a laughing stock.

Edited by Saru
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You can't really put the cat back in the bag once you've established yourself as a raiding alliance.

 

Arrgh had a tooth-kicking coming, but they also have a legitimate gripe about having their entire MO shifted out from under them.

 

My opinion, anyways. Have fun in your war, everyone. :)

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Slaughter the shits of the world. They poison the air you breathe.

 

~ William S. Burroughs

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There is multiple factors that I don't agree with why Arrgh wasn't fought, no one is fighting Arrgh now that Arrgh didn't initiate themselves in some way. 

Your point regarding Arrgh being aggressively attacked or whatever is wrong, Arrgh initiated all the current conflicts they're in right now. You can sit there and say well Arrgh was going to get attacked anyway well yeah they attacked a lot of people. 

 

Were people waiting for the score change? Yes. Was that the only reason? No. Was Arrgh taken advantage of after the score change? No

 

I have no idea what you're talking about, there is no beans to spill on anyone connected to our friends.

 

I'd say we can leave it at that, we both understand each other on the matter though we disagree.

 

We all know who has employed UPN's protectorate. If people knew about all she's done their head's would spin.

 

You have misrepresented my take on it all, and I don't know whether it is with malicious intent or honest mistake. In all honesty, I don't know whether or not we would of attacked Arrgh if they changed their ways post the game changes, given the nature of our current government officials I imagine they would of let it go. Just for the record I, and many other UPN members, were for engaging them en-masse whilst they were mass raiding/attacking Polaris & NAC. That did not happen, and the current government have their own reasons for it. Personally speaking I know that I supported NAC financially, and extended the offer to Polaris as well. But that's a side issue.

 

The very simple point is that they forced our hand by outright declaring on us, and are now crying about it that it has not gone to plan (something I am glad about, as I am finally happy to be engaged with the alliance that has been a thorn in our side and that of our allies.) They declared on us, knowing the changes in the game mechanics, and are now [email protected]#$. That's ridiculous and those crying look like a laughing stock.

 

I have no malicious intent. I can only say how I see it. If I am mistaken then I am mistaken, however there is no agenda here. 

Edited by Rozalia
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I'd say we can leave it at that, we both understand each other on the matter though we disagree.

 

We all know who has employed UPN's protectorate. If people knew about all she's done their head's would spin.

 

 

I have no malicious intent. I can only say how I see it. If I am mistaken then I am mistaken, however there is no agenda here. 

 

Woooo conspiracy theorist with no backup! :ph34r:

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We all know who has employed UPN's protectorate. If people knew about all she's done their head's would spin.

 

We 'all'  know, apart from all in this thread who has said they don't know what the hell you are talking about.

 

You are insinuating that someone has employed Magister Mortalis or Polaris (our only protectorates)? What the hell do they have to do with this?  :lol:

Edited by Saru

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Personally speaking I wasn't even a massive fan of the changes, and have spoken out against the war system changing all the time. The way I see it is that you will always be able to workout an optimal strategy for a particular purpose. And from what I know several of other UPN'ers feel the same way. So I don't see why Arrgh are trying to push some sort of rhetoric that as an alliance we campaigned heavily for these changes, and now were opportunistic in taking advantage of it. No doubt that we benefited from it, and it made the war a lot easier than it would of been, but it was Arrgh that forced our hand by outright mass declaring on our nations (in response to the spy attacks we were doing because of all the goddamn raids.) Updates or not, if you attacked us you would of been beat, it's just that with the updates it has come at a lower cost for us and the vast majority of our allies could sit on the sidelines.

 

You have been a thorn in our and our allies' side for awhile. And you declared on us -- after the game changes were made. What the hell are you crying about?

 

Anyway too much [email protected]#$. Just enjoy the war.

So you do admit to spy attacks, Emmad wasn't willing to concede that point :v

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Woooo conspiracy theorist with no backup! :ph34r:

 

We 'all'  know, apart from all in this thread who has said they don't know what the hell you are talking about.

 

You are insinuating that someone has employed Magister Mortalis or Polaris (our only protectorates)? What the hell do they have to do with this?  :lol:

 

 

tumblr_o08q6xdyeQ1v33hszo1_1280.png

 

Ask Clarke what all that is about as you're not getting it clearly.

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Ask Clarke what all that is about as you're not getting it clearly.

 

Clarke's response to your BS is in this thread.

 

I have no idea what you're talking about

 

 

Considering you are talking about someone employing UPN's protectorates, you would think we would know about it.  :lol:

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So you do admit to spy attacks, Emmad wasn't willing to concede that point :v

 

It was primarily DEIC members, but after they said they had success, several of our members also carried out spy attacks in response to the mass raiding. I don't see why he would deny it. That said I wouldn't be surprised if we weren't the only ones to spy on you, given that you mass raided several others.

 

The fact remains that Arrgh took it upon themselves to escalate it and declared war. So yes, we benefited from the war, but you made the move, knowing the updated parameters in place. I don't see how you can paint UPN as being opportunistic in that sense. 

Edited by Saru

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It was primarily DEIC members, but after they said they had success, several of our members also carried out spy attacks in response to the mass raiding. I don't see why he would deny it. That said I wouldn't be surprised if we weren't the only ones to spy on you, given that you mass raided several others.

 

The fact remains that Arrgh took it upon themselves to escalate it and declared war. So yes, we benefited from the war, but you made the move, knowing the updated parameters in place. I don't see how you can paint UPN as being opportunistic in that sense. 

 

Emmad lied to my face about this, I'm glad my instincts were correct about you guys.

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Stayed out of this mostly thus far beyond my comment that I believed the changes were incorrect. 

 

Anyway, Cobalt and NAC both went in on Arrgh some time ago. They lost, and lost big. However they at least played the game and you can respect them on that. The current coalition could have aided those two groups but for the most part didn't, waiting instead as they knew a magic rule change was inevitably coming to stack things in their favour. In the blame game ultimately the reason for Arrgh's bad position currently isn't itself, but the group who whined and moaned until Sheepy gave them what they want. However it is what it is, happened before and will likely happen again. 

UPN had been wanting to join the war against Arrgh for a long time. During the Cobalt/NAC campaign against the Arrgh, many UPN members had been advocating for war against the Arrgh. The only reason that they couldn't was because the pixel huggers' influence in the council was too strong.  There were pixel huggers in the alliance who tried to blame everything on NAC and the NAC supporters who tried to urge the alliance to go to war. Ultimately it wasn't because Sheepy decided to favor UPN, it was because UPN finally woke up to the fact that the "diplomacy" that the pixel huggers had been advocating for won't work. 

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Clarke's response to your BS is in this thread.

 

 

Considering you are talking about someone employing UPN's protectorates, you would think we would know about it.  :lol:

 

... Talk to Clarke and he hopefully can let you in on things. That or visit my thread at: https://politicsandwar.com/forums/index.php?/topic/7961-donald-trump-super-thread/page-12

 

UPN had been wanting to join the war against Arrgh for a long time. During the Cobalt/NAC campaign against the Arrgh, many UPN members had been advocating for war against the Arrgh. The only reason that they couldn't was because the pixel huggers' influence in the council was too strong.  There were pixel huggers in the alliance who tried to blame everything on NAC and the NAC supporters who tried to urge the alliance to go to war. Ultimately it wasn't because Sheepy decided to favor UPN, it was because UPN finally woke up to the fact that the "diplomacy" that the pixel huggers had been advocating for won't work.

 

That time though. Thanks for the honesty though, nice to hear.

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UPN had been wanting to join the war against Arrgh for a long time. During the Cobalt/NAC campaign against the Arrgh, many UPN members had been advocating for war against the Arrgh. The only reason that they couldn't was because the pixel huggers' influence in the council was too strong.  There were pixel huggers in the alliance who tried to blame everything on NAC and the NAC supporters who tried to urge the alliance to go to war. Ultimately it wasn't because Sheepy decided to favor UPN, it was because UPN finally woke up to the fact that the "diplomacy" that the pixel huggers had been advocating for won't work. 

 

UPN's internal debates are irrelevant to this discussion. Arrgh took the decision out of the governments hands and took it upon themselves to declare war. Something I am glad about, and it's hilarious seeing Arrgh officials backtrack and blame Sheepy, when they knew the updated parameters at the time of their declaration.

 

It did not work out as they expected, and now they are crying about it.

Edited by Saru
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To begin with by virtue of such talks happening in a non public area (to not count what has been said on IRC in private) it's a conspiracy. Additionally you're correct, Sheepy was going after Princess Bubblegum not Arrgh.

 

Sorry no, if you are trying to rationalize Arrgh aggression, whether people were talking or not, whether there was spying or not, after all the shit they've pulled over the past several months, I'm going to need more absorbent undergarments.

 

199470d249a4a8a784a8d135a2483d19.jpg

 

You can't really put the cat back in the bag once you've established yourself as a raiding alliance.

 

Arrgh had a tooth-kicking coming, but they also have a legitimate gripe about having their entire MO shifted out from under them.

 

My opinion, anyways. Have fun in your war, everyone. :)

 

I pretty much agree with you save the point about their MO.  It still works.  Nothing prevents anyone from running max mil and low infra and "living off the land".  What's broken is people's willingness to put up with it from Arrgh.

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