Leaderboard

The date? July 23, 2021. The setting? Discord, obviously, lol. The participants? Rebel, Basebond, Fabian, Decagon, Keegoz, Lefty, Cassia, Kev, Dream, Kung. (Sorry if I forgot anyone) The situation? Most people are pretty laid back. Most people are being directed to me, Decagon. (Deposits, etc, lol.) The light backstory? .... The remnants of Error 404, and Children of The Light came together in one of the more successful merges in recent times. This merge resulted in Cataclysm and soon there after, the formation of the Clock bloc. We made a mutual agreement and spent roughly 1-2 weeks after arguing over potential alliance names, themes, gov structure, you name it! It was the first time that many of us had ever spoken to our counterparts in E404/CoTL, and alas, to some peoples surprise, there was quite a bit of tension. Not too surprising when I look and think back to it all. CATA formed that day, and I can't express how grateful for this ride. It's been a tale of ups and downs across many different environments, whether it be MA, Econ, just having my first interactions in the FA world, etc. CATA is truly something special to me, and I hope that all of our members, from the low tiers who are raiding, to the department heads alike, feel that CATA is something we've all had a large part in building! We've seen many Members, Low Gov, High Gov's and Leaders come and go, and it was due to their participation as well as the ones currently holding the reins, that CATA is proud to announce our first of (hopefully) many Anniversaries! We celebrate our one year anniversary, and are having a casual, laidback, and fun filled day today! Want to join in on some of the fun? Here's some of the events that we're hosting today; we hope to see you all there! (If you aren't in CATA and want to join in on HOI4 or Warzone, just ping/ask someone in our main public channel, or in our community channel! We have many people that join us for these games from many alliances, so don't feel shy!) There are games of HOI4 going on at this very moment by the way, so please ask how to join, feel free to watch, etc! There are maybe 12+ people already there!

As The Honorable Doge Matshaa lay in his bed with his eyes closed, he could smell the glorious city of Florence below him. Then a loud noise of shouting was heard below him, he lay there continuing to have fun when a page came knocking hurriedly. Mat finally got up and went to go see where the commotion was. On the floor of the signoria lay Tom of the Great Almighty Bank. Those !@#$ aren't paying us our money, plus they sent spies upon us. Mat raised his hand and said very well and turned to the presumed heir, Alexio. "Go have a chat with those Spartans". Mat went back to bed eyes closed, music loud, the memes alive, when another page barged in. "They banned the Honorable Alexio from the city of Sparta, he was forcible removed. " Mat took a bite of his mongo mango mongo fruit. A silence passed before Mat opened his eyes, ‘fine, okay bestie, ready the army, we shall steal their bank, kill der weak pixels, and their fugly homes.’ ‘If we get sent to court for war crimes, we will just put the blame on Alexio,’ stated Draks. Alexio let a deep rumbling laugh from the bowls of his belly, ‘Geneva who?’ TLDR: SRF Declares war on The Spartans for stealing sweet… sweet pixel money, spying against almighty, and banning SRF's heir when he was sent to negotiate

My goodness, actual CBs do still exist

Congrats Cataclysm! ☣️

Happy first to our friends in Cataclysm.

Not great with that customer service stuff are ya?

I agree with the OP of this post, but I want to address this specific sentence because it's, in my opinion, a dangerous hyperbole. The CN admin was absent for 7+ years, including silence on mod abuse/cheating scandals that broke the game/multis were widespread, etc. Alex makes mistakes but he's never just said "!@#$ it" and walked away for years. Hopefully this thread and others, and some discord chats being had right now, will see things get the attention they need though. In fact, I can say various discord chats are already in motion right now trying to figure things out.

Please vote if you're okay with NON-NAVY changes being implemented, new projects, QoL, Embargoes, and Trades that are ready to go from Test Server to Live as they finish their testing phase. Now that the opening round(s) chaos of the global are toned down, updates run less of a risk impacting coordinated war efforts now.

The Introduction Sponsored by DNN: https://discord.gg/MDYdBkzFh4 (but I would love if people shared this in other news servers as well!) To most experienced people, this much is already known. But it's hard to come to conclusions with just strong sentiments alone, so why not prove it with numbers? For some context, Castle Camelot is the Camelot offshoot alliance primarily for members without Discord. This is their recruitment message: The Bank Logs The first place my investigation led me was to automatically log every transaction to and from every Castle Camelot member in the past 2 months: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hn-o8PryN7qfWTC0ArqLaMkuJW6CFeinPShH96Pk2ks/edit#gid=0 Between 115 transactions not involving looting other alliances or doing business with external alliances, here's how it breaks down: 6 deposits from government members with a value of ~$543m 31 withdrawals from government members with a value of ~$1.65b (6 of which were directly from Castle Camelot, with a value of ~$1b) 33 deposits from alliance members with a value of ~$664m 45 withdrawals to alliance members with a value of ~$141m (41 grants, 4 loans/withdrawals/misc) Obviously, there are a lot of glaring errors here. Like, why are there only 78 total transactions between 194 members? That number gets even worse when looking at the 41 grants. The Grant System All 41 were welcoming grants, as specified in the recruitment message. If that weren't already bad enough (I'll get to that later), it's already clear that not everyone who joins Castle Camelot even gets a welcoming grant. 166 of the current members joined the alliance in the past 2 months, so there is not even an excuse of members getting a welcoming grant only after a certain time staying in the alliance. Furthermore, it appears that the grants that were given out were only hastily done, mostly on the same day, not relevant to when each individual member actually joined the alliance: (Don't want to screenshot all of them but you get the point) I was curious why there were no other grants ever sent out beyond these ones, so I did a little digging. Here's a sample of what actual current and former members told me when asked if there were any other grants even available for members: So, this much is clear -- Castle Camelot is not remotely interested in growing its members. The Government So, let's look at the opposite side of the coin. How is the government doing on grants? Well this much isn't shocking, but it is disappointing nonetheless. The leader is not only withdrawing poorly-tagged money from the bank, but also depositing it later under his own name and using it to fund his own cities. Without me prompting it, this is what another member had to say: When your own members know it's happening, that's when you know you're really not even trying to hide it! EDIT: Flavee has offered a perspective from Camelot of some of the money sent, and although I can't definitively connect or disconnect links between it and Castle Camelot, I can confirm the screenshots are legitimate and therefore have pasted the full chat logs available in an Imgur album for the sake of transparency and fairness in judgement: https://imgur.com/a/LqtCSZJ The Taxes (and how Castle Camelot Makes Money) And, the final piece of the puzzle. My first mission was discovering what the Castle Camelot tax rate was. Members more or less gave the same corroborating evidence: The next part was figuring out how much Castle Camelot makes in a day. Thanks to Locutus for being useful for this as always, also thanks to Locutus for excluding people who don't contribute to alliance tax revenue (grey nations, VM nations, etc): And the final part I needed was simply the alliance score graph: Now about 2 months ago, Castle Camelot was only about half the score as it is today, so I'll be generous and estimate that the revenue back then was also about half of 195m. Putting that together, from the relatively linear growth rate, we can estimate that Castle Camelot members made about 8.8b in cash and resources in the past 2 months. Combining that information with the 30% tax rate, we can then estimate that Castle Camelot earned about 2.6b in tax revenue. No small number! So, let's put all of the numbers together one more time. In the past two months: ~$543m deposited by gov ~$1.65b withdrawn from gov ~$664m deposited by members (much of which, I assume, will not be returned by Castle Camelot or kept if members quit) ~$141m withdrawn to members, ~123m of which was from welcoming bonuses ~2.6b made in tax revenue I don't have to explain why numbers of this scale don't lie! Why We Should Care I'll keep this part short and sweet. It may be easy to not care about a bunch of noobs who joined an alliance because they didn't want to use Discord, but I think that it's important everyone who joins PnW is served to their best interests and not taken advantage of regardless of where they start out. I'll leave a final quote as food for thought here to what should happen: And all that from a very brief set of interactions I had. I cannot overstate this enough -- a little compassion can go a long way! The Future There are three different ways I see this going for me. First, the Camelot crew declares war on me in retaliation (come at me bro), second, they dodge questions and gaslight the public and their members not to believe my lies, or third, they admit it and give a so what. Whatever it is, I don't see them apologizing or trying to fix their mistakes, because evidently this is a profitable venture for them. So, I would like to give a call to action for all alliances to do a few things: First, poach, poach, poach! Spread awareness to all Castle Camelot members that they're being scammed, and that your alliance will accept the better ones with open arms. Like with the message above, some just need some proper attention in order to get more involved in the game! And to the ones who don't want or cannot make a Discord regardless, there are still plenty of other alliances available (for example, SoL) that will actually help their newer members out. Second, if you still don't care enough to do that, why not launch a crusade to liberate the members? Would be a proper example of a fun CB that ceased to exist in this game far too long ago. A Thanks Thank you to the reader for reading until the very end! Thanks to the DNN staff for providing some info, and to the current and former Castle Camelot members who so patiently fielded my many questions. And, if anyone would like me to investigate any other alliance, no matter how big or small, feel free to shoot me a DM on Discord or in-game!

Happy Birthday! I wish I could make it to the hoi4 game

Congratulations! Here's to another great year for Cataclysm! Wish you luck!

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The problems with CN had as much to do with the people playing it as it did with the game mechanics. But make no mistake, there were exploits that couldn't be fixed, and moderation was afraid to crack down properly on the worst offenders because it would have killed a significant portion the game's revenue stream. As for the admin there, once he had the game in what he considered to be a "finished" state, there was no further interest in further improvements. You'd like to think the game mechanics failures here would see more action to correct them, but as Avakael pointed out, errors that turned up 3 years ago and were known to players are still around. Disappointing really.

While I agree that clarification is needed, your interpretation leaves the rule open to being abused. If @Alex was to rule based on "alliance ties", an alliance leader could very easily be like "Hey, let's make a quick post that we cut our alliance ties and fake a drama episode that declares war on each other." Or people could go the tried and true method of ghosting into a pirate alliance to get their slots filled, so that they can rebuild. There's a few ways to move around your interpretation here. That's why moderators should ignore political ties and look at each case individually. Moderators cannot go through Discord to look at what conversations are being had, afterall.

The lack of fact-based evidence from some of you folks is astounding. Sorry to be the buzzkill here, but in order to investigate like an actual journalist (and not a fake RON 🤮 journalist) I decided to visit every single war force-peaced within Rose and tS (dunno if there are more elsewhere) and see if it was justified or not. Let's break them into a few categories: 1. Clearly Incorrect Mod Decision https://politicsandwar.com/nation/war/timeline/war=1381210 https://politicsandwar.com/nation/war/timeline/war=1381206 https://politicsandwar.com/nation/war/timeline/war=1381200 https://politicsandwar.com/nation/war/timeline/war=1381198 These are the ones that have been brought up the most. Sheepy has undone the strike on them, so it was a moderator mistake. It was not a mod endorsement that missile turreting is illegal as some overreactors claim to be. 2. Wars Against Arrgh and HoF https://politicsandwar.com/nation/war/timeline/war=1382487 https://politicsandwar.com/nation/war/timeline/war=1381758 https://politicsandwar.com/nation/war/timeline/war=1381749 https://politicsandwar.com/nation/war/timeline/war=1381748 https://politicsandwar.com/nation/war/timeline/war=1381361 https://politicsandwar.com/nation/war/timeline/war=1381360 https://politicsandwar.com/nation/war/timeline/war=1381358 https://politicsandwar.com/nation/war/timeline/war=1381163 https://politicsandwar.com/nation/war/timeline/war=1381162 Here are some things all of these wars share: -The wars were against Arrgh and HoF nations, not HW nations -The attacker didn't make any attacks -The wars continued for several days without attacks -- this can be verified by checking the attacker MAP count both at the bottom of the screen and in the war API. I think it is blatantly clear this is against the rules however you shape it. In fact, in some cases it's explicitly against the rules as the attacker did nothing but fortify the entire war: 3. Wars Against HW https://politicsandwar.com/nation/war/timeline/war=1382274 https://politicsandwar.com/nation/war/timeline/war=1382407 https://politicsandwar.com/nation/war/timeline/war=1382272 https://politicsandwar.com/nation/war/timeline/war=1382185 https://politicsandwar.com/nation/war/timeline/war=1382183 https://politicsandwar.com/nation/war/timeline/war=1382452 https://politicsandwar.com/nation/war/timeline/war=1382264 https://politicsandwar.com/nation/war/timeline/war=1382085 Here are some things all of these wars share: -The wars were against HW nations, which then leaves it closer to moderator discretion -The attacker didn't make any attacks -The wars continued for several days without attacks -- this can be verified by checking the attacker MAP count both at the bottom of the screen and in the war API. -Some of these wars also led with attacker fortifies: For those of you that don't believe that these wars lasted several days without attacks, let me give a few examples. First, to resolve the rumor that some wars were peaced immediately without even the ability to nuke or missile, an example: Some people may be wondering why this war appears to be peaced immediately with no MAPs being shown as generated whatsoever. What I've tested and discovered is that whatever script shows when MAPs generate only runs when an attack gets made, and then makes up the difference in MAPs between the last attack and the new attack. So, if no attacks get shown until the war gets force-peaced, no MAP generation will be shown. To prove these wars lasted several days, I asked the mod team directly and provided a few examples: The wars in question: https://politicsandwar.com/nation/war/timeline/war=1382185 https://politicsandwar.com/nation/war/timeline/war=1382183 https://politicsandwar.com/nation/war/timeline/war=1382274 And Sheepy's response: GMT, of course. That means all of those wars went almost a full three days without any offensive attacks. So, there's been a second layer of moderation discretion that's been brought up. What if the attackers ran out of nukes/missiles to hit defenders with? What if they say, planned on naval attacking their opponents but could no longer do that if their opponent built ships first? I think it's perfectly legitimate in some of those cases to have those series of events happen, hence moderation discretion, but let's go through all the nations in that third category and disprove both these theories: Jingoa: https://politicsandwar.com/nation/id=236570 -- declared 5 wars on both HW and Arrgh nations. Fortified at the beginning of every single war and didn't make a single attack in any war. There is not a single doubt he intended to win or make attacks on any of those wars, period. Tappin: https://politicsandwar.com/nation/id=233068 -- declared 5 wars, of which one war was force-peaced. In that war, his opponent had 0 ships which eliminates that theory. He suicided ground in 3 other wars, one of which he also launched a successful naval attack. In the final war, he launched 3 missiles over the span of 4 days. So, the question becomes, if he knew he could suicide ground or do navals against the force-peaced war, why didn't he? If his plan was to focus missile attacks on the final war, then he couldn't have used those missiles against the force-peaced war. So, why did he declare the war? The Danish Realm: https://politicsandwar.com/nation/id=119191 -- declared 3 wars, of which two were force-peaced. In the third war, he also didn't make a single attack the entire war. Seems pretty clear as well. USNAR: https://politicsandwar.com/nation/id=103480 -- declared 4 wars, of which one was force-peaced. The force-peaced defender started almost maxed on ships which eliminates any potential need to hit ships before they built or something. Ground suicided in one war, launched 8 missiles over the span of 4 days in the other two. So, this goes in the same category as Tappin. If he had the potential to ground suicide and didn't, and had no intention to focus missiles on the war, why did he declare it? Santa Cruz: https://politicsandwar.com/nation/id=66816 -- declared 5 wars, of which one was force-peaced. The force-peaced defender had 0 ships and experienced no naval attacks. Ground suicided in one war, launched 6 missiles over the span of 4 days in the other three. So, falls in the same category as Tappin and USNAR. Of note, both Tappin and Santa Cruz had force-peaced wars against the same person, Clown, whose beige history before they declared looks a bit like this: Love ya Clown, I'm not a hypocrite and admit my beige history is pretty much the same for reasons I don't need to get into here, but seems a bit suspicious you'd pick this target if not to stack beige, doubly so given he has a 1000 infra average, hmm? Manitoba South: https://politicsandwar.com/nation/id=166562 -- declared 5 wars, of which 1 was force-peaced. The force-peaced defender had max ships. Ground suicided in two war, launched 8 missiles over the span of 4 days in the other two. So, falls in the same category as Tappin, USNAR, and Santa Cruz. To be fair, I think the people in that category have every right to appeal their strikes, and I can't say with 100% certainty they entered those wars planning to do nothing the entire war, although there is evidence to disprove if that was the case. Regardless, even ignoring those wars, there are still tons of examples showing tS especially planned on declaring wars with no attacks whatsoever and solely the intention to get beiged. If you still don't believe me, you may bring up that in those cases, the wars should only be checked once they have ran to their conclusion. So here are some additional categories that may be of interest: 4. Beiged Wars against Arrgh and HoF: https://politicsandwar.com/nation/war/timeline/war=1382175 https://politicsandwar.com/nation/war/timeline/war=1382270 https://politicsandwar.com/nation/war/timeline/war=1382244 https://politicsandwar.com/nation/war/timeline/war=1382240 https://politicsandwar.com/nation/war/timeline/war=1382233 5. Beiged Wars against HW: https://politicsandwar.com/nation/war/timeline/war=1382184 https://politicsandwar.com/nation/war/timeline/war=1382271 https://politicsandwar.com/nation/war/timeline/war=1382275 https://politicsandwar.com/nation/war/timeline/war=1382869 Here are some things all of these wars share: -The attacker didn't make any attacks -The wars continued until the attackers were beiged -Some of these wars also had attacker fortifies: Interested to hear what the defense for any of these were. So, what have we learned today? 1. It's TRIVIALLY easy to avoid getting force-peaced, and I'm sure the WIDE MAJORITY of Ro$e members have enough braincells to realize this, even when purposely trying to bypass the slotfill rules. 2. Ro$e have had a SIGNIFICANT number of wars in which there where no doubts whatsoever that they broke game rules. Any attempt at distracting from this is PROPAGANDA, pure and simple. 3. I await my downvotes from every tS nation ever.

I'm not sure why people think the accidental bonus MAP thing is rare. I've somehow accidentally had an extra attack or an extra MAP at least once a week in every global war I've fought since that 10 month anus horribilis. I thought that bug was deemed a lost cause a long time ago, so I gave up pointing it out to anyone.

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You basically just admitted you don't know much about this game lol. 30/30 isn't that abnormal and most alliances probably do grant stuff with those taxes. No way they're going to give you a city every 10 days, they'd literally be losing money.

If you try to kill enemy units to reduce his military and help your ally then you're trying to win, maybe not for you but for your alliance/coalition Declare on a nation outside your current alliance war when you're ZM in a beige cycle and you do an airstrike 10 planes vs 2k = slot filling Declare on a nation in your current alliance war and you do an airstrike 1k planes vs 2k to reduce those 2k and facilitate the airstrike of your ally = good coordination Declare on a nation outside your current alliance war when you're ZM in a beige cycle and you do soldiers only ground attacks vs 0 soldiers to stole money you need for something like a nuke to drop on the enemy = totally fine

I wonder what's going on with his new game which from what I've seen few years ago was going to be basically Pnw 2. I honestly would see some major changes to the game mechanics as current one is becoming too repetitive.

Alex is PAINFULLY out of touch with the community

Can confirm. If people building ships to the point where I can’t get an IT after declaring on them with little to no navy I wouldn’t attack either. I have employed this strat in many losing wars and it’s honestly baffling that it could be considered slot filling. This has huge implications on how moderation will be handled in future wars as well and this does not sit right with me.

@Alex I want to point out that this happened because of you. You have allowed this to happen for multiple years, YEARS. You have allowed this to happen for so long that it has become a literal military strategy known to every block in the game, and then suddenly You change how you enforce it. If you want to change how you enforce the rule, that's fine, it's your game, but have the decency to make a post and/or an announcement in game saying that you are aware of how things used to be, but you are changing it, and state the reason you are changing it. Let people know that the enforcement is changing, as opposed to changing without telling anyone, and punishing people for not being aware of how you are switching enforcement. You're giving people strikes for something that was allowed for years, as far as I understand.

To clarify, what if I have 5 nukes so I declare 5 wars. Then before I get enough MAPs to launch them, 3 get spied away. Am I at fault for the two wars that I didn't launch those nukes? I didn't intentionally slotfill but circumstances forced it to be that way. From the community reaction, its clear that this has never been called out during a global before and until now, was considered a valid war by everyone in the game. Another strategy that's common is declaring several wars and one-shipping those wars for nation that don't have navy and suddenly they buy navy. The original intent there was to beige but the damage is relatively minimal. Now you can't one-ship an opponent who has 150 ships so you give up on it. But is that your fault and should those people also receive warnings for slot filling? Of course not.

Have you tried turning it off and on again

The current war system is getting out of hand with the bugs. I'll give the benefit of the doubt to Alex since part of the problems the game is having is based on code he made years ago when he was just a noobish programmer. But it's is coming to a point where Alex is gonna have to make some tough decisions. The main idea that keeps this game alive is war. And if wars are gonna be even buggier from here on out, then the community is gonna die with it. The number one priority after this war ends needs to be rewriting the code for the war system so that it can handle the magnitude of players that GW's have nowadays. Not PWPedia, not new projects, and not cosmetic or QoL features. (this has been going on for years now, it's about time some major changes happen)

I prefer to dangerously play the game. Nothing like getting a real airstrike called on you.

Can I not say to hell with P&WRushmore, and go for a 40m high statue of Buorkhan instead?

TFW people don’t realize that this is a fake war to give us an excuse to fully militarize and lose some infra before hitting Celestial.

When you're on the frontier, in the vanguard, leading the way, life is never easy. The first brave Acadians were among the few to stride across the newly born world, and make it their own. They excelled, dominated, left an indelible mark on history for all time. All know who we are, and what we have done, what great works have been wrought. No man, no nation, no army could defeat them. Unfortunately, some enemies lurking in the deep woods are far more than mere men. Strikingly absent from the "report" cobbled together by the crook calling himself our admin are details. Details of how he maliciously manipulated the facts and game rules, and treated NPO like dirt while lying to their faces. This was not even his first offense, no, but merely the bloody crescendo of a vicious campaign to drive them out of the mess this world has become. We have seen this, and more in our time here. NPO are not those first dauntless few, they are not our oldest friends and allies, yet they were among those few who supported Acadia at our lowest moments when friends were in short supply. When news of this betrayal reached us, the Colonial Council gathered, and reached one conclusion. The great work must be abandoned, we cannot go on. We cannot in good faith continue to enable the toxicity, cheating, and worse that has doomed so many today. Change will come to Acadia, beautiful and deadly in all its many forms. Many of us will be embarking on the next ship away from here, to boldly go on a new adventure wherever the winds will take us. Some of us will remain to keep the lights on, and my final request is that we be left alone to sort out our business. Our discord will remain open forever for all Acadians and allies to gather and share a few moments together. Acadia endures, good luck to you all. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ On a personal note, I've spent a fair chunk of my life here with you all, met a lot of people, and had a lot of wild times - good and bad. I'll always treasure that, if nothing else about this mess. Been thinking about it for a while, so now is as good a time as ever. Far too many people to thank for making it worth sticking around, and PnW doesn't deserve such a fine community. I'll be around here to finish up some things and then on Discord if you know where to find me. Always remember why you're here, and leave some breadcrumbs out if you have the time. - TheNG

I started playing this game because I got talked into it by friends from my CN days. Joined UPN, thought it might be fun to carry a spear. After a short time there the itch to lead overcame me and those same friends asked me to help out at NAC. I should have bought ointment instead... j/k Leading NAC was a struggle at first, my partner in crime Dorsaiwolf was a tremendous help, eventually I had the reigns and we figured out that we didn't know the first thing about fighting in a major alliance war. And there was that alliance flag, yeah I know. But we learned, got stronger, and the long running fight with Arrgh began. That fight eventually ended in a victory of sorts, but not without considerable effort and those of you who went through that effort and stuck around, you will always have my gratitude and my friendship. That brings us up to the merger with DEIC. It was arguably the best merger in P&W history, made that way because our strengths complimented each other so well. It also helped that TheNG and I were like brothers from different mothers--more times than I can count we would finish each other's thoughts about some FA idea or alliance policy. He was the extrovert that went out and spent countless hours interfacing with other alliances, the Meme King-in-Chief, while me with my contrasting style mostly worked in the back areas and provided leadership wherever it was needed. Acadia was a success from start to finish under the leadership of TheNG and myself. I have no regrets. It was a hell of a ride. As much as I enjoyed helping to lead Acadia, I no longer enjoy the game. It's not just the events of the past couple of days, or even the past month that were *the* reason for my lost of interest, though they were certainly major factors. There are major and minor bugs in the software, some are being exploited even now. I don't see them being fixed any time soon. That requires full time staff that the admin of this game can't afford (and the players contributions could never properly fund based on the number of particpants) who can look at the game objectively and make the necessary corrections. As for the future, Acadia is more than just a P&W alliance. So Acadia will endure. As for New Kentucky, it will be dusted off and prepared for storage. A trophy of my time here. Perhaps some day in the far, far distance future if P&W is still around, all the bugs and exploits are fixed, and management improves, I shall take the trophy off the shelf and play with it. Never say never. For now though... Time to move on. George Clooney out.