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Poll for Downvotes

Should Downvotes be implemented again?  

150 members have voted

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24 minutes ago, Quichwe10 said:

This is definitely a suggestion I would agree with, the return of downvotes, and the removal of the totaled karma system. 

Never really understood the Karma system. Thought it was stupid and meaningless. I don't think very many people care what their overall score is nor should it bother them. I figure at the time it was just a neat stat people thought would be interesting but in reality just pointless. 

Like so many people have said down voting is important to gauge the community. Sure, it's not to see people go back and forth discussing ideas but really most people won't nor care to deal with the trolls and goblins of the OWF. 

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upvote me to use me as a downvote button for OP






^ that is what you're going to get in all threads now @Alex

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Guest John Q Listener

I think the removal of the downvotes is a very good thing. 

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Just now, John Q Listener said:

I think the removal of the downvotes is a very good thing. 

Would you perhaps mind elaborating on your reasoning behind it? And, what would your opinion be on the elimination of the totaled karma system compared to that of the downvote?

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Guest John Q Listener
1 minute ago, Quichwe10 said:

Would you perhaps mind elaborating on your reasoning behind it? And, what would your opinion be on the elimination of the totaled karma system compared to that of the downvote?

The karma system overall is fine, but downvotes were definitely being used by a small group of bad-faith actors as a (in their view) means of fighting back seeing as they lost a major war. Maybe in the future downvotes can be re-added but right now I am unsure whether this will be possible.

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1 minute ago, John Q Listener said:

The karma system overall is fine, but downvotes were definitely being used by a small group of bad-faith actors as a (in their view) means of fighting back seeing as they lost a major war. Maybe in the future downvotes can be re-added but right now I am unsure whether this will be possible.

The karma system as a whole would then need to be removed. Sure, the downvotes are abused - but I mean you could say the same for an upvote in the karma system. Just depends on what side you're on. Removing the possibility within a karma system and only allowing positive remarks on a post, in a perfect world, is fine. The whole 'if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all' type of golden rule plays its part. This isn't a perfect world, this isn't a perfect community. 

Backlash of this removal is pretty much expected and shouldn't of not been expected - remove the whole damn thing. Remove the ability to favor a post, remove the ability to be like 'hey I need attention upvote me'  or 'downvote me bc I need attention'  - then you'll get that trash out of the community. This will likely take some pressure of mods as we definitely got a ton of reports for people downvoting their OP. I even got fricking warned for downvoting multiple posts that I wasn't a fan of - yes a warn for downvoting. 

Remove the whole system.

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11 minutes ago, John Q Listener said:

The karma system overall is fine, but downvotes were definitely being used by a small group of bad-faith actors as a (in their view) means of fighting back seeing as they lost a major war. Maybe in the future downvotes can be re-added but right now I am unsure whether this will be possible.

Eh. I view their usage of downvotes as stating their hefty disagreement with what has been stated. Merely being on the losing side of a war should not mean that one loses the right to voice either their displeasure at less than stellar actions done by their opponents, nor to correct continually and demonstrably false statements. Coalition B itself made mention way back during the beginning of the war when they were on the ropes by planning to mass downvote Buorhan's posts, though that in of itself was also done to attack his total forum Karma to get a rise out of him. That incident right there, as well as Joi's statement on Karma are prime reasons why I favor rather the dissolution of the Karma system instead of the downvote.

5 minutes ago, Mad Max said:

Backlash of this removal is pretty much expected and shouldn't of not been expected - remove the whole damn thing. Remove the ability to favor a post, remove the ability to be like 'hey I need attention upvote me'  or 'downvote me bc I need attention'  - then you'll get that trash out of the community. This will likely take some pressure of mods as we definitely got a ton of reports for people downvoting their OP. I even got fricking warned for downvoting multiple posts that I wasn't a fan of - yes a warn for downvoting. 

Remove the whole system.

Wait, when did this happen? What was the reasoning given behind this?

Edited by Quichwe10
Edited for Mad Max's portion

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12 minutes ago, John Q Listener said:

The karma system overall is fine, but downvotes were definitely being used by a small group of bad-faith actors as a (in their view) means of fighting back seeing as they lost a major war. Maybe in the future downvotes can be re-added but right now I am unsure whether this will be possible.

No, actually, the bad-faith actors aren't the ones using downvotes, they're the ones complaining about earned downvotes. As seen here.

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20 minutes ago, John Q Listener said:

The karma system overall is fine, but downvotes were definitely being used by a small group of bad-faith actors as a (in their view) means of fighting back seeing as they lost a major war. Maybe in the future downvotes can be re-added but right now I am unsure whether this will be possible.

Only a pathetic person would attempt to fight a war with downvotes. I am not saying these people don't exist but I don't think we should cater to them in any manner or fashion either.

Personally, I support getting rid of the whole system entirely and I can't help but wonder about the sort of person who takes the receiving of feedback via upvotes/down votes in a serious manner. Say what you need to say and get on with it. If you are tailoring your posts to gain upvotes or prevent downvotes, then I suppose what you have to say isn't worth saying anyway.

(you as in general you, not you specifically)

Edited by Charles the Tyrant

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7 minutes ago, Quichwe10 said:

Eh. I view their usage of downvotes as stating their hefty disagreement with what has been stated. Merely being on the losing side of a war should not mean that one loses the right to voice either their displeasure at less than stellar actions done by their opponents, nor to correct continually and demonstrably false statements. Coalition B itself made mention way back during the beginning of the war when they were on the ropes by planning to mass downvote Buorhan's posts, though that in of itself was also done to attack his total forum Karma to get a rise out of him. That incident right there, as well as Joi's statement on Karma are prime reasons why I favor rather the dissolution of the Karma system instead of the downvote.

Wait, when did this happen? What was the reasoning given behind this?

November 1 2018 - this happened.

Basically, there was a thread, I downvoted some posts that I didnt agree with. That person reported me for downvoting multiple of their posts even though they went through my entire post history and downvoted stuff from beginning of time. I got a warn :P 

 

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1 hour ago, Supreme Master Joi said:

I personally didn't enjoy the experience of getting downvoted for being a new member with potentially inflammatory/ignorant opinions, but there are clearly some users out there that have been gluttons for the things.

50 minutes ago, John Q Listener said:

The karma system overall is fine, but downvotes were definitely being used by a small group of bad-faith actors as a (in their view) means of fighting back seeing as they lost a major war. Maybe in the future downvotes can be re-added but right now I am unsure whether this will be possible.

I don't like this arguement. I won't dispute that the downvote system has been abused and that downvotes are spammed by some people against other people. However, if you review the poll, you'd see that the overwhelming majority of people want downvotes back. The disparity between 'yes' and 'no' is so large that you'd have to assume that players from both sides of the war want downvotes back.

I don't believe a mechanism that so many players enjoyed should be removed because of a few bad actors. That's a bad precedent to set.

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1 hour ago, Charles the Tyrant said:

Only a pathetic person would attempt to fight a war with downvotes.

Wow, great self-own of your coalition.  Masterful.

Edited by Sardonic
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5 minutes ago, Sardonic said:

Wow, great self-own of your coalition.  Masterful.

So you would support the actions of an idiot just because they are a member of your coalition?

Actually, that explains a lot  ?

Edited by Charles the Tyrant
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I made a controversial topic just to get the downvotes, and what did they do?! They removed it! 

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10 hours ago, Sir Scarfalot said:

You're very new here, so I'd like to point out to you that this spite was nowhere near as prevalent nor as toxic as it is today prior to NPO's naked abuse of their own allies in their entry into the war. Which itself was well prior to your joining.

All you've seen is the hatred resulting from your own side's despicable actions, which has understandably led to you forming the completely and utterly false impression that your side isn't at fault.

Before you joined, we did have a functional upvote/downvote system where the relatively rare abuses of that system were socially condemned by all sides. Now, that trust has been broken. Not by you, no, but certainly by those that you cleave to, and if you genuinely want to see a return to those better days then you're going to have to start taking personal responsibility for who you support.

Nah that's BS. This place has always been toxic. The only difference is those that ferociously use the downvote system for toxicity are  now all on the same side.

7 hours ago, Thalmor said:

However, if you review the poll, you'd see that the overwhelming majority of people want downvotes back

92/ 9,164 are in favour. That is not an overwhelming majority.

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@Tiberius That's an amusing attempt at using Alex's favorite line when he tries to gauge support from the forums and gets burned.

Unfortunately anybody with any recordable intelligence at all who just read your post would realize that when discussing changes to bloody forums, the opinions of people on it are the only ones that matter. After all if you're on not on the forums, you neither know it occurred nor have an opinion on it.

If you're going to try and spin bullshit there's multiple people, friend and foe who can teach you to do it right, and not this T-ball level crap.

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10 minutes ago, Akuryo said:

@Tiberius That's an amusing attempt at using Alex's favorite line when he tries to gauge support from the forums and gets burned.

Unfortunately anybody with any recordable intelligence at all who just read your post would realize that when discussing changes to bloody forums, the opinions of people on it are the only ones that matter. After all if you're on not on the forums, you neither know it occurred nor have an opinion on it.

If you're going to try and spin bullshit there's multiple people, friend and foe who can teach you to do it right, and not this T-ball level crap.

Whichever way you look at it it isn't an overwhelming majority of forum users. All the poll proves is that the users who actually voted were thus far in favour. Even going off the most users online on the forums at one time which was 895, you are still only looking at just over 10%. I'm sure if you disagree you can downvote me.

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Showing disagree in itself doesnt contribute anything really. Sure its a nice sensation but no more then that. It isnt real communication rather a popularity contest. I do think it will lead to more walls of text 

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I'd personally be in favor of just removing the karma/vote system entirely, I don't think it adds anything helpful.

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Holy crap, just get rid of the dumb voting system. It is obviously the reason for the game to die it seems.

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3 hours ago, Tiberius said:

Nah that's BS. This place has always been toxic. The only difference is those that ferociously use the downvote system for toxicity are  now all on the same side.

92/ 9,164 are in favour. That is not an overwhelming majority.

 

3 hours ago, Tiberius said:

Whichever way you look at it it isn't an overwhelming majority of forum users. All the poll proves is that the users who actually voted were thus far in favour. Even going off the most users online on the forums at one time which was 895, you are still only looking at just over 10%. I'm sure if you disagree you can downvote me.

I'm not sure why you're bringing up the number of nations in regards to a forum poll. The number itself is faulty because most nations belong to inactives. But as you pointed out yourself, only a fraction of that uses the forums. If you observe the forums, you would see that the poll has about 130 votes right now. I would say that number reflects the number of active forum users.

The overwhelming majority of active forum users support bringing back downvotes, and that's more relevant than what nobodies who don't use the forum thinks. 

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16 hours ago, Inst said:

New poll: should NPO be B&?

 

Vote like for yes, thanks for no.

No. This kind of thinking is exactly what NPO/BK are doing currently, except it's a different target. The last thing PnW needs is more deletions or bans. The active playerbase (that were here pre-war) is already significantly lower due to the war. That going down any further hurts everyone.

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7 hours ago, Tiberius said:

Nah that's BS. This place has always been toxic. The only difference is those that ferociously use the downvote system for toxicity are  now all on the same side.

92/ 9,164 are in favour. That is not an overwhelming majority.

Well shit I guess my survey proves that only 2000/300000000 people go to high school. Frick I guess nobody goes to high school. FYI you don't count non-response when making a ratio on a survey, a better representative 102/129, which is definitely an overwhelming majority. 

 

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4 hours ago, Ham Dim Sum said:

Holy crap, just get rid of the dumb voting system. It is obviously the reason for the game to die it seems.

image.png.8a89283b1bfa512d62fc31103e655981.png

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In support of down votes, I have decided to down vote this poll.

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