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Thalmor

Poll for Downvotes

Should Downvotes be implemented again?  

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2 minutes ago, nippythefish said:

it's funny how downvotes were anonymous but now we have literal nobodies coming out the woodworks to post an image of an arrow.

Downvotes were not anonymous. I'm not sure what you're talking about.

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You guys showing disagreement with each other is pretty toxic, this is a Christian game forum and what you guys are doing is just not okay.

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Just now, Thalmor said:

Downvotes were not anonymous. I'm not sure what you're talking about.

they certainly weren't a person flailing about with a sign

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New poll: should NPO be B&?

 

Vote like for yes, thanks for no.

Edited by Inst
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2 minutes ago, nippythefish said:

it's funny how downvotes were anonymous but now we have literal nobodies coming out the woodworks to post an image of an arrow.

They are only anonymous to people that created thir nation after January 2019. Only members that created their nation before 2019 could see who downvoted.

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1 hour ago, Deulos said:

Probably one of those GOONS people. You know Alex loves them cuz of the vip revenue he makes from them.

 

I doubt it was one of them. Would be a bit odd if the people advocating for attacking shitposters got upset over downvotes.

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Change is hard!

Frowning takes more muscles than smiling!

Maybe if people weren't so spiteful on the forums we could be trusted with a system that constructively measures negativity.

Until then, all I ask for is your Thanks.

  • Thanks 2

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1 minute ago, Supreme Master Joi said:

Change is hard!

Frowning takes more muscles than smiling!

Maybe if people weren't so spiteful on the forums we could be trusted with a system that constructively measures negativity.

Until then, all I ask for is your Thanks.

You're very new here, so I'd like to point out to you that this spite was nowhere near as prevalent nor as toxic as it is today prior to NPO's naked abuse of their own allies in their entry into the war. Which itself was well prior to your joining.

All you've seen is the hatred resulting from your own side's despicable actions, which has understandably led to you forming the completely and utterly false impression that your side isn't at fault.

Before you joined, we did have a functional upvote/downvote system where the relatively rare abuses of that system were socially condemned by all sides. Now, that trust has been broken. Not by you, no, but certainly by those that you cleave to, and if you genuinely want to see a return to those better days then you're going to have to start taking personal responsibility for who you support.

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2 minutes ago, Sir Scarfalot said:

You're very new here, so I'd like to point out to you that this spite was nowhere near as prevalent nor as toxic as it is today prior to NPO's naked abuse of their own allies in their entry into the war. Which itself was well prior to your joining.

All you've seen is the hatred resulting from your own side's despicable actions, which has understandably led to you forming the completely and utterly false impression that your side isn't at fault.

Before you joined, we did have a functional upvote/downvote system where the relatively rare abuses of that system were socially condemned by all sides. Now, that trust has been broken. Not by you, no, but certainly by those that you cleave to, and if you genuinely want to see a return to those better days then you're going to have to start taking personal responsibility for who you support.

it's weird but I saw your systems seizing up while I was reading your post.   It's almost as if you guys have an antiquated system that is being abolished.  Oh,. 



OH.


OH MY.

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There are at least 18 people who wish they could downvote this post.

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If you criminalize downvotes, only criminals will have downvotes.

I'm kidding.  This seems like a reasonable step to curtail certain kinds of negativity but go off OP.

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7 minutes ago, Sardonic said:

I'm kidding.  This seems like a reasonable step to curtail certain kinds of negativity

Here’s a theory, what if instead of curtailing and attempting to “delete” negativity we deal with it like functioning members of society? Deleting the option to dislike something doesn’t solve anything, if instead we take criticism and understand why people don’t like us we could work towards something better. Deleting a button isn’t going to help purge negativity, its just going to make people more mad.

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Just now, csans said:

Here’s a theory, what if instead of curtailing and attempting to “delete” negativity we deal with it like functioning members of society? Deleting the option to dislike something doesn’t solve anything, if instead we take criticism and understand why people don’t like us we could work towards something better. Deleting a button isn’t going to help purge negativity, its just going to make people more mad.

Yeah I agree how about we deal with adversity like functioning members of society 

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9 minutes ago, csans said:

Here’s a theory, what if instead of curtailing and attempting to “delete” negativity we deal with it like functioning members of society? Deleting the option to dislike something doesn’t solve anything, if instead we take criticism and understand why people don’t like us we could work towards something better. Deleting a button isn’t going to help purge negativity, its just going to make people more mad.

If I'm reading this right you seem to have answered yourself already with the part I bolded above... nonetheless:

The removal of the Downvote button means that people have to actually work out their frustrations and criticisms in a format that can actually be dealt with cooperatively in a social medium.

Reacting with a bland, simple "NO" to a post from someone you dislike has no context other than negativity. If you disagree with something someone has said on the forums, now you need to contribute to the discussion, preferably in a constructive format. The only way understanding can be created between two sides on a debate is through honest and open discourse.

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1 minute ago, Supreme Master Joi said:

  If I'm reading this right you seem to have answered yourself already with the part I bolded above... nonetheless:

The removal of the Downvote button means that people have to actually work out their frustrations and criticisms in a format that can actually be dealt with cooperatively in a social medium.

Reacting with a bland, simple "NO" to a post from someone you dislike has no context other than negativity. If you disagree with something someone has said on the forums, now you need to contribute to the discussion, preferably in a constructive format. The only way understanding can be created between two sides on a debate is through honest and open discourse.

Judging by the previous two responses above you, I must confess that honest and open discourse is a bridge too far. 

That being said, in regards to Downvotes... An issue with having everyone be forced to do that then makes it so that there is a great deal more clutter around the thread as a number more of people voice their disagreement, and than others will just shake their heads in private and then say nothing. There is little wrong with honest and open discourse, but I must ask you how many people you think will scroll through every page until the very end and read through it all.

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4 minutes ago, Quichwe10 said:

Judging by the previous two responses above you, I must confess that honest and open discourse is a bridge too far. 

That being said, in regards to Downvotes... An issue with having everyone be forced to do that then makes it so that there is a great deal more clutter around the thread as a number more of people voice their disagreement, and than others will just shake their heads in private and then say nothing. There is little wrong with honest and open discourse, but I must ask you how many people you think will scroll through every page until the very end and read through it all.

upvote this because it has words and despite being completely unreadable is posted by a member of the opposing coalition.
we're having a jumble party and you're invited, congrats.

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Just now, nippythefish said:

upvote this because it has words and despite being completely unreadable is posted by a member of the opposing coalition.
we're having a jumble party and you're invited, congrats.

Case in point, @Supreme Master Joi.

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Just now, Quichwe10 said:

Case in point, @Supreme Master Joi.

tag people all you want.  Your post was completely void of meaning.  It's as if you intentionally meant to convey absolutely nothing to the community.  Some people would call that spam, but I call it typical of the opposition.   

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"The light that burns twice as bright burns half as long - and you have burned so very, very brightly, Roy nippythefish."

- Blade Runner PnW

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You know I think the replies to this thread are an argument for downvotes in itself.

  • Upvote 3

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26 minutes ago, Supreme Master Joi said:

 The removal of the Downvote button means that people have to actually work out their frustrations and criticisms in a format that can actually be dealt with cooperatively in a social medium.

Reacting with a bland, simple "NO" to a post from someone you dislike has no context other than negativity. If you disagree with something someone has said on the forums, now you need to contribute to the discussion, preferably in a constructive format. The only way understanding can be created between two sides on a debate is through honest and open discourse.

Your assumption that people will voice their disagreements and have a dialogue in the place of downvoting is wrong. It's simple human psychology that when given an easy outlet to something, taking away that outlet would result in the engagement simply not happening. You're not going to spur meaningful dialogue by taking away downvotes.

In regards to your second paragraph, I just want to bring attention that I am doing my part to bring life to having constructive, honest, and open discourse. I did a poll to show where people said, I made the voter ID private so nobody would be hounded, and I admitted I could be wrong in my OP. I have also patiently responded to people asking me why I believe what I believe and I have backed them up with facts and logic I best I can. I'm not against trying to have better discussions on the OWF but removing downvotes is not a milestone on that path.

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39 minutes ago, Supreme Master Joi said:
52 minutes ago, csans said:

 

If I'm reading this right you seem to have answered yourself already with the part I bolded above... nonetheless:

The removal of the Downvote button means that people have to actually work out their frustrations and criticisms in a format that can actually be dealt with cooperatively in a social medium.

Reacting with a bland, simple "NO" to a post from someone you dislike has no context other than negativity. If you disagree with something someone has said on the forums, now you need to contribute to the discussion, preferably in a constructive format. The only way understanding can be created between two sides on a debate is through honest and open discourse.

I think you misunderstood me, and by that I mean I think you read what you wanted to read to find a fault in my perfectly valid claim. Why are downvotes removed? Because people can’t take criticism, obviously voicing your opinion is better than downvoting, however how are you supposed to show you disliked something if someone already brought your point up? Are you supposed to restate what they said? That just seems dumb. Besides you’ve completely abandoned your argument entirely if this is what your are arguing now, since arguably a direct comment criticizing you is more hurtful than 10 red arrows and a negative score on a forum about a videogame that fits a niche subgenre of strategy games.

58 minutes ago, Sardonic said:

Nah

Now don’t you wish you could downvote me?

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Oh. Hello Facebook reaction bar!

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Hey, it's okay Thalmor - I'm just explaining what *I* think the reasoning is behind Alex's change to the forums. I'm intentionally not leveling any fingers at any specific posters.

I personally didn't enjoy the experience of getting downvoted for being a new member with potentially inflammatory/ignorant opinions, but there are clearly some users out there that have been gluttons for the things.

Being able to gauge whether a post is unpopular is a useful tool for testing the community waters. Having a reputation statistic for "unpopular posters" is a little trickier, however, due to the political nature of the PnW game itself. If there's a statistic that can be manipulated to hurt someone's "social score" for a tangible political advantage, then someone in this game is going to do it. 

Personally, I'd be fine with Downvote reactions making a return, but perhaps only if they weren't actually tracked on user profiles. Just keep Downvotes on the posts themselves, not on the users.

13 minutes ago, csans said:

how are you supposed to show you disliked something if someone already brought your point up? Are you supposed to restate what they said? That just seems dumb.

arguably a direct comment criticizing you is more hurtful than 10 red arrows and a negative score on a forum about a videogame that fits a niche subgenre of strategy games.

That does sound dumb. How about: if someone brings up the point you had in mind for a critique you can Upvote that post in agreement? 

Arguably I'd rather know why someone disagrees with me and see nine upvotes on their post than see ten downvotes on my post with no reasoning why.

  • Upvote 2

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4 minutes ago, Supreme Master Joi said:

Hey, it's okay Thalmor - I'm just explaining what *I* think the reasoning is behind Alex's change to the forums. I'm intentionally not leveling any fingers at any specific posters.

I personally didn't enjoy the experience of getting downvoted for being a new member with potentially inflammatory/ignorant opinions, but there are clearly some users out there that have been gluttons for the things.

Being able to gauge whether a post is unpopular is a useful tool for testing the community waters. Having a reputation statistic for "unpopular posters" is a little trickier, however, due to the political nature of the PnW game itself. If there's a statistic that can be manipulated to hurt someone's "social score" for a tangible political advantage, then someone in this game is going to do it. 

Personally, I'd be fine with Downvote reactions making a return, but perhaps only if they weren't actually tracked on user profiles. Just keep Downvotes on the posts themselves, not on the users.

This is definitely a suggestion I would agree with, the return of downvotes, and the removal of the totaled karma system. 

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