greatkitteh Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 I just feel insulted I dropped from NPO's unanimous consensus #1 most hated shitposter to like, below @Dio Brando on the OWF shitposting train. 1 :sheepy: :sheepy: Greatkitteh was here.- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Settra Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 20 minutes ago, greatkitteh said: I just feel insulted I dropped from NPO's unanimous consensus #1 most hated shitposter to like, below @Dio Brando on the OWF shitposting train. You still have a chance to get it back. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micchan Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 1 hour ago, greatkitteh said: I just feel insulted I dropped from NPO's unanimous consensus #1 most hated shitposter to like, below @Dio Brando on the OWF shitposting train. We know you are, no need of proofs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwu Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Kinda expected it sooner or later... or maybe IQ did... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 This thread is so much about CN you managed to summon a political post out of me, are you happy now? 1 1 if you carry your childhood with you, you never become older Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dio Brando Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Just now, Mogar said: This thread is so much about CN you managed to summon a political post out of me, are you happy now? This makes me deeply concerned with regards to the allocation of my time and energies. Also, hello. Post more. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bart Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 1 minute ago, Mogar said: This thread is so much about CN you managed to summon a political post out of me, are you happy now? Stand back, I got an Internet Explorer installer and I'm not afraid to use it against you! Are you truly ready to face the ultimate weapon of destruction? 3 hours ago, Placentica said: Person who made that video should feel really ashamed. It's completely unnecessary and stuff like that is why so many people avoid these forums due to toxicity. [OOC: I really hope some more IC/OOC moderation is brought on board to clean this up.] It is quite sad, if it had been a funny parody it might have passed. But this was no better than career politicians cutting half out of someone's statement in an attempt to defend and validate an inexcusable statement. But in a unique way it's still less annoying than people putting square flags on stock photos without blending them in and calling it propaganda. I solemnly swear Lord of Darkness is up to no good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smith Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 On 6/24/2019 at 5:06 AM, Smith said: Since we are posting logs... Edit: Smoffquentin is Shadowthorne/Keshav 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Sphinx Posted June 25, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted June 25, 2019 (edited) The fact I have to stop watching the Cricket to post in this train wreck of a thread... 4 hours ago, Sketchy said: snip Sketchy mate come on. You're serious? Using out of context logs from a over 2 hour conversation with hypothetical scenarios raised doesn't help your case in fact it makes you seem even more desperate. I've given clarification for them and if you don't want to believe it that's fine, but it doesn't make it any more true than you hope it is. And Honestly, its astonishing at the level of hypocrisy that some from Chaos/KETOG have shown in this thread, that video and "transcript' is something special......... I honestly think some people are too blind to realise their irate ramblings and "theories", only draw people closer together against them. We're it not for the hatred you have for NPO or BK, they would've been enemies long ago but even when they try to break you just do everything in your power to make it painfully obvious to them that any break would be exploited by the very same people who keep pushing for this supposed "dynamism". Secondly to address the claims of "NPO killed CN they'll do it here as well", I played CN for years (2010-2015), when the game was still active, at no point did NPO have anything like the hegemony you claim. Only when the game really started dying and player numbers collpased below 10k did NPO start to become top dog and that wasn't through consolidation or anything or the sort it was simply because they had the staying power others did not, as someone mentioned before Doombird was far more hegemonic than NPO ever was. People claiming otherwise are either noobs who didn't experience old school CN, before its demise or are just spreading lies. In PW, NPO don't have anywhere near the sort of "hegemony" you claim. And yes I know people are going to say "Oh but Sphinx you plotted against Chaos, so your just as full of shit as them", yeah I did plot against them so of course I'm full of shit, but at least I can recognise our side is at fault to. Yes BK and NPO have a strong consolidation of the mid tier but the very same people parroting the garbage about that conveniently ignore G&G's even stronger vice grip on the upper tier. Grumpy especially has steamrolled through any upper tier opposition. Whilst that's not anything to fault Grumpy for, If people are going to try and bring up consolidation at least look in a damn mirror before conventionally ignoring you own consolidation. EDIT: Just to respond to Smith's post. You know maybe they volunteered to join..... Not everyone in NPO sphere is a brainless slave shackled to Roq's hamster ball. 2ND EDIT: Also why are people so obsessed about what NPO's CB is, global wars have been fought with no CB's before, why should you be so concerned with what another alliance chooses to do, Your feelings on that are worth squat since its NPO choice to take military action for their own reasons if you don't want to believe that, then be my guest but to repeat it over and over is just honestly sad. Now I can go back to the Cricket before its over..... Already had another out that I missed..... >_> Edited June 25, 2019 by Sphinx Typos 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smith Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Sphinx said: The fact I have to stop watching the Cricket to post in this train wreck of a thread... Sketchy mate come on. You're serious? Using out of context logs from a over 2 hour conversation with hypothetical scenarios raised doesn't help your case in fact it makes you seem even more desperate. I've given clarification for them and if you don't want to believe it that's fine, but it doesn't make it any more true than you hope it is. And Honestly, its astonishing at the level of hypocrisy that some from Chaos/KETOG have shown in this thread, that video and "transcript' is something special......... I honestly think some people are too blind to realise their irate ramblings and "theories", only draw people closer together against them. We're it not for the hatred you have for NPO or BK, they would've been enemies long ago but even when they try to break you just do everything in your power to make it painfully obvious to them that any break would be exploited by the very same people who keep pushing for this supposed "dynamism". Secondly to address the claims of "NPO killed CN they'll do it here as well", I played CN for years (2010-2015), when the game was still active, at no point did NPO have anything like the hegemony you claim. Only when the game really started dying and player numbers collpased below 10k did NPO start to become top dog and that wasn't through consolidation or anything or the sort it was simply because they had the staying power others did not, as someone mentioned before Doombird was far more hegemonic than NPO ever was. People claiming otherwise are either noobs who didn't experience old school CN, before its demise or are just spreading lies. In PW, NPO don't have anywhere near the sort of "hegemony" you claim. And yes I know people are going to say "Oh but Sphinx you plotted against Chaos, so your just as full of shit as them", yeah I did plot against them so of course I'm full of shit, but at least I can recognise our side is at fault to. Yes BK and NPO have a strong consolidation of the mid tier but the very same people parroting the garbage about that conveniently ignore G&G's even stronger vice grip on the upper tier. Grumpy especially has steamrolled through any upper tier opposition. Whilst that's not anything to fault Grumpy for, If people are going to try and bring up consolidation at least look in a damn mirror before conventionally ignoring you own consolidation. EDIT: Just to respond to Smith's post. You know maybe they volunteered to join..... Not everyone in NPO sphere is a brainless slave shackled to Roq's hamster ball. 2ND EDIT: Also why are people so obsessed about what NPO's CB is, global wars have been fought with no CB's before, why should you be so concerned with what another alliance chooses to do, Your feelings on that are worth squat since its NPO choice to take military action for their own reasons if you don't want to believe that, then be my guest but to repeat it over and over is just honestly sad. Now I can go back to the Cricket before its over..... Already had another out that I missed..... >_> Accusing others of theories and ramblings while your side proliferates fake war conspiracy theories is pretty ironic. What's even more ironic is your accusation that we are the ones forcing your spheres together when: 1. Nobody forced N$O to join this war when they did. They involved themselves in an ongoing war (which they admitted was opportunistic) which benefits BK and then play the victim card when the coalition whose war efforts they are stifling point this out 2. In the best case scenario (meaning the split was real and N$O was not involved) you and BK were planning a war on a sphere you massively outnumber. You had targets lined up and were at least trying to get another sphere to help out as needed. The apples and orange comparison of logs from 3-5 months ago, before IQ had split, before NPO signed t$, and before Chaos was formed is poor comparison to logs that take place after all that occurred. Personally I am still eager to see @Dio Brando respond to Adrienne's rebuttal that happened 50 pages ago. As far as NPO's protectorates "volunteering" to join. I mean maybe they did? Hand-waving it off as that though ignores the context of the conversation involving NPO and their protectorate ties, where it was being claimed those ties should not be factored into them "having too many ties" because they would not fight alongside them. Whether NPO calls them in or they "volunteer" it's clear these ties will fight when NPO is threatened which is a contradiction of their previous argument. Edited June 25, 2019 by Smith 6 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Spaceman Thrax Posted June 25, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted June 25, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, Shadowthrone said: @Keegoz this coupled with another couple of trusted folk who personally told us TKR was planning to hit us, but DMs have been deleted before screencaps were taken, pointed to the inevitable. Hahahaha. So you made it up. Ok. I have a log of Roq promising to wash my car, but it got deleted before I could cap it. CLEAN MY CAR! Also: I don't think the interview was intended as anything other than a joke. An internet-released radio show about a political game is, I would think , perfectly reasonable political fodder. But knowing who made it, if Roq doesn't see it that way I'm sure the people involved will be happy to take it down. Edited June 25, 2019 by Spaceman Thrax 2 10 2 Slaughter the shits of the world. They poison the air you breathe. ~ William S. Burroughs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowthrone Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 1 minute ago, Spaceman Thrax said: Hahahaha. So you made it up. Ok. I have a log of Roq promising to wash my car, but it got deleted before I could cap it. CLEAN MY CAR! If you say so ?♀️ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Smith Posted June 25, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted June 25, 2019 13 minutes ago, Spaceman Thrax said: Hahahaha. So you made it up. Ok. I have a log of Roq promising to wash my car, but it got deleted before I could cap it. CLEAN MY CAR! Also: I don't think the interview was intended as anything other than a joke. An internet-released radio show about a political game is, I would think , perfectly reasonable political fodder. But knowing who made it, if Roq doesn't see it that way I'm sure the people involved will be happy to take it down. I actually saw Roq getting started on it this morning 5 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bart Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Seriously? Reading this hurts my brain. ?♂️ 24 minutes ago, Smith said: 1. Nobody forced N$O to join this war when they did. They involved themselves in an ongoing war (which they admitted was opportunistic) which benefits BK and then play the victim card when the coalition whose war efforts they are stifling point this out Mirror, mirror on the wall, who's been whining the most of them all? It's easy to blame someone else of playing the victim card and whine about it, but by doing so you're pretty much trying to frame yourself as a victim. Luckily, complaining isn't really an effective weapon, otherwise we'd be in serious trouble. 26 minutes ago, Smith said: 2. In the best case scenario (meaning the split was real and N$O was not involved) you and BK were planning a war on a sphere you massively outnumber. You had targets lined up and were at least trying to get another sphere to help out as needed. If I may be frank for a minute here, going by your implied logic here, why does your sphere exist at all if it isn't the biggest? What I'm hearing here is a twisted version of complaining about someone being bigger than you and calling them a bully as a result of that. Yet you somehow expect that so-called "bully" to ignore you when you challenge them in any way. Life's unfair, deal with it. Improve your recruitment, nation building strategy, war strategy, ... 29 minutes ago, Smith said: The apples and orange comparison of logs from 3-5 months ago, before IQ had split, before NPO signed t$, and before Chaos was formed is poor comparison to logs that take place after all that occurred. Personally I am still eager to see @Dio Brando respond to Adrienne's rebuttal that happened 50 pages ago. Let me begin with the pedantically stating that we are on page 17 at this time of writing. Additionally, it is easy to write a version that fits your desired story line if you are selectively ignoring facts or don't know about everything that occurred. 31 minutes ago, Smith said: As far as NPO's protectorates "volunteering" to join. I mean maybe they did? Hand-waving it off as that though ignores the context of the conversation involving NPO and their protectorate ties, where it was being claimed those ties should not be factored into them "having too many ties" because they would not fight alongside them. Whether NPO calls them in or they "volunteer" it's clear these ties will fight when NPO is threatened which is a contradiction of their previous argument. Forcing your protectorate to join a war is sort of counterproductive when you're trying to protect them... 1 I solemnly swear Lord of Darkness is up to no good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pika Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 13 minutes ago, Smith said: I actually saw Roq getting started on it this morning I know this to be fake because @Spaceman Thrax Can’t possibly have a car that nice 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Dio Brando Posted June 25, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted June 25, 2019 Tbh I've maintained my civility for quite some time, but given the deliberate obtuseness people like Manthrax are showing (guess what honey, there's a big fricking difference between actually having proof that DMs were deleted that indicate that it was done again and having a similar set of logs, and trying to make up a bullshit analogy about washing cars) that's becoming harder. I was planning on not responding because I've seen exactly how dismissive you are of very legitimate plans that your own alliance had and I have far better things to do (which you, Smith, are well acquainted with because I gave you almost live updates of how those things developed IRL) than to indulge the passing fancy of people that aren't going to be convinced anyway, but okay. The fake interview (and the surprising number of upvotes it got) is just another example of your side's incredible assholery in the recent past. Let's have at it. Quote Everything there was clearly dated as being before the formation of N$O. The logs clearly reference IQ, which isn't supposed to exist anymore. There was a loose idea that came a month post-Knightfall and a month pre-Orbis Shuffle, not even remotely close to the smoking gun you're trying to paint it as. There was no divvying up of alliances by us like you saw with the BK log and no discussion of it outside then and soon to be allies. In other words, no plan and no coalition building. I've replied to this here, but I will reiterate regardless. The viewpoint that IQ had not split was something your bloc members and your alliance was spouting before Surf's Up, or T$/NPO entry in Dial Up was ever a thing. The major rallying cause you referenced was that we were a "threat to the game". That by itself demands that we are thinking of IQ not just as a bloc but a grouping of alliances you deem strong enough to label a game-level threat. In multiple conversations with your side of the game, it was made clear that people were suspecting NPO to have maintained formal ties more than us having not done so. I spent a very significant part of my time active just speaking to your side in an attempt to clear up past grudges as well as to connect with you guys, so yeah I'm more than a little familiar with how your thought process worked. I didn't paint anything as a smoking gun, and it is incredible to see you try to spin this as "but we didn't make a formal formal plan, so surely it isn't a valid CB!". That's not how things work. Remember DDR? Your CB was quite literally along the lines of: Antagonism; Horsecock mentioned getting allies to roll you; Justin trying to pull people away from your side; Our CBs: Continued antagonism (your low gov quite literally called us "a cancer on every game". Please frick off with your self righteous bullshit); You are seen telling Sphinx of the importance of getting certain alliances to work with you as opposed to settling their own vendettas. Your then FA-head (which presumably is not working on his own... again? ) also said similar things; Manthrax and Radoje working on getting allies from our side (presumably to work against us); See the hypocrisy? No? I thought so, you lying pieces of shit. Quote We were recovering and discussing potential future paths and then IQ split. Given that we're at war with the BK half, guess you're aware of who we saw as the bigger immediate threat in the long run, seeing as they took every opportunity to try and escalate things with us since the end of Knightfall. We had no such qualms with NPO. Your argument here is literally "We were going to hit IQ not NPO!" We were part of IQ. You would have hit us. I straight up asked you if you were going to hit NPO post Knightfall. If you were going to hit IQ, you were going to hit NPO, because we were part of IQ at the time you made those plans. So your plan for recovering and planning for the future was waging a war with your, and I quote, "[Y]our broken af warchest of 4 months"? Are you serious? You don't "plan" by reaching out to people you aren't allies with then and don't expect people to call you the frick out on that. Quote Chaos was not formed in order to hit NPO. That is what you asked and that is 100% true. Forming alliances and lasting relationships for the sole purpose of attacking someone is, in my opinion, idiotic. When we formed Chaos, the goal was not to hit any specific grouping, and I believe we said as much in our opening statement. Our goal was to embark on a new FA path with people we hadn't been allied to before and that's what we did. I asked, and you said it was a nonfactor entirely. That is a lie. I don't believe this was the sole reason either, but the groupings detailed in those logs quite literally mention those very alliances. You very explicitly state that you needed CoS for the assault. Sphinx mentions getting <Chaos bloc's lineup> to join a war against IQ to your FA head. You lied. Lordship of all people agreed with that. Quote Your DoW literally points to recent events from this war, not vague discussions from months ago and other than a random log from an unidentified person, there's no evidence that this was part of our plan. I am happy to show you log after log after log of us being against hitting NPO this war. If you seriously can not see why your bloc's conduct and what you have repeatedly been saying, in light of those logs, has been worrying and a reasonable room for believing you'd hit us down the line if not now, then I can't help you. I know for a fact that the downvote brigade will show up any minute after I post this and repeat the same bullshit that others will in an attempt to persuade... who? We're at an impasse, but your member baited me into responding, so yeah, here you go. Have fun with this frickfest of a forum. 2 11 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smith Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 7 minutes ago, Bart said: Seriously? Reading this hurts my brain. ?♂️ Mirror, mirror on the wall, who's been whining the most of them all? It's easy to blame someone else of playing the victim card and whine about it, but by doing so you're pretty much trying to frame yourself as a victim. Luckily, complaining isn't really an effective weapon, otherwise we'd be in serious trouble. If I may be frank for a minute here, going by your implied logic here, why does your sphere exist at all if it isn't the biggest? What I'm hearing here is a twisted version of complaining about someone being bigger than you and calling them a bully as a result of that. Yet you somehow expect that so-called "bully" to ignore you when you challenge them in any way. Life's unfair, deal with it. Improve your recruitment, nation building strategy, war strategy, ... Let me begin with the pedantically stating that we are on page 17 at this time of writing. Additionally, it is easy to write a version that fits your desired story line if you are selectively ignoring facts or don't know about everything that occurred. Forcing your protectorate to join a war is sort of counterproductive when you're trying to protect them... I'll quote @Nizam Adrienne since I was no involved in the creation of Chaos. "When we formed Chaos, the goal was not to hit any specific grouping, and I believe we said as much in our opening statement. Our goal was to embark on a new FA path with people we hadn't been allied to before and that's what we did." Whether you think that is a good reason or not is your opinion. But what's interesting to me is you seem to be implying the only reason to make a sphere is to make it as big as possible? It's good to see somebody admit that at least. I'm not really sure what your comment regarding protectorates is about. I'm pointing out that N$O said their protectorate ties shouldn't be a factor because they don't fight with them when that's proven not to be true, you have had multiple involved in this war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Thrax Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Dio Brando said: -more disingenuous trash that specifically mentions my name for some reason- Yawn. Got like a fifth of the way in. I dunno what I did to offend you. Presumably you're upset because you realize your government has no control over the political situation they have placed themselves in. But I don't even know you, so I dunno why you've suddenly got a problem with me. As I said, though, I don't see much reason to reply to your drivel, and I suppose I'll carry that rule onto the forums. Edit: Seriously, though. You should cool off. I don't see much necessity in calling me or anyone a "lying piece of shit". Give your head a shake. Edited June 25, 2019 by Spaceman Thrax 1 Slaughter the shits of the world. They poison the air you breathe. ~ William S. Burroughs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smith Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Dio Brando said: Tbh I've maintained my civility for quite some time, but given the deliberate obtuseness people like Manthrax are showing (guess what honey, there's a big fricking difference between actually having proof that DMs were deleted that indicate that it was done again and having a similar set of logs, and trying to make up a bullshit analogy about washing cars) that's becoming harder. I was planning on not responding because I've seen exactly how dismissive you are of very legitimate plans that your own alliance had and I have far better things to do (which you, Smith, are well acquainted with because I gave you almost live updates of how those things developed IRL) than to indulge the passing fancy of people that aren't going to be convinced anyway, but okay. I hope everything is doing better IRL for you. That said, I saw you were responding to other posts and not arguments from people like Adrienne which made it look to me like you were avoiding it. Edited June 25, 2019 by Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dio Brando Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Just now, Spaceman Thrax said: Yawn. Got like a fifth of the way in. I dunno what I did to offend you. Presumably you're upset because you realize your government has no control over the political situation they have placed themselves in. But I don't even know you, so I dunno why you've suddenly got a problem with me. As I said, though, I don't see much reason to reply to your drivel, and I suppose I'll carry that rule onto the forums. Uh? If you have any familiarity with how I act in-game, I can't be bothered to give more than two shits about my nation. I'm in this game because I like hanging out with certain people. I don't even really have a problem with you, but what you post. But meh. 1 minute ago, Smith said: I hope everything is doing better IRL for you. That said, I saw you were responding to other posts and not actual arguments from people like Adrienne which made it look to me like you were avoiding it. No, it went to shit a couple hours ago. Meh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasky Darkfire Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 8 hours ago, Tiberius said: Get with the show, we are bots. I appreciate it, gold is good right? You have the unyielding loyalty, I'll give you that. But bots usually have some sort of intelligence. Which you clearly lack. Sure. So good you could eat it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Dio Brando Posted June 25, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted June 25, 2019 8 minutes ago, Spaceman Thrax said: Edit: Seriously, though. You should cool off. I don't see much necessity in calling me or anyone a "lying piece of shit". Give your head a shake. You're right. My apologies. There was no need for the insults. 2 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeeeet Ronny D Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Comedy = tragedy + time. So I will allow it. as someone that was allied to roq back then, i can say it wasn’t a particularly enjoyable experience, and seeing what’s going on now with his current allies, I can understand their actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Thrax Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 1 minute ago, Dio Brando said: You're right. My apologies. There was no need for the insults. I appreciate that. No worries. : ) 2 Slaughter the shits of the world. They poison the air you breathe. ~ William S. Burroughs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bart Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Learn to use partial quotes, please. 15 minutes ago, Smith said: I'll quote @Nizam Adrienne since I was no involved in the creation of Chaos. "When we formed Chaos, the goal was not to hit any specific grouping, and I believe we said as much in our opening statement. Our goal was to embark on a new FA path with people we hadn't been allied to before and that's what we did." Whether you think that is a good reason or not is your opinion. But what's interesting to me is you seem to be implying the only reason to make a sphere is to make it as big as possible? It's good to see somebody admit that at least. I'm simply analysing your statement and removing the sugar coating. Let me rephrase it in a way you might understand: If you poke a dragon with a stick you're still going to get burned to the same degree. And no amount of complaining about how big the dragon, how much fire it can spout, or how small the stick was changes the fact that it's your own fault that you got burned by doing so. 15 minutes ago, Smith said: I'm not really sure what your comment regarding protectorates is about. I'm pointing out that N$O said their protectorate ties shouldn't be a factor because they don't fight with them when that's proven not to be true, you have had multiple involved in this war. A healthy protector-protectorate relationship means that you grant your protectorate the freedom to do as they please as long as it doesn't negatively affect you in any way. You seem to be under the impression that the protector is some sort of malicious grand-vizier with a big curled-up moustache directing the protectorates and ordering them to go to war. While you folks might (no idea to be honest) treat protectorates that way, most decent alliances do not. I solemnly swear Lord of Darkness is up to no good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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