A question for Americans who are voting for Hillary Clinton in November

[Buorhann]

I live in the south (Mississippi all my life, born and bred).  Not that it really gives an advantage on what is/isn't racist, but we do get called racist a lot.  And don't get me wrong here, I'm not here to really back Rahl in his debate as I support Trump more so than Hillary - but due to other reasons.

 

However, Kaiser, your statements on African Americans even made me cringe.  If you're cool with that, that's you man, but it is racist by proclaiming "they" and referring to African Americans.  The context you used needs work.

 

Black people are more suited to physical labour because they have higher levels of testosterone and melanin - which directly ties into manufacturing (it makes use of the skills that were given to them at birth).

 

Good lord man.

[LordRahl2]

I very clearly stated that the welfare state is not unique to African Americans, they simply have a larger need for it due to points I've previously made (criminal history (which can be directly related to thug culture), high school drop out rates and children out of wedlock) in case you forgot. Being able to identify people's race via characteristics is common sense - why do you think black people win so many of the Olympic Games? They are more physically capable. Yes, I believe that people of particular races are more suited to certain work because of the way they are made. Black people are more suited to physical labour because they have higher levels of testosterone and melanin - which directly ties into manufacturing (it makes use of the skills that were given to them at birth). That is stereotyping, and I'm aware of that and I'm sorry if that offends you but that's the truth.

 

A racist truth is still the truth

 

You called it "the African American welfare state".

 

Don't try to blow sunshine up my backside friend.

 

You double down with saying that black people will be great at manual labor.  For the love of all things holy did you read what you wrote?  My god man, incredible.

 

So given what you just wrote I have one follow up question:

Do you support and plan to vote for Mr. Trump?

[LordRahl2]

Great.  Have a fantastic night.

[Doktor Avalanche]

If you unironically used the term 'white privilege' then it's against my better judgement to argue with you. Take one look at the constitution and you can see there are at least four articles that solidify equality - but that's none of my business. Your point about 'not all 1.6 million are not trying to find work'. Even if that were true, which it most likely is - I'm sure there is a large sum of African Americans trying to find work - they do not have any qualification to do so. A large portion of those on welfare have not completed high school (which is the most important factor), have had a child out of wedlock or have had a criminal history. Those three reasons are why a majority - and I'm saying that out of assumption, but it is an educated guess - on why African Americans struggle to find work.

 

Also that's a terrible metaphor - even if you used proper English in formatting it. Let me fix it for you. 'You are digging a bigger grave for your argument than Hilary's lies.' Doesn't make much sense does it?

I used the term white privilege because it applies to job searches. I used the term because it applies to a failed attempt at finding equality for everyone when the reality is the majority of a population controls the society and the others are treated with bias, whether intended or not. Everyone has a bias. Throwing up the Constitution as evidence of equality is a joke considering the enforcement of such laws is what is debated, heavily. The Equal Rights Act itself did not even apply to my Nationality in the United States and we did not have a right to vote or own land until 1974, which we had to fight in courts against rich, white Lawyers overseen by rich, white Judges to apply our tribes to the Equal Rights Act. If you do not understand White Privilege and think everything is fine, you are part of the problem. This is not just some basic issue of people trying to get a handout or "fight with whitey", it is a legitimate problem that needs to be faced or there will be more conflict. 

 

Having a child out of wedlock is a sign of a welfare case? Let me guess. You think it is a "sin" too?

 

Amusing that you are correcting me over a correct, proper sentence when in fact you used the word "unironically" which is an improper adverb.

 

"You are doing more digging for your grave argument than Hillary tells lies." 

 

You, as in the person I am responding to, is in the act of burying him/herself into a grave/ditch he/she is not going to get out of, just the same as Hillary is digging herself into a grave/ditch by blatantly lying. pretty simple to understand from my first phrase.

Edited August 16, 2016 by Lo Pan

[Doktor Avalanche]

Can I just confirm that you are in fact African American? Because I see a serious victim complex in you. Unfortunately for your argument it is not 1974 anymore and African Americans are treated "free and equal" just as the constitution intended. If you find anything is unconstitutional, go to court over it - your most likely win because of the attitudes American courts share.

 

Of course I think it's a sin I'm a catholic.

 

Excuse my use of the word 'unironically' - I've been delving too far into the ironic meme community and the use of the word is different.

 

An alternate wording would be "you are digging a bigger grave for your arguments than Hilary is digging for her case" because the phrase "digging for your grave argument" makes no sense at all whatsoever. I understand the point you are trying to make, A for effort.

I am Native American/First Nations.

 

Do some research before getting into these arguments on American Society and try not to see things from your scope/spectrum of your existence in society, but try to look through others' perspectives before you make blanket statements. F for effort in debating though.

[Big Brother]

Can I just confirm that you are in fact African American? Because I see a serious victim complex in you. Unfortunately for your argument it is not 1974 anymore and African Americans are treated "free and equal" just as the constitution intended. If you find anything is unconstitutional, go to court over it - your most likely win because of the attitudes American courts share.

 

African Americans are not always treated as free and equal as the constitution intended. There's an almost incredulous amount of cases of repression and persecution through various means directed against African Americans, economically, socially, legally and in everyday life. Frankly, your Australian under 18 point of view of what it's like to be an African American in the United States today is wholly irrelevant, you have no idea what you're talking about and there's no way you could know unless you were an African American living in the United States. You're an outsider looking in at something you don't understand and your opinion on the matter is of no value, other than as an object of disgust for the more reasonable of us.

 

I mean.. "black people are better at physical labour than white people". Give me a break dude. What is this, the 1930s? Our ancestors fought and died in the millions to rid the world of your kind of bigoted, racist thinking and it should never be accepted in the world we live in today. I'll admit, when I was your age I had some similar ideas about race but honestly dude, all that is just bullshit. People are just people, trying to make their way in life one way or another. There's barely any difference from European to Asian to African and what differences there are are superficial.

[Buorhann]

What is a natural born black/dark skin person in Australia referred to as?

[Buorhann]

 In case you're unaware of the effect of testosterone in the body, testosterone has a direct impact on muscle growth and mass.

 

There's actually more to this than that.  You're simplifying it way too much.

 

Testosterone does help with building muscle, but it's not the only cause of muscle growth.

 

Without going into depth, you can have high levels of testosterone, but have little muscle mass.  Why?  Well, you actually need to do something physical to build it.  Also, using your argument that black men are more fit to do physical labor due to a 20% testosterone increase naturally is very negligible in today's world.  There's drugs and other methods to even that out.  Even then, 20% is negligible by itself considering...

 

It's not as simple as saying "Hey, I have 100 levels of testosterone, I'm going to be a heavy lifter in my life!"

Edited August 16, 2016 by Buorhann

[Guinevere]

Starting to go off topic.

[Doktor Avalanche]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3455741

 

Says testosterone in black people is 20% higher than it is in whites. In case you're unaware of the effect of testosterone in the body, testosterone has a direct impact on muscle growth and mass.

 

This literally says blacks are more physically capable than whites, you can't argue that.

What does the genetics of Blacks in America possibly having a higher chance of getting prostate cancer due to a study which could show a higher amount of testosterone have to do with the bigotry you brought up in this thread? What was the whole purpose of the link you provided?

 

You know what else you cannot argue? You have no clue what it means to be a minority in America. you have no idea what goes on beyond the illusion of your idea of living in America. Again, do some research before jumping on this type of topic.

 

Let me guess, as you did with me. You are white? You have an astounding amount of ignorance in your words and it is screaming with an extremely narrowed vision of reality. You have shown that the world is a giant duality which can be organized into right and wrong, good and bad, as it shows in your original posting of lazy African Americans need to go to work and get off welfare. Out of work? Must be lazy. Walk in another's shoes and find out why- take off the White Privilege Caucasian goggles , see and read- delve into the topic. See it exactly from the other point of view. Just a suggestion.

[Sketchy]

If you are confused I was trying to soften your language a bit.  "African Americans, aka black people, could "uses a day of hard work" (which is precisely what you said) sound an awful lot like a regression to slavery.  It really does.  "Lazy" was me trying to soften your own language.  But fine.

 

Only someone completely brainwashed by the left and their victimhood mentality could pick slavery out of that sentence.

 

Either that or you are intentionally misrepresenting his points in order to paint him as a racist.

 

You are probably the type of person, who when someone refers to african american crime statistics for example, you immediately jump to "OMG HES CALLING ALL BLACK PEOPLE CRIMINALS HES A RACIST", because you are triggered by the mere mention of factual evidence.

 

People like you are the reason actual discussion about these topics can't take place. If someone states anything even mildy offensive to you, factual or not, you throw away argument and start huffing and puffing and stomping your feet chucking a tantrum.

Edited August 16, 2016 by Sketchy

[Cromstar]

Referring to black people as lazy arose in the American south following the Civil War, as all those 'industrious' black people suddenly didn't have jobs, didn't get hired for jobs by white people, and thus were unemployed en masse. So White Southerners used this as proof that they were lazy and wouldn't do any work if the white man didn't force them too.

 

So yes, referring to black people as lazy is inevitably going to bring up the specter of slavery because the racist stereotype derives directly from such.

[AiOS]

Because Hillary has demonstrated she's qualified to be a president and Trump has demonstrated he isn't qualified to be one. She's the only one of the two that would actually understand what a group of generals, admirals, and military experts were advising in the few minutes a president needs to assess an emergency and decide on a course of action.

 

Maybe Trump will just trust his advisors, you say. Sure, until the advisors disagree and the president needs to "break the tie." You sincerely believe Trump has a better grip on world affairs to make that decision as opposed to Hillary with -all- her experience in the field of world affairs? You can't. It's so illogical that it borders on either insanity or a severe hatred of the USA that you would place its security in such dangerous hands.

 

ALL people lie. If you and Trump haven't, then you must be extremely special people. Hillary's "lies" are rarely more than omissions of facts, not outright lies like 'seeing a video of 40 million dollars in cash unloaded from plane' that in fact doesn't exist.

 

Funny you think Trump would be successful after he failed so spectaularly at proving Obama wasn't born here. lol...

 

Vote Trump, Vote Failure!

[Betulius]

Saying white and black people are totally identical in physical and mental capacity is denying biology. Yes, black people are better at physical labour than white people.

 

Actually, YOU'RE denying biology here. There is far more variation within each "race" than between them, so there is no genetic basis for race whatsoever. Sure, there are some differences we can cherry pick to identify them, but the differences aren't meaningful (skin color, slightly different bone structure in a very specific way, etc.)

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_genetics#Between-group_genetics

[Odin]

Well I can't exactly because first off I'm Australian and second I'm under 18, so I can't. Even then I'd vote cruz because he aligns with me the best, however I do support trump in his endeavour.

 

I'm very well aware of what I wrote, and I did not pertain to slavery man if that's what you're implying. Saying white and black people are totally identical in physical and mental capacity is denying biology. Yes, black people are better at physical labour than white people.

 

I called it the African American welfare state but I also said that it is not unique to African Americans. Latinos and hillbillies use the system and will never have to work because of it.

 

lol. Even if it's true what you say. There's always one thing that makes the monetary abuse of the state possible in the first place. The ruling Government. If the people voted them, then the majority voted "Ok" to abuse. That's democracy. And everyone who abuses it isn't stupid, he just uses his possiblities to the maximum, and if it's enough to live from , then Congratulations.

 

Don't know how far there are any biological differences besides the obvious phenotype. Norsemen have more muscles then blacks!

Though blacks are the only ones i've ever seen jumping on cars full of rage in footage. Â¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

 

What was even the thread's topic? 

[Thalmor]

What was even the thread's topic? 

 

Why are people voting her Hillary despite her many, many flaws. It was a personal question from me to those people.

[SoS]

I think it's fair to say that to some degree African Americans have been affected by "animal husbandry". I have to assume that slavers attempted to bring the best specimens possible. And, there was some measure of selective breeding. African Americans are kinda the best of Africans.

 

Why didn't they get their 40 acres and a mule? They migrated en mass to industrial centers - to work. Then, their neighborhoods were abandoned by white residents, commerce, capitalists, the industries that originally brought them. They're left with nothing in their neighborhood but liquor stores and pawn shops. No jobs.

 

I can't see Trump fixing that, as he seems to not understand the cause. Rather, he'd seem to believe they are lazy. And, he feeds the racist attitudes that perpetuate more of the same old shit.

 

HRC's liberal nonsense may be ineffective, but at least it attempts to address the root causes of disparity.

 

 

Why are people voting her Hillary despite her many, many flaws. It was a personal question from me to those people.

Bcs, they're both corrupt. But, Trump has no poise or self control. He's baited by tweets. He isn't fit to lead America. They literally ran someone worse than HRC. That's all.

Edited August 16, 2016 by SoS

[LostWorld]

They will vote for Hillary to choose the lesser evil. 

 

Yes she's corrupt and croocked. But all the politicians are to some degree. In 4 years republicans can have their shot with another candidate but Trump is just no go for a normal person.

[Cromstar]

Why are people voting her Hillary despite her many, many flaws. It was a personal question from me to those people.

 

For the record, as a registered Republican, I won't vote for Donald Trump or anyone other Republican who does not entirely disavow him because of the following:

 

-His increasingly racist comments

-His absurd sexism

-His and the GOP's general anti-LGBT stances

-His repeated appraisal of brutal and violent dictators

-His inability to ever admit to being wrong and refusal to apologize for anything

-His regular insults to our national military, both in general and in reference to specific people

-His blatant Islamophobia and repeated support for facially unconstitutional 'laws'

-His comments regularly calling for and endorsing the use of violence as a campaign tactic

-His utter and complete failure as a business person who has never managed a successful business in his life other than his real estate (maybe)

-His continued refusal to release his tax information so that he can continue to lie about his wealth and business acumen

-His shady business dealings where he paid himself to consult for the company he was CEO of, among other things

-His repeated lies and false statements he purports are true

-His encouragements of foreign enemies to take actions harmful to our nation in the hopes they might be beneficial to himself

-His idiotic comments on Russia at every step

-His complete and total lack of understanding foreign policy

-His complete and total lack of understanding how national economies work

-His repeatedly stated comments that he would simple default on the US national debt and that nothing would result from that

-His repeated calls to build a wasteful and pointless wall

-His comments on nuclear weapon proliferation

-His comments where he apparently was confused by the reluctance to USE nuclear weapons

-His habitual litigious nature and his ironic refusal to consider lawsuits against himself as having legitimacy

-His continuing habit of refusing to pay people who have provided him goods and services purely on his own whim

-His repeated comments indicating that his children serve as the core of his advisory staff despite none of them being qualified to do...anything

-His short temper and total inability to restrain himself, refrain from taking any bait laid before him, or stop acting like a 6 year old

-That after offering Kasich a position as VP who would handle foreign and domestic policy, the answer to the question of what Trump would do was 'Make America great again.'

 

That's all that comes to mind right off the top of my head, but its certainly not every reason I have for never voting for him. But I think the fact the list is this long speaks volumes.

[WISD0MTREE]

Trump is just no go for a normal person.

Quite the opposite. 

http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/08/politics/donald-trump-gop-civil-war/

[Big Brother]

Something physical? What, like labour?

 

Muscle enhancing products can used on black people to further their natural affinity for muscle growth. 20% is not negligible, it is a substantial increase, at the very least it is notable.

 

So what, you want to drug every black person and force them to take manual labor jobs because that's what they're most suited to do? What you seem to be suggesting is wrong on so many levels. From what I understand, you're basically promoting drug fueled slavery. What happened to African Americans being free and equal? To really be free and equal, don't you think they need to be able to decide what they make of their lives and what they put in their bodies? What gives you any right to dictate what is best for them? Would you accept it if someone came along and suddenly started blabbering on about what's good for white people, as if they somehow know what's best for you better than yourself?

 

Only someone completely brainwashed by the left and their victimhood mentality could pick slavery out of that sentence.

 

Either that or you are intentionally misrepresenting his points in order to paint him as a racist.

 

You are probably the type of person, who when someone refers to african american crime statistics for example, you immediately jump to "OMG HES CALLING ALL BLACK PEOPLE CRIMINALS HES A RACIST", because you are triggered by the mere mention of factual evidence.

 

People like you are the reason actual discussion about these topics can't take place. If someone states anything even mildy offensive to you, factual or not, you throw away argument and start huffing and puffing and stomping your feet chucking a tantrum.

 

It's obvious beyond any doubt that what he wrote was a racist comment with connotations to slavery. He wrote that black people are unemployed welfare leeches that don't work because they're content with the money they get from welfare (which is an obscenely racist generalization by itself) and then goes on to suggest that "they could use a day of hard work", as if all the lazy black people need to be forced to work (preferably manual labor jobs, apparently) for their own good. Do you honestly not see how one could pick slavery out of that? Because I genuinely find that difficult to believe. Even ignoring that post, he has posted racist stuff over and over all over this discussion. Maybe you're not aware of precisely what the definition of racism is, but I assure you his posts fit it like a glove.

 

There's nothing factual about racism. It's nonsense, you might as well claim that gravity doesn't exist. There's no merit to racist arguments which is why in most civilized parts of the world we've moved beyond that kind of reasoning rooted in prejudice and racialism and it's why people get shot down as soon as they make any argument with connotations to race. Rational society knows that race is wholly irrelevant and that there's no point in even bothering to humor any sort of argument made from a racist viewpoint. And as if that wasn't enough for any reasonable person, the racist things he was written are offensive to millions of people, they're just deliberately hurtful words without any root in reality. and it should not be tolerated. It's not okay whatsoever to utter the things he has so far. He hasn't presented factual evidence, he has skewed and spun certain facts so that they fit in with his racist narrative, providing only the bits of information that supports his view while seemingly deliberately ignoring the larger picture. If you really believe anything he has posted, you're basically a racist fool who's opinion should be dismissed as obvious nonsense.

 

Discussions on topics such as this need to happen, it's important they do, but that doesn't mean racist people shouldn't be called out on their bullshit racism when it becomes obvious. See, people tend to get kinda mad about racism because as it turns out, racism is offensive and makes people mad.. because it's offensive. If someone came up to you and told you that you and all the people like you are terrible, bad, lazy and worthless, basically just insulting you and everyone like you, would there not be a possibility of you being angered or at least experiencing some form of emotional response? Is it really so difficult to understand that people get pissed off about these things or are you just ripping on human emotions?

[Rozalia]

Wow, people have really gone overboard on that comment of yours. He notes there are differences in different types of people, saying this is not the case is blatantly wrong and saying they're "minor" doesn't make the statement wrong. The usage of words "labour" and "lazy" is likely what did it as when you talk in a generalization like that most people will go straight for "You're saying blacks are all born lazy and are too stupid for anything beyond menial labour work". I personally hate the subject of race as it just attracts people who want to show how much "virtue" they have. The issues correctly aren't racial, black people aren't naturally more criminal though statistically they are more prone in several countries for a variety of reasons. In America it would be the Democrats, the destruction of the family unit, and the destruction of jobs (considering Trump vows to bring jobs back he is the one who actually promises them the most), and naturally a negative culture developed from that and more which further doesn't help. However the discussion isn't something often done because once you start you get all the "RACIST" attacks which you then try to defend yourself from, they keep attacking, and the derailment is successful.

 

Oh and the "if you're not a minority then you can't understand" is false. There is such a thing as empathy to start with. Secondly white people can be discriminated against too and exist as a minority in their community as with the flooding of certain areas by minorities it means the white people who haven't left become a minority inside that area. They however aren't given the same level of protection a minority might get as they're the majority countrywide. I grew up first hand seeing and experiencing this so yes I think I know how it works. I also know that to the so called virtuous some minorities are simply worth more virtue points than others so if there is a conflict then they go for whoever is worth more (e.g Muslims vs Gays & Muslims vs Apostates). All these so called good people are loathsome hypocrites who are only interested in how others perceive them, nothing more.

 

For the record, as a registered Republican, I won't vote for Donald Trump or anyone other Republican who does not entirely disavow him because of the following:

 

-His and the GOP's general anti-LGBT stances

 

... A registered Republican who won't vote for Republicans with an Anti-LGBT stance? What? So have you never voted Republican then? Ironically Trump out of the folk who had any chance in the primaries was the most pro-LGBT candidate. 

 

 

[Cromstar]

... A registered Republican who won't vote for Republicans with an Anti-LGBT stance? What? So have you never voted Republican then? Ironically Trump out of the folk who had any chance in the primaries was the most pro-LGBT candidate. 

 

Donald Trump compared gay marriage to golf clubs. He also said he'd only appoint SCOTUS justices who supported overturning Obergefell vs. Hollings. He's not even a tiny bit pro-LGBT and has never said or done anything that amounted to actually being so and the party platform he helped draft called for an amendment to the Constitution to permanently strip people of their personal rights. On top of that, he has since proposed an immigration test that he himself would never be able to pass as a qualification for coming to America, because irony is also something Trump does not understand. And if that's the ONLY thing you can attempt to defend in the list I posted, I'd say that summarizes my point pretty clearly.

 

And I'm fully aware that the GOP on average is full of worthless shit heads. My first election I jumped through stupid hoops to absentee vote while out of state in order to ensure Rick Santorum lost his Senate reelection because he was a worthless piece of shit. My reasons for being a registered Republican have little to do with what people like Ted Cruz, Chris Christie and Paul Ryan think 'freedom' means.

Edited August 17, 2016 by Cromstar

[Floating Hippo]

The fact that so many are going to vote for Hillary, even after all you stated about her (which is pretty common knowledge) speaks a lot about how poorly people view the alternative and how much people think he can end up hurting out country. 

 

I'm not voting based off whom is the better person, because they are both pretty shitty at that. I am voting based off policies. The economy has historically done much better under a Democratic president, that is a fact, I also don't want to vote an Authoritarian into office based off fears and possibly destabilize the whole world, which America is completely capable of doing. 

[Rozalia]

Donald Trump compared gay marriage to golf clubs. He also said he'd only appoint SCOTUS justices who supported overturning Obergefell vs. Hollings. He's not even a tiny bit pro-LGBT and has never said or done anything that amounted to actually being so and the party platform he helped draft called for an amendment to the Constitution to permanently strip people of their personal rights. On top of that, he has since proposed an immigration test that he himself would never be able to pass as a qualification for coming to America, because irony is also something Trump does not understand. And if that's the ONLY thing you can attempt to defend in the list I posted, I'd say that summarizes my point pretty clearly.

 

And I'm fully aware that the GOP on average is full of worthless shit heads. My first election I jumped through stupid hoops to absentee vote while out of state in order to ensure Rick Santorum lost his Senate reelection because he was a worthless piece of shit. My reasons for being a registered Republican have little to do with what people like Ted Cruz, Chris Christie and Paul Ryan think 'freedom' means.

 

He isn't pro-gay marriage and has never been so. To say he isn't "a tiny bit pro-LGBT" simply because of that is hogwash, plenty of gay people don't want gay-marriage and it'd be absurd to say they are anti-LGBT for it. He hasn't even stated he'd outlaw it outright, simply to leave it to states like he seems to say for anything not part of his main platform that might anger the religious right (he has said the same about marijuana for example). 

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/23/us/politics/donald-trump-gay-rights.html?_r=0

 

I'm not quite understanding why this is a block for you then with Trump. Did you support Romney? McCain? Bush?

 

The fact that so many are going to vote for Hillary, even after all you stated about her (which is pretty common knowledge) speaks a lot about how poorly people view the alternative and how much people think he can end up hurting out country. 

 

I'm not voting based off whom is the better person, because they are both pretty shitty at that. I am voting based off policies. The economy has historically done much better under a Democratic president, that is a fact, I also don't want to vote an Authoritarian into office based off fears and possibly destabilize the whole world, which America is completely capable of doing. 

 

So you'll not vote over who is the better person because thats stupid... but you'll vote for someone based on an anecdote? There is no magical "Democrats" are better thing going on and even if there was... Trump isn't exactly a standard Republican so it doesn't even really apply. Also Clinton is more of a war monger than Trump so... I'm not seeing the destabilisation unless you think America's war for freedom & democracy stabilise the world.