a Statment from Hansarius and the United Purple Nations

[Prefonteen]

Well either your upper echelon lied to Mensa to establish a basis on which to sign a treaty, or you are lying in this post. Parties involved in signing this treaty have specified to me that it was on the basis that tS showed a desire to hit Rose at some point. 

 

Also are you forgetting the fact that we shared a mutual ally in BK? And that you guys have already admitted to proactively pushing for a war on us?

 

Roy *is* our upper echelon.

 

Our communications with BK have been open and forthright since their inception. Including when it came to Paragon-Covenant tensions. Yosodog can attest to this. This is a large part of why the BK-tS relationship remains strong as it is today.

 

You on the other hand, have militarized under a false premise, lied to your allies about it, attacked allies of allies (forcing them to our side) despite guaranteeing to them that you wouldn't. You have also screwed over your allies'  ally in SK over to by pre-emptively striking them despite an active treaty, to then have your ally e-lawyer his way out of defending its ally by striking offensively elsewhere and citing an obscure clause. 

[Prefonteen]

Is that such a bad thing?

 

As for the rest of your post, we have already established that you guys outright lied to us the last time you were plotting against us, and explicitly told us you had no intentions of doing so. So instead of listening to the words of those who we feel we cannot trust, we decided to act on several datapoints. Some of which are public, because they were moves made by tS, and other pieces which we have been asked to keep confidential.

 

All I can say is that we were confident that you guys would come for us in the future, and decided to do it in our terms, rather than let you do it on yours.

 

Anyway I feel like a broken record repeating the same stuff over and over, so i'll try my best to resist the temptation to do it again once I wake up. 

 

I am going to assume that you are referring to the tS treaty with SK. Yes, that was a public move. We signed a treaty.

 

Does that equate looking to roll you? Nah.

[Saru]

This 'desire to hit Rose' is false. 

 

So was I after Covenant, or after Rose? Which is it? Or are you going to claim I was after everyone at the same time, with the niche sphere I had at the time? Come on man, this is getting ridiculous.

 

Funny, because that's exactly what Mensa put it down to. And they have been direct and honest throughout, in my conversations with them.

 

You have already admitted that you attempted to go after us, so there's no need to revisit that angle. As for Rose, both tS/UPN signed with Mensa simultaneously, and that's what I was told. By this point we had already let you and Mensa know that we will not be going after you in response, and merely stay wary and cautious.

 

Roy *is* our upper echelon.

 

Our communications with BK have been open and forthright since their inception. Including when it came to Paragon-Covenant tensions. Yosodog can attest to this. This is a large part of why the BK-tS relationship remains strong as it is today.

 

You on the other hand, have militarized under a false premise, lied to your allies about it, attacked allies of allies (forcing them to our side) despite guaranteeing to them that you wouldn't. You have also screwed over your allies'  ally in SK over to by pre-emptively striking them despite an active treaty, to then have your ally e-lawyer his way out of defending its ally by striking offensively elsewhere and citing an obscure clause. 

 

I didn't question BK-Syndicate relations. I am merely making the point that attacking an ally of an ally, is not inherently wrong when you are confident that you have good reason to. If you read my posts in context, you would of understood that. i used the example of BK being a mutual ally of the two, and you going after us. Without any provocation whatsoever. So the intention was to get your guy to stop spewing that morality BS about how wrong it is to go after an ally of an ally. There's a limited amount of alliances in this game, and that's going to happen.

 

Just because you claim it's a false premise, doesn't automatically make it so. What else can we expect you to say? 

 

SK is not our concern, and we have always made that clear. And DEIC aren't the puppets you assume them to be. They have their own government, and are big enough to make these decisions for themselves. So no, we didn't place our allies in an awkward position.

 

I am going to assume that you are referring to the tS treaty with SK. Yes, that was a public move. We signed a treaty.

 

Does that equate looking to roll you? Nah.

 

I never said the SK-tS treaty did equate to you looking to roll us. However it is you further consolidating an existing sphere, with alliances that not only traditionally have disliked/made malicious moves towards us, but also have made it clear they aren't necessarily the biggest fans of ours in the present too. So that's one of the moves, amongst other things, that made us take action. I'm not able to reveal the more juicy parts to this right now, but all in due time...

[TellUrGrlThx]

I don't remember planning to roll rose right when the treaty was signed. Honestly I don't know who actually does that so abruptly.

 

And for the record I don't think you had a valid reason to attack tS. I'm pretty convinced you guys listened to VE too much and just destroyed your FA with half of the alliances in the game for the next foreseeable future. I hope it was worth it.

[Kevin D]

I don't remember planning to roll rose right when the treaty was signed. Honestly I don't know who actually does that so abruptly.

 

Alzheimer's?

because you guys literally hit Vanguard right after the treaty

Edited October 17, 2015 by Finest

[Max Wells]

Lets go UPN!

[Kevin D]

Lets go UPN!

this guy knows what's up

Virtual high-5!

[Pangui]

I don't remember planning to roll rose right when the treaty was signed. Honestly I don't know who actually does that so abruptly.

 

And for the record I don't think you had a valid reason to attack tS. I'm pretty convinced you guys listened to VE too much and just destroyed your FA with half of the alliances in the game for the next foreseeable future. I hope it was worth it.

 

I have faith that the Mensa government is strong enough on its own that it makes it owns decision, this would be similar to me implying that you helped take out Paragon in the last war because The Syndicate told you. The Syndicate was a threat to UPN and TC while it was with Paragon, it's part of the game but that war never happened.. After the Syndicate left Paragon, we still marked them as an alliance that is our rival, one that will undermine us, and eventually amass enough power to make a run at us. We hold the power, we decided to take advantage. UPN doesn't need VE to tell us who and who are not our enemies. I think you'll find that an enemy of my enemy is my friend, which makes signing with VE logical, as well as the already existing friendships between the two governments. 

 

 

As for FA, the war is not over yet. If t$ sphere of influence falls, then we need something else to come take that place. If we fall, then Paragon and The Syndicate might start glaring at each other again, if another entity doesn't fill the vacuum of power, to early to tell. However I don't think that many consider The Syndicate innocent or undeserving of this. This is not a war against a neutral, or a 10 member AA.

 

All three alliances that UPN targeted are extremely capable and proven fighters. We didn't pick an easy target in TKR hoping for The Syndicate to hit us. 

[Wayne]

All three alliances that UPN targeted are extremely capable and proven fighters. We didn't pick an easy target in TKR hoping for The Syndicate to hit us. 

 

No, instead you ally up to the 2nd largest alliance in the game.  With UPN's numbers and its organisation, it didn't need another 100 guys looming in the background.  You should have had more faith.

[Valakias]

What is shameless here is how you lied to Mensa, how you lied to us, guaranteeing you were backing down, how you probably put Deic in an akward position, how you listened to the snake Impero is, probably knowing he is one. 
 

I enjoy a good fight no matter the odds, so props to you, for having the courage to strike. You attacked us at our weakest, and we'll fight tooth and nail.

[Charles Bolivar]

They said that before and after the leaks. To give some more context, VE-UPN were close to signing at one point, but it fell through mainly due to my inactivity at the time, and Impero feeling like he cannot sit on his hands and having to act. So they teamed up with tS/Rose to form Paragon. The next time we had a chat after my short hiatus, it was very clear that the dynamics of the conversation had changed and VE were clear of their newfound allegiance. However whilst we both accepted that we may eventually clash heads in the future, VE gave us guarantees that it would not be on offensive/unprovoked grounds anytime soon.

 

Lemme get this straight, UPN were close to signing with VE prior to paragon, then when VE were in Paragon they were proactively planning to attack UPN? And you think this is logical to then turn around and then blame the syndicate entirely with no responsibility at all to be placed upon VE?. No offence to partisan but do you think impero is the sort of person to be influenced to that extent with no thoughts of his own on a particular matter?Course not, impero is a proud, stubborn and intelligent person. It is only logical to assume Impero had a large hand in the planning of the aforementioned plan.

 

Just man up and say hey, realpolitik dictates we remove a credible threat. Don't insult us or yourself for that matter with this nonsense justification you have going in. It's pathetic.

 

Forgive grammar and so on. On mobile.

Edited October 17, 2015 by Charles the Tyrant

[Pangui]

No, instead you ally up to the 2nd largest alliance in the game.  With UPN's numbers and its organisation, it didn't need another 100 guys looming in the background.  You should have had more faith.

 Once again, an enemy of an enemy is my friend, and we already liked VE before this. I literally wrote that in my other post. 

 

If we didn't have faith in ourselves I don't think we would be declaring an aggressive war on some of the best fighting alliances in the game. 

[Wayne]

 Once again, an enemy of an enemy is my friend, and we already liked VE before this. I literally wrote that in my other post. 

 

If we didn't have faith in ourselves I don't think we would be declaring an aggressive war on some of the best fighting alliances in the game. 

 

300 vs 100.  Even the greatest fighters in PnW would have trouble with them numbers.  Getting VE to stand in the background flexing, was a bit overkill.

[Charles Bolivar]

Something that the Syndicate have done themselves in the past. So atleast stay consistent when applying some sort of moral judgement.

 

Now I judge every situation on a case by case basis, and don't think attacking an ally of an ally is inherently wrong. Provided there is valid reasoning behind it. Now we can argue about whether you agree with the validity or that reasoning. But putting it down to "you attacked an ally of an ally so you are bad" is a lazy troll attempt, particularly when you have done the same.

Please provide the name of our ally's ally that we attacked.

 

Cheers

[Pangui]

300 vs 100.  Even the greatest fighters in PnW would have trouble with them numbers.  Getting VE to stand in the background flexing, was a bit overkill.

I don't know the exact numbers, but BoC and UPN have large amounts of members outside the range of most SK or TEsT nations. The war will also probably expand, it would be pretty naive not to expect counters. 

[Wayne]

I don't know the exact numbers, but BoC and UPN have large amounts of members outside the range of most SK or TEsT nations. The war will also probably expand, it would be pretty naive not to expect counters. 

 

Of course it will expand.  People love a good dogpile in this game, it's partly the reason you signed with VE.

[Vincent]

And people loved to complain in the forums about how unfair or unjustified it is to declare war on them.

 

Oh come on stop pretending you have a high morale ground when you actually lost your morale when you plotted to attack others behind their back

[Vincent]

I mean moral ground.

[Lu Xun]

I like how much bullshit certain people are spouting on this thread, it's quite entertaining to watch them spin away their own misdeeds.

 

That said, you can whine, you can !@#$, but the score ratio, if BK gets involved and Alpha stays out, is going to be roughly 495 vs 314. Almost the 2-to-1 needed for an initial smackdown, and I'm hoping that tC and Paragon are talking to their allies about securing at least their neutrality.

[Ibrahim (Banned)]

Funny how each side is fully convinced they can talk the other down or convince them of how morally justified they are in the actions they have taken, by going over the same lines again and again, as though they have been making progress every time they went over them.

 

I have regrettably memorised each of your positions by now and it has not changed despite how long you have been arguing. In this game nothing has to be strictly justified and all this talk for the sake of point scoring, trying to gain a non-existent moral high ground, and a few brownie points makes for rather dull reading. Stick to shit-posting, trolling, and other more enjoyable postings while you tear each in to tiny little pieces. Thank you.

[Boony]

Funny how each side is fully convinced they can talk the other down or convince them of how morally justified they are in the actions they have taken, by going over the same lines again and again, as though they have been making progress every time they went over them.

 

I have regrettably memorised each of your positions by now and it has not changed despite how long you have been arguing. In this game nothing has to be strictly justified and all this talk for the sake of point scoring, trying to gain a non-existent moral high ground, and a few brownie points makes for rather dull reading. Stick to shit-posting, trolling, and other more enjoyable postings while you tear each in to tiny little pieces. Thank you.

I think the general point here is that TC only cares about TC. They signed all these outside treaties to keep themselves safe, and found the perfect opportunity to attack everyone and break treaties, while having VE in their back pocket.

 

I mean good job to them. They !@#$ed them selves.

[Tali]

I think the general point here is that TC only cares about TC. They signed all these outside treaties to keep themselves safe, and found the perfect opportunity to attack everyone and break treaties, while having VE in their back pocket.

 

I mean good job to them. They !@#$ed them selves.

I couldn't have worded that better.

[Fistandantilus]

The way I see it, is that The Covenant attacked allies and TS never has. UPN is trying to do thir best to obfuscate that for self interested FA reasons =/ I dont think the trick is working very well though

Edited October 17, 2015 by Fistandantilus

[Beowulf the Second]

Ohhhhh I finally got it- Saru thinks that t$ was amassing its power and consolidating its allies so that it could overthrow UPN! That's funny, I hadn't considered that... take it from me or not, I just kinda wanted to see the balance between three spheres of power because it's actually interesting, not because I especially care so much about UPN and want them to die haha.

The conventional way three party systems work is that when one of the parties gets too powerful, the other two unite to keep the other down. I think a big part of this disagreement stems from that it looks like the two stronger sides united together to kick the smaller one out (and make political life boring again).

[Ibrahim (Banned)]

Here we go again.