[Sphere] Fate Lies in the Stars

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

19 minutes ago, WarriorSoul said:

How can you even make this assessment when BW just gave up a couple days into the fighting? If anything, it represents a gap in fortitude, not a gap in strength.

Except this isn't an argument in bad faith. Like six months ago Rose and t$ got together for the express purpose of rolling HW. Obviously in games like these, narratives shift and relationships change quickly, but it's not like we're talking about ancient history, we're talking about something these alliances just did. Waving this off as a bad faith argument because "no trust us, Wana said he doesn't care about G/G anymore despite the historical stance of t$ over the last X number of years!" seems awfully naive to me.

As I said, I understand the response, but like I said, the response is not taking certain things into consideration, the first and foremost of which was the purpose behind that rolling. If we are looking at the history of this game, the reason behind Brawylood or whatever it was called was NOT to try to break up Hollywood, or break up Grumpy and Guardian, or because we hate GG. The purpose of that was, and this was made clear at the time, the fact that Grumpy and Guardian had not been rolled and had their growth interrupted since NPO's Last Time, which ended February 20, 2020.

The wars after that were the Ten Day War, which saw Hedge Money and Swamp both absolutely obliterate a much smaller opponent in tCW-Sphere. Hedge obliterated tCW, and quickly peaced out before it took damage. That was the style of war GG has historically enjoyed, a quick and easy war where they accomplish their goals quickly and peace out before they take much damage, because GG has always had one of the hardest, if not the hardest punches in a war. When GG blitzes you, you get obliterated in the first round, and it takes multiple rounds after that to try to really damage them, because you need to get control of lower levels before up-declaring on them.

The war after that was Duck Hunt, which I know you remember. Everyone took damage there, but GG didn't take as much as others, again due to the fact that it's hard to up-declare on them when you're being beaten on.

The war after that was Guns And Roses, which I again know you remember, and again, GG didn't take much damage for the same reasons I've laid out.

It was only after THAT, that Brawlywood occurred, a full five globals after NPO's Last Time, on Aug 17, 2021. That was a full NINETEEN MONTHS after NPO's Last Time, and over that stretch of time every single sphere was rolled at least once, except for GG. Brawylood occurred to interrupt the longest stretch of growth any one group has had in this war. To point to an extremely specific and abnormal situation, and say "This is why we are cautious" is just not based in reality. You said it yourself, Brawlywood was six months ago. That's certainly longer than most blocs get to grow freely, but it's less than a third of the length of time that prompted Brawlywood. Let's be reasonable here, WS.

[BigMorf]

1 hour ago, Gaius Julius Caesar said:

I believe WANA has made it abundantly clear that this move is not about Grumpy. He has said multiple times in this exact thread that this has nothing to do with Grumpy, and that his position towards Grumpy has not changed and that he does not desire more wars with Grumpy. I understand that any moves instantly have to be considered in the framework of how it affects you as a sphere, but you've been told repeatedly, by multiple members of high govs from both Rose and T$ that this is not about attacking Grumpy or Hollywood, this is not about starting a new war, this is not us being aggressive. WANA said it himself, this was a move to respond to the growth of other spheres and to remain competitive, but if you look at people growing stronger to remain competitive as a threat and a direct challenge to you, then I am sorry for that. There's nothing more that can be said than what is already said, we are not interested in more wars with Grumpy, that's a horse that's been beaten to death. 

 

Blackwater had remained relatively consistent since the end of Quack. The Syndicate, House Stark, Order Of The White Rose, Carthago and Eclipse started off. Eclipse, the second largest member of Blackwater, left to form Clock and so Blackwater was greatly weakened. Other allies were added, such as The Legion, Divine Phoenix Empire, and others, but as we saw in the most recent war, there was a large gap in strength between Blackwater and Hollywood, and a believed gap in strength between Blackwater and Clock. Rose and other members of Mile High Club saw a sizable difference in their strength and the strength of Clock and Hollywood, and so when two blocs both share a belief that there is a gap between them and other blocs, it's natural that they would work together to grow stronger. This is not some formation of Quack 2.0, this is not some conjoining of highly aggressive and belligerent alliances.

 

I've said on your own show, Morf, we've spoken about this on multiple occasions, there is an issue with a lack of quality alliances in the game. Strong alliances with quality members are hard to come by, if blocs want to grow in strength, this is the sort of thing that needs to be done. TKR did it when Quack was no longer viable, TKR and BK went and joined Hedge Money and formed Hollywood. What would you have had Blackwater and Mile High Club do, with their belief that they needed to make moves to stay competitive? Just said "No, you guys are fine, sign small alliances and don't make major moves" or something along those lines? That's just not viable in the game today, you know that all too well.

 

Like I understand the response and belief of every sphere that this move is directly because of them and this is a sign that Rose and T$ are going to attack them because everyone knows Rose and T$ have been such aggressive and hostile alliances in the past, but that's just not the case. We can address this as reasonable people with logic, but you saying this means T$ wants to attack Grumpy and Guardian and force them to split up because T$ and Rose and our allies joined to remain competitive is just an argument in bad faith, and I honestly expected better from you.

The problem is ya’ll are contradicting yourself at every turn you get the chance. Wana has stressed to me that is not an aggressive move against Hollywood, and i tend to take what WANA says at face value. He’s always been a straight shooter with me which I do appreciate.

But again, WANA’s narrative here and many other movers and shakers in Ro$e sure seem to be contradicting one another.

You say this is not about Grumpy and yet every argument against the massive consolidation of the c30 tier that you have made is rebutted by pointing to Grumpy and it’s control of the c40‘s. But yet… it’s not about Grumpy??

I do agree with the lack of quality alliances in the game; but there were moves available for you to make that didn’t include the tying together of the two biggest alliances outside of TKR that tend to move and shake politics for better or for worse (CATA has come on strong in this regard.)

I get that you all feel that this was the best course of action for you all even if I disagree with it. But i do believe that this is a dangerous move that has started a dangerous slide back in the direction of bipolarity. Maybe Tripolaity if Clock decides they want to expand, but they’ll likely have to now in a drastic way in order to compete. 

EDIT: 

Nowhere did I say ya’ll were wanting to roll us btw so you can drop the whole “i expected betterof you” shtick anytime now. 

Edited March 13, 2022 by BigMorf

[Firwof Kromwell]

Just now, BigMorf said:

The problem is ya’ll are contradicting yourself at every turn you get the chance. Wana has stressed to me that is not an aggressive move against Hollywood, and i tend to take what WANA says at face value. He’s always been a straight shooter with me which I do appreciate.

But again, WANA’s narrative here and many other movers and shakers in Ro$e sure seem to be contradicting one another.

You say this is not about Grumpy and yet every argument against the massive consolidation of the c30 tier that you have made is rebutted by pointing to Grumpy and it’s control of the c40‘s. But yet… it’s not about Grumpy??

I do agree with the lack of quality alliances in the game; but there were moves available for you to make that didn’t include the tying together of the two biggest alliances outside of TKR that tend to move and shake politics for better or for worse (CATA has come on strong in this regard.)

I get that you all feel that this was the best course of action for you all even if I disagree with it. But i do believe that this is a dangerous move that has started a dangerous slide back in the direction of bipolarity. Maybe Tripolaity if Clock decides they want to expand, but they’ll likely have to now in a drastic way in order to compete. 

 

I got a great song for this debate here between HW n Clock against Ro$e

 

 

[Vanek26]

8 hours ago, Prefonteen said:

I remarked in RON earlier that a return to a political state where alliances are central, rather than blocs, would do us all well. Perhaps one day, an old snake can dream.

When was this?

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

39 minutes ago, BigMorf said:

The problem is ya’ll are contradicting yourself at every turn you get the chance. Wana has stressed to me that is not an aggressive move against Hollywood, and i tend to take what WANA says at face value. He’s always been a straight shooter with me which I do appreciate.

But again, WANA’s narrative here and many other movers and shakers in Ro$e sure seem to be contradicting one another.

You say this is not about Grumpy and yet every argument against the massive consolidation of the c30 tier that you have made is rebutted by pointing to Grumpy and it’s control of the c40‘s. But yet… it’s not about Grumpy??

I do agree with the lack of quality alliances in the game; but there were moves available for you to make that didn’t include the tying together of the two biggest alliances outside of TKR that tend to move and shake politics for better or for worse (CATA has come on strong in this regard.)

I get that you all feel that this was the best course of action for you all even if I disagree with it. But i do believe that this is a dangerous move that has started a dangerous slide back in the direction of bipolarity. Maybe Tripolaity if Clock decides they want to expand, but they’ll likely have to now in a drastic way in order to compete. 

EDIT: 

Nowhere did I say ya’ll were wanting to roll us btw so you can drop the whole “i expected betterof you” shtick anytime now. 

The idea of saying that what we are doing isn't unprecedented, and isn't unrivaled, due to it happening in other spheres, isn't the equivalent of saying we're doing this because of those other groups. I have not seen every instance of people equivalating our presence in the 30's with Hollywood's presence in the 40's, but I've seen a few and the ones I've seen have spoken of it being a matter of where people put the emphasis in their sphere.

As for the idea of this being a dangerous move, and you disagreeing with it, despite understanding it, Is this not very similar to what happened between Hollywood and the Immortals? Hollywood saw an issue with its tiering and noticed that in wars it often suffered in the lower tier. To address that, it signed the immortals, and I believe it was you yourself, or at least someone from TKR on the show That pushed back against the idea that it was bad for the game. People made plenty of comments when Hollywood signed the immortals, saying other blocks would need to make drastic moves to be able to compete, because Hollywood now had a very large and competent lower tier, a very competent middle tier with TKR, BK and others, and the largest upper tier with Guardian and Grumpy. It wasn't the interest of Hollywood to ensure bipolarity at that time, it was the interest of Hollywood to do what was in its own best interest, despite the fact that it was acknowledged that it made fighting Hollywood much more difficult for other spheres. People who defended that move now being judgemental of the moves of another sphere, saying it's bad for the game seems awfully two faced and hypocritical, and that is what I meant when I said I expected better from you. It seems like the argument is that things are permissible for your sphere, but you judge it when it's others spheres.

[BigMorf]

31 minutes ago, Gaius Julius Caesar said:

The idea of saying that what we are doing isn't unprecedented, and isn't unrivaled, due to it happening in other spheres, isn't the equivalent of saying we're doing this because of those other groups. I have not seen every instance of people equivalating our presence in the 30's with Hollywood's presence in the 40's, but I've seen a few and the ones I've seen have spoken of it being a matter of where people put the emphasis in their sphere.

As for the idea of this being a dangerous move, and you disagreeing with it, despite understanding it, Is this not very similar to what happened between Hollywood and the Immortals? Hollywood saw an issue with its tiering and noticed that in wars it often suffered in the lower tier. To address that, it signed the immortals, and I believe it was you yourself, or at least someone from TKR on the show That pushed back against the idea that it was bad for the game. People made plenty of comments when Hollywood signed the immortals, saying other blocks would need to make drastic moves to be able to compete, because Hollywood now had a very large and competent lower tier, a very competent middle tier with TKR, BK and others, and the largest upper tier with Guardian and Grumpy. It wasn't the interest of Hollywood to ensure bipolarity at that time, it was the interest of Hollywood to do what was in its own best interest, despite the fact that it was acknowledged that it made fighting Hollywood much more difficult for other spheres. People who defended that move now being judgemental of the moves of another sphere, saying it's bad for the game seems awfully two faced and hypocritical, and that is what I meant when I said I expected better from you. It seems like the argument is that things are permissible for your sphere, but you judge it when it's others spheres.

No offense to Immortals, whom I have a ton of respect for and am quite fond of. But the idea of us signing Immortals as comparable to you signing Rose is just hilarious. 

The Immortals are high quality folks, I agree. But they are still a relatively new alliance (happy two years to the homies) who have been relatively passive in politics compared to Rose who is the largest alliance in the game and is a mover and shaker. This is like comparing apples to oranges. 

But again, even when we signed Immortals. Where the hell was this narrative that you guys are pushing now? You all had plenty of time to come and chat with us to share your concerns, to speak out about how you really felt about Grumpy etc.

 

Instead you continued to tell us that you didn’t have a concern about Grumpy anymore, that you didn’t think they were crushing the game. All of your rhetoric on the topic died until you needed to dust it off to justify this particular consolidation of political power and influence. 

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

4 minutes ago, BigMorf said:

No offense to Immortals, whom I have a ton of respect for and am quite fond of. But the idea of us signing Immortals as comparable to you signing Rose is just hilarious. 

The Immortals are high quality folks, I agree. But they are still a relatively new alliance (happy two years to the homies) who have been relatively passive in politics compared to Rose who is the largest alliance in the game and is a mover and shaker. This is like comparing apples to oranges. 

But again, even when we signed Immortals. Where the hell was this narrative that you guys are pushing now? You all had plenty of time to come and chat with us to share your concerns, to speak out about how you really felt about Grumpy etc.

 

Instead you continued to tell us that you didn’t have a concern about Grumpy anymore, that you didn’t think they were crushing the game. All of your rhetoric on the topic died until you needed to dust it off to justify this particular consolidation of political power and influence. 

Like.... Like I just said, Morf, the issue T$ had with Grumpy was that they had gone a long time without being rolled, and we thought that was an issue. We don't have any personal issues with Grumpy, the only people who are saying we do is Hollywood. There are plenty of people in grumpy who were members of the syndicate, or church of Spaceology, or Veridian Expanse or alliances such as that. We have made it clear how we really feel about Grumpy, time and time and time and time again. I don't know what else to tell you, mate.

 

As for the Rose and The Immortals thing, There are a number of issues with that. First of all, since when has literally anyone ever use the age of an alliance to determine how strong is it? By that logic, Clock must be just not even on your radar, since Hand Of Fate, Eclipse, Terminus Est, and Cataclysm were all made in 2020 or 2021, and are even younger than TI. Disregarding the very strange argument that their age has anything to do with the importance of them being signed by you, I appreciate the fact that you entirely disregarded my point. The issue people took with you signing the immortals was the fact that traditionally, as you yourself said on your show, the issue that Hollywood had was that it's lower tier was weak, and often took a beating in an attack. To combat that, you signed literally the largest low/ middle tier alliance in the game, to ensure that you didn't have a weakness at any size.

As for where this narrative was, I was on the show the night we talked about it, I mentioned the fact that I had concerns about it, that I wouldn't have done it, and that I thought it was dangerous, but I said that Hollywood was going to do what was in its best interest, not the interest of anyone besides Hollywood. That was my stance, on your own very show.

Disregarding that, that still doesn't address my point. Hollywood had no issue with it signing the immortals to ensure that it had no weaknesses, it was not concerned about the balance of the game. Why is it now so concerned about the balance of the game The Syndicate and Rose sign together? Because, when Hollywood was doing that, it was making sure you were strong and could not be rivaled by anyone. Now, you seem concerned by the fact that someone has made another strong block, and you immediately start talking about how it's bad for the game.

Furthermore, you still haven't answered my question. You say you think it's bad for the game, but you are refusing to answer me, what would you have done instead? If the situation was reversed, and TKR found itself in a block that was not strong enough to compete at the top tier, at least in terms of alliances not in terms of nation size, what would it have done? I seem to a call that happening after duck hunt, and I seem to recall TKR taking BK, and joining hedge money, forming the largest, and strongest bloc in the game. Maybe my memory is foggy though.

[Prefonteen]

1 hour ago, Vanek26 said:

When was this?

2015 - 2017 or so.

18 minutes ago, BigMorf said:

No offense to Immortals, whom I have a ton of respect for and am quite fond of. But the idea of us signing Immortals as comparable to you signing Rose is just hilarious. 

The Immortals are high quality folks, I agree. But they are still a relatively new alliance (happy two years to the homies) who have been relatively passive in politics compared to Rose who is the largest alliance in the game and is a mover and shaker. This is like comparing apples to oranges. 

But again, even when we signed Immortals. Where the hell was this narrative that you guys are pushing now? You all had plenty of time to come and chat with us to share your concerns, to speak out about how you really felt about Grumpy etc.

 

Instead you continued to tell us that you didn’t have a concern about Grumpy anymore, that you didn’t think they were crushing the game. All of your rhetoric on the topic died until you needed to dust it off to justify this particular consolidation of political power and influence. 

Uhhuh what.

Immortals has been majorly involved in politics since npolt, forming several spheres and being involved in several major wars.

Come on man. Bring @Adrienneback. This is just embarrassingly poor. 

 

8 hours ago, Etat said:

Please might you explain what HW move you are disappointed with?   Is it simply that Grumpy are a member?  Basically any sphere Grumpy signs up to will attract the 'upper tier consolidation' argument, and I do not think there is anything that can, or should done about it.

Anyway IMO the tiering presently is neither here nor there, though we've lost the upper hand in the most versatile and powerful tier(s), it doesn't appear excessively problematic given the number of variables that may influence their relative power in war.  As for the 40+ tier, I'll maintain it is a pointless thing to get excited about militarily.  If we scrap again it'll be an interesting one because we won't de-mil and bail out.

If we have a larger number of active nations than say a couple of years ago, I think the development of blocs would be a natural evolution.  Hypothetically I also like the idea of a return to the precedence of alliances (not a thing I've seen), kind of like the multi-polar micro-sphere thing.  I think though this amounts to swimming against the tide of human nature.

My views on grump and tkr tiering are no secret. As keyogg they were already an issue. With the it's a whole other beast.

 

Agreed wrt the rest

7 hours ago, His Holy Decagon said:

To be fair, this is another narrative I’ve been seeing, that I sort of chuckle at. Clock isn’t upset at all, nor are we frustrated. Not directed at you, Pre, but giving criticism, former examples, other ideas, isn’t some form of toxicity, at all.

It’s just as simple as we had four major blocs, and losing one of them, any of them, isn’t what I personally think anyone wanted. Yeah, sure, “GG/TKR/TI”, but, I’d rebuttal with “Do two wrongs make a right?” Obviously not, and I’d be as humble to say that no one has to follow the logic and narrative that others hold to heart.

Good luck, Celestial, hopefully the alliances you’ve recently signed and cut, hold the same value in these moves that you do. And hopefully the issues that Shiho addressed (nice reply, if I’m honest) are somehow addressed with this route (adding more numbers), instead of working on the things that actually improve fighting

I don't see toxicity

[Adrienne]

14 minutes ago, Prefonteen said:

Come on man. Bring @Adrienneback. This is just embarrassingly poor. 

I don't know how you can say that when you look at the posts the man has to respond to. Something something remove the log from your own eye first....

[Who Me]

6 hours ago, BigMorf said:

You could've been honest with us about how you really felt about the tiering etc, but it's clear to me now that you were saying one thing externally while having an entire different stance internally on both accounts. 

Tsk, you should know by now that WANA doesn't speak the truth.

5 hours ago, Gaius Julius Caesar said:

I believe WANA has made it abundantly clear that this move is not about Grumpy. He has said multiple times in this exact thread that this has nothing to do with Grumpy, and that his position towards Grumpy has not changed and that he does not desire more wars with Grumpy.

Tarroc, Tarroc, Tarroc

1) see above

2) the reason this treaty happened is because TS and Rose both have lazy and crappy leadership.

I guess we will just have to wait and see whether or not you folks are being truthful this time.

 

[Keza Purple]

Paragon 2.0 

[Zei-Sakura Alsainn]

8 hours ago, Arawra said:

wow ur still upset people didn't listen to you 😢

Actually the problem was more that everyone did listen to him, but he wanted them to do the thing that resulted in a wipeout faster than syndi sold military even harder next time.

 

Mad cause bad.

[SleepingNinja]

5 hours ago, BigMorf said:

No offense to Immortals, whom I have a ton of respect for and am quite fond of. But the idea of us signing Immortals as comparable to you signing Rose is just hilarious. 

The Immortals are high quality folks, I agree. But they are still a relatively new alliance (happy two years to the homies) who have been relatively passive in politics compared to Rose who is the largest alliance in the game and is a mover and shaker. This is like comparing apples to oranges. 

But again, even when we signed Immortals. Where the hell was this narrative that you guys are pushing now? You all had plenty of time to come and chat with us to share your concerns, to speak out about how you really felt about Grumpy etc.

 

Instead you continued to tell us that you didn’t have a concern about Grumpy anymore, that you didn’t think they were crushing the game. All of your rhetoric on the topic died until you needed to dust it off to justify this particular consolidation of political power and influence. 

That's a lot of words for what essentially boils down to "mommy, the big bad alliances that were smaller than me are teaming up and now I don't have clear advantages in the tiering in which I want! wah wah wah!" Sounds ironically similar to a certain line I've heard before. Sorry Morf. 😂

[Dr James Wilson]

22 hours ago, Agent W said:

What I’d argue is more hypocritical is this. Your alliance leader defending Rose against HW because of your own accusations of them being a hegemony then deciding to join that same grouping after a catastrophic misreading of reality. 

Surely you aren't referring to the war where you declared on us for signing an odp with a seperate, very small bloc after going back on your own word.   Because comparing that to the #1 and #2 AAs in the game signing each other and holding on to the best AAs of their respective former spheres is really not in the same league and I think its a laughable comparison.   You've just done what you previously attacked us for doing except its much more egregious but because you did it, it's justifiable.  Hypocrite.

Your words mean absolutely nothing when your actions are taken into account.

[Sweeeeet Ronny D]

You guys still talking about us?  Guys we are here to celebrate the joining of the largest and probably 4th largest alliance in the game putting their vast historical differences aside and coming together in friendship.  This is a momentous occasion.

So lets stop talking about the ole Grump, I get it, we are awesome, I love talking about us too.  But lets focus in on these two crazy kids taking a swing and trying to make it work.

I'm pulling for ya!

[Prefonteen]

9 hours ago, Adrienne said:

I don't know how you can say that when you look at the posts the man has to respond to. Something something remove the log from your own eye first....

I'm not responsible for the average iq on these forums. But when I see:

 

-morf claiming to wasn't a major political player. 

- morph claiming tS never talked to you about our feelings about your grumpy pairing and its implications for the game 

I just can't help but think your fa has devolved into outright lying, or you have replaced your fa with a bloody barstool. Or both. A lying bloody barstool.

Ri, we can do better friend.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said:

You guys still talking about us?  Guys we are here to celebrate the joining of the largest and probably 4th largest alliance in the game putting their vast historical differences aside and coming together in friendship.  This is a momentous occasion.

So lets stop talking about the ole Grump, I get it, we are awesome, I love talking about us too.  But lets focus in on these two crazy kids taking a swing and trying to make it work.

I'm pulling for ya!

Rose is my friend. Rose was always my friend.

[Adrienne]

1 hour ago, Prefonteen said:

I'm not responsible for the average iq on these forums. But when I see:

 

-morf claiming to wasn't a major political player. 

- morph claiming tS never talked to you about our feelings about your grumpy pairing and its implications for the game 

I just can't help but think your fa has devolved into outright lying, or you have replaced your fa with a bloody barstool. Or both. A lying bloody barstool.

Ri, we can do better friend.

I think you need to take a look at those posts again, friend.

Morf can expand on his first point himself if he so desires.

In regards to the second, he wasn't referring to Grumpy. Y'all splattered that over every conceivable platform you could post split. He was referring to TI.

I just can't help but think the greater issue is that either you can't read or you are willfully misunderstanding things. Or both. An illiterate person who willfully misunderstands things. 

Parti, we can do better, friend. 😘

Edited March 14, 2022 by Adrienne

[KingGhost]

Why are people so mad about this lmao.

i have not seen the numbers on papers this balanced in a tri/quad polarity in a long time. IMO Clock should just eat some of the other alliances that aren’t in a major sphere yet, a lil bit of Farkistan and Carthago etc, get meat on their bones.

(Actually though, Clock was already not on par with HW 1 on 1 so a “Tripolarity” is already hard to achieve if they don’t expand since HW and R$ is fairly balanced on paper even c30+ with h2h in c30+ region HW having 47% (With a higher weight in tiering as they have a high c40 region) and R$ having 53% of c30+ when compared head to head.

thats 117 r$ vs 103 HW c30+.

Everything below c30+ is honestly really balanced perfectly for all 3 spheres.

A pretty perfect Tripolarity in terms of strength is on the horizon but it is much easier for clock to raise its strength a little bit more than for a quadpolarity to come about, especially since it’s not reasonable for HW to lower their strength to clocks in the c35+ Tier unless they start actually kicking members out of the main respective sphere alliances. There’s also not enough people in the game for Clock to upsize to HW in the c35+ tier and for two more spheres to come.

On 3/12/2022 at 3:39 PM, Pascal said:

Yes, yes. Because 2 spheres holding 65-70% of the c30s+ in the game is not bipolarity.

Also wtf does this even mean. In a absolutely perfect Tripolarity with all nations participating in each sphere would hold roughly 33% of the power in each tier, two spheres holding 65-70% falls in that range, not to mention you can’t expect it to be a perfect 66.6% power distribution when you combine two spheres, 65-70% is pretty damn close.

Of course this circles back to Clock being the problem for simply being too small as I said, also, the two spheres actually have more around 50-55% of the total c30s+, it’s up to clock to gather up like 25% of the total c30-40 and you will be on par and it will be the easiest way and closest Orbis will get to achieving a tripolarity.

 

Edited March 14, 2022 by KingGhost

[Etat]

31 minutes ago, KingGhost said:

Why are people so mad about this lmao...

Not mad my friend, but quite reasonably interested and concerned about where this development will take us all.

Also comparing this t$/Rose thing with anything TKR has done is IMO a flawed approach.  TKR doesn't throw a tantrum and refuse to play on equal terms.  TKR doesn't opportunistically hit opponents already heavily engaged in a global with no CB.  TKR doesn't hold on to Orbis damaging personal grudges against alliances of <40 members who can't reach the majority of players.  TKR doesn't generate massive responses to appeals such as HC's post.  The difference between us my friend is not our actions in and of themselves, but in the driving forces behind them.  You are most certainly blind to our differences.

This is not a personal attack mind; I am certain you are all wonderful individuals, but collectively you guys are like a 6'4" toddler who thinks they're in charge of the game.

[KingGhost]

2 minutes ago, Etat said:

lots Of text.

What? Is that a reply to me? 
 

if so did you even read what I posted. Why are you going off about political moves when my post was geared towards military strength levels for the tripolarity.

 

The only thing I compared ro$e and tkr with in my post was there c30+ numbers and now I am being met with does condescending talk of how TKR is the virtue of righteousness of which multiple of the points are just false. I can immediately think of DDR which would prove at least two of your points false and I do not involve myself in FA shenanigans but even I know pretty much every alliance has their own dirty past.

So uh, tone down the ego because almost every major old alliance has completed the checklist for everything you listed, Jesus, rereading your post, it’s probably NSFW with how much you’re sucking your own alliance off. Then ending off a line of the equivalent of saying “no offense [insert something offensive]”

[Etat]

16 minutes ago, KingGhost said:

What? Is that a reply to me? 
 

Relax buddy, it is aimed at your whole sphere   And you are quite right, I should have replied to someone else, but between my dicky connection that likes to delete my transcendent remarks and my oh so deep little rabbit hole here, it was your ear that was bent.  @KingGhost Please accept my apologies.

And for the record, I also do not share much concern about the tiering, though it be no longer in our favour.  The numbers I've looked at indicates that by degrees it is now more in your favour than in was in ours previously, though not appearing horribly disparate on the whole.

Edited March 14, 2022 by Etat

[KingGhost]

apology accepted @Etat

Edited March 14, 2022 by KingGhost

[Prefonteen]

1 hour ago, Etat said:

Not mad my friend, but quite reasonably interested and concerned about where this development will take us all.

-------------- 
 

Also comparing this t$/Rose thing with anything TKR has done is IMO a flawed approach.

-------  "TKR good, t$ bad. Dont compare!" . This warrants no serious response.

1 hour ago, Etat said:

  TKR doesn't throw a tantrum and refuse to play on equal terms. 

----- TKR currently is not playing on equal terms. t$ has just made a move to equalize terms, and TKR is....throwing a tantrum.

1 hour ago, Etat said:

TKR doesn't opportunistically hit opponents already heavily engaged in a global with no CB. 

---- Ah yes, let's  bring NPOLT into this again. I didn't hear you about this when you allied us afterwards.

1 hour ago, Etat said:

TKR doesn't hold on to Orbis damaging personal grudges against alliances of <40 members who can't reach the majority of players. 

----- GOB is not a "personal grudge". GOB is a security concern. Ronny and I both acknowledged that state a long time ago. The difference is day and night. Ronny understands. Why don't you?

1 hour ago, Etat said:

TKR doesn't generate massive responses to appeals such as HC's post. 

When you come up with revisionist horseshit (pun intended) like this afterwards, you directly contribute to any hostility t$ may end up harboring.

t$ at the time responded by engaging various community members, taking criticism and reflecting on it. Some of it we took to heart and worked on changing. Other things, we didn't. You seem to gloss over the fact that that while a portion of the participants of that thread attempted to constructively critique, an equal portion engaged in shoddy OOC behavior while critiquing us, and/or simply used the opportunity to air political grievances that did not really belong in that thread.

I can guarantee you that a similar thread on any other major/controversial actor will generate similar levels of responses.

1 hour ago, Etat said:

The difference between us my friend is not our actions in and of themselves, but in the driving forces behind them.  You are most certainly blind to our differences.

The difference between us is smaller than you think. As one of Syndi's primary actors since its inception, I can safely state that you grossly misinterpret the Syndicate's driving forces. I know and understand TKR, probably better than you do. Frankly, this sort of rhetoric does not suit the core tenets upon which your alliance operates.

1 hour ago, Etat said:

This is not a personal attack mind; I am certain you are all wonderful individuals, but collectively you guys are like a 6'4" toddler who thinks they're in charge of the game.

Collectively, we are what you want to see. There is little more to it. When you are ready to have a grown up conversation which includes introspection on your part, I will be there to reciprocate. Until then, my pastime will remain haunting these forums.

Edited March 14, 2022 by Prefonteen

[Vemek]

2 hours ago, Etat said:

Not mad my friend, but quite reasonably interested and concerned about where this development will take us all.

Also comparing this t$/Rose thing with anything TKR has done is IMO a flawed approach.  TKR doesn't throw a tantrum and refuse to play on equal terms.  TKR doesn't opportunistically hit opponents already heavily engaged in a global with no CB.  TKR doesn't hold on to Orbis damaging personal grudges against alliances of <40 members who can't reach the majority of players.  TKR doesn't generate massive responses to appeals such as HC's post.  The difference between us my friend is not our actions in and of themselves, but in the driving forces behind them.  You are most certainly blind to our differences.

This is not a personal attack mind; I am certain you are all wonderful individuals, but collectively you guys are like a 6'4" toddler who thinks they're in charge of the game.

I'm unsure as to the point being made here. You are justifying a sphere containing TKR-GG-TI and simultaneously discrediting a rose-t$ tie on the basis of.... morality? Cool, you guys are spotless (lol) give yourselves a pat on the back.

The core complaint I have seen has hinged on tiering which has been discussed to death and the common consensus seems to be that HW and Ro$e are largely equal. The other complaint I've seen is the idea of ro$e having too many 'drivers' of politics in one sphere when both GG and TI are in your sphere. GG is already a major driver in politics and they could very well lead their own sphere to be a 'mover and shaker' to the same scale as t$, TKR, Rose, Cata etc if they so wished but instead choose not to do so.

Your entire point of 'syndi man bad' is irrelevant to either of those two issues being discussed and I don't even know what the first two things you're talking about are. 

Edited March 14, 2022 by Vemek

[Hodor]

I don't see what the big deal is? I've yet to see a comparison shot of BW, MHC, and Ro$e, but at least from what I can tell they've not expanded their reach, but chosen to focus it more on an area they've consistently felt they were outgunned in: the upper tier.

My main concern is, and always has been, t$' approach to Grumpy. I think that Etat sums it up here:

On 3/13/2022 at 8:02 AM, Etat said:

Is it simply that Grumpy are a member?  Basically any sphere Grumpy signs up to will attract the 'upper tier consolidation' argument, and I do not think there is anything that can, or should done about it.

If we look at this tiering:

HW has 49 nations in the C35+ tier, 30 of those are in Grumpy (10 in Guardian). Remove Grumpy from HW and they (HW) are no longer an upper tier threat, but adding Grumpy to either of the other sphere's then creates the same "consolidation." The only solution is that Grumpy take enormous risk in order to assuage these fears with little promise that undertaking this risk would do anything to remove the spotlight from them.

 

Lastly, at what ratio do we measure the downdeclare threat? I see a lot of talk about the 40+ tier being a critical arena. An 18 nation advantage in that tier (comparing HW and Ro$e) seems large, but a 19, 13, and 12 nation disadvantage in the 3 tiers below it seems to really negate that... It's really hard to get a grasp on what the actual impact of X number of X tier nations means, it seems to be largely personal intuition at the moment. I think the last war could've really shown this, but t$' decisions made it so that tier was uncontested after 1 day.