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丂ħ̧i̧₣ɫ̵γ͘ ̶™

If chaos drives, let suffering hold the wheel

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1 minute ago, 丂ħ̧i̧₣ɫ̵γ͘ ̶™ said:

I, for one, support guerrilla warfare.

 

The war should never end and only the most fanatical have the right to inherit the game.

It is time that grudges and grievances never heal. It's been 5 years to make nice, build multiple blocs, and get new leaders, the fact is there are only two sides.

 

If things had not gone the way they had, I would have used my increased infra to fund both sides. The victor should be the side without doubt that they will prevail.

 

Every war will only get longer from this. NPO has already started importing/aiding CN players and CN alliances.

The game will never return to as it was. It is the final struggle. 

Alex won't change the mechanics during this war, so this is it. The mechanics won't allow a true victor.

 

The next step is to see one side break as their will always be a greater and a lesser. 

From there, it is for the survivors to kill each other off. Let the eternal struggle for dominance continue. It does not matter what is lost in war.

coalition b is winning tho

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KERCHTOG made the same mistake IQ made in Trial of Tiers, in Trial of Tiers; IQ was attempting to win instead of merely run a defensive preempt.


If KERCHTOG had kept Rose in reserve, Rose could have been sent out against T$NPO when the secret treaty was invoked. That would have provided better performance against the 2 million C2.8 in T$ NPO and even if KERCHTOG had lost one of the fronts, it would have created much more diplomatic flexibility instead of this genocidal war.


KERCHTOG will deny that it was planning this war since Knightfall, but intelligence had this war tracked since Knightfall.  The only people who possibly didn't see this coming was T$. Even BK arguably knew what was going on and was adaptive while it was being rolled. The BK getting rolled was part of the plan.

 

In other words, the calculation came to:

 

Option 1: Attempt to win a revenge war.

Option 2: Attempting to maximize strategic potential by playing for the long game.

 

Option 1 failed, which meant that KERCHTOG had to fall back to Option 2, but in a far weaker position wherein strategic options were narrowed out.

Edited by Inst
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1 hour ago, Inst said:

KERCHTOG made the same mistake IQ made in Trial of Tiers, in Trial of Tiers; IQ was attempting to win instead of merely run a defensive preempt.


If KERCHTOG had kept Rose in reserve, Rose could have been sent out against T$NPO when the secret treaty was invoked. That would have provided better performance against the 2 million C2.8 in T$ NPO and even if KERCHTOG had lost one of the fronts, it would have created much more diplomatic flexibility instead of this genocidal war.


KERCHTOG will deny that it was planning this war since Knightfall, but intelligence had this war tracked since Knightfall.  The only people who possibly didn't see this coming was T$. Even BK arguably knew what was going on and was adaptive while it was being rolled. The BK getting rolled was part of the plan.

 

In other words, the calculation came to:

 

Option 1: Attempt to win a revenge war.

Option 2: Attempting to maximize strategic potential by playing for the long game.

 

Option 1 failed, which meant that KERCHTOG had to fall back to Option 2, but in a far weaker position wherein strategic options were narrowed out.

 

 

Edited by Prefonteen
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4 hours ago, Inst said:

KERCHTOG made the same mistake IQ made in Trial of Tiers, in Trial of Tiers; IQ was attempting to win instead of merely run a defensive preempt.


If KERCHTOG had kept Rose in reserve, Rose could have been sent out against T$NPO when the secret treaty was invoked. That would have provided better performance against the 2 million C2.8 in T$ NPO and even if KERCHTOG had lost one of the fronts, it would have created much more diplomatic flexibility instead of this genocidal war.


KERCHTOG will deny that it was planning this war since Knightfall, but intelligence had this war tracked since Knightfall.  The only people who possibly didn't see this coming was T$. Even BK arguably knew what was going on and was adaptive while it was being rolled. The BK getting rolled was part of the plan.

 

In other words, the calculation came to:

 

Option 1: Attempt to win a revenge war.

Option 2: Attempting to maximize strategic potential by playing for the long game.

 

Option 1 failed, which meant that KERCHTOG had to fall back to Option 2, but in a far weaker position wherein strategic options were narrowed out.

Your dumb post gave me arthritis.

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8 minutes ago, Cypher said:

Your dumb post gave me arthritis.

NPO complained that they should not have needed to bail BK out, when BK apparently sought to get itself rolled for the diplomatic repercussions. KERCHTOG elements admitted that throwing Rose in was overkill, and that basically ensured that NPO would have had to intervene.

 

Strategically, the end outcome is that KERCHTOG is committing itself to a rerolling.

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5 minutes ago, Inst said:

NPO complained that they should not have needed to bail BK out, when BK apparently sought to get itself rolled for the diplomatic repercussions. KERCHTOG elements admitted that throwing Rose in was overkill, and that basically ensured that NPO would have had to intervene.

 

Firstly your premise is wrong in trying to use a secret treaty argument. Secondly, throwing in Rose wasn't really the overkill. It was the consolidation of KERTCHOGG. 

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31 minutes ago, Shadowthrone said:

Firstly your premise is wrong in trying to use a secret treaty argument. Secondly, throwing in Rose wasn't really the overkill. It was the consolidation of KERTCHOGG. 

I thought Roq had publicly disclosed the secret treaty. As far as overkilling BK went, as someone who had observed the fight since the start of the war, if Rose hadn't entered against BK and was saved for T$NPO, there would have been no need for NPO to cross fronts and put T$ in a hard spot. BK would have been able to hold much better, with like 100-200k planes removed from KERCHTOG. Rose entering on T$NPO would have presented much better odds, although KERCHTOGG was crippled by Grumpy's refusal to do full-scale fighting.

Let me put it another way, if Rose hadn't entered vs BK and BK-sphere was holding up properly against KERCHTOG (or KECHTOG, in this case), would NPO have diverted from Guardian-Grumpy onto the general front?

 

===

 

The objective of war is not necessarily to win militarily, but to achieve strategic aims and present a better strategic environment for your side post-war. I mean I hear rumors about certain spheres post-war, and whether forcing its split was part of the objective, but I don't see it working out for KERCHTOG.

Edited by Inst

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1 minute ago, Inst said:

I thought Roq had publicly disclosed the secret treaty.

What both Roq and I have publicly stated here in and a variety of chats/radio shows, is there was an agreement with tS government (Kayser and the rest of the government in that channel), with regards to a variety of scenarios that could play out, and our response to them. We were in agreement, no two spheres should consolidate since that would put this project at risk and therefore, we'd counter. It had nothing to do with BK or any other alliance, and seemingly tS FA at that point failed to inform HS of these terms (since it was during the negotiation phase of our MD). 

3 minutes ago, Inst said:

As far as overkilling BK went, as someone who had observed the fight since the start of the war, if Rose hadn't entered against BK and was saved for T$NPO, there would have been no need for NPO to cross fronts and put T$ in a hard spot. BK would have been able to hold much better, with like 100-200k planes removed from KERCHTOG. Rose entering on T$NPO would have presented much better odds, although KERCHTOGG was crippled by Grumpy's refusal to do full-scale fighting.

Possibly yes. Also what went wrong probably was GoB/Guardian not selling down sooner to coordinate hits with the larger number of CoS/KT/TGH who had more planes in keeping us locked down longer. Especially when we entered fronts, it was sort of a get out of a sticky spot card, since that helped us to meatshield for the rest of coalition B for a round or two. It was risky and a hard call to make, but I guess worth it in the end, since it helped Coalition B build up faster than estimated and take control of the war in its entirety much faster. 

Rose being in or out of it was at best a marginal call given how the war eventually played out (also Rose's military guy going to VM.) 

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The way it was described was that T$NPO would limit its participation to simply hitting KETOG instead of Chaos. This became impossible because BK was too overwhelmed, and hence, the recent T$NPO fracas.

 

As far as Rose mattering, Rose is currently a hulk or a wreck, and I'd say part of the reason DTC Justice decided to VM was because it was a complete mess. But earlier on, Rose was capable of putting in the hurt on its opponents, especially given the number of Rose planes flying. Admittedly, I recall now that Rose was closer to 150k planes than the 200k I remembered, but it would have helped had KETOG fought properly. And if KERCHTOG had lost then, the war progressing this way wouldn't have been as acrimonious 

 

But I'm assuming everyone is happy with the way the war has turned out; i.e, KERCHTOG seems to be intent on killing ex-IQ no matter what it takes.

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1 hour ago, Shadowthrone said:

Firstly your premise is wrong in trying to use a secret treaty argument. Secondly, throwing in Rose wasn't really the overkill. It was the consolidation of KERTCHOGG. 

Tends to happen when both NPO and BK plot to roll us and have it leak.

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15 minutes ago, Buorhann said:

Tends to happen when both NPO and BK plot to roll us and have it leak.

NPO was in on it now is it? That's a fancy new narrative. I really how you keep shifting stories Buor.  There weren't very many things we were in touch with BK for, and rolling you wasn't one of those iirc. 

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3 hours ago, Shadowthrone said:

What both Roq and I have publicly stated here in and a variety of chats/radio shows, is there was an agreement with tS government (Kayser and the rest of the government in that channel), with regards to a variety of scenarios that could play out, and our response to them. We were in agreement, no two spheres should consolidate since that would put this project at risk and therefore, we'd counter. It had nothing to do with BK or any other alliance, and seemingly tS FA at that point failed to inform HS of these terms (since it was during the negotiation phase of our MD). 

Can you show proof because what t$ has told me sounds completely different than what you are saying. I think it’s funny how we are completely disregarding the fact that NPO didn’t join as soon as they found out Rose joined the war, but waited until BK sphere was losing lol.  😂😛

3 hours ago, Shadowthrone said:

Rose being in or out of it was at best a marginal call given how the war eventually played out (also Rose's military guy going to VM.) 

 Also DtC wasn’t our military guy that was Valk. DtC mentioned that he didn’t have time to play for a while so would have to go into VM.

2 hours ago, Prefonteen said:

 

Rose has always been a hulk of a wreck. It's physical state now reflects that properly.

 

And lastly @Prefonteen how’s TJest doing 😂

 
Edited by Mhearl
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5 minutes ago, Mhearl said:

Can you show proof because what t$ has told me sounds completely different than what you are saying. I think it’s funny how we are completely disregarding the fact that NPO didn’t join as soon as they found out Rose joined the war, but waited until BK sphere was losing lol.  Also DtC wasn’t our military guy that was Valk. DtC mentioned that he didn’t have time to play for a while so would have to go into VM. And lastly @Prefonteen how’s TJest doing 😂😛

Also disregarding that Roq admitted in earlier forum posts that BK was also aware of this 'deal' as were the rest of N$O, but no one else on orbis was.

Sorry but there is no way to slice that where it doesn't look like exactly what it is, a secret MDP in the rather likely event, did to its size, that two groups go after BK together.

The idea of intervening to keep the scales balanced in the name of NPOs vision of how minispheres is not stupid, but the way you implement it is mind-numbingly retarded. Anything that tosses context into a fire and sees the world in black and white will always act unjustly against what it claims to act for.

Next time NPO, please consider context into your plans. The devil is in the details, best start reading them and stop suspecting conspiracies.

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31 minutes ago, Mhearl said:

Can you show proof because what t$ has told me sounds completely different than what you are saying. I think it’s funny how we are completely disregarding the fact that NPO didn’t join as soon as they found out Rose joined the war, but waited until BK sphere was losing lol.  😂😛

 

Like I said it was never about Rose joining the war, that's Inst's take on military tactic, not our own :P Proof for what exactly? That we had an agreement made with tS with regards to the right to intervene?

21 minutes ago, Akuryo said:

Also disregarding that Roq admitted in earlier forum posts that BK was also aware of this 'deal' as were the rest of N$O, but no one else on orbis was.

Roq did not. He did admit to Kayser stating we'd defend our interests in case folks consolidate vs any sphere. He also conceded Kayser didn't inform HS about this before we signed our treaties. So either you're intentionally misquoting @Roquentin or you're lying. Either's fine with me. 

21 minutes ago, Akuryo said:

The idea of intervening to keep the scales balanced in the name of NPOs vision of how minispheres is not stupid, but the way you implement it is mind-numbingly retarded. Anything that tosses context into a fire and sees the world in black and white will always act unjustly against what it claims to act for.

Never claimed to act for any holier than thou reason, other than protecting our own interests. It was in our mutual interests to keep that project going, things change, external goal posts shift and one's left reacting to the situation as it develops. I mean I don't particularly care for minispheres or the game meta insofar as we can accomplish what we need to, with those who are like-minded. N$O was built on that, but I guess as government's change, things change and we're here now. 

 

21 minutes ago, Akuryo said:

Next time NPO, please consider context into your plans. The devil is in the details, best start reading them and stop suspecting conspiracies.

The details being? We've looked at the details and acted accordingly. There's not much of a conspiracy, given a lot of actions are highly predictable. Nevertheless, we did what we had to at that point in time, as a preventive measure. But I'll be sure to remember to ask you for advice next time around ;) 

Edited by Shadowthrone
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31 minutes ago, Akuryo said:

Also disregarding that Roq admitted in earlier forum posts that BK was also aware of this 'deal' as were the rest of N$O, but no one else on orbis was.

Sorry but there is no way to slice that where it doesn't look like exactly what it is, a secret MDP in the rather likely event, did to its size, that two groups go after BK together.

The idea of intervening to keep the scales balanced in the name of NPOs vision of how minispheres is not stupid, but the way you implement it is mind-numbingly retarded. Anything that tosses context into a fire and sees the world in black and white will always act unjustly against what it claims to act for.

Next time NPO, please consider context into your plans. The devil is in the details, best start reading them and stop suspecting conspiracies.

I didn't say BK was. The idea that we had a right to intervene if we felt threatened by such a scenario was between NPO and tS.  The commitment to such an idea apparently didn't extend past Hilmes even though it was discussed openly amongst others. Most of the changes in perspective and disputes boil down to Hilmes' disappearance  coupled with the TCW leak disincentivizing the original plans for them or rather pre-existing disagreements  in there with his stances and the disagreeing parties had their own set of priorities which ended up being the operative policies upon his disappearance coupled with the TCW leak. I had already said H S was not informed as we thought they had been briefed by Hilmes and apparently they weren't so it wasn't fair to them. 

Edited by Roquentin
cleared it up

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4 hours ago, Shadowthrone said:

NPO was in on it now is it? That's a fancy new narrative. I really how you keep shifting stories Buor.  There weren't very many things we were in touch with BK for, and rolling you wasn't one of those iirc. 

Your actions clearly dictated the narrative you're trying to turn away from.

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Strategic interests take priority over the optics. If I recall the main argument when it was said mini-spheres would eventually lead back to two sides, was that it was still worth doing even if that was inevitable. The only alternative was de facto alignment with another sphere, which would have been problematic in its own way.  The worse option is to rely on the beneficence of other people by staying out and being a big shiny target.

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Thanks for that Shifty.  I already know that NPO's forum facade is nothing but lies, and that they fully intended to support BK no matter what (Whether it was us roflstomping BK + Friends for their leak or BK steam rolling TKR/Chaos despite our ongoing war against Chaos).  I've seen enough snippets of logs that involved BK/NPO/(Kayser led Syndicate) to know what was up, and it was one of the reasons why I was royally pissed off at Wilhelm for following such a dumbass plan (Which later I found out that he didn't know everything that was going on when I ripped into him).

 

For some odd reason, people still want to believe them.  Still, everything will be alright after this war concludes, when it concludes.

Edited by Buorhann
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9 hours ago, Shadowthrone said:

We were in agreement, no two spheres should consolidate since that would put this project at risk and therefore, we'd counter. It had nothing to do with BK or any other alliance, and seemingly tS FA at that point failed to inform HS of these terms (since it was during the negotiation phase of our MD). 

This is an honest question.  What two spheres did you expect to declare on a single sphere?.

 

It could just be me, but it seems that the only viable options (as y'all are the only blocs large enough) are against N$O where your policy couldn't be used as you'd already be at war or BK which as we saw.  

I mean do you see any other outcome from this policy besides helping out BK?  And I don't want this to offend you, but it's a question I've been repeatedly asking and haven't got answered.

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