The war so far - v3

[Kyubnyan]

Yes, but infra loss doesn't mean anything if you don't destroy their conventional military units. I've seen a few people in syndisphere with full military but only having 700 infra per city because IQ nuked them only thinking of doing infra damage. And in the long run that really only hurts the mid tier nations on IQ's side

[Sweeeeet Ronny D]

I don't think you're looking at this correctly. You've been sipping the Syndisphere Kool-Aid too much.

 

Take a look at tS for example. They have an average of 808.63 infra per city. To give you a little perspective, Cornerstone, Lordaeron, and Zodiac has a higher average infra count that them, and that's just looking at those 3.

 

So you can say that these alliances aren't hurting, but they are, that top isn't saving them and they are in danger of losing it and they know that.

 

In TKR their mid tier has fallen and will continue to fall. So this idiocy coming from that side is hilarious because we'll be at your top's door in 1-2 rounds and once that falls they'll have nothing to show for themselves.

 

Historically, this has always been my opinion, the bottom tier doesn't matter in a war, I view them as a resource and moral drain on an alliance.  (why do you think I started a top tier only alliance)

 

While yes you can slowly pull people into the bottom tiers to grind them down, if you think that you can reach the top tier in 1-2 rounds you are out of your mind.  Its going to take you probably a month or more if everything goes perfectly and you discount things like resources and war fatigue. 

 

What will actually happen is you will hit a wall, where your progress will dramatically drop, and IQ will have an extremely difficult time dragging new guys down while still keeping the current guys beatdown.  I haven't been paying super close attention so you may have already hit it.

[Spaceman Thrax]

Kastor, do you ever account for the fact that you frequently say things that are later demonstrated to be totally wrong when you go to say a new thing?

[Hodor]

I don't think you're looking at this correctly. You've been sipping the Syndisphere Kool-Aid too much.

 

Take a look at tS for example. They have an average of 808.63 infra per city. To give you a little perspective, Cornerstone, Lordaeron, and Zodiac has a higher average infra count that them, and that's just looking at those 3.

 

So you can say that these alliances aren't hurting, but they are, that top isn't saving them and they are in danger of losing it and they know that.

 

In TKR their mid tier has fallen and will continue to fall. So this idiocy coming from that side is hilarious because we'll be at your top's door in 1-2 rounds and once that falls they'll have nothing to show for themselves.

 

Infrastructure per city 05/05/2017, cherry picking at its finest

 

Pantheon: 1,963

Guardian: 1,913

Commonwealth: 1,500

Rose: 1,389

TKR: 1,319

Cornerstone: 1,083

Mensa: 1,052

Acadia: 917

Zodiac: 911

NPO: 871

Lordaeron: 827

t$: 807

SK: 793

VE: 668

BK: 580

Edited May 5, 2017 by Hodor

[Micchan]

I don't think you're looking at this correctly. You've been sipping the Syndisphere Kool-Aid too much.

 

Take a look at tS for example. They have an average of 808.63 infra per city. To give you a little perspective, Cornerstone, Lordaeron, and Zodiac has a higher average infra count that them, and that's just looking at those 3.

 

So you can say that these alliances aren't hurting, but they are, that top isn't saving them and they are in danger of losing it and they know that.

 

In TKR their mid tier has fallen and will continue to fall. So this idiocy coming from that side is hilarious because we'll be at your top's door in 1-2 rounds and once that falls they'll have nothing to show for themselves.

The alliance who was 1 vs 7 has low infra? WOW UNEXPECTED!

 

Do you know that Oberstein alone makes enough to finance 10 low-mid tier nations at war?

 

As long as LPS doesn't return from the Maldives/Bahamas/Fiji/Jamaica/Seychelles/Polinesia/insertmanyturisticplaceshere we are not scared

[Buorhann]

I don't think you're looking at this correctly. You've been sipping the Syndisphere Kool-Aid too much.

 

Take a look at tS for example. They have an average of 808.63 infra per city. To give you a little perspective, Cornerstone, Lordaeron, and Zodiac has a higher average infra count that them, and that's just looking at those 3.

 

So you can say that these alliances aren't hurting, but they are, that top isn't saving them and they are in danger of losing it and they know that.

 

In TKR their mid tier has fallen and will continue to fall. So this idiocy coming from that side is hilarious because we'll be at your top's door in 1-2 rounds and once that falls they'll have nothing to show for themselves.

 

 

It still amazes me that you don't see what's happening.  The vast majority of nations you've pulled down is due to people eliminating their military, so that you can do so with little to no resistance.

 

We'll see you in "1-2 rounds".

[Them]

Here's some perspective:

It costs $5,942,556 to build a city from 800 infra to 1500 infra and only $1,158,986 to build from 10 infra to 800.

Funding wars is not the issue. Both sides can fund the war for a long time.

Nobody is saying that the Inquisition is in a favorable position now. (Syndisphere has an economic advantage from their untouched upper tier) The difference is that war is cheap for the Inquisition which does not have much to lose, while many alliances in the Syndisphere still have high infra averages (potentially to be lost).

In fact, bottom tiers affect wars more than the upper tiers. A bottom tier advantage can be translated into a mid tier advantage (mid tier combat decides wars) while upper tiers are unable to participate in the bulk of the combat due to score restrictions. Hogwarts, GoB, and other "elite" alliances may have had some fun blowing up the Inquisition's semblance of an upper tier, but they'll be sitting out for the rest of the war. (the Inquisition is able to effectively utilize most of its score and military, while the Syndisphere is unable to do so)

 

 

Yes, but infra loss doesn't mean anything if you don't destroy their conventional military units. I've seen a few people in syndisphere with full military but only having 700 infra per city because IQ nuked them only thinking of doing infra damage. And in the long run that really only hurts the mid tier nations on IQ's side // It's actually the opposite right now. The Inquisition is focusing on military units ATM and is leaving infra bombing for later on.

 

 

It still amazes me that you don't see what's happening. The vast majority of nations you've pulled down is due to people eliminating their military, so that you can do so with little to no resistance. // How is this positive for the Syndisphere? If you mean that they got pulled down due to faliled downdeclares, then that would be more accurate. You seem to be implying that they're getting beat down on their own volition.

 

 

I remember some Syndicate members shitposting roughly the same things I'm saying during Proxy, Oktoberfest, 168, etc. It's the same argument. I'm pretty sure we came to the conclusion that upper tier superiority does not decide wars.

Edited May 5, 2017 by Them

[Buorhann]

We're not the ones who initiated this conflict, or even approach about peace initially.

 

We're fine with continuing the war.  Not quite sure why you're arguing so much about this if it's not an issue.

 

We have our plans and goals, and we know our situation with the data we're pulling, we're getting there.  Granted it's a slow process, but we're getting there.  Wars, regardless of costs, aren't something we're afraid of.  We knew WAY AHEAD OF TIME that a war with IQ would be costly due to score disparity (Again, I'll repeat, why would we be planning to hit IQ if we knew it would cost a lot to do so?), but it's a cost we can easily afford due to our advantages we have - especially considering who started the war and the reasons why.

 

This war is different from other wars.  With score disparity and new mechanics to work around with.  That's why this war is seemingly at a stalemate, because things take awhile to progress.  Like I said though, we're getting there.

 

Hell, this isn't even the longest war in the game yet.

Edited May 5, 2017 by Buorhann

[Them]

We're fine with continuing the war. Not quite sure why you're arguing so much about this if it's not an issue. // I'm just addressing the "muh upper tier" argument, mostly. I don't really care why the war started at this point.

[Them]

Also, underrepresentation of the Inquisition viewpoint on the forums.

[Buorhann]

I remember some Syndicate members shitposting roughly the same things I'm saying during Proxy, Oktoberfest, 168, etc. It's the same argument. I'm pretty sure we came to the conclusion that upper tier superiority does not decide wars.

 

I wanted to touch base on this.

 

Upper tier matter to fund the wars and potentially preserve banks (Depending on how your bankers handle this), but if your upper tier is threatened by a mass influx of mid-tier nations - then it's different.  

 

You guys don't have a solid mid-tier to threaten our top guys.  Those past wars, we've had solid mid-tier nations (Mensa at it's prime, Syndicate, TKR to an extent at those times, etc) that could easily updeclare and drag the uppers down.  SRD already explained this.

 

If you guys manage to get to that point, then perhaps we'll be discussing peace terms more.  Or perhaps we won't and just enjoy the war more.

[ArcKnox]

I wasn't aware the forums had a hard mode too

[8mrgrim8]

I wanted to touch base on this.

 

Upper tier matter to fund the wars and potentially preserve banks (Depending on how your bankers handle this), but if your upper tier is threatened by a mass influx of mid-tier nations - then it's different.  

 

You guys don't have a solid mid-tier to threaten our top guys.  Those past wars, we've had solid mid-tier nations (Mensa at it's prime, Syndicate, TKR to an extent at those times, etc) that could easily updeclare and drag the uppers down.  SRD already explained this.

 

If you guys manage to get to that point, then perhaps we'll be discussing peace terms more.  Or perhaps we won't and just enjoy the war more.

 

exactly if you guys manage to build a middle tier, i'll actually have something to fight, so work on it. I suggest you dump what ever money you left on a couple nations and blitz Guardians cause we're bored.

[Rozalia]

Personally I'm interested in knowing who is taking the most decimation of members due to the current type of war this has become. That could well be important, if not not now then perhaps in a future conflict.
 

I think there is a lot of activity difference between paragon and syndi

 
Well yes, even they will gladly tell you that.
 

True, but we also had a much bigger focus in the mid-tier than the IQ coalition does now.  So it was much easier for us to threaten their top tiers at the time.
 
IQ would have to grow, a lot, in order to touch our top tiers since they dominate the low-tier area.

 
If we are more focused then you do make a good point there. The mid-tier dominance is certainly more important than the low tier one, and if you didn't have it then you'd not have eventually been able to bring that top tier down a notch.
 

They have no ability to use their control of the low tiers to snowball into control of mid and high.

 
They will say differently and I haven't looked at the numbers closely to find out. If I had to state a gut feeling I'd likely go for your view on that.

Edited May 5, 2017 by Rozalia

[Micchan]

Here's some perspective:

It costs $5,942,556 to build a city from 800 infra to 1500 infra and only $1,158,986 to build from 10 infra to 800.

Funding wars is not the issue. Both sides can fund the war for a long time.

Nobody is saying that the Inquisition is in a favorable position now. (Syndisphere has an economic advantage from their untouched upper tier) The difference is that war is cheap for the Inquisition which does not have much to lose, while many alliances in the Syndisphere still have high infra averages (potentially to be lost).

In fact, bottom tiers affect wars more than the upper tiers. A bottom tier advantage can be translated into a mid tier advantage (mid tier combat decides wars) while upper tiers are unable to participate in the bulk of the combat due to score restrictions. Hogwarts, GoB, and other "elite" alliances may have had some fun blowing up the Inquisition's semblance of an upper tier, but they'll be sitting out for the rest of the war. (the Inquisition is able to effectively utilize most of its score and military, while the Syndisphere is unable to do so)

 

 

Yes, but infra loss doesn't mean anything if you don't destroy their conventional military units. I've seen a few people in syndisphere with full military but only having 700 infra per city because IQ nuked them only thinking of doing infra damage. And in the long run that really only hurts the mid tier nations on IQ's side // It's actually the opposite right now. The Inquisition is focusing on military units ATM and is leaving infra bombing for later on.

 

 

It still amazes me that you don't see what's happening. The vast majority of nations you've pulled down is due to people eliminating their military, so that you can do so with little to no resistance. // How is this positive for the Syndisphere? If you mean that they got pulled down due to faliled downdeclares, then that would be more accurate. You seem to be implying that they're getting beat down on their own volition.

 

 

I remember some Syndicate members shitposting roughly the same things I'm saying during Proxy, Oktoberfest, 168, etc. It's the same argument. I'm pretty sure we came to the conclusion that upper tier superiority does not decide wars.

What we both see:

1. Me doing downdeclare on 4-5 nations

2. 3 BK/NPO declare on me

3. They start hitting my planes

4. I start losing planes

 

What IQ see from this point:

5a. YEEEEEEE WE PINNED DOWN ONE UPPER TIER YEEEEEE

6a. DESTROY THESE PLANES!

7a. HIT THOSE INFRA!

8a. WE ARE WINNING THE WAR!

9a. FOR STEVE! (well this was only Greatkittah)

 

What I see from this point:

5b. They have only planes so ground control and then blockade

6b. They have 8 nations busy with me

7b. Their airstrikes (when immense triumph) do 1/4 the infra damage of my naval/ground, many times I win the war so they also lose 10% in every city, I was already damaged by many nukes and missiles so I'm losing cheap infra

8b. With the naval block they run out of money/resources pretty fast thanks to my ground attacks and they can't rebuild military or they started the war with enough money so I make money with ground attacks and then the loot

9b. I'm not in the upper tier with full military because I'm making more money here

10b. Hit me more please! 

[Anneal]

This war is so boring. It was fun to watch at the very beginning, but now it sucks

End war now pls, it no longer has any interesting concepts to bring.

What I'm concerned of is that I'm still not being nominated for best rookie.

[Micchan]

What I'm concerned of is that I'm still not being nominated for best rookie.

>War record: 13 W – 7 E – 1 L

>1 L

Sorry

[Justin076]

I don't think you're looking at this correctly. You've been sipping the Syndisphere Kool-Aid too much.

 

Take a look at tS for example. They have an average of 808.63 infra per city. To give you a little perspective, Cornerstone, Lordaeron, and Zodiac has a higher average infra count that them, and that's just looking at those 3.

 

So you can say that these alliances aren't hurting, but they are, that top isn't saving them and they are in danger of losing it and they know that.

 

In TKR their mid tier has fallen and will continue to fall. So this idiocy coming from that side is hilarious because we'll be at your top's door in 1-2 rounds and once that falls they'll have nothing to show for themselves.

 

It is Friday so I'm going to assume you were under the influence of alcohol while writing this? If not you're completely out of your mind. 

 

Take a look at tS for example. They have an average of 808.63 infra per city. To give you a little perspective, Cornerstone, Lordaeron, and Zodiac has a higher average infra count that them, and that's just looking at those 3.

 

 

Opps, think you forgot to mention that Pantheon, Guardian, TKR, Rose, TCW and Mensa HQ have a higher avg of infra than Lordaeron? Silly Kastor, you should know better! 

 

So this idiocy coming from that side is hilarious because we'll be at your top's door in 1-2 rounds and once that falls they'll have nothing to show for themselves.

 

 

Have another beer Kastor!  

[Anneal]

>War record: 13 W – 7 E – 1 L

>1 L

Sorry

Pretty sure Bopolo isn't doing as well as I am.

 

Though seriously I had no idea why he got picked, TKR had a few good candidates who really did exceed expectations while Bopolo was more or less luck ( his target was ZM'd by Felkey beforehand ), and haven't performed well in other occasions. Just like to joke about being "best rookie" since he was nominated so heavily on that other topic.

[Senry]

Pretty sure Bopolo isn't doing as well as I am.

 

Though seriously I had no idea why he got picked, TKR had a few good candidates who really did exceed expectations while Bopolo was more or less luck ( his target was ZM'd by Felkey beforehand ), and haven't performed well in other occasions. Just like to joke about being "best rookie" since he was nominated so heavily on that other topic.

Can I be second best with my 10-2-2 soon to be 17-2-2?

 

Just, like, consolation prize.

[Anneal]

Can I be second best with my 10-2-2 soon to be 17-2-2?

 

Just, like, consolation prize.

Taking a few airstrikes for the alliance is fairly deserving of a consolation prize.

[Senry]

It was more than a few, pal.

 

More than a few.

[Micchan]

I'm also at my first real alliance war so I'm a rookie

 

Infra destr. Soldiers killed Tanks destr. Air destr. Ships destr. Money stolen    77.972,98           1.779.143          107.829      10.124                 790    213.434.852,45 

 

21 won - 3 expired - 0 lost - 3 peace - 4 ongoing

 

Bopolo who?

[Kastor]

You guys are hilarious

[Senry]

You guys are hilarious

 

The feeling is more than mutual