Get off your high horse

[Josh of Clan Mason]

Let me preface this by saying I'm completely prepared and expecting to get downvoted to hell. Your red arrows mean nothing to me, I'm just here to speak my mind.

So, TL;DR: There are way too many people on here (especially Col. A) being extremely hypocritical.
There's no denying that lately there has been plenty of anti-Col. B threads floating around, really kinda starting with George's "plea", but the current sentiment around Col. B has been this way for a good while. Now, let me be clear: this is NOT in defense in Col. B. This whole post is against hypocrites and I'd be one myself if I didn't admit both I myself and Col. B members have made mistakes. I'm here to say that I'm sick of people on here acting like they'd never/never had done do/done anything wrong. There's plenty of people on here absolutely ragging on others for whatever, but then turning around and doing the same or other awful things. I'm making this post because of what my alliance leader, TheNG, revealed to me today. He was doxxed by Col. A members. While this wasn't a full doxxing (no address, phone number, etc. revealed) it's absolutely ridiculous that someone thought it was ok to leak DM's of him talking about OOC real life stuff. I've never seen this game as toxic as is it now and I've been playing off and on since May 2016. You guys - me included- need to get a hold of yourselves. Remind yourself that this is a browser game and there is no need to try to ruin it for others.
Again, this goes for everyone.

My message to @Alexis: Get control of this game back. I can't tell if you're just ignoring the problems or have selective hearing, but you appear to be responding when it's convenient or when certain people report something. The discord and these forums are both a mess and you combat them with vague responses, such as your cyber-bullying announcement earlier. I posted a comment on here a few days ago criticizing you and it got removed for "posting in a non-discussion forum", I've received that warning before and didn't have my post removed. There is loads of bias with several moderators and nothing is being done to combat that, let alone the state of the entire community.

[Clarke]

TheNG talking about OOC stuff is the last straw for you? really?

You really shouldn't be saying personal OOC stuff if you aren't ok with it being public, its being internet savvy. 

Edited December 5, 2019 by Clarke

[ChloeJessica]

what do you know, a Josh post that i agree with. never thought id see the day.

1 minute ago, Clarke said:

TheNG talking about OOC stuff is the last straw for you? really?

You really shouldn't be saying personal OOC stuff if you aren't ok with it being public, its being internet savvy. 

if you didn't want to be assaulted, you shouldn't have dressed like that.

come on with the victim blaming. that's never okay.

 

[Changeup]

"especially Coalition A"

Go read some posts from your Coalition's leadership and come back after you've done that. Thank you. 

[Tymeier]

The toxicity is going too far

[Josh of Clan Mason]

1 minute ago, Clarke said:

TheNG talking about OOC stuff is the last straw for you? really?

You really shouldn't be doing saying OOC if you aren't ok with it being public, its being internet savvy. 

There's plenty of instances of things like this happening otherwise I wouldn't have posted, but yes technically what happened to TheNG was the straw that broke the camel's back, especially after I saw that it really did upset him. He's taking a short break.
I don't think it's public if it's in DM's but whatever, whether it was internet savvy or not, you shouldn't leak something someone trusted you with. For example, if someone sends you nudes, it wasn't a good decision on their part to do so, but that doesn't make it ok to leak them.

[Arawra]

The second you made it political, full stop, you lost. OOC should stay OOC, it should not be brought into the game, whether that be leaking private information without scrubbing or driving people out of the game.

[Dreki]

I guess it happens when logs get leaked, right?
I honestly don't recommend talking about IRL stuff with people you don't know well in the game or in discord chats where random people have access to
But I agree that doxxing shouldn't be used as a weapon in a browser game

[ChloeJessica]

Just now, Josh of Clan Mason said:

There's plenty of instances of things like this happening otherwise I wouldn't have posted, but yes technically what happened to TheNG was the straw that broke the camel's back, especially after I saw that it really did upset him. He's taking a short break.
I don't think it's public if it's in DM's but whatever, whether it was internet savvy or not, you shouldn't leak something someone trusted you with. For example, if someone sends you nudes, it wasn't a good decision on their part to do so, but that doesn't make it ok to leak them.

josh stop making good posts you're shaking my faith in reality

[BowShot118]

This game is just a mess atm ^

Edited December 5, 2019 by BowShot118

[Josh of Clan Mason]

4 minutes ago, Changeup said:

"especially Coalition A"

Go read some posts from your Coalition's leadership and come back after you've done that. Thank you. 

It may not have been my best decision to include that bit, but I'm leaving it in regardless. I was pretty clear in my post that it goes for everyone, and I said similar things several times. I included that bit because of the mass hate for Col. B on here lately, but then Col. A members turn around and do this.

[Cincinnatus]

Who from what alliance doxxed NG. Name and shame 

[Rygus]

13 minutes ago, Josh of Clan Mason said:

There's plenty of people on here absolutely ragging on others for whatever, but then turning around and doing the same or other awful things. I'm making this post because of what my alliance leader, TheNG, revealed to me today. He was doxxed by Col. A members. While this wasn't a full doxxing (no address, phone number, etc. revealed) it's absolutely ridiculous that someone thought it was ok to leak DM's of him talking about OOC real life stuff.

"He was doxxed by Col. A members"

Yeah, who?

[Josh of Clan Mason]

1 minute ago, Charles the Tyrant said:

Who from what alliance doxxed NG. Name and shame 

He hasn't told me or others as far as I know, but it might not be hard to find. Either way, let's be careful about retaliation, that would fight fire with fire and be somewhat hypocritical. I agree that it is an awful thing to do though.

[Cincinnatus]

Just now, Josh of Clan Mason said:

He hasn't told me or others as far as I know, but it might not be hard to find. Either way, let's be careful about retaliation, that would fight fire with fire and be somewhat hypocritical. I agree that it is an awful thing to do though.

I disagree, people who pull these antics should be named and punished accordingly no matter who they are.

[Arawra]

3 minutes ago, Josh of Clan Mason said:

It may not have been my best decision to include that bit, but I'm leaving it in regardless. I was pretty clear in my post that it goes for everyone, and I said similar things several times. I included that bit because of the mass hate for Col. B on here lately, but then Col. A members turn around and do this.

Your post would have been better received if you had come across as objective, but your refusal to acknowledge the hypocrisy even regarding matters like OOC from your side too is harmful to your (very valid) points. Yes, the logs should have been scrubbed of OOC information, but there's also your side fulfilling a war goal to drive as much opposition from the game they can, which is also very much OOC.

[Josh of Clan Mason]

Just now, Charles the Tyrant said:

I disagree, people who pull these antics should be named and punished accordingly no matter who they are.

I'm on the same page, but we do have to be the bigger person.

[Teaspoon]

Log leaking has always been part and parcel of games like this, but doing an uncurated mass dump of all channels of a discord server is definitely unprecedented and beyond the pale. Even the most banal of offtopic discussions can cause problems for people if leaked to the wrong parties.

This is also the reason why the TCM stuff wasn't distributed, fwiw.

[Chief Wiggum]

26 minutes ago, Josh of Clan Mason said:

I'm making this post because of what my alliance leader, TheNG, revealed to me today. He was doxxed by Col. A members. While this wasn't a full doxxing (no address, phone number, etc. revealed) it's absolutely ridiculous that someone thought it was ok to leak DM's of him talking about OOC real life stuff.

The thread you are referring to included logs of entire channels that were not filtered. In the discussions of these channels, some OOC information was included. To my understanding, no one went through the whole thing to filter it, which is something that should have been done/taken under consideration.

Reports about the links to these logs were made, but unfortunately no forum mod was active at that time to act immediately.

The "violators" have officially identified this wrongdoing and have taken down the links on their own. This may not resolve the problem, since the links may still be around, but the problem was identified by the corresponding posters before having to get a moderation warning or anything.

To my understanding, no member was specifically targeted on purpose.

I hope this clarifies things for you.

 

[Changeup]

Just now, Josh of Clan Mason said:

He hasn't told me or others as far as I know, but it might not be hard to find. Either way, let's be careful about retaliation, that would fight fire with fire and be somewhat hypocritical. I agree that it is an awful thing to do though.

So he hasn't told anyone who it is, or from what I can tell provided proof - and you all just blindly believe this?

I agree with your sentiment, but the way you wrote both the original post where you blame Coalition A then failed to back it up with actual evidence is in itself being toxic.

Furthermore, hypocrisy isn't really the problem this game has. Toxicity, people trying to drive other players from the game, open hate, flaming, and trolling are the problems. 

[James II]

1 minute ago, Josh of Clan Mason said:

He hasn't told me or others as far as I know, but it might not be hard to find. Either way, let's be careful about retaliation, that would fight fire with fire and be somewhat hypocritical. I agree that it is an awful thing to do though.

So what you're saying is, you don't actually know if there is doxxing, but someone who is desperate to get the subject of the logs out of everyone's mouth, told you that they were doxxed, therefore we are the hypocrites, and we can conveniently ignore the coercion of children into face revealing, false accusations of pedophilia, and children coerced into eating animal food. Us leaking logs of a coalition chat, talking about running entire alliance memberships out of the game as a pre-requisite for peace, and bad mouthing their own allies, is not doxxing. Any OOC discussion that was posted in those channels, has been removed, none of which even remotely comes close to the definition of doxxing. It requires both information that leads to the identification of an individual, and intent, to reveal that person's identity. Both of which members in your coalition have done...to children...

[Spaceman Thrax]

1 minute ago, Josh of Clan Mason said:

He hasn't told me or others as far as I know, but it might not be hard to find. Either way, let's be careful about retaliation, that would fight fire with fire and be somewhat hypocritical. I agree that it is an awful thing to do though.

As far as I know, those raw logs were leaked from someone from within your own coalition, then released by someone who isn't in either coalition. Shortly after, they were removed, and no one in our coalition has disputed that removal I don't think? Just the opposite.

It sucks to have OOC stuff released and I'm genuinely sorry NG is that upset. It shouldn't have happened, but it I don't think anyone intended for OOC stuff to be released in that way, and our coalition was not responsible for it.

I'm sorry: I understand your frustration, truly, but you're throwing gas on a fire making this thread with incomplete facts as far as I can see it.

[Adrienne]

16 minutes ago, Chief Wiggum said:

The "violators" have officially identified this wrongdoing and have taken down the links on their own. This may not resolve the problem, since the links may still be around, but the problem was identified by the corresponding posters before having to get a moderation warning or anything.

The links were also scrubbed. It may not be completely resolved if people downloaded anything but everything that could be done after the fact was done.

Edited December 5, 2019 by Adrienne

[Guest Curufinwe]

1 hour ago, Dreki said:

I guess it happens when logs get leaked, right?
I honestly don't recommend talking about IRL stuff with people you don't know well in the game or in discord chats where random people have access to
But I agree that doxxing shouldn't be used as a weapon in a browser game

Well, especially in the upper level logs that have been circulated, you're talking about people that have known each other and worked together for years for the most part, so there was a reasonable expectation of privacy.  Obviously including Gorge in those channels was a bad idea (he'd also been affiliated with most of these people for years, so it seemed reasonable at the time).  Anyways, yeah, I don't blame coalition A for this situation, since I doubt anyone would refuse an offer of logs from an opposing server, but it's still unfortunate that no effort was made to expunge OOC stuff in the initial drops (I know at least one person has received unsolicited messages about a health condition that was referenced in the logs, which is kind of messed up).  So yeah, use the logs for political stuff as you like, but I don't think mass disclosing OOC personal info without the consent of the parties involved is a route we should collectively be going down.

1 hour ago, James II said:

So what you're saying is, you don't actually know if there is doxxing, but someone who is desperate to get the subject of the logs out of everyone's mouth, told you that they were doxxed, therefore we are the hypocrites, and we can conveniently ignore the coercion of children into face revealing, false accusations of pedophilia, and children coerced into eating animal food. Us leaking logs of a coalition chat, talking about running entire alliance memberships out of the game as a pre-requisite for peace, and bad mouthing their own allies, is not doxxing. Any OOC discussion that was posted in those channels, has been removed, none of which even remotely comes close to the definition of doxxing. It requires both information that leads to the identification of an individual, and intent, to reveal that person's identity. Both of which members in your coalition have done...to children...

My understanding is the initial log drops weren't scrubbed, so for anyone who downloaded them in the initial day or so, the damage is done.  It's good that Gorge reconsidered and went back to scrub the logs, but it doesn't really put the genie back in the bottle.

Edited December 5, 2019 by Curufinwe

[ChloeJessica]

1 minute ago, Adrienne said:

The links were also scrubbed. It may not be completely resolved if people downloaded anything but everything that could be fine after the fact was done.

thank you for handling a difficult situation with grace.