James II Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 (edited) Just gonna quote this again just in case Steve forgets tS government kept bugging me about our position. I told them before the war kicked off that we probably would not get involved in a way that would drastically change the affect of the war. We would hit people who had no place hitting Rose (outside of treaty chains) however, I also stated that they should ask Placentica, as I do not give the final position for Alpha policies. Steve made it very clear to Partisan the next day, and to the rest of tS government of our position. The cited "position" was never an official position, and was clearly stated as such. Also the cited position was prior to Steve giving the official position. If you misled your members with the order of events, I can understand why they are upset with us. Edited February 18, 2016 by James II 2 Quote "Most successful new AA" - Samuel Bates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prefontaine Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 tS government kept bugging me about our position. Damn those pesky allies and their intel clauses. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James II Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Damn those pesky allies and their intel clauses. tS was directed to Placentica each time. It is common knowledge that Placentica carries the official position of Alpha. I'll repeat: tS government kept bugging me about our position. I told them before the war kicked off that we probably would not get involved in a way that would drastically change the affect of the war. We would hit people who had no place hitting Rose (outside of treaty chains) however, I also stated that they should ask Placentica, as I do not give the final position for Alpha policies. Steve made it very clear to Partisan the next day, and to the rest of tS government of our position. The cited "position" was never an official position, and was clearly stated as such. Also the cited position was prior to Steve giving the official position. If you misled your members with the order of events, I can understand why they are upset with us. Quote "Most successful new AA" - Samuel Bates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaaaddd22 Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Each of Placenticas posts are equivalent to verbal diarrhea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prefontaine Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 tS was directed to Placentica each time. It is common knowledge that Placentica carries the official position of Alpha. What your saying is the second in command of Alpha has no official knowledge of matters concerning Alpha, and is annoyed (denoted by the use of the word "bugged") when one of the two main allies of Alpha come asking about what Alpha is going to do in regards to a looming conflict. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buorhann Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 I think he also forgot to look at the exact issue of the situation ( See: AstraKat's post ). The attack on SK clearly is the issue here if you look at the treaty ties and take word of the "We would hit alliances that had no business hitting Rose". So if Alpha's original cited position ( Only hitting alliances outside of treaty ties ) was not the official position, that just tells me the attack on SK was intentional. Hence Syndicate's feelings on the matter. Right? 1 Quote Warrior of Dio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfPCFQfOnLg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James II Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 (edited) I think he also forgot to look at the exact issue of the situation ( See: AstraKat's post ). The attack on SK clearly is the issue here if you look at the treaty ties and take word of the "We would hit alliances that had no business hitting Rose". So if Alpha's original cited position ( Only hitting alliances outside of treaty ties ) was not the official position, that just tells me the attack on SK was intentional. Hence Syndicate's feelings on the matter. Right? Alphas original and official position was delivered to Partisan and tS government. The unofficial position, given prior to the official position was clearly stated as an unofficial position, and tS was told they should inquire with Steve about the Official position. When Steve was queried, he did give the official position very bluntly. tS is aware of what this position was, and it did not state we would limit ourselves to people who hit our allies outside of treaty chains. SK is not an issue, as it fell in line with our official position, which we gave tS on February 3rd, before we hit Roz Wei, and long before we hit SK. Since we keep trying to get pulled off from Tim_armstrong's argument I'll reiterate, yet again: tS government kept bugging me about our position. I told them before the war kicked off that we probably would not get involved in a way that would drastically change the affect of the war. We would hit people who had no place hitting Rose (outside of treaty chains) however, I also stated that they should ask Placentica, as I do not give the final position for Alpha policies. Steve made it very clear to Partisan the next day, and to the rest of tS government of our position. The cited "position" was never an official position, and was clearly stated as such. Also the cited position was prior to Steve giving the official position. If you misled your members with the order of events, I can understand why they are upset with us. Edited February 18, 2016 by James II Quote "Most successful new AA" - Samuel Bates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prefontaine Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 What your saying is the second in command of Alpha has no official knowledge of matters concerning Alpha, and is annoyed (denoted by the use of the word "bugged") when one of the two main allies of Alpha come asking about what Alpha is going to do in regards to a looming conflict. I can reiterate too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buorhann Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Alphas original and official position was delivered to Partisan and tS government. The unofficial position, given prior to the official position was clearly stated as an unofficial position, and tS was told they should inquire with Steve about the Official position. When Steve was queried, he did give the official position very bluntly. tS is aware of what this position was, and it did not state we would limit ourselves to people who hit our allies outside of treaty chains. SK is not an issue, as it fell in line with our official position, which we gave tS on February 3rd, before we hit Roz Wei, and long before we hit SK. Since we keep trying to get pulled off from Tim_armstrong's argument I'll reiterate, yet again: tS government kept bugging me about our position. I told them before the war kicked off that we probably would not get involved in a way that would drastically change the affect of the war. We would hit people who had no place hitting Rose (outside of treaty chains) however, I also stated that they should ask Placentica, as I do not give the final position for Alpha policies. Steve made it very clear to Partisan the next day, and to the rest of tS government of our position. The cited "position" was never an official position, and was clearly stated as such. Also the cited position was prior to Steve giving the official position. If you misled your members with the order of events, I can understand why they are upset with us. So yes, the attack on SK was intentional and the (un)official stance given to Syndicate originally was not to be taken serious - whether or not Placentica told Syndicate this, that is the end result. Instead of looking at both of your allies, you basically fully sided with one ally ( Rose ) by ignoring the ties that SK had with Syndicate. I'm not arguing if that was the right or wrong decision. However, if I'm correct here, had Alpha just maintained their attack on Roz Wei only - as there is no ties from them to Syndicate ( Or Rose ), then there should have been no issue here at all. At least officially treaty web speaking. Which makes me wonder - why only SK? Why not go for the Hail Mary and go after any other alliance that was giving Rose fits? Wasn't SK almost already depleted from the fight? Which makes me wonder even more! If SK was depleted in military numbers, why risk the alliance tie with Syndicate for some Infrastructure hits? 1 Quote Warrior of Dio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfPCFQfOnLg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegoz Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 So yes, the attack on SK was intentional and the (un)official stance given to Syndicate originally was not to be taken serious - whether or not Placentica told Syndicate this, that is the end result. Instead of looking at both of your allies, you basically fully sided with one ally ( Rose ) by ignoring the ties that SK had with Syndicate. I'm not arguing if that was the right or wrong decision. However, if I'm correct here, had Alpha just maintained their attack on Roz Wei only - as there is no ties from them to Syndicate ( Or Rose ), then there should have been no issue here at all. At least officially treaty web speaking. Which makes me wonder - why only SK? Why not go for the Hail Mary and go after any other alliance that was giving Rose fits? Wasn't SK almost already depleted from the fight? Which makes me wonder even more! If SK was depleted in military numbers, why risk the alliance tie with Syndicate for some Infrastructure hits? Cause when in doubt, just hit Cody_K. Always seems to work. 1 Quote [11:52 PM] Prefontaine: But Keegoz is actually bad. [11:52 PM] Prefontaine: He's my favorite bad leader though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buorhann Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 The underscore in his name really does make me rage. It just comes off pretentious. 1 1 Quote Warrior of Dio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfPCFQfOnLg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rozalia Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 So yes, the attack on SK was intentional and the (un)official stance given to Syndicate originally was not to be taken serious - whether or not Placentica told Syndicate this, that is the end result. Instead of looking at both of your allies, you basically fully sided with one ally ( Rose ) by ignoring the ties that SK had with Syndicate. I'm not arguing if that was the right or wrong decision. However, if I'm correct here, had Alpha just maintained their attack on Roz Wei only - as there is no ties from them to Syndicate ( Or Rose ), then there should have been no issue here at all. At least officially treaty web speaking. Which makes me wonder - why only SK? Why not go for the Hail Mary and go after any other alliance that was giving Rose fits? Wasn't SK almost already depleted from the fight? Which makes me wonder even more! If SK was depleted in military numbers, why risk the alliance tie with Syndicate for some Infrastructure hits? Pressure I'd say. They'd likely keep to just Roz Wei if things had been rosy, but with things going against Rose they had to intervene somewhere else to try and pressure a quicker ending. As for just doing it to SK and not everybody, I'd say because they wanted to minimise damage to themselves. I mean according to James II it was all part of the plan them hitting SK so why not hit SK at that time (when they hit Roz Wei) too if not to minimise damage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Prefonteen Posted February 18, 2016 Author Popular Post Share Posted February 18, 2016 (edited) tS government kept bugging me about our position. I told them before the war kicked off that we probably would not get involved in a way that would drastically change the affect of the war. We would hit people who had no place hitting Rose (outside of treaty chains) however, I also stated that they should ask Placentica, as I do not give the final position for Alpha policies. Steve made it very clear to Partisan the next day, and to the rest of tS government of our position. The cited "position" was never an official position, and was clearly stated as such. Also the cited position was prior to Steve giving the official position. If you misled your members with the order of events, I can understand why they are upset with us. You did tell me that I had to contact Steve, and we had extensive talks with him. We kept bugging you because in the lead up of the war, you continued to be ambiguous on what Alpha would do in the scenario where Rose attacked Mensa. After days of 'bugging' (your words, not mine), Steve affirmed that Alpha 'might take a role in the war but that it would not affect the outcome of the war or t$ allies' (who also held a Mensa treaty). SK is a t$ ally. Arguably, SK being taken out by Alpha had a huge impact, as the loss of a mostly unengaged upper tier reserve meant added pressure to all other fronts. SK was also a party that, by Steve's own admission, *did* have business defending Mensa, considering their MDP. Now this does not even touch yet on the fact that you later broke your word: Following your hit on Roz Wei, I made it a point to confirm whether Alpha would limit its involvement to that. Are you really going to force me to pull out the logs where steve explicitly affirms that Alpha will limit its involvement to just Roz Wei? The cited position changed multiple times. We were not informed of your decision to expand your involvement, nor were we aware of your intended hit on SK until you declared war in a joint offensive with UPN entering the fray. To me, it looks like a deliberate move which you only dared to take after it became clear that you would be safeguarded due to UPN's entry (as the expectation at the time was that this would be the nail in our coffin). We have not misled our members. You continue to attempt to mislead them, and they see through your transparent bid. You also continue to make attempts at justifying your betrayal, and it is hilarious to see you flop about. Edited February 18, 2016 by Partisan 7 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prefonteen Posted February 18, 2016 Author Share Posted February 18, 2016 tS was directed to Placentica each time. It is common knowledge that Placentica carries the official position of Alpha. I'll repeat: tS government kept bugging me about our position. I told them before the war kicked off that we probably would not get involved in a way that would drastically change the affect of the war. We would hit people who had no place hitting Rose (outside of treaty chains) however, I also stated that they should ask Placentica, as I do not give the final position for Alpha policies. Steve made it very clear to Partisan the next day, and to the rest of tS government of our position. The cited "position" was never an official position, and was clearly stated as such. Also the cited position was prior to Steve giving the official position. If you misled your members with the order of events, I can understand why they are upset with us. You directing us to Placentica really has no influence on the matter at hand: Steve confirmed that you would limit your involvement. Steve broke that promise and ordered a surprise attack on our ally. You're right: That has nothing to do with you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaaaddd22 Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Alpha's leaderships next words should be "We're sorry. We are !@#$" if it wants to save any credibility or self respect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Armstrong Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 tS government kept bugging me about our position. I told them before the war kicked off that we probably would not get involved in a way that would drastically change the affect of the war. We would hit people who had no place hitting Rose (outside of treaty chains) however, I also stated that they should ask Placentica, as I do not give the final position for Alpha policies. Steve made it very clear to Partisan the next day, and to the rest of tS government of our position. The cited "position" was never an official position, and was clearly stated as such. Also the cited position was prior to Steve giving the official position. If you misled your members with the order of events, I can understand why they are upset with us. This is simply not true. I did speak with you on multiple occasions (more often than not when you started the conversation) and only once Or twice did you mention Steve. You hold a government title and position in Alpha and you need to be held accountable to your word. You put extreme pressure on tS to find a diplomatic solution the the impending war, which for various reasons we were doing and did. However, your alliance's official position when you attack our allies is that our side was the aggressor. It seems now as if you hold no authority in your alliance but walk around acting like you do trying to coerce people to doing what you want them to do and you have no right to call yourself gov. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sailor Jerry Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 ^^^^THIS^^^^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prefontaine Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 You directing us to Placentica really has no influence on the matter at hand: Steve confirmed that you would limit your involvement. Steve broke that promise and ordered a surprise attack on our ally. You're right: That has nothing to do with you. But-- But-- Steve always speaks the truth I have always liked VE. Always. I loved seeing them come here and be the #1 alliance. I like the stability they provide (contrast them with Mensa). I don't like alliances that allow raiding on major alliances and then refuse to offer reps. I never wanted you, as leader, to make them enemies when we were both in Guardian. I even posted about this on the Guardian boards. VE does things like ghost DoW which I strongly believe is good for worlds like these. (taken from: https://politicsandwar.com/forums/index.php?/topic/11078-alpha-announcement/?p=204063 ) [01:50] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> But, I'm sick and tired of the VE bandwagon and this bullshit dancing around Rose. [01:50] <Prefontaine> Where? [01:50] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> I'm not a huge fan of VE. [01:50] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> But, I don't like people being rewarded for that kind of bullshit. [01:50] <Prefontaine> Then hit Rose. [01:51] <Prefontaine> I mean, VE. -snip unrelated- [01:51] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> We aren't hitting VE....hitting VE would be like killing Alpha. [01:51] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> Sure, I know. [01:51] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> I Know you dislike VE. [01:52] <Prefontaine> I don't, actually. [01:52] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> But, a world where Mensa looms large and thinks it can do whatever it wants. [01:52] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> That's a world Alpha dies in. [01:52] <Prefontaine> Got along with them just fine when I was running Guardian. [01:52] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> DEIC prob. wants a piece of us. UPN has no love for us, Mensa as well. [01:52] <Prefontaine> Not as long as Pfeiffer is in charge. [01:52] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> Keeping Rose strong is our play. [01:52] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> Pfeiffer would still roll Alpha. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordRahl2 Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 That dastardly Pfeiffer plotting to hit his close allie's treaty partner... Do you guys even lift? 1 Quote -signature removed for rules violation- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rozalia Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 That stuff from Placentica is no surprise, Mensa has their sort absolutely terrified. Rose apparently have good FA in that they can "win" a lot of people to their side, but in reality Mensa does all the work on that end as every single alliance they have on their side are thinking of Mensa when they sign those treaties. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doktor Avalanche Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 But-- But-- Steve always speaks the truth (taken from: https://politicsandwar.com/forums/index.php?/topic/11078-alpha-announcement/?p=204063 ) Pfeiffer is the Fo in my Foshizzle. 1 Quote Beer. Damn Good Beer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphus Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 (edited) [01:52] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> Keeping Rose strong is our play.Rose can't even keep Rose strong. Excellent job so far. Edited February 18, 2016 by Wilhelm the Demented Quote One must imagine Sisyphus happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegoz Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Rose can't even keep Rose strong. It can though, it just needs to make the right choice 1 Quote [11:52 PM] Prefontaine: But Keegoz is actually bad. [11:52 PM] Prefontaine: He's my favorite bad leader though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buorhann Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 It can though, it just needs to make the right choice Keegoz, brah, c'mon man... c'mon... 1 Quote Warrior of Dio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfPCFQfOnLg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pfeiffer Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 I am going to roll all of Alpha by myself. Steve realizes my true power, and that is why he fears me. Also: [01:52] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> But, a world where Mensa looms large and thinks it can do whatever it wants. You live in that !@#$ing world. Get used to it. Even after I retire, I built a team that knows what the !@#$ they're doing. Our members are, in my opinion, the most mechanically competent in the game. Our allies understand that, despite my shouting all the time, we are loyal to a fault and will never do them dirty. The only thing I'd change is a very small number of our members having a penchant for begging forgiveness rather than asking permission, but that's the cost of doing business and is probably a net benefit to the alliance as a whole because giant gaping !@#$ like Steve see us as "unpredictable" because of the annoyance they cause me. I talk myself and my people up a lot, but we changed this !@#$ing game and since we learned the mechanics of war ~11 months ago our engines are full steam ahead and there are no brakes on this train. CHOO CHOO MOTHA!@#$A 6 Quote ☾☆ Chairman Emeritus of Mensa HQ ☾☆ "It's not about the actual fish, themselves. Fish are not important in this context. It's about fish-ing, the act of fishing itself." -Jack O'Neill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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