Buorhann Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Maybe the reason why Steve hasn't posted since page 4 is because your 8 pages of butthurt is really irrelevant right now. I see Alpha's recruitment is hard at work. Wouldn't have taken you for someone to join an alliance where their word now means shit. 1 1 Quote Warrior of Dio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfPCFQfOnLg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caecus Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 I see Alpha's recruitment is hard at work. Wouldn't have taken you for someone to join an alliance where their word now means shit. I'm flattered that you have (perhaps "had" now) such high esteem for me. But I'm a political realist. Quote It's a useful mental exercise. Through the years, many thinkers have been fascinated by it. But I don't enjoy playing. It was a game that was born during a brutal age when life counted for little. Everyone believed that some people were worth more than others. Kings. Pawns. I don't think that anyone is worth more than anyone else. Chess is just a game. Real people are not pieces. You can't assign more value to some of them and not others. Not to me. Not to anyone. People are not a thing that you can sacrifice. The lesson is, if anyone who looks on to the world as if it was a game of chess, deserves to lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valakias Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Butthurt? Lel, no, just disappointed, but also happy, because we like to know whose allies are really your friends and who is just pretending. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tali Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Butthurt? Lel, no, just disappointed, but also happy, because we like to know whose allies are really your friends and who is just pretending. I'm butthurt you don't speak to me anymore that much D: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valakias Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 I'm butthurt you don't speak to me anymore that much D: Blame RL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fistandantilus Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 I'm butthurt you don't speak to me anymore that much D: He's neglecting me to :*( 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isolatar Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 (edited) Steve's official position was given during a query between him and I following your decision to hit Roz Wei. This position was on the same night confirmed during a continuation of that conversation in which you, Roy, Steve and I were all present. I explicitly asked whether Alpha would stick with just Roz Wei. Steve confirmed. The timestamp of those logs were: Feb 5th. You have between Feb 5th and your attack on SK on Feb 9th, at no point mentioned your intent to expand your involvement and hit SK, nor have you approached t$ for clarification on SK's stance. At the time we had already placed a white peace offer (coalitionwide) on the table for Rose. Something you were aware of since 1 day after the war started. Furthermore, Steve declared on SK while you and I were in a query, and while I had tried to contact him (he ignored my query until after his declaration). There has been no attempt at reconciliation and talks in private channels have shown us that you have no remorse for your actions. Instead you have continuously attempted to justify your actions by trying to spin the events that transpired during the war into a crooked version that fits your narrative. Now you have reverted to a weak attempt at spinning this cancellation as the unfortunate result of a war developing outside of either our control, pushing us to opposite sides. I understand that it is prudent for you to spin in order to mitigate PR damage, but it is too transparent. The truth is that you knew well what you were doing, and that you deliberately failed to inform t$ about your intended strike on SK. A strike which broke your word to t$ in the process, during a war that was arguably none of your business anyway. Your involvement in the war was unfortunate but something we could talk out. The bullshit surrounding it is not. Not as long as you spit in our face with twisted facts, crooked logic and outright lies. You do realise that discussing war counters can happen in less than four days, right? Edited February 24, 2016 by Isolatar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isolatar Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Butthurt? Lel, no, just disappointed, but also happy, because we like to know whose allies are really your friends and who is just pretending. A lot of tS' posts in this thread would disagree with your assumption that you're just "disappointed". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valakias Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 A lot of tS' posts in this thread would disagree with your assumption that you're just "disappointed". Membership is wide and tall, we are not the borg ;p. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy Mustang Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 You do realise that discussing war counters can happen in less than four days, right? Uh, yeah, we're quite aware of that, having been on the defensive our fair share of times. That doesn't rebut a single thing Partisan said in his post. I give your post an F. Please make a cogent argument supported by fact or reasonable logic, and re-submit for partial credit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isolatar Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 As Partisan said, Steve told Partisan that he would only hit Roz Wei on the 5th. Over the next couple days, the coalition needed Alpha to hit SK to help alleviate pressure off of Rose. They could have told you they were going to hit SK but what's the point? So you could tell Tenages that Alpha were going to hit them on the Xth so they can get prepared? Let's not act as if tS wouldn't have done the same in Alpha's situation. Furthermore, an intel clause is a two way thing. You guys could have told Steve that your whole sphere was going to come crashing down on Rose, meaning Alpha would be in some sort of danger. Hypocritical much? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prefonteen Posted February 24, 2016 Author Share Posted February 24, 2016 (edited) As Partisan said, Steve told Partisan that he would only hit Roz Wei on the 5th. Over the next couple days, the coalition needed Alpha to hit SK to help alleviate pressure off of Rose. They could have told you they were going to hit SK but what's the point? So you could tell Tenages that Alpha were going to hit them on the Xth so they can get prepared? Let's not act as if tS wouldn't have done the same in Alpha's situation. Furthermore, an intel clause is a two way thing. You guys could have told Steve that your whole sphere was going to come crashing down on Rose, meaning Alpha would be in some sort of danger. Hypocritical much? So you're saying that Alpha was in Rose's coalition the entire time? Alpha explicitly told me during that period that they were not in the coalition, nor in any coalition channels... EDIT: Didn't you quit? Why are you still on trying to do Alpha's PR for them? Edited February 24, 2016 by Partisan 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boony Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 They could have told you they were going to hit SK but what's the point? ... Let's not act as if tS wouldn't have done the same in Alpha's situation. A) We were allies. That's the point. We wouldn't have. I can't comment on the rest of your post as I don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isolatar Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 So you're saying that Alpha was in Rose's coalition the entire time? Alpha explicitly told me during that period that they were not in the coalition, nor in any coalition channels... EDIT: Didn't you quit? Why are you still on trying to do Alpha's PR for them? Blame the dicks on IRC Alpha could have been in no one's coalition. But the intel clause still stands. They could have told you about them hitting SK and you could have told them about everyone hitting Rose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rozalia Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Blame the dicks on IRC Alpha could have been in no one's coalition. But the intel clause still stands. They could have told you about them hitting SK and you could have told them about everyone hitting Rose. That is the same intel clause Alpha's second in command referred to as an annoyance. As Partisan said, Steve told Partisan that he would only hit Roz Wei on the 5th. Over the next couple days, the coalition needed Alpha to hit SK to help alleviate pressure off of Rose. They could have told you they were going to hit SK but what's the point? So you could tell Tenages that Alpha were going to hit them on the Xth so they can get prepared? Let's not act as if tS wouldn't have done the same in Alpha's situation. Furthermore, an intel clause is a two way thing. You guys could have told Steve that your whole sphere was going to come crashing down on Rose, meaning Alpha would be in some sort of danger. Hypocritical much? Yup that was why it happened. As ever however they couldn't resist adding unneeded spin in the "SK declared war on everybody!" nonsense thereby embarrassing themselves (further). So tS should have laid everything out to Alpha in full detail, but it was completely pointless (thereby fine) for Alpha to tell tS anything? Alright, sounds balanced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valakias Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 They are running out of PR peoples to spin this around, but keep trying guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isolatar Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 That is the same intel clause Alpha's second in command referred to as an annoyance. Yup that was why it happened. As ever however they couldn't resist adding unneeded spin in the "SK declared war on everybody!" nonsense thereby embarrassing themselves (further). So tS should have laid everything out to Alpha in full detail, but it was completely pointless (thereby fine) for Alpha to tell tS anything? Alright, sounds balanced. 1) Intel clauses are a !@#$ to deal with if you're connected to two sphere leaders. 2) I have not referred to the vagueness SK's declaration of war at all. You're just trying to "spin" it so people will become anti Alpha after what they've done to the "alliance" you're currently in. But that's fine, we all live in our own world and are entitled to our opinion. 3) Respect is a two way thing. You give respect, you get respect. tS/Alpha respecting each other's alliance is a completely different thing but the principle still stands. Chances are, if tS had laid everything down, James/Steve would have done everything they could to stop it, like they would have done if the situation was reversed. Now, don't take this as me blaming tS for SK being hit. I'm just a neutral bypasser. They are running out of PR peoples to spin this around, but keep trying guys! I'm not a PR guy, I'm Iso Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy Mustang Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 As Partisan said, Steve told Partisan that he would only hit Roz Wei on the 5th. Over the next couple days, the coalition needed Alpha to hit SK to help alleviate pressure off of Rose. They could have told you they were going to hit SK but what's the point? So you could tell Tenages that Alpha were going to hit them on the Xth so they can get prepared? Let's not act as if tS wouldn't have done the same in Alpha's situation. Furthermore, an intel clause is a two way thing. You guys could have told Steve that your whole sphere was going to come crashing down on Rose, meaning Alpha would be in some sort of danger. Hypocritical much? I mean, if that were the concern, they could have just said something vague, like "our role in Rose's coalition needs to expand". Alternatively, they could have told us shortly before the hit (as Partisan has already alluded to, he was literally in query with James at the time of declaration, and had been ignored by Steve until after the declaration). A 5-minute heads up would have done precisely nothing to help SK's response time, but would certainly have helped alleviate the lack of communication we've cited here. As far as the whole sphere crashing down on Rose, it was made very clear to both Rose and Alpha that Mensa's allies intended to defend if Rose took the offensive. While there were two oAs, they weren't in Alpha's range, and we took every particular pain to keep the scope of the conflict narrow. No pre-empts, etc etc. The bulk of the devastation that was visited upon Rose came from Mensa's direct treaty partners (by virtue of sheer numbers, if nothing else). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buorhann Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 I'm flattered that you have (perhaps "had" now) such high esteem for me. But I'm a political realist. Then you definitely joined them at an interesting time. 1 Quote Warrior of Dio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfPCFQfOnLg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isolatar Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 (edited) We both know the guys over in Alpha are pretty loyal. They even oA'd in the TC-tS war to help your upper tier. They've proven that they will defend their allies. Now, I have no idea if any alliance declared war on you but I'm pretty sure they will always defend their allies, no matter who that alliance is allied to. Edited February 24, 2016 by Isolatar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Prefonteen Posted February 24, 2016 Author Popular Post Share Posted February 24, 2016 (edited) 1) Intel clauses are a !@#$ to deal with if you're connected to two sphere leaders. 2) I have not referred to the vagueness SK's declaration of war at all. You're just trying to "spin" it so people will become anti Alpha after what they've done to the "alliance" you're currently in. But that's fine, we all live in our own world and are entitled to our opinion. 3) Respect is a two way thing. You give respect, you get respect. tS/Alpha respecting each other's alliance is a completely different thing but the principle still stands. Chances are, if tS had laid everything down, James/Steve would have done everything they could to stop it, like they would have done if the situation was reversed. Now, don't take this as me blaming tS for SK being hit. I'm just a neutral bypasser. I'm not a PR guy, I'm Iso We have rehashed this many times, but for your sake- let's do it again. What has t$ done in hopes of settling a diplomatic solution prior to Rose's hit on Mensa? - We communicated with Alpha throughout, working with them to try and find a suitable agreement. - We communicated with Rose and attempted to find common ground. A solution was pitched where Rose would take on Mensa 1v1. This solution was backed by Mensa (who was more than cooperative in the matter and did not want to force its allies to burn for them). This solution was also backed by Alpha at the time. It was rejected by Rose. - We straight up asked Rose what they wanted out of this: What diplomatic solution they would deem appropriate. The only response we received was that Mensa had to burn. No request for reps or any other concession was made. - Throughout, we were continuously pressured by various parties to remain on the sidelines and allow Rose + coalition to hit Mensa. - We made it abundantly clear to Alpha that if no diplomatic solution was agreed upon, and that if Rose attack Mensa, the $yndicate would be forced to defend Mensa. - We also made abundantly clear that the situation put us in a position where we would walk into a treaty trap of sorts (with Rose being hit, VE countering, and UPN countering any counters). That concern was ignored, and Alpha went as far as to hint that they would enter on Rose's side 'in a way that would not affect the outcome of the war, and would not affect t$ or its direct allies'. Now, consider the situation: We are about to be forced into a war that could have easily been avoided, had support been pulled pre-emptively. Diplomatic solutions were offered and we specifically asked for what Rose wished for, upon that we could look at whether it was viable to go that route. We had no idea what Covenant (UPN) would do, and therefore relied on the assumption that VE was protected. Should we have willingly compromised our entire sphere, for the sake of allowing Alpha to diplomatically protect the aggressor in this war, at the cost of its other ally? The moment Alpha informed us they would enter regardless, we made the call to go this route. Following our blitz, 1 day into the war, we again put an offer of global white peace on the table. Alpha was again informed and asked to help mediate. Rose informed us that it seemed okay, but they had to 'check with the coalition'. It ook 4 days for them to get back to us, and they only did so after the SK hit on NAC. At that point, we were informed that 'because of SK hitting NAC, other parties are involved and its no longer in our hands'. Dialing back a little: So throughout the conflict, whether it looked like we were going to lose (initially) or win (following the Rose blitz), we worked to attempt and mediate peace. Despite continuous escalation on both sides. When Alpha made the decision to hit Roz Wei, we were not thrilled, but we ultimately accepted it as them doing what they believe was right: It was supported by their rhetoric throughout, and seemed in-line with what we were expecting from them based on our interactions. We do not fault them for that declaration. And yes, at the time tensions eased a bit. A few days later, coinciding with UPN's entry into the war due to the NAC treaty trigger, Alpha launches a surprise assault on a major t$ ally (SK), its CB being based on the premise that SK would have supposedly declared war on the entire coalition: A premise that is easily refuted by the very wording of the DoW, and the fact that SK launched no wars beyond NAC. This was done without informing t$, and after Alpha had assured t$ that its involvement would remain limited to Roz Wei. You speak of respect, and Alpha's actions supposedly having been affected by $yndicate disrespecting its alliance with Alpha. Put your historical allegiance to Rose (and therefore your general bias) aside for a second, and tell me this: Where in this scenario has the $yndicate severely disrespected Alpha to the point where it warranted Alpha's entry on SK on flimsy premises, and its word to an ally being broken? Alpha made a conscious choice to fully immerse itself in Rose's coalition, and did so at the expense of the $yndicate, while attempting to tow the lines, minimize damage to itself and set itself up for the post-war. Interestingly enough, I now hear rumors of Alpha shittalking t$ and throwing out crooked narratives in backchannels, while being 'respectful' in public. That is a game I refuse to play. My perception and my cards are out in the open. I welcome Steve and James to do the same. Or could it be that that wouldn't be viable, given that their story lacks factual evidence? I'll be waiting. Edited February 24, 2016 by Partisan 11 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isolatar Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 That looks like a shit ton to read on my phone so I'll reply tomorrow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
丂ħ̧i̧₣ɫ̵γ͘ ̶™ Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 (edited) This entire thread: Edited February 25, 2016 by Shifty Stranger 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy Mustang Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 This entire thread: James, you liked this post. I do not think it means what you think it means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurdanak Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 (edited) James, you liked this post. I do not think it means what you think it means.Personally, I see it going both ways. 20 pages here we come? >_> Edited February 25, 2016 by Kurdanak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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