Discovering the Past Through Primary Sources

[Vincent]

Isnt it funny when we see people from SK complaining about how DEIC betrayed them?.

 

Sk members indeed have short memories. Have they forgotten how they plotted to use Rose for their own agenda only to plan on rolling Rose when the objective is achieved?.

 

Yet now they have the guts to complain about otheers betraying the treaty signed?..oh come on. Give me a break. Enough of the kettle complaining about the pot being black.

[Boony]

Isnt it funny when we see people from SK complaining about how DEIC betrayed them?.

 

Sk members indeed have short memories. Have they forgotten how they plotted to use Rose for their own agenda only to plan on rolling Rose when the objective is achieved?.

 

Yet now they have the guts to complain about otheers betraying the treaty signed?..oh come on. Give me a break. Enough of the kettle complaining about the pot being black.

If you read any of the posts, you'll know SK and Rose didn't have a treaty.

[Spooner]

Isnt it funny when we see people from SK complaining about how DEIC betrayed them?.

 

Sk members indeed have short memories. Have they forgotten how they plotted to use Rose for their own agenda only to plan on rolling Rose when the objective is achieved?.

 

Yet now they have the guts to complain about otheers betraying the treaty signed?..oh come on. Give me a break. Enough of the kettle complaining about the pot being black.

 

Coordinating to destroy a common enemy then attacking each other =/= attacking a signed ally

 

You can't be this dense.

[Vincent]

Treaty or not. They are part of the same group. Unless you are saying it is okay to turn against your own coalition member after using them?

[Vincent]

Coordinating to destroy a common enemy then attacking each other =/= attacking a signed ally

 

 

 

You can't be this dense.

Sorry you meant someone against your common enermy. Then at the same time plotting to get another one to get rid of the someone you used earlier?

 

Oh how much lower can you get?

[Jon Snow]

Treaty or not. They are part of the same group. Unless you are saying it is okay to turn against your own coalition member after using them?

 

So...kinda like UPN attacking tS right now?

 

edit: and yes even though UPN did not get chained in, they were in the coalition talks. I'm sure someone can post logs if they wanted to.

Edited October 17, 2015 by Jon Snow

[Eumirbago]

Treaty or not. They are part of the same group. Unless you are saying it is okay to turn against your own coalition member after using them?

 

lel

[Vincent]

So...kinda like UPN attacking tS right now?

Not really. UPN didnt plot to get someone else to roll Ts unlike SK plotting to get someone rolling Rose after using Rose against VR

[Vincent]

So...kinda like UPN attacking tS right now?

Not really. UPN didnt plot to get someone else to roll Ts unlike SK plotting to get someone rolling Rose after using Rose against VE

[Hiroshima]

It's almost like this war is about cementing tC's hegemoney...

[Saru]

So...kinda like UPN attacking tS right now?

 

edit: and yes even though UPN did not get chained in, they were in the coalition talks. I'm sure someone can post logs if they wanted to.

 

Myself and Hansarius made it clear that we weren't apart of the coalition several times. One of our government members used to hang out in Mensa's allied chat, where some of the conversations took place, but that's pretty much it. We made it clear that our interests were with our allies, not any other alliances in the "coalition". And if I recall correctly, we communicated the same to tS too... that they shouldn't expect any favours from us.

Edited October 17, 2015 by Saru

[Roy Mustang]

Not really. UPN didnt plot to get someone else to roll Ts unlike SK plotting to get someone rolling Rose after using Rose against VE

 

You're right, they didn't plot. They executed. And I must say, as the super clever ebil plotter I must be according to you, I'm impressed. +10 conniving points to UPN for that move. We honestly have no issue with what they did, and are fairly impressed thereby. We do take issue with the false rationale they've been providing. They hit us because we were a threat. Got it, sweet. They didn't hit us because we were plotting though, because we weren't plotting. Shocker, I know.

 

But we've digressed. I thought we were discussing the fact that an exemption from a defense clause still doesn't permit an alliance to attack their ally. But hey. If I were SK leadership, I'd be furious. If it were me, I'd consider the treaty void right this moment. But, that's just me.

[Ayayay]

Forget the treaty rules, how about having some basic courtesy for your ally? 

The treatise's suspended so they aren't an ally right now. Once peace is declared they get to be allies again.

 

o/ E-Lawyering

[Prefonteen]

Myself and Hansarius made it clear that we weren't apart of the coalition several times. One of our government members used to hang out in Mensa's allied chat, where some of the conversations took place, but that's pretty much it. We made it clear that our interests were with our allies, not any other alliances in the "coalition". And if I recall correctly, we communicated the same to tS too... that they shouldn't expect any favours from us.

 

That government member reassured us on several occasions that you were supporting Mensa entirely  on their war effort. We expected no favors from you. One of the reasons we managed to turn the tides of the war despite your deliberate attempt at directing damage against us was because we took the possibility of you doing so into account, and made proper precautions. That does not however, mean that we were either lied to or misinformed.

 

The fact that your government continuously fails to be consistent in the messages it delivers to foreign entities is not our problem. It is yours.

[Vincent]

You're right, they didn't plot. They executed. And I must say, as the super clever ebil plotter I must be according to you, I'm impressed. +10 conniving points to UPN for that move. We honestly have no issue with what they did, and are fairly impressed thereby. We do take issue with the false rationale they've been providing. They hit us because we were a threat. Got it, sweet. They didn't hit us because we were plotting though, because we weren't plotting. Shocker, I know.

 

But we've digressed. I thought we were discussing the fact that an exemption from a defense clause still doesn't permit an alliance to attack their ally. But hey. If I were SK leadership, I'd be furious. If it were me, I'd consider the treaty void right this moment. But, that's just me.

How on earth you have an ally when the treaty itself is suspended?

[Saru]

That government member reassured us on several occasions that you were supporting Mensa entirely  on their war effort. We expected no favors from you. One of the reasons we managed to turn the tides of the war despite your deliberate attempt at directing damage against us was because we took the possibility of you doing so into account, and made proper precautions. That does not however, mean that we were either lied to or misinformed.

 

The fact that your government continuously fails to be consistent in the messages it delivers to foreign entities is not our problem. It is yours.

 

We supported Mensa in their war effort. And I don't think Mensa will deny that. We said that we will counter anyone who attacks them, and through that gained them an advantage. It was made clear to you that we would support our allies, not any other alliances in the coalition, particularly tS. As for your point about us deliberately directing damage against you... we weren't involved in the planning of the war against you, and didn't intervene on that front whatsoever -- had we wanted to complicated matters there, we could of, but it wasn't something we were particularly interested in. So did we deliberately try to deflect damage onto you? No. Did we try to deflect damage off Mensa? Yes. Did we care that tS may get smashed? Nope. 

[Prefonteen]

We supported Mensa in their war effort. And I don't think Mensa will deny that. We said that we will counter anyone who attacks them, and through that gained them an advantage. It was made clear to you that we would support our allies, not any other alliances in the coalition, particularly tS. As for your point about us deliberately directing damage against you... we weren't involved in the planning of the war against you, and didn't intervene on that front whatsoever -- had we wanted to complicated matters there, we could of, but it wasn't something we were particularly interested in. So did we deliberately try to deflect damage onto you? No. Did we try to deflect damage off Mensa? Yes. Did we care that tS may get smashed? Nope. 

 

I'm going to leave this here, since once again you are either lying through your teeth, or your government has failed to properly communicate internally. The following logs are excerpts from the period leading up to the tS involvement in the last war. Prior to the Rose pre-empt, UPN representative Ole clearly assured us on various occasions that UPN was going to fight on Mensa's side regardless of the situation. The following logs are chronological:

 

 

[22:30] <Ole[uPN]> hey 

[22:30] <Ole[uPN]> if we are to take roses upper tier we'll need some of you to come along

[22:30] <Ole[uPN]> im still squaring things with Robster tho 

01[22:31] <Partisan> That's okay. Are Robster/Hans ok in working with us?

[22:31] <Ole[uPN]> yeah it'll be okai : )

01[22:32] <Partisan> Sweet. I'm confident we can put out a good showing.

01[22:32] <Partisan> tS is more prepared than we were last war

[22:32] <Ole[uPN]> awesome : ) so are we

01[22:33] <Partisan> So, as I understand it tS' main target is VE, and we are to cross-coordinate the supertier?

[22:33] <Ole[uPN]> even tho we are lagging slightly behind

[22:34] <Ole[uPN]> something like that yes

[22:34] <Ole[uPN]> i still not sure about the details 

01[22:35] <Partisan> Yeah

01[22:35] <Partisan> I just got on. I'll be up some hours now to get shit figured out

[22:35] <Ole[uPN]> nice 

[22:35] <Ole[uPN]> i'll try and get the purple ducks in a row

 

 

[15:20] <Ole[uPN]> well, If Robster cant fix the Deic Problem, id say that UPN and SK will have to deal with Rose and if Cobalt wants to tag along sure

01[15:21] <Partisan> Tough matchup. That would definitely require Mensa to shift your way too

01[15:21] <Partisan> they will still have fighting capacity

[15:21] <Ole[uPN]> then Guardian and tS along with whome ever, takes on VE, and Mensa just helps out all over

01[15:21] <Partisan> and with a little luck, Rose DoW's tS

01[15:21] <Partisan> at which point we can swap over when we need to

[15:21] <Ole[uPN]> that would be ideal 

 

 

01[11:03] <Partisan> yo

[11:48] <Ole[uPN]> hei 

01[11:49] <Partisan> So, i'm hearing word that Saru is trying to steer this thing into tS-Guardian.

01[11:49] <Partisan> And that they signed off on VE/Rose crashing into tS-Guardian while leaving Mensa on the side

01[11:50] <Partisan> It might be misinformation from Abbas, but I got to verify

[11:50] <Ole[uPN]> yeah, no 

[11:50] <Ole[uPN]> that might be beacuse i leaked that thru Kastor too Carter and Abbas

01[11:50] <Partisan> LOL

01[11:51] <Partisan> Okay, that's all I needed. I trust you

[11:51] <Ole[uPN]> that we wanted to Roll tS as soon as you got hit

01[11:51] <Partisan> So i'm going to play along and act concerned

[11:51] <Ole[uPN]> i sent you the screenshot 

[11:51] <Ole[uPN]> also good

01[11:51] <Partisan> Yeah i'm not sure if it refers to that

[11:51] <Ole[uPN]> i also hinted the same shit to Adama 

[11:51] <Ole[uPN]> dunno 

 

 

01[22:51] <Partisan> Uhh wat

01[22:51] <Partisan> I thought it was resolved, at least to the extent of: 'DEIC won't hit any allies who hit Rose'?

[22:52] <Ole[uPN]> we're working on it : / 

[22:53] <Ole[uPN]> its mostly Robsters show, as he and Deic goes wayyy back

01[22:53] <Partisan> So what's going on right now? At least, what's the hold up specifically?

[22:56] <Ole[uPN]> Their pissed at us for not sharing intel earlyer and they dont want us to go in

[22:56] <Ole[uPN]> this is between us ofc

01[22:57] <Partisan> What..

[22:57] <Ole[uPN]> but we'll work it out, and if it becomes neccessary we wont leave you out to dry 

[22:57] <Ole[uPN]> we'll go in 

 

 

Despite these promises, you later began backtracking and claiming that you would only defend Mensa, as opposed to fighting a coalition-wide effort. One can only suspect that the reasoning is rooted in your grudge for tS.

 

Now some may claim that Ole 'did not speak for UPN. The following logs clearly show that Ole was the designated representative to us, on behalf of UPN government.

 

(referring to Hans):

 

01[01:04] <Partisan|tS> I should probably get in touch with him as well shouldn't I? Haha

[01:06] <Ole[uPN]> nah, he might still be grumpy at you, 

01[01:06] <Partisan|tS> Fair enough

 

[14:08] <Ole[uPN]> Tbh i have no idea, Robster and Hans mostly deals with our tC allies, and i run around playing with you guys ^^

01[14:12] <Partisan> lol

01[14:12] <Partisan> You pulled the short straw hehe

[14:12] <Ole[uPN]> hehe well im the new guy you know

01[14:17] <Partisan> Ha

 

 

 

As I mentioned before: Your continuous attempts at spinning reality are laughable at best. You did not 'claim from scratch that you would only defend Mena'. You did engage in coalition-wide diplomacy with your ally and their allies (regardless of our past) on good faith, and backed away from your commitments when it was already too late to alter course. You did, via your stance, your backroom diplomacy with VE and various other parties, steer the damage of that war onto tS and Guardian, as we suspected and confronted your representative with. You lied about it, and have now turned around to attack us again.

 

Your reason for war is fine- calling us a rival and acting on that is fine. Deliberately putting out a series of false notions in order to discredit us is not, and we will counter you with facts every time you do so.

Edited October 18, 2015 by Partisan

[Sisyphus]

GUTS BEFORE GLORY

Sounds more like a shit MoD.

 

Sk members indeed have short memories. Have they forgotten how they plotted to use Rose for their own agenda only to plan on rolling Rose when the objective is achieved?.

We didn't have nor intended on signing an MDP with Rose and that wasn't our own agenda-that was an agenda Rose shared with us at the time. Edited October 18, 2015 by Wilhelm the Demented

[Kastor]

I'm going to leave this here, since once again you are either lying through your teeth, or your government has failed to properly communicate internally. The following logs are excerpts from the period leading up to the tS involvement in the last war. Prior to the Rose pre-empt, UPN representative Ole clearly assured us on various occasions that UPN was going to fight on Mensa's side regardless of the situation. The following logs are chronological:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Despite these promises, you later began backtracking and claiming that you would only defend Mensa, as opposed to fighting a coalition-wide effort. One can only suspect that the reasoning is rooted in your grudge for tS.

 

Now some may claim that Ole 'did not speak for UPN. The following logs clearly show that Ole was the designated representative to us, on behalf of UPN government.

 

(referring to Hans):

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As I mentioned before: Your continuous attempts at spinning reality are laughable at best. You did not 'claim from scratch that you would only defend Mena'. You did engage in coalition-wide diplomacy with your ally and their allies (regardless of our past) on good faith, and backed away from your commitments when it was already too late to alter course. You did, via your stance, your backroom diplomacy with VE and various other parties, steer the damage of that war onto tS and Guardian, as we suspected and confronted your representative with. You lied about it, and have now turned around to attack us again.

 

Your reason for war is fine- calling us a rival and acting on that is fine. Deliberately putting out a series of false notions in order to discredit us is not, and we will counter you with facts every time you do so.

I remember helping Ole with that.

[Saru]

---

 

Me and Hans stayed consistent throughout. I am sure Mensa HQ/Pfeiffer can testify to that. Just because you found a buddy who was operating on his own without the sanction of the government doesn't mean that was the policy of the alliance as a whole.

 

If I recall correctly, you came to me to talk about the war, and I clarified our position very clearly to you. You knew full well who was calling the shots in UPN at the time, so don't act purposely obtuse.

[Bilal the Great]

DEIC acting like dick as usual. Ever since the days of the beta.

[Prefonteen]

Me and Hans stayed consistent throughout. I am sure Mensa HQ/Pfeiffer can testify to that. Just because you found a buddy who was operating on his own without the sanction of the government doesn't mean that was the policy of the alliance as a whole.

 

If I recall correctly, you came to me to talk about the war, and I clarified our position very clearly to you. You knew full well who was calling the shots in UPN at the time, so don't act purposely obtuse.

 

This 'buddy' has been listed as high government of UPN for a while now. We have therefore taken his words at the time at face value. Again, your government's inability to properly communicate internally is your problem. Not ours. 

 

You are correct that I came to you to talk about the war. This was *after* the logs above, and *after* it was already too late to alter events. If I recall correctly, it was *after* Rose pre-empted The Syndicate. Prior to that, there we little to no communications between you and myself.

 

So have you deliberately lied to us, or has your government simply been incapable of synchronizing its stance? Why did you authorize your government member to begin planning fronts alongside tS (The snippets you see are a component of a variety of logs in which coalition plans are made) if you were never intent on going any further than strictly defending Mensa?

[Saru]

This 'buddy' has been listed as high government of UPN for a while now. We have therefore taken his words at the time at face value. Again, your government's inability to properly communicate internally is your problem. Not ours. 

 

You are correct that I came to you to talk about the war. This was *after* the logs above, and *after* it was already too late to alter events. If I recall correctly, it was *after* Rose pre-empted The Syndicate. Prior to that, there we little to no communications between you and myself.

 

So have you deliberately lied to us, or has your government simply been incapable of synchronizing its stance? Why did you authorize your government member to begin planning fronts alongside tS (The snippets you see are a component of a variety of logs in which coalition plans are made) if you were never intent on going any further than strictly defending Mensa?

 

I take it you just respond without reading. If you had read, then you would of had the answers to your questions -- which you already knew.

 

He acted on his own accord, and was warned against doing specifically that (for this very reason, because I had warned him that you are a snake in the grass and would sell him out as soon as you got the chance.) Like I said we had made our official stance clear to Mensa, and the rest of our allies. It was public knowledge by that point that we will only join if our allies get countered.

 

If it's something you don't believe, then query Pfeiffer, and if he is willing to be honest, he will let you know that I made it clear that I didn't want to be apart of the coalition channels, because we did not see ourselves apart of the coalition. When I spoke to Pfeiffer and Ole about the said channel, they said to me that it was moreso a channel where Mensa's allies hang out, than an official coalition channel.

 

Anyway, you know full well that UPN's stance official wasn't reflected by Ole's opinions. You were just glad you found someone naive enough to try and use for your own ends.

[Kadin]

So UPN gov doesn't even know what's going on in their own alliance, and that's somehow Partisan's fault? Give me a break.

[Buorhann]

C'mon Kadin, go easy on your past ally.