Discovering the Past Through Primary Sources

[Kadin]

If you are rooting for anyside in a war are you sure you are neutral?

Good?...oh i see good in shit posting you mean?

[Tenages]

There is a clause in the DEIC,SK treaty which states the treaty is suspended if an ally of either alliance attacks either alliance or an ally of that alliance.I didn't put it there but i follow that clause so we are under no obligation to defend SK and unless you missed it we have not DOW on SK,Also it is well known that SK will defend an ally if someone attacks them regardless of the treaties held

 

That's not quite what the clause says. Who our allies attack is irrelevant, it doesn't activate the clause. It only matters what SK and DEIC do. The clause is suspended when one of us attacks an ally of the other. I.E if SK hit Cobalt it would be suspended, but if tS hit DEIC it wouldn't be suspended, and SK would be obligated to defend DEIC.

 

To move out of the realm of hypotheticals, and apply it to this scenario, the clause is not suspended because UPN hit SK. It's suspended because DEIC hit tS.  

 

The net result is the same of course, the treaty is suspended. But in the interest of retaining a modicum of accuracy amongst all the spinning, it's suspended because of proactive steps you took to ensure it would be suspended, and that it wouldn't bind you to defend SK -- UPN hitting SK had absolutely nothing to do with the text of the treaty. You took a clause intended to protect whichever signatory  didn't start a war, and realized if executed properly, it would in fact also exempt the attacking alliance from the MD clause. Well done.

 

I'm not attacking you for your decision, or disparaging it, it was the obviously correct tactical move once you decided to support UPN. It's one that I think no one is suprised that you took. I'm just clarifying what actually happened.

 

Have fun and enjoy the war stetonic.

 

For the curious, the text of the article in question from the treaty.

 

"Article IV

Should either of the Signatories aggressively attack an ally of the other, this treaty is suspended for the duration of the conflict."

 

Full Treaty

Edited October 17, 2015 by Tenages

[Placentica]

You all complain that DEIC deos nothing in the game.Then when we go to war you want a 20 page !@#$ essay explaining why.Wish you would make your minds up

Yea, that's not what people are saying.  DEIC lack of presence in this thread kind of proves that point.

 

You are technically required to defend a MDP partner over oA, a chained oA at that.  Not doing so is the reason most people think DEIC doesn't honor it's MDP pacts.  Once, you could argue was just a situation, but this is the 2nd time now, and that's a trend.

 

I don't have a bet in this game, but lets call a spade a spade.  Only your TC allies matter and all others might as well drop you or not bother signing with you.

[Kastor]

My only complaint is that Arthur James isnt fighting.

[Malichy]

My only complaint is that Arthur James isnt fighting.

My complaint is that your forum profile still says your in UPN.

[Kastor]

My complaint is that your forum profile still says your in UPN.

I should really get around to changing it.

[Hooves]

Look, DEIC, I appreciate the love you've shown me in sending 2 guys on me. But, you know, why did you send guys with 1/12th of my military simply to lose? That's a bit mean to the newbies.

Edited October 17, 2015 by Hooves

[Cody K]

DEIC, can you explain why one of your members declared war on an SK nation? Participating in the planning of an attack on your treaty partner isn't enough? Do you now feel it is necessary to get directly involved? 

[Hooves]

DEIC, can you explain why one of your members declared war on an SK nation? Participating in the planning of an attack on your treaty partner isn't enough? Do you now feel it is necessary to get directly involved? 

You wanna know the worst part of that? It's Clarke doing it as well.

[Aisha Greyjoy]

Declaring aggressive wars against an MDP partner?  By Sheepy's beard, that's low!

 

Every alliance I respect in this game and consider my back up when I've finally had it with Tenages drunken groping turns out to be shitty.  First TeST with the side-switch last war.  Now DEIC.  I understand UPN is your primary ally, and you're not joining a war on the other side.

 

At least have the decency to warn us "Hey, we think someone is coming for SK" and then at least don't directly attack us.

 

What kind of an ally attacks their ally in the midst of a huge gangbang where their side already has a huge strength advantage?

[stetonic]

Look, DEIC, I appreciate the love you've shown me in sending 2 guys on me. But, you know, why did you send guys with 1/12th of my military simply to lose? That's a bit mean to the newbies.

 

GUTS BEFORE GLORY

[Clarke]

Declaring aggressive wars against an MDP partner?  By Sheepy's beard, that's low!

 

Every alliance I respect in this game and consider my back up when I've finally had it with Tenages drunken groping turns out to be shitty.  First TeST with the side-switch last war.  Now DEIC.  I understand UPN is your primary ally, and you're not joining a war on the other side.

 

At least have the decency to warn us "Hey, we think someone is coming for SK" and then at least don't directly attack us.

 

What kind of an ally attacks their ally in the midst of a huge gangbang where their side already has a huge strength advantage?

 

Your government put a clause into the treaty that would allow SK who was the major power force at the time to attack The Dutch East India Company if it was vital to attack DEIC in order to win a war.

That clause suspends the treaty if either of us attacks the ally of the other.

 

No one who writes a stupid clause like that is a good ally. 

The treaty was designed to be flawed and Seven Kingdoms knows exactly it was BS clause, those that wrote it anyway. 

You never had DEIC's back, SK just wanted DEIC as backup plan if certain situations were to occur at that time but still be able to roll us if required. 

 

I apologize to Seven Kingdom members who thought the treaty was mutual between us but ultimately your government only ever considered us as a backup plan to be used for their agendas which they tried to do in the war they got rolled in. 

Oh and who the hell writes a MDP treaty with no intel clause.

Edited October 17, 2015 by Clarke

[Wayne]

Your government put a clause into the treaty that would allow SK who was the major power force at the time to attack The Dutch East India Company if it was vital to attack DEIC in order to win a war.

That clause suspends the treaty if either of us attacks the ally of the other.

 

No one who writes a stupid clause like that is a good ally. 

The treaty was designed to be flawed and Seven Kingdoms knows exactly it was BS clause, those that wrote it anyway. 

You never had DEIC's back, SK just wanted DEIC as backup plan if certain situations were to occur at that time but still be able to roll us if required. 

 

I apologize to Seven Kingdom members who thought the treaty was mutual between us but ultimately your government only ever considered us as a backup plan to be used for their agendas which they tried to do in the war they got rolled in. 

Oh and who the hell writes a MDP treaty with no intel clause.

 

Why bother signing such a treaty if you don't like it?

[Clarke]

I was not a member of The Dutch East India Company at the time, the nation who reviewed the treaty for DEIC left the game as well. 

[Wayne]

I was not a member of The Dutch East India Company at the time, the nation who reviewed the treaty for DEIC left the game as well. 

 

You are the leader now, could you not have tried to change it or drop it?

[Clarke]

You are the leader now, could you not have tried to change it or drop it?

I told SK a few weeks ago that the treaty is pretty weak, they acknowledged that it is weak.

Had this not occurred we might of down the line as long as they were down for it. 

[Aerys Targaryen]

Here is the thing that bothers me (and possibly others Clarke), you claim its a faulty MDP. Then you should've cancelled it, instead you kept it and used it as an element of surprise. What is more, well, you guys are attacking your ex-ally without even declaring a war on them.

[Bollocks]

Wow, DEIC is directly attacking SK now? While people talk shit about you all the time, I honestly didn't think you'd stoop to such lows.

[Jaime Lannister]

Real low.  The justifications even lower.

[Arthur James]

it has been explained bcos we side withTC in the war on TS, TEST

Edited October 17, 2015 by Arthur James

[Charles Bolivar]

The treaty has a clause allowing members of each alliance involved to attack each other? No way?

[Arthur Wellington]

The treaty has a clause allowing members of each alliance involved to attack each other? No way?

It actually does. That makes it a weird treaty perhaps but there you have it...

[Vincent]

What i saw is a bunch of loser in game crying out in the forums that they are being rolled and is not fair or justified to roll them.

[Samdoo]

Wow talk about a crappy way to pause a treaty that should have been simply canceled due to the recent color changes... I mean UPN posted their DoW 3 minutes before yours, Technically you should be following through with the MDP. Instead you attack their ally after they have been attacked to pause the treaty for the length of the war that UPN just started. 

 

Talk about just letting UPN run your bloc, to the point where this isn`t your first time now where you have "paused" a MDP. Clearly UPN is the ally you care about and any other treaty is meaningless. 

 

This isn`t even the fact that some of your members have declared on SK too. I mean at least try to make it look like you have some respect for someone other than just UPN. 

[Ole]

o/ DEIC 

 

you've got all my love <3