Sailor Jerry Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 First off, what is the spy formula......and how do larger nations still have an advantage. Secondly, has there been any thought to increasing the amount of spies one could buy a day from say 2 to like 10? If someone comes in and assassinate 25% of my 50 spies (say 12) and they lose none, then I can only buh back 2, now its 50 vs 40 so the odds are now in the attackers favor with each day getting more and more lopsided in advantage to the attacker. Maybe I'm missing something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atzuya Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Well, you can always strike back if you got spy-opped, or ask your friends to help you out. Remember, the same kind of advantage also works against your enemies. You can find the spy odds formula on the wiki 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saruman Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Good job as always Sheepy! Thanks for keeping the spy range for now. º¤ø„¤¤º°¨ ø„¸¸„¨ ø„¸¸„ø¤º°¨¨°º¤ø„¸¸„ø¤º°¨¨°º¤ø„¸ ¨°º¤ø„¸ GOD EMPEROR BIO DRANDO¨°º¤ø„¸ ¨°º¤ø„¸ BIO DRANDO GOD EMPEROR¨°º¤ø„¸ ¨°º¤ø„¤¤º°¨ ø„¸¸„¨ ø„¸¸„ø¤º°¨¨°º¤ø„¸¸„ø¤º°¨¨°º¤ø„¸ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustine Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Having massive amounts of spies and being able to kill 40 of someone else's spies was such a fun aspect of the game though To tack onto this also: 50 vs 50 isn't a deadlock. The offense still has the advantage. Well that's grand. The one defense against spy ops (having more spies) is gone and the offense has the advantage. Sucks to suck when a rogue or raider comes along, I guess (even if you have the CIA). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Alex Posted July 14, 2015 Author Administrators Share Posted July 14, 2015 First off, what is the spy formula......and how do larger nations still have an advantage. Secondly, has there been any thought to increasing the amount of spies one could buy a day from say 2 to like 10? If someone comes in and assassinate 25% of my 50 spies (say 12) and they lose none, then I can only buh back 2, now its 50 vs 40 so the odds are now in the attackers favor with each day getting more and more lopsided in advantage to the attacker. Maybe I'm missing something. Which spy formula? And as I pointed out in the OP, larger nations are still at an advantage because money is the source of all espionage activity, and larger nations have the most money. As for the damage formula, that was nerfed, it was 50% + 4 spies previously (meaning you could've lost 25 spies, not just 12). And remember these are damage caps, not the guaranteed amounts. You could've very well lost less than that depending on how many spies your opponent sends. The odds are in advantage of the attacker, but 50 vs 50 is ~72% odds. That's an advantage, but not an infallible one. Is there a bug? Report It | Not understanding game mechanics? Ask About It | Got a good idea? Suggest ItForums Rules | Game Link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatnate Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Sheepy: just give the odds qualitative descriptors instead of actual numbers so people get a feel for the range and remove the numbers. e.g. never,poor,fair,good,great,confident As long as we get a percentage tables, this is a good idea. IE good is 50-70% or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bambino Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Maybe instead of having a cap on the numbers of spies you should have put it based upon some other factor (say like infrastructure, or maybe a certain number of spies per infrastructure). That way someone who has a lot of spies and a lot of infrastructure has the same "concentration" as it were as the people with fewer. I've seen this done in other games where it's based upon land or some other factor and your odds of success are your ratio compared to the other person's and it prevents people from stomping "weaker" nations while still requiring the aspect of the game to be actively managed. All this update does is arbitrarily neuter people who have taken the time and placed the resources into investing in their nations rather than people who have decided that they didn't need to go the spy route. Yes, you get the cash back plus some, but that doesn't cover the strategy that you seemingly cut out of the game. Guess we'll see how it goes. Expect it to be pretty crappy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayayay Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 (edited) I've been building my spies for so long and suddenly and violently had them ripped away from me. I don't know what to do with my nation anymore. Goes back to stockpiling nukes Edit: Also, when I said I wanted a cap way back when I was thinking more like 100. Btw, in response to the people who wanted it based on size/city count. What about nations who would suddenly and massively fall in score? Fraggle Rock, in the last war, sold a bunch of infra and had ~160 or so spies in a range where 50 was considered large. A flat cap is the best idea balance wise, imo. Edited July 14, 2015 by underlordgc 1 Orbis Wars | CSI: UPN | B I G O O F | PW Expert Has Nerve To Tell You How To Run Your Own Goddamn Alliance | Occupy Wall Street | Sheepy Sings TheNG - My favorite part is when Steve suggests DEIC might have done something remotely successful, then gets massively shit on for proposing such a stupid idea. On 1/4/2016 at 6:37 PM, Sheepy said: This was !@#$ing gold. 10/10 possibly my favorite post on these forums yet. Sheepy said: I'm retarded, you win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nintendo Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 I've been going back and forth on this update. Part of me likes it and part of me doesn't. I'm a relatively small nation, so this change doesn't really affect me yet. Did you consider rather than making a cap on spies, just increasing the cost per spy exponentially (kind of like infrastructure)? You could set the formula so that buying the first 50 spies would be similar to the cost of buying 50 spies right now (maybe even leave it at the standard rate). Then make it so expensive to go from 50 to say 100 that in most cases it wouldn't make sense to do so anyway due to the extremely high price tag. With this formula, you could even set the cap at 100 (I think 100 is a better cap regardless). If spies did increase in cost exponentially already, sorry for posting the above. In my very few spy purchases so far, I haven't noticed an increase in cost haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerys Targaryen Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Even though I lost a lot of spies, I think this is a good update. Also, can you hide CIA project? Opponents can find out whether there is a CIA or not only by gathering intel through spy operation, not just by looking at the nation page. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buorhann Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Even though I lost a lot of spies, I think this is a good update. Also, can you hide CIA project? Opponents can find out whether there is a CIA or not only by gathering intel through spy operation, not just by looking at the nation page. It'd still be easy to figure out by just counting your infrastructure. 1 Warrior of Dio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfPCFQfOnLg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kemal Ergenekon Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Yeah I'd like to see a range of plus and minus 5 or 10 added to the backend where a random number is picked from that range and used with a tilde on the end. The range isn't actually used, it's just for ubfuscating the odds to the user. If this changes per page reload, you can reload several times to get a consistent estimate of the actual number. If this changes per player, several players can gather their info and get a consistent estimate. This could actually be nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phaik Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Btw, in response to the people who wanted it based on size/city count. What about nations who would suddenly and massively fall in score? Fraggle Rock, in the last war, sold a bunch of infra and had ~160 or so spies in a range where 50 was considered large. A flat cap is the best idea balance wise, imo. Okay, but that is a strategy. And one that couldn't be maintained for long due to spy upkeep costs. And on the same note, isn't Fraggle Rock nuclear? If he dropped so drastically in score, surely he dropped to an area where nukes are almost unheard of. How would you propose dealing with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan77 Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Sheepy is trolling me surely Not only removing a load of my spies but then taking advatage of the situation to kill my tanks. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avruch Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Thanks for the explanation, Sheepy. This change isn't particularly in my favor since I had a big stack of spies, but oh well. One thing I would really like, though, is for espionage results to be saved somewhere - either in notifications or in some dedicated spy results log. I'm not sure why it's necessary to have the results self-destruct after reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samwise Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Even though I lost a lot of spies, I think this is a good update. Also, can you hide CIA project? Opponents can find out whether there is a CIA or not only by gathering intel through spy operation, not just by looking at the nation page. I agree with hiding the CIA from project list. Also, iSupport removing the spy range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELPINCHAZO Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 I agree with hiding the CIA from project list. Also, iSupport removing the spy range. I'm not sure I agree with that,what is the justification of hiding that one project? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordRahl2 Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 I'm not sure I agree with that,what is the justification of hiding that one project? Actually it has some merit. The spy module is obviously a bit different than the other modules so hiding the spy module is not a terrible idea. You could also decouple that project from infrastructure so that anyone could build it with sufficient funds. Maybe slap an upkeep on it. -signature removed for rules violation- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELPINCHAZO Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Actually it has some merit. The spy module is obviously a bit different than the other modules so hiding the spy module is not a terrible idea. You could also decouple that project from infrastructure so that anyone could build it with sufficient funds. Maybe slap an upkeep on it. That still doesn't justify why it needs to be hidden. I'm not saying I think it is entirely wrong,I'm just not sure I agree without some specific justification of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordRahl2 Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 That still doesn't justify why it needs to be hidden. I'm not saying I think it is entirely wrong,I'm just not sure I agree without some specific justification of it. Why does hiding it require a justification in general? But ok: Sheepy wants everyone to at least be able to use spies. I think that might as well include spy projects. Also, it is a different type of module where the thing it modifies is hidden. Lastly, having the project remain visible at least implies that the player has 60 spies. -signature removed for rules violation- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELPINCHAZO Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Why does hiding it require a justification in general? But ok: Sheepy wants everyone to at least be able to use spies. I think that might as well include spy projects. Also, it is a different type of module where the thing it modifies is hidden. Lastly, having the project remain visible at least implies that the player has 60 spies. Well,no one wants to makes changes just for the sake of making changes. Was that so hard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordRahl2 Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Well,no one wants to makes changes just for the sake of making changes. Was that so hard? Ummmm. Have you been reading the forums recently? Obviously, nobody wanted to make changes just to make changes. Now the change is made and the idea from Aerys was not a bad tie-in to the recent spy change. Also I provided several reasons why it was a decent idea none of which you just replied to: Sheepy wants everyone to at least be able to use spies. I think that might as well include spy projects. Also, it is a different type of module where the thing it modifies is hidden. Lastly, having the project remain visible at least implies that the player has 60 spies. -signature removed for rules violation- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELPINCHAZO Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Ummmm. Have you been reading the forums recently? Obviously, nobody wanted to make changes just to make changes. Now the change is made and the idea from Aerys was not a bad tie-in to the recent spy change. Also I provided several reasons why it was a decent idea none of which you just replied to: Sheepy wants everyone to at least be able to use spies. I think that might as well include spy projects. Also, it is a different type of module where the thing it modifies is hidden. Lastly, having the project remain visible at least implies that the player has 60 spies. I did reply to them, also that was mocking you but you're a little too tied up in yourself to notice that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordRahl2 Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 I did reply to them Show me where you replied to them. You are in the BGE group aren't you? I know they only accept quality there! -signature removed for rules violation- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ren Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 I don't think the project should be hidden. Keeping it visible makes it a deterrent, because it's assumed that anyone with it has 60 spies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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