Incoming Spy Changes

[Alex]

We've been doing a lot of discussion about spy changes lately, and I think we've come up with an appropriate fix to everyone's woes. Here is outlined a list of changes that are to be in the near future. This thread is for asking questions about the incoming spy changes, and so that you can be aware of them before they hit. It is not for you to make your own suggestions.

 

• Hard cap on spies for every nation at 50 - This will level the playing field for spies across the board, from big nations to small, and make espionage a unique part of the game


• Refund all spies over 50 at $135,200 each - This is to account for the cost of the spy itself and the large upkeep you pay per day on your spies


• Remove spies from counting toward nation score - 50 spies is only 5 points, so there's no reason for it to count toward your nation score


• Hide spies killed/captured on nation pages and in APIs (but still show  # of spies) - This will help with scrapers being used to identify assailants


• Change Spy Assassination formula to be capped at 25% of enemy spies + 4 - With lower spy numbers, we don't need as high of damages


• CIA Project Buff, allows an increase to your spy cap of +10 for 60 spies total - This will make the CIA project a little more useful, and provide a small advantage to your nation in Espionage


• Remove spy ranges from the game - I think these are a failed idea, and with the new spy cap unnecessary

That's it. Anything else you'd like to see we can potentially add later. I'm not looking for new suggestions here, I'm making sure there's nothing horrifically wrong with any of these changes before I make them, and giving you (the community) some time to swallow these (rather large) changes before they're rolled out.

 

We've been working on this for weeks, and have been honing and finely tuning these changes into what most out our little dev group thinks is acceptable across the board. These should all be benevolent changes that improve the game and will making spying a unique and less war-like facet of the game.

[Jacob Hanson]

Interesting to say the least, now to max out my spies and drive everyone crazy  Perhaps the Intelligence Project can raise the cap?

Edited July 10, 2015 by Jacob Hanson

[Guest]

Interesting to say the least, now to max out my spies and drive everyone crazy Perhaps the Intelligence Project can raise the cap?

Read the thread again...

[Kastor]

Please don't cap spies at 50, it would suck. Best part about spies is targeting, planning going up against more spies or less. Capping spies at 50 is a horrid idea.

[Milkman]

Definitely an interesting change. With the spy range gone this could really change alliance wars significantly.

[Cuba]

I approve of this. There's no reason for unlimited spies.

[Augustine]

I don't think the game would be improved by limiting the number of spies a nation can have. 

[Isolatar]

Is this because I spied on Malone?

[Kastor]

I approve of this. There's no reason for unlimited spies.

Why not? irl people can have thousands of spies. Putting a cap means there is no dynamic to it. The people who got online everyday and bought spies for 100+ days because they wanted to be able to spy everyone, be the greatest with spies. Putting a cap on spies just limits everyone and takes away from the game. Spies won't matter if this is implemented because once I get 50 thats it, you can't get anymore. It'll be that thing you do for 20 days after a war and then its over.

[Cuba]

You can get a extra 10 with the CIA project in this upcoming change. This isn't a alternative proposal thread so I'll just leave it at that.

[Dan77]

This panders to the ill-prepared.  You're removing a legitimate strategy from the game.  Now everyone with any sense will simply have 50 spies.  Stalemate.

 

Also, $135,200 is nothing like what we've spent on spies.

[Moreau]

Thanks sheeppy for removing the spy range!

[Apeman]

As a guy who just got rid of 156 spies this sucks. That's 10 million cash I'm not getting back with the update

[ELPINCHAZO]

This panders to the ill-prepared.  You're removing a legitimate strategy from the game.  Now everyone with any sense will simply have 50 spies.  Stalemate.

 

Also, $135,200 is nothing like what we've spent on spies.

You were paying for defense and offensive ability,that was your choice at the time and you received the benefits already.

 

You're making a profit on the cost of the actual spies.

[Dan77]

You were paying for defense and offensive ability,that was your choice at the time and you received the benefits already.

 

You're making a profit on the cost of the actual spies.

 

Yeah.  It was a long term strategy.  Now the goalposts have been moved though.  Pretty useless paying all that upkeep on 50 extra spies during peace time only for them to be taken away.

[Dwemyrn]

Well now that there is a cap, there goes my idea of allowing the CIA national project to let you recruit 4 spies instead of 2. All well I guess. Â¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Alex]

Why not? irl people can have thousands of spies. Putting a cap means there is no dynamic to it. The people who got online everyday and bought spies for 100+ days because they wanted to be able to spy everyone, be the greatest with spies. Putting a cap on spies just limits everyone and takes away from the game. Spies won't matter if this is implemented because once I get 50 thats it, you can't get anymore. It'll be that thing you do for 20 days after a war and then its over.

 

Capping spies is what will make them dynamic, though. Currently you either have a lot of spies, or you have hardly any spies, and when someone assassinates your spies, you lose a lot of progress. These changes will make spies more dynamic, and the first "even" playing field for nations of all sizes.

 

Plus, the offense still has the advantage, you have 72% success odds in a 50 vs 50 simulation at the maximum caution level. The days of unlimited spying capability will be over, the days of a more even, balanced spy system will reign.

 

This panders to the ill-prepared.  You're removing a legitimate strategy from the game.  Now everyone with any sense will simply have 50 spies.  Stalemate.

 

Also, $135,200 is nothing like what we've spent on spies.

 

I understand your concerns, but that's a 100% refund on the cost of your spy, along with enough to cover the upkeep of each spy for 35.5 days. You may have had your spies for longer than others, but across the board this is the best refund we can offer, and the fairest. 

Plus, while you've had your spies, it's not as if they've been useless. You've either used them in offensive operations, or they've acted as a deterrent to being spied on. Either way, you got some use out of them, and so if you only paid a week or two of upkeep after the refund, that's not a bad deal.

[LordRahl2]

 

We've been doing a lot of discussion about spy changes lately, and I think we've come up with an appropriate fix to everyone's woes. Here is outlined a list of changes that are to be in the near future. This thread is for asking questions about the incoming spy changes, and so that you can be aware of them before they hit. It is not for you to make your own suggestions.

 

• Hard cap on spies for every nation at 50 - This will level the playing field for spies across the board, from big nations to small, and make espionage a unique part of the game
• Refund all spies over 50 at $135,200 each - This is to account for the cost of the spy itself and the large upkeep you pay per day on your spies
• Remove spies from counting toward nation score - 50 spies is only 5 points, so there's no reason for it to count toward your nation score
• Hide spies killed/captured on nation pages and in APIs (but still show  # of spies) - This will help with scrapers being used to identify assailants
• Change Spy Assassination formula to be capped at 25% of enemy spies + 4 - With lower spy numbers, we don't need as high of damages
• CIA Project Buff, allows an increase to your spy cap of +10 for 60 spies total - This will make the CIA project a little more useful, and provide a small advantage to your nation in Espionage
• Remove spy ranges from the game - I think these are a failed idea, and with the new spy cap unnecessary

That's it. Anything else you'd like to see we can potentially add later. I'm not looking for new suggestions here, I'm making sure there's nothing horrifically wrong with any of these changes before I make them, and giving you (the community) some time to swallow these (rather large) changes before they're rolled out.

 

We've been working on this for weeks, and have been honing and finely tuning these changes into what most out our little dev group thinks is acceptable across the board. These should all be benevolent changes that improve the game and will making spying a unique and less war-like facet of the game.

 

 

Sheepy, who is this 'we'?  You are getting some really bad advice.

[Pfeiffer]

So can we just call this Politics and War Beta now?

 

Cosmetic changes are whatever, fundamental mechanical shifts should only happen in response to exploits or game breaking bugs.

[Clarke]

I don't follow, all the updates for spies in this current version of P&W has being largely fundamental for all intents and purposes. 

Complaining about these changes as such is misguided. 

[Dan77]

It wasn't just an individual strategy you've killed.  It was an alliance wide, long term strategy for us that took months of planning and investment.  So those alliances and individuals who were ill-prepared or too tight to pay the upkeep are now laughing.

 

I suspect most of this advice has come from people without many spies and with a vested interest in the strategy being removed.  I know Mensa had a big impact with spies in the last war and it's easier for people to complain about the system than buy their own spies and pay for them.

 

There are far too many changes to the military side of this game.  As soon as you are set on a strategy, something changes.  I thought it was out of beta before I joined.  Yes we can change strategy, it's not too big of a deal, it's just a shame.

Edited July 10, 2015 by Dan77

[Saruman]

Please oh please don't get rid of the spy range. 

[LordRahl2]

I don't follow, all the updates for spies in this current version of P&W has being largely fundamental for all intents and purposes. 

Complaining about these changes as such is misguided. 

 

 

Not in the slightest.

[Clarke]

Not in the slightest.

I meant complaining about these being fundamental changes for the "finished" version of the game, not complaining about the changes themselves which is perfectly reasonable since it is a sizable change. 

[LordRahl2]

I meant complaining about these being fundamental changes for the "finished" version of the game, not complaining about the changes themselves which is perfectly reasonable since it is a sizable change. 

 

Ah, I see.

 

My point was about Sheepy consistently listening to some group of players who have a clear agenda.  And the advice is pushing the game further and further in a defensive save my pixels direction.  This will damage the game's long term health far more than some random cheaters.