Guardian Military Action

[Hansarius]

So my allies ask for some help, and I want to give my new members military experience is TOTAL COMPLETE FABRICATED REASONS TO GO TO WAR. Just because you swear doesn't make you right. Just because you using the Socratic method in your post doesn't make you clever. Everyone seems to be forgetting reason 1 and reason 2. Well you better ignore those reasons otherwise, well, you'd look like an idiot with what you just said. The third reason simply highlights that isolation makes you vulnerable. War would of happened with or without me stating that. Now I get to highlight that fact without creating a conflict that wasn't going to happen anyway. Run around in circles? I've been running in a straight line since I've gotten here. I've not wavered, I've not lied, I've meant what I've said, and said what I've meant. Sorry I've offended you SO horribly to in trying to highlight the dangers of rolling alone for so long in a war that was happening anyway. 

Concerning reason 1 & 2

 

1: It's interesting that you seem to fall back on "supporting your ally" as justifiable reason to go to war in it's own right

And yet, when we discussed UPN's decision to support our late ally EoS in attacking TAC way back when you said this and I quote:

 

Prefontaine   So that's all it takes for a justified war in your opinion?

 

2: I can not fathom that you would take part in wrecking an alliance so that you could provide them with experience, and call it just.

[Gregory House]

Your cake tastes like !@#$.

 

Quite the formidable argument you're making there.

[Pax]

 

 

 

 

pay me prefont

Edited March 10, 2015 by Pax

[Prefontaine]

2: I can not fathom that you would take part in wrecking an alliance so that you could provide them with experience, and call it just.

 

I'm not wrecking them. We're not using missiles, at least I don't believe any have been used thus far and I've asked for none to be used from us. As I've stated before, we're sending 5 nations, performing 7 wars. If people consider this destroying an alliance of 35 members, I don't know what to tell you. We seem to have a fundamental difference in understanding the meaning of some words in the English language.

 

 

Your cake tastes like !@#$.

 

I'm pretty bad at baking.

[Arthur James]

I don't like Santa actually......when I know the truth.....but the child need to be educated like Huns, Mongols in Age 13, you start learning how to use bow to hunt, riding....and now you(child) need to use guns to learn how to shoot those living targets.

[Saru]

I don't like Santa actually......when I know the truth.....but the child need to be educated like Huns, Mongols in Age 13, you start learning how to use bow to hunt, riding....and now you(child) need to use guns to learn how to shoot those living targets.

 

/thread

[Hansarius]

I'm not wrecking them. We're not using missiles, at least I don't believe any have been used thus far and I've asked for none to be used from us. As I've stated before, we're sending 5 nations, performing 7 wars. If people consider this destroying an alliance of 35 members, I don't know what to tell you. We seem to have a fundamental difference in understanding the meaning of some words in the English language.

 

 

 

I'm pretty bad at baking.

 

From my understanding of the situation, CU is admitting to not being able to fight back, I call that being wrecked. And your alliance is taking part in it.

Care to address my first point as well or are you going to just continue using veiled insults from this point on?

[Jodo]

You know what? No. You win this round AJ. 

Edited March 10, 2015 by Jodo

[Prefontaine]

From my understanding of the situation, CU is admitting to not being able to fight back, I call that being wrecked. And your alliance is taking part in it.

Care to address my first point as well or are you going to just continue using veiled insults from this point on?

 

You mean the part where I asked you a question? If I made a statement, sure, I'd validate it, but I asked you a question. My opinion on the matter wasn't given. You might think it was implied, but that may have been your assumption. If I did say somewhere that supporting your allies isn't a valid reason for war, then I'll address that. 

[Fox Fire]

I don't like Santa actually......when I know the truth.....but the child need to be educated like Huns, Mongols in Age 13, you start learning how to use bow to hunt, riding....and now you(child) need to use guns to learn how to shoot those living targets.

[screams internally]

 

/thread

[Shellhound]

AJ for post of the !@#$ing year.

[Erin]

I don't like Santa actually......when I know the truth.....but the child need to be educated like Huns, Mongols in Age 13, you start learning how to use bow to hunt, riding....and now you(child) need to use guns to learn how to shoot those living targets.

This is what it's come to

[Arthur James]

i said that for sarcastic meant, not justify the action..

 

for CU, I can smell something very similiar

Edited March 10, 2015 by Arthur James

[Spyro]

You know, I use to ignore many of the forums on here, and distance myself of the P&W Forum drama.

 

But it's actually quite entertaining to see how people can turn on one another rather quickly after just agreeing to another not too long ago. Haha

 

As I said in my first comment, this announcement isn't very impressive, 2 alliances who are rather large in strength ganging up on 1 alliance that I personally have not even noticed the whole time I was here. ...... Yawn.

 

It's not even worth the post really, now had you said you guys were going up against someone like V.E., or G.P.A., or Rose, or several others up there in the ranks, then that, THAT, ..... would have been worth the writing.

[Spyro]

You know, I use to ignore many of the forums on here, and distance myself of the P&W Forum drama.

 

But it's actually quite entertaining to see how people can turn on one another rather quickly after just agreeing to another not too long ago. Haha

 

As I said in my first comment, this announcement isn't very impressive, 2 alliances who are rather large in strength ganging up on 1 alliance that I personally have not even noticed the whole time I was here. ...... Yawn.

 

It's not even worth the post really, now had you said you guys were going up against someone like V.E., or G.P.A., or Rose, or several others up there in the ranks, then that, THAT, ..... would have been worth the writing.

 

 

With that said, I'm out of this thread.

 

Yea, yea, good riddance, I know!

Edited March 10, 2015 by Spyro F Dragon

[Caillou]

Not that it really matters what I think anymore but I'm going to go ahead and throw my thoughts out there anyway. I will try to go back a bit just to try and illustrate some of the events that happened prior to this one. (Please keep in mind these statements are strictly my thoughts and opinions and do not represent my alliance's views on the situation.)

 

Rose has a giant leak

::leaker runs to CU, who willingly accepts and refuses to punish the leaker.

 

Most of Rose top tier leaves to create Rothschilds

::Rothschilds disbands after 3 days due to Guardian war plans against them being leaked

 

Rose hits CU gov for being stubborn and offering protection to leaker

::CU takes some heavy losses and (I can only assume) experiences some internal drama

 

TEst declares on CU

::A good majority of CU is out of reach of TEst due to the lower score nations in CU, while TEst is a mostly top tier alliance

::CU is clearly unable to put up a good fight and incapable of fighting this war

 

Guardian declares on CU to "aid allies"

::Implying TEst needs the aid

 

First and foremost I have been on the side CU is facing right now, but the context was quite a bit different. A while back I was the leader of an alliance that was the largest in the game at the time, but we were declared on by the next largest 3 (excluding GPA because... GPA). Obviously we didn't stand a chance but I would like to say we put up a good fight and gave them a run for their money despite being outnumbered by around 100 players. If that taught me anything it's that you don't fold over and just expose your belly instead of fight. Even if it is an easy fight make them know you aren't done. We had ZI'd nations and we did the last thing we could do - we bombed their color. Their color stock bonus became absolute trash after we did it (although now it wouldn't really be as much of a hit since all colors are pretty low stocks now). So Grealind: buck the !@#$ up and fight. Don't sit around and ration your money because I assure you - it won't make that much of a difference if your repairs are instantly destroyed again. 

 

Alternatively, I will say that Guardian has surprised me by posting this declaration. I understand you wanted to get some war experience for your newer members, and I don't blame you for using the situation to do so but the way you went about doing felt very artificial. Claiming you were requested to help your ally - who is clearly winning by a large margin is just absurd. Also, I remember a time not long ago when Guardian claimed it was unfair for so much of a top tier to be allied together and it is what forced you and SK to align with each other in order to secure safety. Isn't aligning Guardian and TEst a bit overkill, especially considering the mass amounts of missiles and iron domes your members have been getting? From my point of view the recent military affairs of Guardian regarding the Rothschilds, and CU are beginning to paint Guardian as a bully, whether they are or not can be up for debate and I know you are good people as I have had the pleasure of working alongside you (shoutout to Shellhound) but either way I'm sure that's not the reputation you are going for. 

 

TEst I don't really have anything to say about you.... you are just fulfilling the demand of the blood god. We expect these things from you. Ily Saeton.

[Khestra]

[Prefontaine]

Not that it really matters what I think anymore but I'm going to go ahead and throw my thoughts out there anyway. I will try to go back a bit just to try and illustrate some of the events that happened prior to this one. (Please keep in mind these statements are strictly my thoughts and opinions and do not represent my alliance's views on the situation.)

 

Rose has a giant leak

::leaker runs to CU, who willingly accepts and refuses to punish the leaker.

 

Most of Rose top tier leaves to create Rothschilds

::Rothschilds disbands after 3 days due to Guardian war plans against them being leaked

 

Rose hits CU gov for being stubborn and offering protection to leaker

::CU takes some heavy losses and (I can only assume) experiences some internal drama

 

TEst declares on CU

::A good majority of CU is out of reach of TEst due to the lower score nations in CU, while TEst is a mostly top tier alliance

::CU is clearly unable to put up a good fight and incapable of fighting this war

 

Guardian declares on CU to "aid allies"

::Implying TEst needs the aid

 

First and foremost I have been on the side CU is facing right now, but the context was quite a bit different. A while back I was the leader of an alliance that was the largest in the game at the time, but we were declared on by the next largest 3 (excluding GPA because... GPA). Obviously we didn't stand a chance but I would like to say we put up a good fight and gave them a run for their money despite being outnumbered by around 100 players. If that taught me anything it's that you don't fold over and just expose your belly instead of fight. Even if it is an easy fight make them know you aren't done. We had ZI'd nations and we did the last thing we could do - we bombed their color. Their color stock bonus became absolute trash after we did it (although now it wouldn't really be as much of a hit since all colors are pretty low stocks now). So Grealind: buck the !@#$ up and fight. Don't sit around and ration your money because I assure you - it won't make that much of a difference if your repairs are instantly destroyed again. 

 

Alternatively, I will say that Guardian has surprised me by posting this declaration. I understand you wanted to get some war experience for your newer members, and I don't blame you for using the situation to do so but the way you went about doing felt very artificial. Claiming you were requested to help your ally - who is clearly winning by a large margin is just absurd. Also, I remember a time not long ago when Guardian claimed it was unfair for so much of a top tier to be allied together and it is what forced you and SK to align with each other in order to secure safety. Isn't aligning Guardian and TEst a bit overkill, especially considering the mass amounts of missiles and iron domes your members have been getting? From my point of view the recent military affairs of Guardian regarding the Rothschilds, and CU are beginning to paint Guardian as a bully, whether they are or not can be up for debate and I know you are good people as I have had the pleasure of working alongside you (shoutout to Shellhound) but either way I'm sure that's not the reputation you are going for. 

 

TEst I don't really have anything to say about you.... you are just fulfilling the demand of the blood god. We expect these things from you. Ily Saeton.

 

Finally a reasonable post. Pubstomper showing why I actually like him. For the bully argument, the people that are going to paint it, are going to paint it regardless of what we do unless we do nothing. When your considered to be one of the strongest, when you do anything offensive you will be painted as a bully. We've only been involved in one full war, and that was the Marionette war. Were we going to fight Rothschild? Yeah, but that never happened. Are we fighting CU? Yes, but we're not going to be using the missiles that give us such an edge in damage ability. 

 

The day will come when Guardian is not on the top of the strength charts. It's coming reasonably soon. We don't have the members to keep up, and I've intentionally not made too many allies even given the chance. I've kept Guardians allies at 2 for nearly the whole time to make us vulnerable, we could have had many more allies. Are we tough to beat? Damn straight. Are we unbeatable? No.

 

Guardian's actions are of my will. We don't have a charter, what I say goes. I'm the one that bears responsibility for my alliance. Much like when Diabolos left DEIC, they became a very different alliance after that. Guardian's much the same way in that if I leave the alliance would be very differently politically. I imagine when I leave the alliance I'm going to get rolled hard by the enemies I've made, but you won't see my crying bullies then. If we were truly going to bully CU things would be very different than what they currently are. 

 

You may think that TEst didn't ask for our help, as this is a fight they'd likely win without us without much difficulty. They did however, they wanted some help in the lower ranges, thus why our bottom three are fighting. In return for those three I asked for two more slots for larger nations to fight as well to further the experience, not that Atzuya needs much. She's a monster. 

[Hansarius]

You mean the part where I asked you a question? If I made a statement, sure, I'd validate it, but I asked you a question. My opinion on the matter wasn't given. You might think it was implied, but that may have been your assumption. If I did say somewhere that supporting your allies isn't a valid reason for war, then I'll address that. 

 

Fine, I will grant you the point, you did not outright say that you do not consider blindly supporting your ally an unjustifiable act.

But don't tell me this:

 

Prefontaine   So that's all it takes for a justified war in your opinion?

is not a loaded question where the implied answer in the affirmitive would be considered inexcusable.

 

And whether you outright said it or merely implied it, it still calls your current action and the justification of that action into question.

[Prefontaine]

Fine, I will grant you the point, you did not outright say that you do not consider blindly supporting your ally an unjustifiable act.

But don't tell me this:

is not a loaded question where the implied answer in the affirmitive would be considered inexcusable.

 

And whether you outright said it or merely implied it, it still calls your current action and the justification of that action into question.

 

I will answer this in private.

 

EDIT: You logged off IRC. come back on.

Edited March 10, 2015 by Prefontaine

[Phiney]

Alternatively, I will say that Guardian has surprised me by posting this declaration. I understand you wanted to get some war experience for your newer members, and I don't blame you for using the situation to do so but the way you went about doing felt very artificial. Claiming you were requested to help your ally - who is clearly winning by a large margin is just absurd. Also, I remember a time not long ago when Guardian claimed it was unfair for so much of a top tier to be allied together and it is what forced you and SK to align with each other in order to secure safety. Isn't aligning Guardian and TEst a bit overkill, especially considering the mass amounts of missiles and iron domes your members have been getting? From my point of view the recent military affairs of Guardian regarding the Rothschilds, and CU are beginning to paint Guardian as a bully, whether they are or not can be up for debate and I know you are good people as I have had the pleasure of working alongside you (shoutout to Shellhound) but either way I'm sure that's not the reputation you are going for.

 

TEst I don't really have anything to say about you.... you are just fulfilling the demand of the blood god. We expect these things from you. Ily Saeton.

I'll answer the questions about us asking for help. If anyone had cared to actually look, you'd have seen us go into this war with our bottom 5 beige, and bottom 7 with very little military, hense the request for aid and the expecting a tough fight lower down as we experienced with arrgh.

[Arthur James]

I'll answer the questions about us asking for help. If anyone had cared to actually look, you'd have seen us go into this war with our bottom 5 beige, and bottom 7 with very little military, hense the request for aid and the expecting a tough fight lower down as we experienced with arrgh.

Is this a compensation of lost for fighting CU from Arrgh? they still have 10 valuable fighters within the team.

[John Baraboo]

Can someone please send me a list of alliances Guardian is allowed to attack?

 

And Pre where is that endless flow of cash? You been holding out on us.

 

As for CU being weak and helpless. In one of Clink Eastwoods movies, I think it was "the good,the bad, and the ugly" he shot an unarmed man. Someone spoke up and said something to the effect you shot an unarmed man, to which Eastwood said he should have armed himself. I remember a buttkicking guardian took from, I think they were going by IRON maybe already VoC, anyways it happened right after the war part was added in alpha. We learned that you have to prepare. You can't go 100% econ or someone will eat your lunch. Thanks IRON/VoC/DEIC. I was educated, and it was worth the loss of a few pixiles. I think that was the last war I lost was to Greyshadow. I hope I can say that next year as well.

Edited March 10, 2015 by John Baraboo

[Aenir]

Can someone please send me a list of alliances Guardian is allowed to attack?

 

And Pre where is that endless flow of cash? You been holding out on us.

 

As for CU being weak and helpless. In one of Clink Eastwoods movies, I think it was "the good,the bad, and the ugly" he shot an unarmed man. Someone spoke up and said something to the effect you shot an unarmed man, to which Eastwood said he should have armed himself. I remember a buttkicking guardian took from, I think they were going by IRON maybe already VoC, anyways it happened right after the war part was added in alpha. We learned that you have to prepare. You can't go 100% econ or someone will eat your lunch. Thanks IRON/VoC/DEIC. I was educated, and it was worth the loss of a few pixiles. I think that was the last war I lost was to Greyshadow. I hope I can say that next year as well.

I think you mean TOO(/VoC/DEIC).  The alliance was never named IRON.

[Clarke]

I thought he was referring to World War Alpha for some reason, I guess he wasn't in Guardian for the second time.