[ROH] Hypocrisy Hall of Fame

[Daveth]

On 8/28/2024 at 7:08 AM, Grave said:

Stuff

The degree to which you are oblivious to the dynamic of current events is truly something, honestly... and the fact you'd think anyone who matters agrees with you is amusing.

You know nothing of the why of this war, and if you buy an "overall disapproval", whatever floats your boat, I guess?

In terms of the approval of the declaration by government or our members - we actually had a blast for like the 5 seconds y'all fought us for... lol

Edited August 29 by Daveth

[Grave]

9 hours ago, Daveth said:

The degree to which you are oblivious to the dynamic of current events, is truly something, honestly... and the fact you'd think anyone who matters agrees with you is amusing.

You know nothing of the why of this war, and if you buy an "overall disapproval", whatever floats your boat, I guess?

In terms of the approval of the declaration by government or our members - we actually had a blast for like the 5 seconds y'all fought us for... lol

Isn't your alliances first complaint about Rose is that the didn't notify you that they didn't approve of this war for the same reasons I've been complaining about? 

 

I'll wait 

 

Edit: You're still in denial of the smell of your own crap 

And we declared more wars per player,  after getting blitzed 

 

Without a milcom head 

 

So what does that say about y'all? 

Edited August 29 by Grave

[Grave]

I haven't heard a single person in the entire game even mention the number difference in members , because really it's not relevant. 

 

Imo your effort to "change the landscape " could've really ended in a death sprial of 1 month ROIs, perma revenge cycles, and mass exoduses of good players because of continuous loss of progress over Long periods .

[Altheus]

For what it's worth it would be nice to have some more even-sided wars. The trouble is that they're two conflicting "games" going on in politics and war, both of which are valid, but act against each other

Politics, in which the objective is to be on the largest side possible, so as to win. So dogpiles are desirable.

& Wars, in which even-sided wars are both more fun and also better at proving your alliance's skills at co-ordination and activity levels

Other than suggesting an annual tournament were we put politics aside and deliberately fabricate an even sided war I'm not sure what the solution is

Edited August 29 by Altheus

[Fish]

25 minutes ago, Altheus said:

For what it's worth it would be nice to have some more even-sided wars. The trouble is that they're two conflicting "games" going on in politics and war, both of which are valid, but act against each other

Politics, in which the objective is to be on the largest side possible, so as to win. So dogpiles are desirable.

& Wars, in which even-sided wars are both more fun and also better at proving your alliance's skills at co-ordination and activity levels

Other than suggesting an annual tournament were we put politics aside and deliberately fabricate an even sided war I'm not sure what the solution is

Alliance member caps would help. 50 ish. 

[JaxTeller]

4 hours ago, Grave said:

Isn't your alliances first complaint about Rose is that the didn't notify you that they didn't approve of this war for the same reasons I've been complaining about? 

 

I'll wait 

 

Edit: You're still in denial of the smell of your own crap 

And we declared more wars per player,  after getting blitzed 

 

Without a milcom head 

 

So what does that say about y'all? 

Are people in VM even allowed to have opinions on the OWF?

[Daveth]

5 hours ago, Grave said:

More stuff

Thanks for further proving my point you haven't the slightest idea what's going on!

More wars per player... Rofl I had to think for a moment to remember what you were getting at. Yeah, that's how basic math works - if there's more of us than there are of you, the average is naturally gonna be different since we run out of slots a piece, lmao. 

I don't know what that says about us, only tells me you're an idiot. As for a lack of Milcom, yeah that's apparent.

Really something how people getting bailed out come out of the woodwork to say shit like they matter... 

Edited August 29 by Daveth

[Grave]

8 hours ago, JaxTeller said:

Are people in VM even allowed to have opinions on the OWF?

Who ? 

8 hours ago, Daveth said:

Thanks for further proving my point you haven't the slightest idea what's going on!

More wars per player... Rofl I had to think for a moment to remember what you were getting at. Yeah, that's how basic math works - if there's more of us than there are of you, the average is naturally gonna be different since we run out of slots a piece, lmao. 

I don't know what that says about us, only tells me you're an idiot. As for a lack of Milcom, yeah that's apparent.

Really something how people getting bailed out come out of the woodwork to say shit like they matter... 

Are you suggesting I can get the average member to declare >3 wars each time they leave beige 

 

I wish , y'all just bad 

[Grave]

This entire thread is a testament to the amount of work EVH puts into making it seem like number difference is the issue at play 

[JaxTeller]

6 minutes ago, Grave said:

This entire thread is a testament to the amount of work EVH puts into making it seem like number difference is the issue at play 

*Entire alliance VMs after like 24 hours of fighting*

"You guys are so mean kicking us when we are down"

*Gets bailed out by 65% of the game*

"Wow you guys are so bad at war"

 

???

[Sketchy]

James Wilson stepped aside, and the world breathed a sigh of relief, finally, rationality and reasonableness has come to The Immortals.

But alas, we did not foresee the coming of Graves, awoken from his eternal slumber by the annoying gnat that is Event Horizon, buzzing in his ear, Graves, a giant amongst men, lumbered out of his gilded bean bag, and graced us with his glorious opinions.

And the politics of The Immortals, no, all of Orbis, were never the same again.

[Avatar Patrick]

14 hours ago, Altheus said:

Other than suggesting an annual tournament were we put politics aside and deliberately fabricate an even sided war I'm not sure what the solution is

A game wide NAP?

[Daveth]

3 hours ago, Grave said:

Even more stuff

What I'm suggesting is the pretty bog simple dynamic of an asymmetric war, which might be a novel concept regardless of your supposed background in Milcom. It's infinitely easier to declare more wars when you're fighting more people. Whereas we were limited to the initial slots and then instantly hitting you whenever a shmuck came off beige... or didn't VM for that matter.

Y'know what the difference between us is? 

You'd reach out to anyone willing to listen to your drivel. On the flip side, your folks reach out us looking to join up because of how tired they are of your excuse for a government, lmao.

 

Edited August 30 by Daveth

[SleepingNinja]

4 hours ago, Sketchy said:

James Wilson stepped aside, and the world breathed a sigh of relief, finally, rationality and reasonableness has come to The Immortals.

But alas, we did not foresee the coming of Graves, awoken from his eternal slumber by the annoying gnat that is Event Horizon, buzzing in his ear, Graves, a giant amongst men, lumbered out of his gilded bean bag, and graced us with his glorious opinions.

And the politics of The Immortals, no, all of Orbis, were never the same again.

This is partly my fault, I gave another mirco mentality poster the time of day and now they're all dropping their 2 cents. I'll repent in the fires of a good rolling. 🙏

[Grave]

4 hours ago, Daveth said:

I don't understand that TI declared less wars than their defensive slots available and refuse to even try 

 

 

Y'know what the difference between us is? 

Nobody told me that our members were trying poaching from TI , resulting in rhe above message being sent out to exactly 4 people.  

 

 

7 hours ago, JaxTeller said:

We were Getting outdone by an alliance where "everyone " is in VM 

Then we tried to roll 65% of all alliances out of the game 

Then those alliances pre-empted us 

we are so good

 

 

[James II]

16 hours ago, Grave said:

 

 

 

 

I think the edit you did with the post, is what you actually do in your head. What a sad reality.

Edited August 30 by James II

[Sweeeeet Ronny D]

On 8/29/2024 at 9:19 PM, Daveth said:

What I'm suggesting is the pretty bog simple dynamic of an asymmetric war, which might be a novel concept regardless of your supposed background in Milcom. It's infinitely easier to declare more wars when you're fighting more people. Whereas we were limited to the initial slots and then instantly hitting you whenever a shmuck came off beige... or didn't VM for that matter.

Y'know what the difference between us is? 

You'd reach out to anyone willing to listen to your drivel. On the flip side, your folks reach out us looking to join up because of how tired they are of your excuse for a government, lmao.

 

This just makes you both scumbags.

[Buorhann]

Yikes.

[Daveth]

On 9/2/2024 at 11:37 PM, Sweeeeet Ronny D said:

This just makes you both scumbags.

Did you take your medicine? I ain't no scumbag.

Edited September 4 by Daveth

[Krampus]

On 9/3/2024 at 4:37 AM, Sweeeeet Ronny D said:

This just makes you both scumbags

Because they apply to us? Wtf is this logic lol

[I Hate Sauerkraut]

On 8/23/2024 at 6:18 PM, EvilPiggyFooFoo said:

I don’t like writing long political theses that create bitter grudges, the game is meant to be fun. I try to keep my FA and DOWs light hearted, but with the amount of hypocrisy that exists in this coalition, enjoy my wall of text.

 

Tl;Dr: 

1. We created EVH with the hope of breaking political stagnation and bipolarism, to that end, we aimed to reset relations with Rose, SIN, and TGH. All three agreed and promised the coalition would not target EVH, only to dogpile us days later.

2. Rose is on their high horse claiming moral superiority as their CB. Rose, the greatest dogpiler in PnW history, is claiming moral superiority. Not only did they never communicate their discontent with the TI war, they also refused TI’s attempts to get protection from them. Stop pretending that you actually care.

3. During the Guardian-HS war, TFP failed to defend their M with CTO. In January, we chose not to press this CB in hopes of resetting relations. Now they’re repaid that goodwill with a war on the basis that we didn’t stop t$ from blitzing them.

 

Preface:

Less juicy details here but I think this is important context.

EVH was created because Jax, Xi, and I were frustrated with political stagnation and the predictability of wars. We aimed to form a war-focused alliance that could disrupt this trend with a more independent and forward-looking FA style.

Speaking for myself - I came as a pirate from Arrgh. For my year in CTO leadership, we were as independent as you could get. We never officially joined any sphere (M TFP and O Eclipse, paperless, and then M Aurora O KT) and we worked across the aisle to join conflicts. It might not have been perfect, but I tried to make things a bit different. We ran the risk of getting hit (and we did three times) but that was a good trade off for being able to keep things dynamic.

When we formed EVH, it was our intention to leave SAIL and shake things up. We communicated this to t$ in formation and in the months leading up to the eventual break up. To that end, we aimed to reset relations with those we had been in conflicts with (Rose, TGH, SIN, TFP etc.) and see a path forward beyond repeat wars. But here we are.

 

Re: Resetting Relations

• Rose, SIN, and TGH—you each committed to resetting relations and agreed that we wouldn’t target each other this war cycle. We reaffirmed this multiple times, you publicly declared the relation reset, and EVH honored it. But, all three of you broke that agreement. I don’t need to really emphasize how egregious this is.
• You could have prosecuted this war with Guardian-Oblivion-AA-Penta-TFP and won. We wouldn’t have complained and fought with a smile on our faces. But no, you were so scared of EVH-KT-LOD you chose to break 3 agreements and bring the whole gang for a 4 v 1.
• Why should any alliances bother resetting relations with you in the future?
• Let me quickly remind everyone that CTO and Aurora were bitter rivals two years ago, we’ve reset relations and merged. CTO and HS relations are now amicable after a pretty nasty war. We have done our part again and again, it's not us, it's you.

 

Re: Rose CB

Rose’s entire CB both publicly and privately hinges on “At the end of the day you tried to kick [The Immortals] while down, there is no "fancy" way to FA that will make my point more than that. What you did was ethically wrong and deserved a response” (to quote George). Funny you should say that.

1. We received zero communication that you disapproved of the war
   • You knew about this conflict three weeks in advance and had every opportunity to tell us, “This isn’t cool.” You didn’t. So, either a) you didn’t care and are now using this as an excuse, or b) you wanted TI to get rolled so you could make this claim.
2. You rejected TI when they sought to join your coalition
   • They knew about the war weeks in advance and asked to join the coalition, but you said no. They probably reached out for a treaty too at some point. If you truly cared, why throw TI under the bus unless it served your own interests?
3. Even if what EVH did was so morally reprehensible, are you really one to talk? Since I came back to the game in 2022, every offensive war you declared was a dog pile.
   • The first offensive war I watched was when you rolled a freshly rebuilt Cata-Paradise (from Bifrost Blitz) in a dogpile.
   • Your next offensive war was Darkest Hour. Where 70% of the game rolled T$-Eclipse.
   • Your next offensive was Blue Balls, where you worked with House and a remilitarized CIS to blitz SAIL.
   • Recently, you did a 4 v 1 dogpile on T$. And moved to EVH.
   • Your entire alliance history of offensive wars is dogpiles on dogpiles, get off your high horse.

 

Re: TFP CB

• This one is particularly ironic. In 2023, TFP failed to defend CTO when Guardian blitzed us, giving us a valid CB for revenge against TFP. However, in January 2024, CTO chose not to prosecute this CB, aiming to keep our relationship amicable. We were even invited to act on it but chose to limit our involvement.
• Shwin, I gave you as much of a heads-up as possible that the Jan war was coming. We've explained this to you in DMs, making every effort to reset relations and move forward. Yet, despite our attempts, you chose to hold onto a grudge that you started.

 

Re: TI + Penta

• Penta has a valid CB. I will give them that. As does TI in the future. I am not here to shit on them like the other two, I am just here to explain our decision calculus for why we are at war with them.
• We prosecuted those wars because there were no other viable options. I envisioned EVH as a war-focused alliance, not one that sits in peace for a year. However, given the FA landscape and the fact that everyone is tied up in treaties or NAPs, they were the only options available.
• The wars were lopsided and not what I wanted. Penta would have been a great fight—one alliance against a sphere. I had hoped TI would be better prepared after 14 months of peace (before the last war). Still, we chose to fight rather than sit and farm, and for that, I do apologize.
• That being said, the least Rose/TFP and the rest can do is admit when wars are fought for the sake of fun like us rather than hide behind some cloak of righteousness playing high and mighty.

 

In summary, this is an open letter to the FA community. Everyone yaps about how they wish the game was more multipolar and dynamic, but no one is willing to do it. I now see why—resetting relations and making commitments across the aisle only leads to being dogpiled by hypocrites. So to everyone in the coalition, if you're serious about changing the FA landscape, start by getting off your high horses and honoring your words.

 

Above are the facts (in other words, So true)

[Sweeeeet Ronny D]

On 9/4/2024 at 12:05 AM, Daveth said:

Did you take your medicine? I ain't no scumbag.

To hit an alliance that soon after they just got out of a war is a scumbag move.  You are in a leadership position, take your scumbaggery and own it.

Just like mass messaging a recruitment message to an alliance you are at war with and beating is a scumbag move by that dude from TI.

[Daveth]

4 hours ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said:

Stuff

1) So, I understand TKR and Grumpy have gone through some of this. I'm not sure if you remember, but Carthago was hit multiple times shortly post-rebuild during our existence... and I mean, we're rolling with the punches.

2) I am not in a leadership position. I've been retired for around a year - keep up with the times, old man;

3) Grave is not a scumbag, he's just a bumbling idiot. That's also a mischaracterization of the events - he sent those during the period The Immortals were being rolled.

Edited September 9 by Daveth

[Cedar1]

Made a forum  account just to say nothing makes me happier than seeing Rose dog pile the F out of the syndicate. It's like seeing a beautiful eagle stealing a sweaty fat kids hot dog that he stole from an ice cream shop by sticking up the sweetest old lady cashier with a hacky sack ,in January , then seeing said eagle regurgitate said hot dog on the fat kid then taking a half digested mouse crap on the fat kids EGO. 

[Emperor Adam]

On 9/23/2024 at 9:11 PM, Cedar1 said:

Made a forum  account just to say nothing makes me happier than seeing Rose dog pile the F out of the syndicate. It's like seeing a beautiful eagle stealing a sweaty fat kids hot dog that he stole from an ice cream shop by sticking up the sweetest old lady cashier with a hacky sack ,in January , then seeing said eagle regurgitate said hot dog on the fat kid then taking a half digested mouse crap on the fat kids EGO. 

 

the eagle left the nest unguarded, it seems