Grave

Having to use excessive force on your low tiers just to have a fair fight where it matters is neither Rose's or Blackwater's fault

@KillzBob no more breaking the raiding rules for you, back into the dungeon you go.

Swamp did it first and better Edit: still noice I guess

Glad to see HW join the secret treaty bloc, None will never know what hit them.

So much for that huh I love all the strawman arguments from you, please show me where I said T$ has a worse Milcom than TI. Or where I said that you were a bad alliance , Nice deflection from the updeclare experience comment though. Widely regarded as incompetent? " we were wrong you guys aren't bad you don't need Rose to fight us " -Parti, gw16 Not an exact quote but is the jist of what was discussed in Swamps declaration thread. Me and Hidude actually argued about extremely little, been too busy dealing with trolls *cough cough* to have a civil conversation with him BABAI aka Ant Man has been crying about TI since we killed the alliance he was in in November 2019, I can't even remember the name even because they were so small and irrelevant. P.S: Competent players stopped claiming TI is incompetent since atleast gw16 , if you still are its just a projection of your own incompetence

I'm pretty much done myself, outside of pointing out (and I already said this aswell) I spent the entire war compromising on practically every front and would say that our actual strategy was much closer to the failed strategy Hidude explained then the one I wanted to go with . P.s its rich having an alliance that hasn't had to mass updeclare in 4+ years talk to the alliance who has spent their entire existence using mass updeclares on how to mass updeclare .

Nice misquote, you forgot to add the 'at all' there as I stated you can still bolster your warchest much better and longer than a c15 for example. You can't take away the breathing room while they still have warchest, which would be drained faster with beiging (and as I mentioned would only be granted to the lucky few of our own whales that could secure a war win and agaisnt those who have no chance of denting the advantage in the low teir in last war. You have 0 situational awareness, we are talking about 3 massive updecalres here, as long as the whale can double buy there is no 'Neutering ' a player (Speaking of which how many people actually use this term primarily over "pinning" or "siting" or "holding down " ) This line of thinking was the opposite of everything we did from the start. Please show me where I said we would predict and catch a mass beige exit? I simply said that in the tiers we would allow beige, there is more than enough people to fight back any attempts to mass beige exit, however unlikely that has proven to be a viable tactic in action . Ah yes, it definitely wasn't the 4k infra nations you were hitting while getting slotted 10 seconds before turn change that you came out Please also tell me, how many meaningful mass beige exits you had. I wouldn't even mention gw16 if I was you, its living proof of the last nail in the coffin for your argument I literally said we'd start pulling down people c25+ with updeclare cycling when the lower teirs were placated with repeated raids and we made you use your alliance warchests on those who would use them least efficiently. Already replied too Already mentioned this is only the case when both sides have close to equal average city counts. You seem to not understand that is not some crafty metaphor, but if you are logging into your alliance members accounts and fighting for them, you should DM alex about that, heard he's giving a cash prize too whomever is using the most accounts .

Before I start replying I know this will be fun, the hate you've seethed for TI since 2019 has been laughable. First, where did I say they are fully self sufficient? just much more so than the 3 people updeclaring. Secondly my point is that its faster at the start to drain their warchest while killing infra before moving to cycling. Another strawman, what a surprise. I already mentioned before that an alliance bank will ultimately still use those resources. Whether they have to wait for one side to get semi-bored to do so is another question. Thirdly, you didn't read anything guess. TI had one of the lowest beige rates in the coalition, 5.38~% to be exact. "orders like "Find people in range and declare". You didn't need to have proper coordination at all to do that." Projecting much? that's all I've seen from the alliances you've gotten rolled with your mouth. "anything above c25 didn't need to overextend solely because you still outnumbered the enemy in the c25-c30 region and had almost similar numbers above that." Our numbers above c30 were very misleading for a number of reasons, if Hollywood focused only on fighting nations like I expected, the disputed teir would've been around c23 by the end of round 1 Btw I called the cope insults towards TI at the start "Maybe fight in a "war" which isn't a dogpile for once so you can understand how literal shit the strategy you explained here was." What an well thought out comment, because this is definitely a any situation strategy and not specifically for when you outnumber a bunch of whales /sarcasm

You seem to not understand that it is still longer that they have any additional resources both nation warchest and income if you aren't beiging, Secondly its not blanket beigeing, its very clear that 80-90% of those above c25 weren't going to win any non-raid wars and would have no affect on the updeclares who would start pulling people down below the beige teir, I stated at the start that the beige strategy in different teirs should be different. One of my other points is that it is not neutering a whale to beige cycle first round. They can fight 5+ rounds of war under blockade with little problem. Those 5 rounds can either last 10 days worth of wars or 25 days worth of wars. The teirs that we would be giving mass beige too are the ones who would get slotted less than an hour after leaving beige at a 4/5-1 advantage Show me one war where at that disadvantage anyone has been able to make any meaningful counter attacks (Militarilly not net damage). Your last point makes no sense at all, the only way you'd miss 5 buys is if your nations are not declaring other wars, which if they don't... i don't know what to tell you, I can't press the buttons for them.

Lot more work to explain what I disagree with than to say I agree with something that had been explained, I already mentioned the 3 things I had the most problems with and it ended up being a lengthy post in itself

Lastly, it is anecdotal evidence but... Despite being very vocally against the blanket no beige order. I maintained it in the alliance strategy and we had one of the lowest rates of beige in the coalition after the order was given. 2nd if looking at more than 100 wars, 1% worse than Rose, whom understandably (Teiring, militarization, focus from Hollywood) had many less opportunities to win the wars they were in. Its hard to play devils advocate and tell an alliance member that is looking for help when getting hit hard to do something you don't agree with. But the value of coalition co-ordination is worth it

Also just to be clear, I do agree with points Rose's militarization Building ships Cordination Meatshields Weakest link Early blitz on oblivion (not going to lie it was meant to be a coalition wide hit on oblivion but just ended up being rose suiciders with TI/TFP updeclares) Most of flawed strategy (will get into that at the bottom) Planes only Lack of unified bloc strategy (in action not on paper ) Built up nations doing nothing And spy participation I can't speak on many of the Inter-alliance parts as I'm not in those alliances. In regards to the strategy I definitely agree there needed to be a lot more updeclares overall. If I was solely dictating the coalition strategy we would've attempted to split the higher teirs from the lower teirs by beigeing all enemies below c25 at the start with attrition wars creating as much space as possible for those in the saveable teirs (c25-30), working up with updeclares that can't be countered by the teirs Hollywood had an advantage in. All above c25 would overextend and deal as much Damage as possible, (which many in TI did, Tyrion being the biggest and best at it) with the option to beige if they get the chance to encourage as many attacks as possible. We would slowly raise this if most of our nations within those city counts are now safe from high teir Slotting and keep doing that until we couldn't move higher. Much easier said than done but in a perfect world 😅

That was actually what I did want to mention before my phone was about to die, I don't think anyone would disagree that Quack wasn't any less competent than Hollywood is and I don't think Roasis inc is any less competent than the gw16 coalition was. I also want to say that I believe that cycling is meant to break the will of someone already beaten down, and that slapping a blockade on a c30 nation Making 25m+ a day despite 5/5/5/3 with ample warchest in round 1 and cycling will increase the time it takes for their income can no longer support them . I do understand that it allows them to be replenished with resources from the alliance bank but (in my opinion atleast) that should be a secondary goal of any war.

Oh no on the contrary actually was very proud to see that 2 of the 3 individuals you praised are TI members. Its simply differences in strategy, one of the reasons I don't want to make a full post is because I already know I'm in the minority on a few topics For example (this is also a reply to Thalmor) , I will mention that I there was 2 entirely different fronts in this war (based on nation score /city count ) and that the strategy shouldn't have been the same for our c5s as our C30+s Secondly will mention that (and this is probably the most controversial point, any teir that "Roasis inc" had a huge advantage in (pretty much everywhere below c20 ) shouldn't have been under a no beige policy. I haven't been around for long but I have yet to see any alliance, regardless of competency, overcome a 3-1 or greater disadvantage. (Militarilly not net damage) and make any meaningful attempts at turning it around Will continue later as my phones at 2%

Oh no, I agree It went abysmally but not for these reasons ( for the most part)

I will mention that the specific TI member who repeatedly accepted peace after getting hit obviously wasn't following any form of orders 🥲

Where to even start on how much is wrong with this. Too much to bother making an equally sized or larger post just to do that really.

P.S: I used an old flag that included KT, since they are fighting us via proxy

Intentionally*

LMAO is your suggestion that we don't hit you? Because that just means even less targets

You act like its our fault there is now one more megasphere that needs to be stopped to have minispheres

0/10, very displeased and disappointed with this DOW Because now it's going to be impossible to find targets 🤣

You're hitting us? Didn't notice.

Surprised your last 4 braincells could come up with that one. We (Oasis) thought we were your target right up to daychange then we thought we were only one of your targets. And we still have no reason to believe that wasn't the case given Hedge's attitude over the past month But Please tell us how you had absolutely no co-operation with eachother prior to the moment your treaty was posted.

10/10 quality thread