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Corpsman

Murder of Floyd and the Rioting that Followed

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The murder of George Floyd was a tragedy and the officer should be punished.

The rioting is unacceptable, and rioters should be arrested.

People of Orbis, what are your thoughts?

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19 hours ago, Corpsman said:

-snip-

The rioting is unacceptable, and rioters should be arrested.

-snip-

You cannot arrest people when it was in the thousands lol.

I do agree all riots & lootings were wrong & all who have passed due to situations like these would not want this.  Even almost all who have fought for most of us to have liberty would not want us to do what we they have been doing.  The government is not really on the right side of things either. Tbh there are also a lot of BLM extremists in protest/riots/lootings as well as white supremacists in the government.  Then there are the ALM group which has a mix of extremists & supremacists. But the majority of us ALM are like me & you Corps.  We are judged/assumed thou to be w/ those extremists & supremacists no matter how many times we state our true emotion, bias, & facts.

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1 hour ago, Firwof Kromwell said:

You cannot arrest people when it was in the thousands lol.

I do agree all riots & lootings were wrong & all who have passed due to situations like these would not want this.  Even almost all who have fought for most of us to have liberty would not want us to do what we they have been doing.  The government is not really on the right side of things either. Tbh there are also a lot of BLM extremists in protest/riots/lootings as well as white supremacists in the government.  Then there are the ALM group which has a mix of extremists & supremacists. But the majority of us ALM are like me & you Corps.  We are judged/assumed thou to be w/ those extremists & supremacists no matter how many times we state our true emotion, bias, & facts.

This is factually incorrect. You claim alot of BLM are extremists when in fact the vast majority of looters are looting/rioting for another cause and merely jumping on the BLM bandwagon as a chance to cause havoc. Also ALM are not assumed to be extremists and supremacists, merely racist because at this moment, it is black lives most severely endangered, not white or other non-black races. ALM is used by people who claim they favour equality, but in reality it takes the focus off of black suffering and suggests all races are treated in such a way which is simply not true. Quoting stats like 50% of police killings are white is completely disproportionate to population and shows ignorance of those who support ALM. As the celebrity Seth Rogen said, frick you if you support ALM

I do however agree with the main gist of this. Rioters should be arrested where possible as they are not helping the BLM movement and attacking shops and businesses will not support it in the long term, only cause the middle classes to turn away from violence as they have historically. Donations and petitions are needed

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10 minutes ago, PartyAvocado said:

You claim alot of BLM are extremists....merely jumping on the BLM bandwagon as a chance to cause havoc. Also ALM are not assumed to be extremists/supremacists, merely racist because it is black lives most severely endangered, not white or other non-black races. ALM is used by people who claim they favour equality, but in reality it takes the focus off of black suffering and suggests all races are treated in such way. Quoting stats...shows ignorance of those who support ALM. As the celebrity Seth Rogen said, frick you if you support ALM

I do however agree with the main gist of this. Rioters should be arrested where possible as they are not helping the BLM movement and attacking shops and businesses will not support it in the long term, only cause the middle classes to turn away from violence as they have historically. Donations and petitions are needed

Bold--Agree   Underline--Disagree   Italic--Between   

1. That statement is partially contradicting what you are claiming. Some of those skipping onto the wagon are extremist wanting havoc cause they either have past/present issues against their family/friends/ancestry, want to prove right in their ideals values & beliefs, have a grudge against the government/military/police/etc, or miscellaneous. 

2. It is not racist to support all people no matter what the division is. This statement itself is hypocritically ignorant to all other races/people.  Mostly everyone goes through endangerment at some point of there life in every shape & form (But then there is being over-sensitive/insecure).

3.  This statement is also hypocritically ignorant to all other races/people.  Yes I admit it takes the focus off blacks. Yet all races can be treat the same way in different areas of the globe & in different situations. Blacks are not the only race to get bullied in the world. Historically in the Americas, Natives & Blacks got the majority of coverage of being kicked around yet we sill fought among each other too.  Historically too, there have been more disputes, wars, & scrambling between whites cause we create the majority of the population in the world too. Then whites have also started more wars against other races too. Anyways, if we keep the focus on just one group of people then only than one group gets privilege.  When we focus on everyone as a whole, we learn how to we need to equalize everyone onto the same level. But achieving the goal were ALM is way harder than focusing on one set of people.

I understand we both agree on the overall appeal. I do also understand once we start making one race matter alongside each other, one by one, then all lives matter.  If one knows that BLM & works slowly to get all others to matter then thats great. Otherwise rejecting partially or fully the idea that all lives matter is naive, ignorant, & hypocritical itself. 

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Let's continue our debate from the previous forum @Hodor

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, Firwof Kromwell said:

I understand we both agree on the overall appeal. I do also understand once we start making one race matter alongside each other, one by one, then all lives matter.  If one knows that BLM & works slowly to get all others to matter then thats great. Otherwise rejecting partially or fully the idea that all lives matter is naive, ignorant, & hypocritical itself. 

I agree that all lives do matter. The problem I have is that the people I see stating that, are also the people I know who are racist (the kind of people who say "send the blacks home" and such) - obviously this then undermines the message.

At the end of the day we all bleed Red. It is stupid to belittle anyone because of race, creed or gender.

Edited by Robert Ap Ioan
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17 hours ago, Firwof Kromwell said:

I do agree all riots & lootings were wrong & all who have passed due to situations like these would not want this.  Even almost all who have fought for most of us to have liberty would not want us to do what we they have been doing.  

How did the United States gain it's independence again?

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4 hours ago, Robert Ap Ioan said:

I agree that all lives do matter. The problem I have is that the people I see stating that, are also the people I know who are racist (the kind of people who say "send the blacks home" and such) - obviously this then undermines the message.

At the end of the day we all bleed Red. It is stupid to belittle anyone because of race, creed or gender.

In my eyes, I love seeing people peacefully protest for the right to equality, equity, & justice as long as they are legally, socially, ethically, & morally good. Obviously some of the ways like looting, riots, & some protests were not really a good idea. The police involvement in certain situations was also wrong.  Walking/standing the streets alongside people supporting you w/ no fighting, just all of you wanting to be equals legally, socially, ethically, & morally is awesome.  Sad thing is there will always be differences between people but hopefully we can learn to cope & adjust to be able to work together.

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I'm pissed off that we could've had a great discussion on police overreach and brutality, but instead the media and bad-faith actors had to take over the narrative and make it a race issue. Then you have criminals going around ruining livelihoods and putting thousands out of work as we're in the worst economic situations in our history. Meanwhile, every celebrity, corporation, and a lot of politicians come out in support of the violence and it just drives me up the wall. We live in a clown country. 

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2 hours ago, Thalmor said:

I'm pissed off that we could've had a great discussion on police overreach and brutality, but instead the media and bad-faith actors had to take over the narrative and make it a race issue. Then you have criminals going around ruining livelihoods and putting thousands out of work as we're in the worst economic situations in our history. Meanwhile, every celebrity, corporation, and a lot of politicians come out in support of the violence and it just drives me up the wall. We live in a clown country. 

Taking applicants to Canada yet?

We have our own issues as well, but we will be happy to discuss that over some drinks and hockey.

Peace and love from Canada to you and the Yanks in these times.

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Well what happened to George Floyd is very sad , heartbreaking & inhuman of the Culprit who performed such heinous deed however, the riots & violent protests is not the solution especially when the world is affected by Covid-19 on a large scale , i think that looting & burning malls,shops,stores etc will not going to solve this problem but will only hurt the tax payer & general people more for the compensation of the damages, as economists are predicting that there could be a Global Recession so instead of doing such terrible acts people must form communities & do constructive discussions using proper law & order on how to solve this problem as peacefully as possible & how to prevent it's occurrence in future also, the people need to understand that not every white person is racist but due to some bad individuals (which exists on both sides) they are also been seeing as same that's also sad ,so in my opinion people should think on What exactly they want to achieve with these violent protests as they are bad to all the people living in USA , and i think the only solution to these problems is to have open minded discussions with constructive thoughts rather than burning & spreading hate against each other as the people who are damaging property are also breaking the law and order using George Floyd as a shield , also we live in 21 st century so let's not fight each other just because of skin color, gender, race ,caste, religion we are all human and sent on earth for a purpose to help each other & make it better so let's end hate & petty issues and work together to improve each others life .

Thanks

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See, something that ticks me off, is people saying that black people are naturally poor.

That's pretty racist tbh. But, oh God forbid, a black man is poor? It's just cuz he's black.

No. The issue in the United States is not as much race as many think. Plenty of poor, white, junkies get abused by police forces. Nobody freaks out nearly as much, cuz they white. The issue is economic. Plenty of rich black people and poor white people.

I also still have yet to believe that George Floyd was killed for his color, and not some other dispute between the officer and him. That officer was terrible, he should have been fired long ago. But the previous police brutality charges against him were by white and black people. He wasn't racist, just shitty.



 

On 6/4/2020 at 6:55 AM, James XVI said:

How did the United States gain it's independence again?

I hope you aren't suggesting we start killing whoever disagrees with us.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Corpsman said:

See, something that ticks me off, is people saying that black people are naturally poor.

That's pretty racist tbh. But, oh God forbid, a black man is poor? It's just cuz he's black.

No. The issue in the United States is not as much race as many think. Plenty of poor, white, junkies get abused by police forces. Nobody freaks out nearly as much, cuz they white. The issue is economic. Plenty of rich black people and poor white people.

I recommend reading about red-lining, COINTELPRO, federally funded crack epidemic, ghettos, stop-and-frisk of minorities, and more. The federal United States has done a lot to frick over black Americans and by extension their children, and it's coming of a place of ignorance or malice to say racism is not as much of an issue. The "justice" and private prison system in the US is awful to everyone who isn't rich, but poor black Americans are the most mistreated under it.

Edited by Nadya Iwakura
Sheepy, I'm not allowed to say "frick"?
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On 6/27/2020 at 9:58 PM, Nadya Iwakura said:

I recommend reading about red-lining, COINTELPRO, federally funded crack epidemic, ghettos, stop-and-frisk of minorities, and more. The federal United States has done a lot to frick over black Americans and by extension their children, and it's coming of a place of ignorance or malice to say racism is not as much of an issue. The "justice" and private prison system in the US is awful to everyone who isn't rich, but poor black Americans are the most mistreated under it.

I shall read up on all of that now, and I will get back to you. I still highly doubt it though, as why would the government go out of its way to make more of the citizens hate it? On paper, there usually is no legal difference between a black man and a white man (the few cases there are, it is actually in black people's favor such as Affirmative Action). So why would the government, a very bureaucratic and automated system now a-days, target specific people only to detriment the government itself. It seems against common sense. 

And ghettos are not exclusively black either.

And yeah, you can't say frick.

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On 6/27/2020 at 9:58 PM, Nadya Iwakura said:

I recommend reading about red-lining, COINTELPRO, federally funded crack epidemic, ghettos, stop-and-frisk of minorities, and more. The federal United States has done a lot to frick over black Americans and by extension their children, and it's coming of a place of ignorance or malice to say racism is not as much of an issue. The "justice" and private prison system in the US is awful to everyone who isn't rich, but poor black Americans are the most mistreated under it.

I read up on it.

Red-lining doesn't make sense, because if a bank doesn't want to give someone a loan they don't have to. Then they miss out. No loans=no interest=no profit. There is obviously another reason that you don't see, why would someone not loan out to a man that can pay it back? Now, if said man cannot pay it back then they don't loan to them. To be blunt, there is something other than racism that isn't studied in "red-lining".

COINTELPRO was a pretty shitty thing done by the US government. But frick you if you think that it was racist. They attacked the Black Panthers as much as the Ku Klux Klan. They were not justified, but they weren't racist either. They targeted anyone against the government, white or black.

The "federally funded crack epidemic" is bs. It was shipped from Columbia by drug traffickers. There is no evidence that the U.S Government backed it in any way shape or form.

Ghettos, as I said, are not exclusively black. They are poor. Ghettos have no issue of their own, they have healthcare, education, law enforcement, and elected representatives. If everyone in a "inner city neighborhood" left (and took their graffiti, trash, and drugs with them) it would look like any other part of that city. The issue is the people in that neighborhood, not the neighborhood itself.

"Stop-And-Frisk" of minorities I can't provide any evidence against, so I will give you that one. I couldn't find many reliable sources on it and I hear about it a lot so fine, cops check minorities more often. Tbh I don't blame them. The majority of police officers feloniously killed on duty is by black men https://www.fbi.gov/services/cjis/ucr/leoka.
I don't think it is justified exactly, but it makes some sense.

I do love having these debates by the way.
 

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17 hours ago, Corpsman said:

Red-lining doesn't make sense, because if a bank doesn't want to give someone a loan they don't have to. Then they miss out. No loans=no interest=no profit. There is obviously another reason that you don't see, why would someone not loan out to a man that can pay it back? Now, if said man cannot pay it back then they don't loan to them. To be blunt, there is something other than racism that isn't studied in "red-lining".

...

Ghettos, as I said, are not exclusively black. They are poor. Ghettos have no issue of their own, they have healthcare, education, law enforcement, and elected representatives. If everyone in a "inner city neighborhood" left (and took their graffiti, trash, and drugs with them) it would look like any other part of that city. The issue is the people in that neighborhood, not the neighborhood itself.

I think you miss the point. Poor people of today, left with little, are often the result of the inequalities of yesterday. The racist generalizations that people of minorities were "less trustworthy" stem from long ago, and thus minority families were then given less opportunities. Minority neighborhoods have faced inequality throughout history, including Romani families, Jewish families, and black American families, it is not the fault of the people in ghettos that they were disenfranchised from voting rights, given less power over themselves than others, and given less opportunities in education, in getting paying jobs, receiving loans, and more. This led to many minority neighborhoods becoming poor, with less access to education, being exploited by corporations, among other sad realities. Moving into a neighborhood where they are the racial minority is also dangerous because they are targeted by people who are raised with these racist generalizations, that are less compassionate towards them for their generally lower class and status.

17 hours ago, Corpsman said:

COINTELPRO was a pretty shitty thing done by the US government. But frick you if you think that it was racist. They attacked the Black Panthers as much as the Ku Klux Klan. They were not justified, but they weren't racist either. They targeted anyone against the government, white or black.

Excuse me? The government of the time was racist and ripe with segregation, COINTELPRO was a mechanism to keep that government in order by snuffing out resistance. The people rising in protest, that were targeted by the FBI in COINTELPRO, were against the authoritarianism, racism, segregation, the taking of land from American Indian tribes, and more. The FBI, who worked in the interest of the government, were clearly fighting to continue these practices by targeting activists within these communities. They tried to make Martin Luther King Jr. kill himself. If that isn't racist, then your worldview is clearly blocking some vital stream of information from you.

17 hours ago, Corpsman said:

The "federally funded crack epidemic" is bs. It was shipped from Columbia by drug traffickers. There is no evidence that the U.S Government backed it in any way shape or form.

Some of the drug traffickers were counter-resistance groups backed by the CIA, which leads to the connection.

17 hours ago, Corpsman said:

"Stop-And-Frisk" of minorities I can't provide any evidence against, so I will give you that one. I couldn't find many reliable sources on it and I hear about it a lot so fine, cops check minorities more often. Tbh I don't blame them. The majority of police officers feloniously killed on duty is by black men https://www.fbi.gov/services/cjis/ucr/leoka.
I don't think it is justified exactly, but it makes some sense.

Ever take the time to think of why? Being out of opportunities drives many poor people to crime, and America has a history of denying opportunities to minorities. Suicide rates and crime rates increase in poverty. They stop minorities more because they usually have less opportunities to survive. The rate at which black people are killed by police is also higher than white people killed by police.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/06/04/economic-divide-black-households/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/investigations/police-shootings-database/

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