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[MULTIPLE] GOONS On Vacation


Do Not Fear Jaz
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3 hours ago, Odin said:

image.png.799e313c2da1f2848c8cab60595e37ab.png

One can find negative connotations everywhere if one wants. Great White North. Sounds like a Nazi plan as well. 

 

And some here are right, Afrika Korps is of course a product of the Third Reich, and some of our artworks are based on it. In that context AK could be conflicting with the "No Nazi related" names rule. But the Afrika Korps wasn't a political SS Unit, but a branch of the Army. See Wikipedia

image.png.29df6e88e82ced28640e60b106ffb48a.png

That name isn't forbidden anywhere. We're not using a Swastika or any other forbidden symbol as well. Using here german laws, which are the hardest anti-nazi laws world wide. 

By the standard of treating the word "Afrika Korps" as a political name of the NSDAP, we can as well treat the word "Luftwaffe" the same. Both have their origin in the time between 1933 and 1945. Luftwaffe was re-used and is still the name of the current german air force. 

Let the tears in your eyes for a moment. Africa and Corps, those word combines can't be the reason some here are unable to sleep in peace right? If so, please DM me, and we can talk about it, even about a rename. We're very tolerant in that regard and will find a solution together.

 

I for one find the Mongol theme extremely offending. They offensively attacked the Knights Templar first, and no one complains about that, because... uh... 

Because it doesn't matter. As i wrote in the beginning. You can find everywhere offensive things if you want or if it's you hobby as Internet Warrior. 

image.thumb.png.76c8799ccb25f677474e49fcc8aa97ee.png

 

And the child slave thing that Migraine wrote... It was stupid bullshit, written by 1 member of an alliance. Even tho it serves to enhance the bad reputation of an already super evil organisation, i'd prefer to treat people as individuums, no generalizing everyone ;)

So basically imagery and actions as close to Nazi as possible without breaking the rules, hmm yes much better

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2 hours ago, Of The Flies said:

So basically imagery and actions as close to Nazi as possible without breaking the rules, hmm yes much better

Yeah I'm not 100% on board with defending AK's flags when we know what they're basing it on lol

5 hours ago, Odin said:

And the child slave thing that Migraine wrote... It was stupid bullshit, written by 1 member of an alliance. Even tho it serves to enhance the bad reputation of an already super evil organisation, i'd prefer to treat people as individuums, no generalizing everyone ;)

...Except he's still in AK. This line would only work if you had made any effort to boot him

Edited by Archibald
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34 minutes ago, Archibald said:

..Except he's still in AK. This line would only work if you had made any effort to boot him

Thought they had initially, they were briefly dropped to applicant but appear to be reinstated as a full member.

Alas, scum attracts scum.

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4 hours ago, CandyShi said:

I think removing the swatstika below the palm tree doesn’t change the fact that it’s the source material. 

 

46 minutes ago, Archibald said:

Yeah I'm not 100% on board with defending AK's flags when we know what they're basing it on lol

And i think it does. It makes it a simple palm. The flag itself is based off the Third Reich war flag, which is based off the Imperial Navy flag, which is based off the flag of the Teutonic Order, which is based of the Cross of Jesu with an imperial eagle on it, which itself again has a roman origin. 

4 hours ago, CandyShi said:

the fact is that if you google Afrika Korps you get a swatsika

What's your problem with AK? I don't see a AK member anywhere riding the "KT man bad" train? 

Shout out to KT here, you're the good guys ;)

 

52 minutes ago, Archibald said:

...Except he's still in AK. This line would only work if you had made any effort to boot him

We boot when we boot. Our decisions to boot members isn't influenced by NPCs.

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5 hours ago, CandyShi said:

And I think you missed the point where we specifically point to the more commonly known 12th century military order.

No, I saw it. But that was dealt with in an earlier post since literally every group that uses Templar imagery derives it from the original 12th century military order.  It's how it's used (and the resulting baggage it possesses it modern culture) that is relevant to our discussion.

5 hours ago, CandyShi said:

I’m starting to suspect that you’re not actually reading previous posts but, as was pointed out, the popularity of Islamic imagery among far (?) groups is due to its anti Christian/pro Islamic connotations, which is certainly popular among people who also fall into the traditional category of ‘terrorists’ (Like Al Queda for example) but isn’t confined to a specific ethnic group.


Is my religious viewpoint (or lack thereof) relevant then? I’m an atheist and I don’t see any problems either, I’ve associated the Templar theme with bravery, courage, and the determination to fail 9 times and try again. 

Dragging in a non sequitur about Islamic terrorism when the topic under discussion is the co-option of Templar imagery by individuals with anti-Islamic dispositions doesn't really strengthen your case.  Hate doesn't justify hate, so even if your point was relevant (and it's not in the context of this discussion) the existence of Islamist extremism still wouldn't justify anti-Islamic violence from mass murderers like Breivik or hate speech from groups like the Knights Templar International.

Anyways, if you want to identify with a medieval military order that doesn't have the same far right baggage that the Knights Templar do, may I suggest the Knights Hospitaller?  

They have neat heraldy...

6272234623_7b7879e216_c.jpg

...don't have the same popularity among far right extremists that the Knights Templar do and even had their own country for a while...

Territories_of_the_Knights_Hospitaller_1

...it's win-win.

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7 hours ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

Okay, even assuming that what @Curufinwe posted wasn't true (it probably is true) that doesn't change the fact they named their alliance after an order that was responsible for the Crusades. That's mass murder too, with rape and pillaging to boot! All in the name of a phoney religion led by a Pope, Bishops and Priests that have consistently been caught molesting little boys even in the 20th century. Congratulations, you played yourself.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_Templar

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades

I even left you links, since you clearly need them.

The Knight Templars isen't responsible for the Crusades, i take it you didn't actually read the wiki articles you posted?

The frist Crusade was started in the year 1096, the Knight Templars was frist founded twenty years later, in 1119. 
And you are also ignoring the fact the Crusades wasen't offensives in nature, they where counter offensives. Launched to hault the muslim invasions of the Orthodox Christian, Byzantine Empire, that had been losing land to invading muslims since the 7th century. The Crusades was a respond to 4 centuries of muslim invasions of christian land.
Here among the region of Levant, that you would better know as the Holy Land. But this wasen't the only region of former christian land they wanted to retake. The Byzatine Empire was able recover Anatolia, modern day Turkey from them, with the helps of the crusades. 

But the Byzantine Empire would eventual fall to the invasion of the Muslim turks, Constantinople, the greatest city on Earth finally fell in 1453, the battle where last Roman emperor would die fighting. 
When the Ottomans brought their new cannons to bear on the cities walls, that had stood for over a thousands years. 

The muslim invasions of Europe was frist finally ended in 1683, at the gates of Vienna. 

The goals of the Crusades was justified, from the Reconquista of Spain to attempt at retaking Levant and the other lost territory in Asia. Even the butchery that 4 Crusade ended up being, had started out on grounds to strengthen the Byzantiums, so they would be in a better position to retake and hold Jerusalem.
And the Church took responsible for that, where the pope excommunicated the entire crusader army.

It is only the Northern Crusades that wasen't justified, that was mainly used as an excuse to take over land and trade routes. And funny enough the Knight Templars didn't take part in it. 

tenor (1).gif

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43 minutes ago, Odin said:
We boot when we boot. Our decisions to boot members isn't influenced by NPCs.

Nice altright terminology bud.

But hey, if you want to be known as "the pedo clan" you do you

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1 hour ago, Curufinwe said:

But that was dealt with in an earlier post since literally every group that uses Templar imagery derives it from the original 12th century military order

Circular argument, of course every group that uses templar imagery uses templar imagery. 

 

Doesn’t mean the source material isn’t more well known, which isn’t the case with the swatstika. 

1 hour ago, Odin said:

What's your problem with AK? I don't see a AK member anywhere riding the "KT man bad" train? 

Shout out to KT here, you're the good guys ;)

I take you haven't read the thread.

 

 

1 hour ago, Odin said:

And i think it does. It makes it a simple palm.

Bullshit, their name is Afrika Korps. 
If their name was literally anything else it’d be unconnected.

 

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6 hours ago, CandyShi said:
6 hours ago, Curufinwe said:

is the flag of the Afrika Korps we're discussing.   I

I think removing the swatstika below the palm tree doesn’t change the fact that it’s the source material. 

In that context it does, Pika. The AK flag used has an Iron Cross with "Afrika Korps" written in it and a Palm in the center. The Pic you have posted is a Palm with a swastika. Remove the damn swastika from there and it's a simple palm. 

Source material of the swastika is btw from your home region. ;) 

 

5 minutes ago, CandyShi said:

I take you haven't read the thread.

I take you can't read at all. Or trying to search for problems where there are none. Where is even your personal problem with AK? I can see why you defend KT, and i help you doing that, but, my dear ex-alliance mate. If you suffer from seizures right now because some pictures on our alliance page are too hardcore, then please contact an admin.

 

10 minutes ago, CandyShi said:

Bullshit, their name is Afrika Korps. 
If their name was literally anything else it’d be unconnected.

 So? I admitted already that AK is connected, right in my first post in this thread here. I also said it's not indictable word anywhere in the world. 

Big surprise, we even have https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field_Marshal_Rommel_Barracks,_Augustdorf  Rommel barracks here (still that name, still in use.)

Not everything you assume as bad is actually bad. Do a simple google search for Afrika Korps War Crimes. I see you know how evil the Nazis were, you can read up here then: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_war_crimes_during_World_War_II . Yes, i know, a bit whataboutism, but only throw stones when you're free of sin as well. Ah right, you're Chinese. They were initially allied with the Nazis with support of von Falkenhausen. Current Mainland chinese are practically Nazis, ask anyone from HongKong.

 

And gg for complaining about the flag design.

image.png.56373ee98e4469b68f5d7bf83adfe1c4.png

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1 hour ago, Odin said:

Ah right, you're Chinese. They were initially allied with the Nazis with support of von Falkenhausen. Current Mainland chinese are practically Nazis, ask anyone from HongKong.

>Attacking me for being born Chinese? That’s the definition of racism bud. Thanks for proving my point.

(fyi I’ve lived in America my entire life, but I’m ethically Asian/Chinese) 

[redacted because I don’t want to get banned]

@Alex do your job. 

 

1 hour ago, Odin said:

see you know how evil the Nazis were, you can read up here then: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_war_crimes_during_World_War_II 

Yes I know about the Allied war crimes as well, the best example for me being Ex. Order 9066. 
 

Out of curiosity where were you born? You make it seem like you weren’t born in Europe, Australia, North America, South America, Asia, or Africa. Aftrr all you’re critical of anyone who’s had war crimes committed in their nations history that you must live in Antartica. 
 

1 hour ago, Odin said:

The Pic you have posted is a Palm with a swastika. Remove the damn swastika from there and it's a simple palm. 

If I remove the 50 stars from the US flag does it change the fact that it’s based on the US flag? Thank you for admitting that you considered the real AK flag when your flag was being created though.

 


 

1 hour ago, Odin said:

And gg for complaining about the flag design.

I only see the nordic cross there. Stop deviation from my actual concern, which was the palm tree.

Edited by CandyShi
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It's been said that "it's impossible to ignore the meaning attached to them (images) in modern culture when we're discussing the people and groups who use them."  I've not quoted the poster using the tab because this is meant as a general post.

My argument is that it is actually possible to ignore additional meanings that other people have attached to images and symbols, it is just about recognizing your own personal bias's and how they influence your view on the world.  That is not to say that it's a bad thing to feel revulsion for the nazi's when looking at a swastika, but that does not make a person posting a swastika a nazi.  To dig a little deeper into bias's, we all have them, and they are largely a product of the culture(s) within which we have existed, and not necessarily anything we have control over.  By extension this mandates that we show respect to each-other up until the point where it is unequivocal that another holds a demeaning and wholly unacceptable position or belief, at which unpleasant point it becomes a mod issue and we can exercise our inherent right in life to then ignore that person(s).  At no point ought we sacrifice the higher ground and devolve into name calling or ridicule when dealing with heavy issues such as this.

We are a geographically and culturally spread out group of people on this forum, and associations that we as individuals, or even a large group of us may have with certain imagery are not necessarily globally held.  Targeting a person or group of people based on such flimsy information that we garner from this forum, usually demonstrates an ignorance equal to that inherent in the groups we purportedly (and loudly) detest.  We should all exercise great care before calling out someone as a nazi, racist, homophobe etc. because the implications can be dire for that person.

As an aside I am not a believer in suppressing historical images for the purposes of protecting an individual's sensitivities.  Firstly we can un-link a person's belief system (political or otherwise) from a posted image because the connections you make are subjective (note I did not say untrue), and secondly suppressing images and ideas will not eradicate the past and nor should we be trying to achieve this.  I for one believe the holocaust should be fully remembered in as much detail as possible as an atrociously inhumane part of human history and will acknowledge that it was those specific people involved at the time who held those beliefs and carried out those detestable actions (probably not some dude in PnW Afrika Korps).  And finally none of us should want to miss out on one of life's most important lessons, that the world is an insensitive and unfair place to live, however we must do our utmost at all times to make the best of it (by this I mean 'toughen up princess').

One last thing is that I do hope that people on here are above "cursory google searches", when informing their posts on such a potentially inflammatory issue, as you will find what you seek, but not usually illumination.

Celer Et Audax

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Guest Karl VII

Generally Nazi imagery is being used pretty often, online by edgelords offline by actual companies like Disney (The Empire in Star Wars heavily borrows from Nazi aesthetics) and Marvel (Hydra) for "cool looking villians which will earn us a lot of money when we sell merchandise" reasons. I hope i don't have to explain why making fashs look cool is actually not cool at all, especially these days when fashism as an ideology is becoming relevant again. Actually really fricked up. Same goes for Afrika Korps, yes even if they are BK allies. frick em.

 

Edited by Karl VII
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On 10/16/2019 at 12:12 PM, CandyShi said:

And before you default to “hurr KT white supremacist”... I’m Asian. 

Lmfao, and before you default to "hurr AK white supremacist"... I'm black. 

So let's all pull out our race cards.

 

Edited by Khai Jäger
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42 minutes ago, Khai Jäger said:

Lmfao, and before you default to "hurr AK white supremacist"... I'm black. 

So let's all pull out our race cards.

 

I don't think anybody really cares, considering KT is apparently still racist, white supremacist islamphobes, despite having non-whites and muslims as members.

Given that the popular opinion insisted upon KT is that those people are just self hating, i don't see why you can't be either. Amon from OFA is a black jew, but there were still screencaps of him being 100% serious and praising hitler. 

So, uh, yeah. Stop hating yourself, :P❤️

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"well, ackshually, if you look at all our nazi imagery in isolation, then each object has a perfectly reasonable non-nazi meaning. did you know the swastika was a hindu symbol long before it became associated with the nsdap? it's just a huge coincidence that we're using all this iconography with links to the nazi regime - we're actually just interested in their completely disparate non-nazi histories, honest!"

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Guest Viva Miriya

Why do you all suck? Yes you, pubbie.

On 10/16/2019 at 9:20 PM, Etatsorp said:

It's been said that "it's impossible to ignore the meaning attached to them (images) in modern culture when we're discussing the people and groups who use them."  I've not quoted the poster using the tab because this is meant as a general post.

My argument is that it is actually possible to ignore additional meanings that other people have attached to images and symbols, it is just about recognizing your own personal bias's and how they influence your view on the world.  That is not to say that it's a bad thing to feel revulsion for the nazi's when looking at a swastika, but that does not make a person posting a swastika a nazi.  To dig a little deeper into bias's, we all have them, and they are largely a product of the culture(s) within which we have existed, and not necessarily anything we have control over.  By extension this mandates that we show respect to each-other up until the point where it is unequivocal that another holds a demeaning and wholly unacceptable position or belief, at which unpleasant point it becomes a mod issue and we can exercise our inherent right in life to then ignore that person(s).  At no point ought we sacrifice the higher ground and devolve into name calling or ridicule when dealing with heavy issues such as this.

We are a geographically and culturally spread out group of people on this forum, and associations that we as individuals, or even a large group of us may have with certain imagery are not necessarily globally held.  Targeting a person or group of people based on such flimsy information that we garner from this forum, usually demonstrates an ignorance equal to that inherent in the groups we purportedly (and loudly) detest.  We should all exercise great care before calling out someone as a nazi, racist, homophobe etc. because the implications can be dire for that person.

As an aside I am not a believer in suppressing historical images for the purposes of protecting an individual's sensitivities.  Firstly we can un-link a person's belief system (political or otherwise) from a posted image because the connections you make are subjective (note I did not say untrue), and secondly suppressing images and ideas will not eradicate the past and nor should we be trying to achieve this.  I for one believe the holocaust should be fully remembered in as much detail as possible as an atrociously inhumane part of human history and will acknowledge that it was those specific people involved at the time who held those beliefs and carried out those detestable actions (probably not some dude in PnW Afrika Korps).  And finally none of us should want to miss out on one of life's most important lessons, that the world is an insensitive and unfair place to live, however we must do our utmost at all times to make the best of it (by this I mean 'toughen up princess').

One last thing is that I do hope that people on here are above "cursory google searches", when informing their posts on such a potentially inflammatory issue, as you will find what you seek, but not usually illumination.

who the frick are you to be posting up dissertation style bullshit?

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