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Keelan Kyle

I'm sure nobody cares

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Well, since we are still not top 50 (number 60 at the time of this posting) I'm sure this won't matter to most people here. But, our beloved leader IPanzerDerpI has officially stepped down. He was a great leader, and a big reason we have been successful. He will still be a member, possibly working part time in Internal Affairs, however, he says that since he can not be as active as he should, he wants to step down. He wants a new leader to take his place, that can be more active, and provide more support to our alliance. He really did help us grow so much, and his service is much appreciated. His successor will be MLG_LEGEND420 (He's not as cringey as his username suggest). I wish him the best of luck as a new leader, and I look forward to working with him. Our alliance info page HAS been updated. 

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6 minutes ago, Charlie Traveler said:

I thought this was about to be the saddest post on the OWF from the title...

It is :(

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protip, tell others they should care and let them decide.

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My name's Blurryface and I care what you think

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Hey, the #78 alliance on score is this one, so don't ever think that low score means low relevance.

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1 minute ago, Sir Scarfalot said:

Hey, the #78 alliance on score is this one, so don't ever think that low score means low relevance.

>Fraggle is relevant.
Nukes don't do shit lol
We already saw that last war.
 

Edited by TheShadow
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3 minutes ago, TheShadow said:

>Fraggle is relevant.
Nukes don't do shit lol
We already saw that last war.
 

Nukes are very, very effective in the right circumstances; at Fraggle's tier, most players have over 2500 infra. Plus, Fraggle has exactly nothing available to loot and no infra damage to sustain, so any gross damage done is also net damage done. The failure of NB was primarily in loot, and their failure to completely commit to nuclear warfare as a strategy as opposed to their misguided efforts at attempting to wage conventional warfare well outside of their conventional score range.

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I support this change assuming that it was the old alliance leaders strategy to spam all large alliance leaders with stupid crap trying to get them to do any sort of alliance with you.

If this is your new leader's strategy, cut the shit and stop wasting our time, bring back the guy that didn't bother me with stupid messages.

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1 hour ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said:

I support this change assuming that it was the old alliance leaders strategy to spam all large alliance leaders with stupid crap trying to get them to do any sort of alliance with you.

If this is your new leader's strategy, cut the shit and stop wasting our time, bring back the guy that didn't bother me with stupid messages.

The OP is that guy...

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6 hours ago, Auctor said:

protip, tell others they should care and let them decide.

an even proer tip, tell people who have already informed you they don't care that they should care

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o/ MLG_LEGEND420!!

Time to bring home the bacon fam! 

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13 hours ago, Sir Scarfalot said:

Nukes are very, very effective in the right circumstances; at Fraggle's tier, most players have over 2500 infra. Plus, Fraggle has exactly nothing available to loot and no infra damage to sustain, so any gross damage done is also net damage done. The failure of NB was primarily in loot, and their failure to completely commit to nuclear warfare as a strategy as opposed to their misguided efforts at attempting to wage conventional warfare well outside of their conventional score range.

Nukes work better the more infra per city the enemy nation has, so it's especially effective for damaging whale nations. They also have a chance to destroy a power plant, which just exacerbates whatever damage was received, since you are now forced to rebuild enough infra and remove some improvements to get your city fully functional. Additionally, it's not likely a nuke can be stopped (rarely do people get VDS, because the chance for a successful block is so small it takes a very long time to pay off). Nukes start to lose a bit of its effectiveness, however, if you are nuking a nation who doesn't have high infra per city, since the damage caps at 90% of the infra. 

Also, NB was mostly whales (which would have made them equally vulnerable to nukes themselves) and stockpiled a huge amount of nukes. Their net damage was significantly reduced because their nukes were getting spied on a daily basis. It's easier to just buy the nuke right before launching it so it has no chance of being spied off, unless they happen to be watching your nation with the espionage tab ready. That does limit how much you can launch a day, but it's steady and stable.

A setup like Fraggle's is a complete commitment to nuclear warfare, but her nation is constantly losing millions every day. While Fraggle can still continue to lob nukes even while she's bill-locked, without a steady supply of money she can't buy her nukes. If you're not Fraggle and you actually plan on buying back infra when you're done, you'll have to be prepared to have someone bail you out with a lot of money.

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9 hours ago, Verin said:

an even proer tip, tell people who have already informed you they don't care that they should care

A supreme protip, tell them they should be entirely neutral, neither caring nor not caring simultaneously

Edited by Felkey
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41 minutes ago, Anneal said:

Nukes work better the more infra per city the enemy nation has, so it's especially effective for damaging whale nations. They also have a chance to destroy a power plant, which just exacerbates whatever damage was received, since you are now forced to rebuild enough infra and remove some improvements to get your city fully functional. Additionally, it's not likely a nuke can be stopped (rarely do people get VDS, because the chance for a successful block is so small it takes a very long time to pay off). Nukes start to lose a bit of its effectiveness, however, if you are nuking a nation who doesn't have high infra per city, since the damage caps at 90% of the infra.

True on all counts. I still prefer missiles for most tactical purposes though since I can specifically target either the relatively expensive civil improvements or potentially more expensive and crippling military improvements.

41 minutes ago, Anneal said:

Also, NB was mostly whales (which would have made them equally vulnerable to nukes themselves) and stockpiled a huge amount of nukes. Their net damage was significantly reduced because their nukes were getting spied on a daily basis. It's easier to just buy the nuke right before launching it so it has no chance of being spied off, unless they happen to be watching your nation with the espionage tab ready. That does limit how much you can launch a day, but it's steady and stable.

Actually, there's a few things wrong here. NB was mostly 'whales' to a degree, sure, but the real problem was their nuke stockpiles. Each nuke increases one's score by 15 points, while doing exactly nothing to increase one's conventional warfare fighting capacity. This means that if you've got a nuke stockpile of 50, you're in range of opponents with potentially another two or three cities than you'd otherwise be facing. Their nukes were being spied, yes, but actually it's no longer possible to spy off freshly built nukes; nukes aren't vulnerable to spies until they've been around for over a day. It's almost always best to not stockpile and instead build on demand; so you're correct about that.

41 minutes ago, Anneal said:

A setup like Fraggle's is a complete commitment to nuclear warfare, but her nation is constantly losing millions every day. While Fraggle can still continue to lob nukes even while she's bill-locked, without a steady supply of money she can't buy her nukes. If you're not Fraggle and you actually plan on buying back infra when you're done, you'll have to be prepared to have someone bail you out with a lot of money.

I was confused about how the heck Fraggle was doing it myself for the longest time, but it turns out there's a really simple explanation:

You can build nukes and missiles while bill-locked!

In fact, you need only escape bill lock when you're actually going to launch, because you can't launch them while bill-locked. Fraggle need only pay a couple million in upkeep once per day, and even then only whilst actively at war, so 2-5 times per round. Meanwhile Fraggle is just sitting around at such a high score tier that any attempt at facing Fraggle in battle will be met with insane levels of damage. Across the raiders' entire alliance. And they won't break anything nor loot more than a couple thousand food.

As for infra, Fraggle actually can and does rebuild infra sometimes... it's just not really necessary, since all Fraggle is using the slots for is sacrificial buildings to sell for cash under blockade, and farms. Lots of farms. With crazy amounts of land. Honestly the only real counter to Fraggle's strategy is... ironically, nukes. Break the improvements, irradiate the farmland, but even if someone tried, they're just opening themselves up for an absolute goddamn massacre.

I've been seriously considering doing a similar strategy with missiles, but I'm not yet prepared to actually do it. I've got to produce my own aluminum/gas/munitions for my domestic missile production since I'm always under blockade, and refining resources doesn't happen under bill lock. And even if I did, I'd end up with a bunch of missiles.... yay? As much as I love them to tiny missile bits, anyone with low infrastructure/ID/non-attrition/turtle can potentially weather them way too efficiently for it to be actually valid as the only weapon to use. Nukes work much better as a main weapon; there's simply no counter other than not having anything in the first place. ...Or being Fraggle.

Edited by Sir Scarfalot

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17 hours ago, Auctor said:

protip, tell others they should care and let them decide.

Protip: tell other people they won't care to make them care ironically

Also this derailed into Scaralot's Missiles vs. the world sooner than expected

Edited by Epi
PS: Keegan, Triumvirates only work for 2.5 months max. Watch the Clock
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1 minute ago, Epi said:

Scarfalot's Missiles vs. the world

I like the way you put it ?

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So you cant launch nukes when bill locked?  If that is the case, stopping Fraggle is as easy as a single naval attack every 5 days, and then letting your spies do the rest of the work.

Also holy shit Anneal, learn to military before you post about military, so much of what you said above is wrong.

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115 nukes. Let's say 25 got spied. 3.5 billion in damages. Not bad for a single player. Frags would be stopped quick but she won't stop ever. Bow to the queen. Atom smiles 

Edited by Apeman
Props for frags

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