Popular Post Ogaden Posted September 23, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted September 23, 2016 (edited) Since noone who needs to do this will do this, I will do this for you: What went right: - BK was taken down heavily by UPN, NPO, HBE etc and at one point had less than 6000 planes. What went wrong: - The initial blitz by Rose was inadequate and ineffective. - The staggered offensive where alliances came in days later to join an offensive were generally too late to do any good, effectively the OO side fought you one at a time. - Not enough pressure was put on Mensa, allowing the heaviest hitter to operate at will. Mensa just moved from one front to another. - Once UPN and NPO had taken down BK, they did not move on to other fronts that were struggling, but waited for those fronts to fail then were blitzed by the tS/OO fronts who DID shift to BK front. Once BK was neutralized you guys should have shifted to TKR and Mensa. Instead you waited around and eventually TKR and Mensa came to you. - Fark/Alpha kept in reserve for 3 days while everyone was zeroed out, should have hit Mensa the same day Mensa came in. - Poor coordination of nations on many fronts. Most nations basically fighting by themselves. - No double-buys when alliances were relieved, for instance when Alpha and Fark hit Mensa, why didn't UPN and VE double-buy military? Why weren't those two events coordinated? UPN and VE defenders should have been ready to double-buy once their attacker was countered. - Reliance on nukes to make up for the failings above largely exacerbated them, beige shield. Edited September 23, 2016 by Ogaden 32 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Ole Posted September 23, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted September 23, 2016 Your wise words will fall on deaf ears. Its like reading poetry to a dog. 13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vack Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 I would like to give a huge hand to Oblivion for how good they've been, they volunteered to help, they've been coordinating with us non stop through the whole war and they dealt a ridiculously disproportionate amount of damage early on, all from about 6 members. Those guys were always a great team in Rose and I'm actually very happy they took the plunge into making their own alliance, big potential there. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Licorice Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 Considering the fact that they've lost 4 consecutive war (I count 168 day too), you'd think ParaCovenant would step up their game no matter how small it is. Also personally, Keegoz !@#$ed up by dragging Paragon into this war imo. They'd have been safer in the long run if they stay out of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sans Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 So the reasons they're losing/lost are the same reasons why they lost before? No one surprised. 1 Quote “ Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination. †–The First Ideal of the Windrunners, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PackAnimal Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 Since noone who needs to do this will do this, I will do this for you: What went right: - BK was taken down heavily by UPN and NPO and at one point had less than 6000 planes. What went wrong: - The initial blitz by Rose was inadequate and ineffective. - The staggered offensive where alliances came in days later to join an offensive were generally too late to do any good, effectively the OO side fought you one at a time. - Not enough pressure was put on Mensa, allowing the heaviest hitter to operate at will. Mensa just moved from one front to another. - Once UPN and NPO had taken down BK, they did not move on to other fronts that were struggling, but waited for those fronts to fail then were blitzed by the tS/OO fronts who DID shift to BK front. Once BK was neutralized you guys should have shifted to TKR and Mensa. Instead you waited around and eventually TKR and Mensa came to you. - Fark/Alpha kept in reserve for 3 days while everyone was zeroed out, should have hit Mensa the same day Mensa came in. - Poor coordination of nations on many fronts. Most nations basically fighting by themselves. - No double-buys when alliances were relieved, for instance when Alpha and Fark hit Mensa, why didn't UPN and VE double-buy military? Why weren't those two events coordinated? UPN and VE defenders should have been ready to double-buy once their attacker was countered. - Reliance on nukes to make up for the failings above largely exacerbated them, beige shield. Very much agree 2 Quote Mans two modes of existence can be thought of as his light and dark side. He is either the Protector or the Ravager. The Immovable Object or the Unstoppable Force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8mrgrim8 Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 I think they're biggest issue is activity 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eumirbago Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 Very much agree I am guaranteeing you that you will be agreeing to the same thing within 5 months, give or take Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avruch Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 Usually we just say "you guys suck" rather than explaining it in detail. But even if you could figure some of the shit out that Ogaden listed, it wouldn't solve your problem because you can't actually war even on an individual level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Buorhann Posted September 23, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted September 23, 2016 (edited) A lot of what you stated is correct, Ogaden, but you missed a few key things. What went right for them: -Taking out BK initially -Alpha/Fark taking the opportunity to hit Mensa at the same time as TEst/Arrgh/Roz Wei hitting Pantheon Why? -BK WAR MACHINE was slow to churn up despite early red flags popping up, and considering how BK WAR MACHINE was on the rise of improving through each war - it was smart to remove them before they became a threat. -When Alpha/Fark hit Mensa, I don't know if this was planned alongside with TEst and Friends or not but it certainly put SyndiOOsphere in a bind, both PR and Militarily speaking. If SyndiOOSphere did not assist Mensa, they would've lost a huge chunk of hard hitting power and activity. If they did not assist Pantheon, that could put a strain on relations considering they jumped in to assist on VE and UPN. ( Cue inevitable Alpha/NK/Fark criers about this point ) It was a lose lose situation for SyndiOOsphere and it was a hard choice. This was probably the only area where Paracov did something right, whether it was coincidental or not. It also worked in TEst and Friend's favor too as they got out of it unscathed from attacking Pantheon mid-war as well as Pantheon having to deal with internal issues with the disappearance of leadership figures. Either a well timed strike or a very fortunate one. We'll see the after-effects of this later on I'm sure. What went wrong for them: A lot. -VE barely showed up, leaving Mensa to freely eat up their fat nations ( Seriously, VE nations were fat with loot from the lack of activity ). -Rose didn't pin down TKR, at all. -SK fought Syndicate and still somehow lost out against an all plane/no ground strategy. -Completely ignoring the rest of SyndiOOsphere's associates (Guardian, Chola, Coalition, etc - you know who you are) -Didn't seem very coordinated. Like Ogaden stated earlier, once BK was knocked out initially - NPO and UPN should've spreaded out to try and help secure the other fronts. -NUKES! Whhhyyyyyyyy.....??????? By early beiging in battles, you're literally giving people time to rebuild their military. Infra damage doesn't matter early on in a war! -The TLF issue showed that not everything was right with the leadership in Paracov. There was definitely some poor communication and lack of camaraderie. Morale was definitely low, to put it simply. What should've happened: Ogaden already covered a lot of the main points, so read his post. The only one I'd disagree with is the Fark/Alpha one. Fark/Alpha's strike on Mensa was a good one, and frustrating one. It was a very fortunate one for them too, and had all the nations that were briefly relieved from Alpha/Fark zeroing Mensa's nations double built their military, it definitely would've made things more interesting. -I don't know what caused the lack of activity, but either better communication or better prep time should've happened. That's just a hard thing to really improve on, it's hit or miss. -TKR/Guardian/Chola/Coalition shouldn't have been ignored or underestimated. While Mensa does have activity and hard hitting power, Mensa didn't carry this as much as we'd like to think. In all honesty, TKR carried most of the heavy load this war for us. Guardian also had some very big hits and Chola was very active in jumping in on whoever needed it. Coalition, as always, was just available to be helpful in whatever way possible ( They still have a lesson to learn on early beiging though. ) Plus SyndiOOsphere had some surprising outsiders jump in the fight to pick off some of the lower scoring areas. Like someone stated earlier, the biggest issue was activity. Second issue was the coordination. Both of these, SyndiOOsphere definitely has the advantage in. This is something Paracov needs to thinktank on if they plan on doing better in the future. Rebuild relationships, put in active leaders, make sure all the players feel involved, etc. EDIT: Changed wording on SK "attacked" Syndicate to SK "fought" Syndicate. Syndicate definitely preempted them, but there were plans already leaked about SK hitting Syndicate. Either way, they fought each other. Edited September 23, 2016 by Buorhann 14 1 Quote Warrior of Dio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfPCFQfOnLg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jodo Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 I kind of want to point out the biggest flaw for NPO, but it's glaringly obvious to the rest of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeeeet Ronny D Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 Usually we just say "you guys suck" rather than explaining it in detail. But even if you could figure some of the shit out that Ogaden listed, it wouldn't solve your problem because you can't actually war even on an individual level. that hurts my feelings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avruch Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 that hurts my feelings last war you deleted all your tanks rather than fight :-P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boony Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 @Hippo Guardian was hit in the initial blitz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogaden Posted September 23, 2016 Author Share Posted September 23, 2016 Hey deleting tanks can be an effective way to preserve steel if you've lost air control anyways 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 (edited) -SK attacked Syndicate and still somehow lost out against an all plane/no ground strategy. Like someone stated earlier, the biggest issue was activity. Second issue was the coordination. Both of these, SyndiOOsphere definitely has the advantage in. This is something Paracov needs to thinktank on if they plan on doing better in the future. Rebuild relationships, put in active leaders, make sure all the players feel involved, etc. To be fair to the syndicate here though, the all planes is actually a pretty legit strategy, for reasons outlined elsewhere by Jessica Rabbit. It could be that if we had managed to hit first, and had enough time before they came online to get a ground battle and 2 air fights in, that we could undo it. But with them attacking us first, that hope is pretty much out the window. They took pretty substantial damage in the first few days due to it (especially compared to the $ of the damage they dealt), but it guaranteed military supremacy over the course of the round and allowed them to easily reverse the damage trend later on. As for the second point. I don't disagree but its a tough thing to work on. Leadership is one thing, but the activity levels in an alliance can be pretty tough to alter. If you don't have a strong culture of requiring high activity levels, to a certain extent you are going to have a chunk of, not dead weight per se, but less responsive people. Nothing against them per se, its a game and if you prefer to play it more laxly by checking your nation once every day days or something, so be it. But it carries a detriment in war in being able to rapidly come online, and in how willing people are to schedule time to fight on a Saturday night (I was caught at a cookout and spent 15 minutes hiding in the corner furiously tapping away at my phone ). You can try to encourage it, but if they are fundamentally here to play more casually its unlikely to increase. You can kick them and send them elsewhere, but you risk hemorrhaging a decent amount of score and nations. Could be worth it, but likely a hard decision to pull the trigger on nonetheless. I think what they should really consider, if they are having these issues (I haven't paid much attention to the intricacies of these alliances so I don't really know whats going on, even on a superficial level), is organizing their active members into squads. If half of your alliance is active every day, and the other half only login a few times a week, you don't want those people getting paired with each other in targets lists. Putting your active members with each other and ensuring they can cooperate on the same targets will maximize what you get out of it, and is probably the best way to deal with being a mixed alliance when it comes to activity. Because less active (but still not inactive) players do have their role and I can understand the value mass recruiting AAs place in them. Just don't want to have to rely on them for the innitial blitz. Edited September 23, 2016 by Mikey 2 Quote Archduke Tyrell, Lord of Highgarden, Lord Paramount of the Reach, Warden of the South, Breaker of Forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buorhann Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 Hey deleting tanks can be an effective way to preserve steel if you've lost air control anyways Exactly. I did that once Alpha folks finally managed to get a Immense Air control on me. Deleted my tanks/ships, and when relief came in, I immediately double built back up ( Which was the next day's reset ). 1 Quote Warrior of Dio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfPCFQfOnLg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogaden Posted September 23, 2016 Author Share Posted September 23, 2016 Also regarding inactives, on this planet wars are won and lost in hours, not days. Response time really matters. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prefontaine Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 One of Rose's biggest blunders is planning for a war so close to another war they have on their dance card. https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20161007T1950&p0=4878&msg=Rose+Declaration+of+War&font=sanserif&csz=1 Don't think I forgot. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Licorice Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 Honestly though, ParaCov is pretty much dead at this point. Rose is at 9th, VE 12th, NPO 16th, SK 19th, UPN 20th, the rest got blitz so hard they're below the top 20 with members jumping ship one by one to boot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doktor Avalanche Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 I wonder if the Neutral Menace will arrive on Orbis, or be resurrected. Quote Beer. Damn Good Beer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 One of Rose's biggest blunders is planning for a war so close to another war they have on their dance card. https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20161007T1950&p0=4878&msg=Rose+Declaration+of+War&font=sanserif&csz=1 Don't think I forgot. That's beautiful. Honestly though lack of planning was a huge issue imo. 1 Quote Archduke Tyrell, Lord of Highgarden, Lord Paramount of the Reach, Warden of the South, Breaker of Forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ole Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 Honestly though, ParaCov is pretty much dead at this point. Rose is at 9th, VE 12th, NPO 16th, SK 19th, UPN 20th, the rest got blitz so hard they're below the top 20 with members jumping ship one by one to boot. I hope they die, and then OO and tS break up and we can have a real war, with good figthers on both sides.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justakittywithabox Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 Long live BK Hail Zero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canik Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 A lot of the criticism about what we should've done seems pretty accurate to me. (tho in some of those things, it may be easier said than done)About NPO switching fronts tho, we really didn't have much opportunity. BoC, Resplendent, OWR all countering us did keep our military chipped down and kept us busy. tS & and some Syndisphere alliances never lost much air. If we engaged them I'm pretty sure we just would've been mowed down at that point. By the time we got in a position to recover max air, regroup and move to another front, those fronts were really already lost and more counters came in on us.I have wondered if we should've focused on beiging BK to get them out of the way and move to other fronts. Maybe we should've done that but in the end I doubt it would've changed much. Our planes still would've been smashed and BK would rebuy and gone on the offense. Still would've lost our standing armies and ended up where we are now, fighting a guerrilla war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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