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War Postmortem for Rose/UPN/NPO side


Ogaden
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Not entirely certain why people keep repeating that BK hadn't built up.

We were. You guys hit us 20 hours after the order went out. We were ~50% militarized. That's probably what they mean.

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[22:37:51] <&Yosodog> Problem is, everyone is too busy deciding which top gun character they are that no decision has been made

 

BK in a nutshell

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Not entirely certain why people keep repeating that BK hadn't built up.

 

BK wasn't fully built. Mensa was barely hit initially. tS was completely not built and outplayed everyone.

You also had TEst take out Pantheon alongside Roz Wei. 

 

This was your war to lose, you messed up the initial blitz, you messed up reinforcing it, you messed up co-ordination and displayed complete incompetence. The blitz on BK was decent, considering they were caught off guard and NOT fully built yet.

 

You really only have yourselves to blame.

Edited by Beatrix
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It wasn't really that much different from how militarized we were. Hitting first had a lot more of an effect than yall just being poorly prepared.

I did the math for Roq a while ago because these claims are entirely incorrect. NPO was well over 60% militarized plus with all of the alliances against us we were outnumbered by quite a bit.

[22:37:51] <&Yosodog> Problem is, everyone is too busy deciding which top gun character they are that no decision has been made

 

BK in a nutshell

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It wasn't really that much different from how militarized we were. Hitting first had a lot more of an effect than yall just being poorly prepared.

 

These things aren't mutually exclusive, you know. They build up on eachother - hitting first is more effective precisely because you get the initial advantage, something that is intensified when the other side isn't fully built. 

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60% of a much smaller number v. 50% of a much larger number is a wash.

 

I get there's a narrative of being pearl harbored yall want to maintain but the offensive edge is such that if we'd all been at 100% it wouldn't've been that much different.

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60% of a much smaller number v. 50% of a much larger number is a wash.

 

I get there's a narrative of being pearl harbored yall want to maintain but the offensive edge is such that if we'd all been at 100% it wouldn't've been that much different.

BK is larger than NPO. NPO did not hit BK by themselves. They had UPN and HBE on the initial assault and then Polaris a day later. That is why you guys had an advantage in the military department.

 

Our counter blitz was limited due to our build up. Otherwise, we could've absorbed your blitz.

 

Not sure how you don't understand this. It's very simple.

Edited by Yosodog
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[22:37:51] <&Yosodog> Problem is, everyone is too busy deciding which top gun character they are that no decision has been made

 

BK in a nutshell

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60% of a much smaller number v. 50% of a much larger number is a wash.

 

I get there's a narrative of being pearl harbored yall want to maintain but the offensive edge is such that if we'd all been at 100% it wouldn't've been that much different.

 

lol BK had nearly 800 active wars. They were ill prepared, their allies were ill prepared, and they suffered a massive blitz. All and all - you did no more than "decent". BK, on the other hand, did well.

Edited by Beatrix
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I get there's a narrative of David vs Goliath yall want to maintain but playing down the initial advantage ya'll had isn't really going to work when people actually have the numbers to call you on it.

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PvczX3n.jpg?1

 

“ Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination. â€

–The First Ideal of the Windrunners,

 

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You were either swamped or you weren't. It doesn't really make sense to say you were hit with overwhelming numbers and that us having more numbers and yall similarly having more numbers would have changed the result.

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You were either swamped or you weren't. It doesn't really make sense to say you were hit with overwhelming numbers and that us having more numbers and yall similarly having more numbers would have changed the result.

 

It wouldn't matter if you had bigger numbers or not because you're incompetent. The thing is - you did have bigger numbers, which only shows how bad you guys are.

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You were either swamped or you weren't. It doesn't really make sense to say you were hit with overwhelming numbers and that us having more numbers and yall similarly having more numbers would have changed the result.

You're making absolutely no sense. I'm not going to continue arguing with you because you'll never see the facts.

 

I'll let you get back to your internal NPO circle jerk while I stay here in reality.

Edited by Yosodog
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[22:37:51] <&Yosodog> Problem is, everyone is too busy deciding which top gun character they are that no decision has been made

 

BK in a nutshell

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You're making absolutely no sense. I'm not going to continue arguing with you because you'll never see the facts.

 

I'll let you get back to your internal NPO circle jerk while I stay here in reality.

I hope they swarm Syndicate again one time real quick :3

Lxr4VfE.png

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Maybe the gap in military % was not that big but BK had more ground since those are faster to produce, they were definitely significantly outnumbered in planes.

 

Why Everyone dosent just keep max air all the time is beyond me.

Ole2.png

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BK is larger than NPO. NPO did not hit BK by themselves. They had UPN and HBE on the initial assault and then Polaris a day later. That is why you guys had an advantage in the military department.

 

Our counter blitz was limited due to our build up. Otherwise, we could've absorbed your blitz.

 

Not sure how you don't understand this. It's very simple.

 

I did the math for Roq a while ago because these claims are entirely incorrect. NPO was well over 60% militarized plus with all of the alliances against us we were outnumbered by quite a bit.

 

It wouldn't matter if you had bigger numbers or not because you're incompetent. The thing is - you did have bigger numbers, which only shows how bad you guys are.

 

 

I'll just address this topic once and we went through most of the OP on irc:

 

The thing is, as I told you, it's not like all of those alliances were flooding you with war declarations especially given some were promptly countered. UPN was really needed at the upper tier and they did the work there, but as you guys have said we did a lot of the damage and are citing that in peace discussions.  Your own members have said "oh x,y didn't really show up".The gap closes significantly when you account for the how the war slots were filled. Yes,BK was soundly outnumbered on paper, but it's common knowledge alliances on our side are more casual and even HBE was fairly new to war.

 

Memph brought up a good point about aerial advantage factoring despite a ground disadvantage. I think this is kind of what Auctor was talking about since militarization takes that into account. I think his point is if all the alliances hitting you had been fully militarized as well with both ground and air that you being fully militarized wouldn't make all of the difference since we'd have the advantage of hitting first and surprise. Maybe that's a bit too confident, but I can see where he's coming from.

 

 

As for the "not reinforcing" stuff Canik addressed why we couldn't really shift even though it had been our desire to shift.

 

On a broader level, leaders on our side tried and they can't make people care more than they want to care. In general, on every front, there has been one reason why they fell. Your side is more invested. Some more casual alliances solved this issue by moving to the other side and I"m sure we'll see a few cozy up after this.  No one is disputing that your side is more active and there's no real way to fix it and thus we got to see what capabilities alliances had as this was our dead last chance at winning on a coalition level. We shouldn't have lost on paper for sure and the initial blitzes dictated the tide of the war. There is no "git gud" from here. C'est la vie. Waiting for more alliances to get ready would have just hurt us, which sort of figures into "oh their allies weren't entirely ready" part. In terms of the fronts overall, the mobilization advantage was the only reason we had a chance and the longer it took to start the more our chances dwindled. There's really nothing else to it.

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One of Rose's biggest blunders is planning for a war so close to another war they have on their dance card.

 

https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20161007T1950&p0=4878&msg=Rose+Declaration+of+War&font=sanserif&csz=1

 

Don't think I forgot.

tfw Rose members start discovering who actually made that timer

 

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I would also arguing that not having individual war chests make your members too reliant on a central bank for resources, without knowing the bank's limitations. Some of NPO members were suiciding into us thinking they can easily rebuy with NPO "huge" warchest. NPO's war chest got ripped apart in a matter of days.

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I would also arguing that not having individual war chests make your members too reliant on a central bank for resources, without knowing the bank's limitations. Some of NPO members were suiciding into us thinking they can easily rebuy with NPO "huge" warchest. NPO's war chest got ripped apart in a matter of days.

Oh, no. If people were suiciding into you, it was to make it easier for the others. There were no illusions of getting bailed out if they ended up running out  in the process. This doesn't really factor in much. Typically, a blockade only matters if you can't break it and you're probably already losing if you can't break it. Our overall supplies weren't great for a conventional war because we weren't planning on one as we were down to 4 treaties with no hope of competing in a conventional war due to the Paragon split, but they never ran out. We were preparing for a similar scenario to the current situation. We of course were going to go conventional and did so  if we had sufficient alliances involved, but supplies would have been more concentrated in certain nations had it been the lone stand we were expecting.  You can keep thinking this though and I was dumb to take the bait here.

 

Not interested in discussing it further.

Edited by Roquentin
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I would also arguing that not having individual war chests make your members too reliant on a central bank for resources, without knowing the bank's limitations. Some of NPO members were suiciding into us thinking they can easily rebuy with NPO "huge" warchest. NPO's war chest got ripped apart in a matter of days.

 

Nah, we give our new members 1.7 billion dollars. 

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:sheepy:  :sheepy:  :sheepy:  :sheepy:               :sheepy:              :sheepy: :sheepy: :sheepy: :sheepy:


Greatkitteh was here.-

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