Syndicate Press Release: Kangaroo's meat sales increase by 200%!

[Ivan the Red]

Do you know the difference between a fact and an opinion? Serious question.

I recall to have made you a similar question several pages back. Answer is, however, irrelevant for the purpose of achieving peace.

 

Again, we offer White Peace, and we find it to be a fair offer.

 

I understand why you think a NAP is valuable for you, and why you want it. I do not agree with your reasons, but I respect that you find value in that kind of paper.

 

However, fact is the NAP is of no value for us, for reasons already stated. And fact is, we do not give things for free.

 

So, if you want a NAP to reassure your fear of being attacked again, you should in turn offer us something we find value in.

 

What people finds valuable, is a very subjective matter. You can say it's a matter of opinion. Some people find value in a beer review. Other people find value in forcing others write words like "surrender and admission of defeat". We found value in clearing Eumir's framing scheme, but that train is now gone.

 

I don't really know what you have to offer that our Government as a whole will find value in. But you can make an offer for us to discuss.

Edited May 25, 2016 by Ivan the Red

[Valakias]

Public setting? Mkay

 

I have heard from peoples that we are being unreasonable, that we won't budge, and things along those lines.  We have been beyond reasonable with Alpha at this point, we have achieved our objectives for this war weeks ago, and started pushing for white peace, which was on the table since than, and that has never changed, for the IC terms.

 

That brings us to now, few days ago we had another talk, the gist of it, we offered that same white peace multiple times, and got refused for the reasons Placentica has listed many times already.

 

A straight standard NAP is never going to be on the table for the aforementioned problems of trusts, for us, is just an hindrance. However, we were willing to entertain the idea of a conditional NAP, one that goes void automatically in case of respective treaty activations, in short, it prevents Alpha and tS from warring directly, but should any of us attack respective allies or prots, it goes void.

 

That is the BEST offer Alpha is going to see from us in this war, we have budged way further than we needed to, mostly out of boredom i have to say . There is a loophole in there, but that loophole is necessary for us to even think about signing it.

 

And considering the total lack of goodwill from the other side, in a scenario where we have given them more than they deserved, considering the various IC and OOC dramas and incidents ( let's add to it that you used the last peace talks to find ways to try and get back at tS in any way you could think of, for 3 dam hours ), that is not going to change.

 

Have a nice day

[Jodo]

Holy shit, this is still going with the same arguments?

[Eumirbago]

Holy shit, this is still going with the same arguments?

Yeeeeee

[LordRahl2]

If they really did spy away 350ish nukes, I do not know if this is true or not, then your nuke cost easily is 4b. That is just math.

[Keegoz]

Holy shit, this is still going with the same arguments?

Generally happens when neither side trusts the other

[Hodor]

A moment of silence for Hodor.

[Buorhann]

A moment of silence for Hodor.

 

HOLD THE DOOR HOLD THE DOOR HOLD THE DOOR HOLDOR HODOR HODOR

[Buorhann]

Also, can we stop being reasonable with Alpha at this point and demand some more strict terms?  Maybe then they'll realize just how reasonable our Directors were being initially.

 

I surely don't mind the war continuing on.  We're still profiting and they're not growing.  If that's the game they want to play, so be it.  Kind of a waste with that many nations holding that many cities, but hey...

[Valakias]

Generally happens when neither side trusts the other

 

Oh no, i trust them to keep the war going for whatever reason

[Sisyphus]

If you think this is what peace negotiations look like, then I just can't even.....

The irony.

[Thalmor]

HOLD THE DOOR HOLD THE DOOR HOLD THE DOOR HOLDOR HODOR HODOR

 

HODOR HODOR

 

WE DEM BOYZ

[LostWorld]

A moment of silence for Hodor.

 

Hold da doo .... Hold da door .... Ho da door Ho da do Ho do Hoo door Ho dor Hodor Hodor Hodor

 

 

Do you know the difference between a fact and an opinion? Serious question.

 

 

 

Steve this one is for you. Go back to scheming big mighty plans with your warrior friends.

 

Edited May 25, 2016 by LostWorld

[Greatnate]

If they really did spy away 350ish nukes, I do not know if this is true or not, then your nuke cost easily is 4b. That is just math.

 

It's not true, the maximum possible value would be 121 and the likely value is 38.

 

 

Alpha has had 18 active NRF's for the entire duration of this war.

Alpha began the war with 158 nukes in the silos.

24 those Nukes were in vacation mode until Chafire left, 10 there after.

Subtracting the 24 protected nukes from the daily stats gives us how many were exposed to potential spying.

Comparing the nukes launched to the change in nuke count from the previous day gives us a minimum daily production of nukes.

The difference between this daily minimum and the maximum of 18 gives us the 121 number.

However, not everyone has been building nukes every day, average production during May has been 10 nukes per day.

If we repeat our calculations with 10 being the maximum built per day, we arrive at 38 nukes lost to spying.

 

[Filthy Fifths]

I'm surprised that Planet Orbis has been able to handle all these nukes going off. You go Planet Orbis! You are the real MVP here.

[Beowulf the Second]

If i can offer my opinion, i think both sides have realised that the other is quite a hard enemy, but BUT [b/] are too proud to be the first to accept a white peace, 

neither side wants to be seen as the loser and that is understandable, i think the issue is not coming from the offer of a white peace but the fact that alpha may feel they are being treated like a loser, and being treated to feel like a loser historically leads to more wars.....

 

Please keep in mind i'm neutral on this whole war as i quite like alpha, and i also quite like T$ 

 

just clarifying for you bro, t$ has offered literal white peace. no strings attached. we've cut the apology for the OOC attack out already (i think everyone already recognizes the Alpha members involved are d*ck wads), but Alpha is the one demanding an NAP on top of it

[Ivan the Red]

It's not true, the maximum possible value would be 121 and the likely value is 38.

 

According to the number of reports gathered in our special ops subforum, I'd say the number is way closer to 121 than 38.

 

Anyway if, according to your numbers, each nuke-capable Alpha nation had 8-9 nukes stored at the start of the war, then definitely your leader's claim that you had been preparing for a "nuclear defensive war" doesn't holds water. You just started to store nukes during the week-and-a-half between the beggining of the tensions due to the Spartan-TEst drill, and the DoW from t$.

Edited May 25, 2016 by Ivan the Red

[Greatnate]

According to the number of reports gathered in our special ops subforum, I'd say the number is way closer to 121 than 38.

 

Anyway if, according to your numbers, each nuke-capable Alpha nation had 8-9 nukes stored before the way, then definitely your leader's claim that you had been preparing for a "nuclear defensive war" is debunked. You just started to store nukes during the week-and-a-half between the beggining of the tensions due to the Spartan-TEst drill, and the DoW from t$.

 

You realize that the preparations included buying up credits and resources for duration nuking, not just putting nukes in silos where they can be spied out. No point in having 20 nukes in the silo if half won't make it out when you can stockpile the resources and pop a nuke everyday. 

[Ekaterina Kalmyk]

Oh my gosh, Steve.

 

The next time you wonder why there's so much "vitriol" (as you put it) directed at you all the time, look back at how you repeatedly belittled Ivan the Red -- a member of an alliance's upper government -- when he was being perfectly reasonable about peace talks on Pages 19-20.

 

Just sayin'.

 

It's almost as if you're avoiding peace talks on purpose, with the way you attempted to shift the conversation away from them, got called out on it, and levied a counter-accusation to shift the conversation away from peace talks again.

 

I for one found Ivan's post to be insightful and can totally believe he's Upper Management at t$.

[Ivan the Red]

You realize that the preparations included buying up credits and resources for duration nuking, not just putting nukes in silos where they can be spied out. No point in having 20 nukes in the silo if half won't make it out when you can stockpile the resources and pop a nuke everyday. 

 

I suppose that's why:

 

1) Your alliance expent so many alum (critical for nukes) in planes that you later recycled away, losing a good chunk of it.

2) Your alliance had only 18 nuke capable nations out of 30 being a mainly high-tier alliance (if I'm preparing for a nuclear defensive war, I'd build as many NRFs as possible)

3) Only 10 of those 18 nuclear-capable nations had resources to purchase their daily nuke during the first week of the war (according to your own account)

4) Only about 7 of them have resources to purchase their daily nuke right now (acording to the game data on Alpha nukes launched a day)

5) Your bank had so much Steel and Munitions (useless for nukes) and not that much Uranium. According to the data seen in Steve's bank movements, I can see him moving as much as 150,000 munitions and 40,000 steel, but his peak uranium moved was 7,000. An amount that lets you purchase 28 nukes, which isn't even 2 days of your alliance's full nuke production capacity.

 

So, either you weren't preparing anything, or you did prepare poorly.

Edited May 25, 2016 by Ivan the Red

[Placentica]

If i can offer my opinion, i think both sides have realised that the other is quite a hard enemy, but BUT [b/] are too proud to be the first to accept a white peace, 

neither side wants to be seen as the loser and that is understandable, i think the issue is not coming from the offer of a white peace but the fact that alpha may feel they are being treated like a loser, and being treated to feel like a loser historically leads to more wars.....

 

Please keep in mind i'm neutral on this whole war as i quite like alpha, and i also quite like T$ 

Oh we are most definitely losing this war, lol.  I have no issues with admitting defeat.

 

It's not so much pride as it is future survival.  All opposition spin aside, we are alive and nuking and attacking and doing as much damage as possible in this situation.  We aren't going to win the war doing $100m in infra damage a day to them, but it's the best we can do right now.

 

Alpha would prefer to be in this war, while we have nothing to lose infra-wise than to peace out and then be attacked in the next 30-60 days, etc.  It is my opinion that tS is planning to do that knowing we will be less prepared for a future attack.  Thus we will continue to be at war until I feel the right assurances are in place. 

 

That is where the NAP comes in.  To end this cycle of tS-Alpha hate (hopefully everyone moves on, lol), I offered a 90-180 day NAP so we could all simmer down.  tS a few days ago offered a 30-day NAP and while that's progress I find that to be not much help, whereas a 60-90 day one is necessary for Alpha's future survival.  Sure you can get around it, but then it's another alliance that will have to suck 300-400+ nukes.  I'm willing to take that gamble on a completely unprovoked attack on Alpha.

 

Being the loser here, lol, I'm not in a place to dictate anything other than to continue the war, but if I had it my way we'd have a 180-day NAP.  White peace is very very bad for Alpha.  tS is planning a future attack on Alpha to try to start another great war, like I think they will, then it's exactly what they want and what just white peace is terrible for Alpha.  Lets make no bones about that, that white peace is not "good" for Alpha.  It's signing to be attacked in the near future by tS.

Edited May 25, 2016 by Placentica

[japan77]

well, this just seems completely pointless.

Anyway, here's a go around at a potential treaty option given the last 21 pages +other BS elsewhere

Alpha gets a conditional NAP for 45 days. Alpha issues the apology. Everyone peaces out.

[Ekaterina Kalmyk]

well, this just seems completely pointless.

Anyway, here's a go around at a potential treaty option given the last 21 pages +other BS elsewhere

Alpha gets a conditional NAP for 45 days. Alpha issues the apology. Everyone peaces out.

 

I like your terms, but they're probably too favorable to t$ for Alpha's liking.

 

 

(-snip-)

 

Being the loser here, lol, I'm not in a place to dictate anything other than to continue the war, but if I had it my way we'd have a 180-day NAP.  White peace is very very bad for Alpha.  tS is planning a future attack on Alpha to try to start another great war, like I think they will, then it's exactly what they want and what just white peace is terrible for Alpha.  Lets make no bones about that, that white peace is not "good" for Alpha.  It's signing to be attacked in the near future.

 

Thanks for explaining a bit about why you've been so against white peace so far. It's beginning to make more sense to me.

 

However, you sound a bit paranoid.

 

In a game like this, there are never 100% guarantees of anything. The Syndicate has said that they're not interested in attacking again and that they'd rather just forget Alpha exists. I'm inclined to believe them, you're not. Either way, you can't ever be sure of anything, but you'll never get any sort of trust without extending some first.

Edited May 25, 2016 by Ekaterina Kalmyk

[LordRahl2]

Actually t$ should just add a 200m reparations payment every day that Alpha doesn't peace out.

[Greatnate]

I suppose that's why:

 

1) Your alliance expent so many alum (critical for nukes) in planes that you later recycled away, losing a good chunk of it.

2) Your alliance had only 18 nuke capable nations out of 30 being a mainly high-tier alliance (if I'm preparing for a nuclear defensive war, I'd build as many NRFs as possible)

3) Only 10 of those 18 nuclear-capable nations had resources to purchase their daily nuke during the first week of the war (according to your own account)

4) Only about 7 of them have resources to purchase their daily nuke right now (acording to the game data on Alpha nukes launched a day)

5) Your bank had so much Steel and Munitions (useless for nukes) and not that much Uranium. According to the data seen in Steve's bank movements, I can see him moving as much as 150,000 munitions and 40,000 steel, but his peak uranium moved was 7,000. An amount that lets you purchase 28 nukes, which isn't even 2 days of your alliance's full nuke production capacity.

 

So, either you weren't preparing anything, or you did prepare poorly.

 

1. Planes are cheap, decomming returns 75% of the resource.

2. Our average member had 14 cities and an NRF, being prepared for a nuclear scenario does not mean not building cities for a conventional one.

3. I said built, not had the resources to build. Plenty of people were conserving resources for down the line as they still had more than 3 nukes in their silos.

4. 8 are launching, that has more to do with targeting than resources.

5. The alliance bank is there to help make up shortfalls in peoples warchests, not hold all of the uranium in Alpha. We're up to 380 launched, but clearly we didn't stock up enough uranium.