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Tim Armstrong

This war and peace talks

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Tim, what does that mean from our viewpoint? Nothing. You could start shitting rainbows and cute kittens and it doesn't change anything for us. Reps are tangible, they do.

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Tim, what does that mean from our viewpoint? Nothing. You could start [email protected]#$ing rainbows and cute kittens and it doesn't change anything for us. Reps are tangible, they do.

It means I don't like being called a disingenuous liar. Because I'm not.

 

Guardian has never required reps to end a war and our members don't think it's justified in this situation where we pre-empted an attack. It's that simple. It's not spitting in VE's face, it's not shirking our responsibilities, it's not insulting VE. We have great respect for VE especially given the conversations we've had with Impero and other VE members throughout the war.

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Pre-empting an attack on your alliance is not a CB?

Only if said attack wasn't a pre-empt to proven previous attack plans.

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It means I don't like being called a disingenuous liar. Because I'm not.

 

Guardian has never required reps to end a war and our members don't think it's justified in this situation where we pre-empted an attack. It's that simple. It's not spitting in VE's face, it's not shirking our responsibilities, it's not insulting VE. We have great respect for VE especially given the conversations we've had with Impero and other VE members throughout the war.

 

You seem to be missing quite a few larger points.

 

I suggest you read my thread, thoroughly, and respond to it.

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Guardian has never required reps to end a war

 

And Guardian never was in a defensive war. You guys are always the aggressor, so it's pretty obvious you never get reps.

 

And you should be thankfull you're dealing with Impero and Moonpie, if it was up to me there would be no terms at all, just pain and destruction.

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Tim you know I have utmost respect for you and Guardian. I must admit that I am a bit disappointed to see you take this avenue. I would have hoped that you would have come to me prior to taking this public and distort perceptions of reality.

 

You know well as I - and we talked at length about this - that this stems much farther back than just the screenshots and that this was ultimately a situation where we were on the defensive both politically and militarily.

 

Guardians record of not asking for reps is not comparable to this situation as most all your wars have been aggressive, meaning that you willingly chose to come after your opponents. Much the same way as your coalition attempted to do with us. That does not compare to a defensive situation. I would appreciate if you could address these points.

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That's a big hypothetical situation my friend. I don't think I can answer that the way you want it to be answered.

But, ftr, I love many of people in VE and VE is cool too <3

If you love VE in the first place, then why agree to help SK? :huh:

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If you love VE in the first place, then why agree to help SK? :huh:

Should be noted that we were helping Guardian and not SK. I would go into my reasoning for war more however this is not the thread to do it in.

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If you love VE in the first place, then why agree to help SK? :huh:

It's his personal opinion and does not represent the entirety of Rose. Don't get confused.

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I'm reminded of Jodo's blog post about the different cultures in PW when these type of discussions pop up. In that I, coming from (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn&#39;t be bringing it up anyways), see VE's demand for reps to be 100% reasonable and expected. In contrasts, others outside of (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn&#39;t be bringing it up anyways) may view that as off-putting. I disagree with the notion that the demand for reps will destroy the game. If anything, the era in which alliances war for idiotic and unjustified reasons ended, the game would be better off. But that may be the CNer speaking in me. Because while you may disagree, the demand of reparations is considered just, and just because of Guardian's mistake in entering this war.

 

On a small scale, this is the norm in PW politics. Whenever a Rose member raids a large alliance and I'm contacted on IRC about it, I always opt to send reps to the alliance affected and yell at the Rose member about it. It's just simple courtesy. But it's also a that that money has to back up Rose's apology for that raider's actions. In other words, it backs up our words with actions.

 

 

Let's be honest: It is completely disingenuous to say that reps will "kill" the game. That's not an excuse that flies anymore in a game increasingly populated by players where reparations are the norm. No, it is rather a refusal to acknowledge that the era of lackluster CBs is over and that the game is moving to a more sophisticated political stage. 

 

If you are truly apologetic about this war, pay the reps. Swallow your pride. Because if the hope is that VE and her allies are going to stop because it's too expensive to ZI you guys, then you don't really know them all to well. They will do it, regardless of the cost. I know I would. If the reps are a matter of principle, then so is the complete destruction of your nations. Costs be damned. 

 

Welcome to the new era of Politics and War ノ( ã‚œ-゜ノ) 

 

It's his personal opinion and does not represent the entirety of Rose. Don't get confused.

 

Yeah, who does this "Keegoz" think he is? Jerk >_>

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Yeah, who does this "Keegoz" think he is? Jerk >_>

Lol, Belisarius. I was referring to Jroc's post saying he "loved" VE and LordMane taking to mean it as the whole of Rose. I for one don't love VE. Just slightly infatuated. :P

Edited by Aphelion

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We have reformed our strategy and changed how we play the game in the future. That is much more significant than paying some reparations and setting a new precedent that impacts everyone who plays the game.

 

Well, "reforming your strategy and changing how you play the game in the futeure" doesn't really help VE, moreso only yourselves. What would help them out would be reps. Note that the numbers they asked for are only a fraction of the cost of damage you did to VE, and I'm sure that even though they said the terms were non-negociable. If you perhaps brought down their prices, if they are too big, at least if you can't come to an agreement, it's understandable. 

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Don't get hung up on the non negotiable part, we offered what we did as a sign of respect to both Guardian, and SK.  We could have rolled in and asked for 1 billion and 100k of each resource, but we knew that was unrealistic, and were not going to insult you with a crazy number.  Instead, because we didn't want to waste time going back and forth in negotiations while you continued to take damage, we gave you an extremely light, and affordable number, which anyone in their right mind would accept.

 

As for bad for the game, I think its bad for the game, that alliances can roll in an attack anyone and then walk away scott free when they lose, that is a terrible precedence to set.   We didn't attack you, you attacked us, and openly plotted to attack us.   SK, take some responsibility for your actions, and this war could be over in 15 mins.

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If you love VE in the first place, then why agree to help SK? :huh:

Well, I am not Rose gov't for the record. I just happen to like a lot of people in VE and so I like/love VE.

I hate SK but I really do like/love Guardian and I would never outright help SK, I would rather curbstomp them, American History X style. Ya feel me?

Edited by Jroc

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Actions speak louder than words. Guardian is doing well so far proving they want to change course and venture a different direction. However, you can not very well do this fighting a losing war. Prolonging this war only hurts you and your loyal members.

 

You all are amazing for the ride or die attitude, very commendable, I respect that. But, knowing when to swallow your pride and move on is even more commendable and deserves a lot more respect.

 

Let us just end the war and move on to rebuilding, there is no need to drag this out anymore.

Well, I am not Rose gov't for the record. I just happen to like a lot of people in VE and so I like/love VE.I hate SK but I really do like/love Guardian and I would never outright help SK, I would rather curbstomp them, American History X style. Ya feel me?

Much <3 Jroc

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This is hilarious on so many levels.

 

I remember when UPN supported our allies, EoS, in a war where we "pre-emptively" attacked forces that were at some point plotting against us. We had logs, and various other pieces of information to suggest that we were deemed as a threat to them, and they were willing to act. Our response to that tangible threat was to declare war, and the same alliances that were outraged by our decision at the time, are using the exact same excuse -- but without any evidence whatsoever. The irony is strong.

 

Furthermore the two remaining alliances in this war both supported harsh terms such as forcing us to decom all of our missile projects, after we had been highly damaged already. Also keep in mind it was a lot earlier on in the game, and therefore rebuilding from the war was a lot tougher than it would be now, and allowed others to gain a massive relative advantage in growth.

 

If you ask me the terms are very fair given everything that took place in regards to SK/Guardian. And you're lucky the others, such as Rose/UPN aren't demanding anything either. After being the biggest hypocrites around, threats of war to alliances over trivial matters because you had the numbers, being prepared to sell out your coalition partners and totally stab them in the back, your leader spying on our forums for months through breaking the rules, and aggressively attacking an alliance for no good reason and unprovoked, what did you expect?

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Actions speak louder than words. Guardian is doing well so far proving they want to change course and venture a different direction. However, you can not very well do this fighting a losing war. Prolonging this war only hurts you and your loyal members.

 

You all are amazing for the ride or die attitude, very commendable, I respect that. But, knowing when to swallow your pride and move on is even more commendable and deserves a lot more respect.

 

Let us just end the war and move on to rebuilding, there is no need to drag this out anymore.

 

Much <3 Jroc

Much <3 Moonpie

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 No, it is rather a refusal to acknowledge that the era of lackluster CBs is over and that the game is moving to a more sophisticated political stage. 

 

 

This bit made me laugh.

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Don't get hung up on the non negotiable part, we offered what we did as a sign of respect to both Guardian, and SK.  We could have rolled in and asked for 1 billion and 100k of each resource, but we knew that was unrealistic, and were not going to insult you with a crazy number.  Instead, because we didn't want to waste time going back and forth in negotiations while you continued to take damage, we gave you an extremely light, and affordable number, which anyone in their right mind would accept.

 

As for bad for the game, I think its bad for the game, that alliances can roll in an attack anyone and then walk away scott free when they lose, that is a terrible precedence to set.   We didn't attack you, you attacked us, and openly plotted to attack us.   SK, take some responsibility for your actions, and this war could be over in 15 mins.

Scott free?  I had 20k infra.  Now I have 5k(well, I rebought some).  How is that Scott free?  I think I've got the Orbis record for eating nukes.  But you want more.  Greedy scum!

 

Stop trying to turn Orbis into Bob.

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You took damage in a war you started, and lost.  Due to your alliance's lack of accountability and irresponsibility, you could have eaten 1-2 less nukes, and you could be back on your way to rebuilding.  Instead, we will see you in 5 days when you come back out of beige.

Edited by Sweeeeet Ronny D
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Scott free?  I had 20k infra.  Now I have 5k(well, I rebought some).  How is that Scott free?  I think I've got the Orbis record for eating nukes.  But you want more.  Greedy scum!

 

Stop trying to turn Orbis into Bob.

Y'all act as the old guard of a non-existent Orbis that y'all helped create that lives only in your hubris. I know for a fact that SK pushed for reps in the Marionette War but you were told no. And, how do symbolic reparations turn Orbis into Bob? 100 Million? If you look at Woodstock, these fail in comparison and furthermore, they haven't elected to undermine your sovereignty by appointing a viceroy.

 

You can die by your pride for all I care because pride will be the only thing that will keep you company here.

Edited by Jroc
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 I know for a fact that SK pushed for reps in the Marionette War but you were told no. 

 

Yea this is a pretty funny tidbit I didn't know about until recently. 

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You guys wanted to play the role of bully, and now that you're paying the price you don't want to pay up for the damage you caused. Spare us your whining. I, for one, fully support the legitimacy of VE's claims to reps.

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You took damage in a war you started, and lost.  Due to your alliance's lack of accountability and irresponsibility, you could have eaten 1-2 less nukes, and you could be back on your way to rebuilding.  Instead, we will see you in 5 days when you come back out of beige.

Oh, you'll see me before then!

Yea this is a pretty funny tidbit I didn't know about until recently. 

Pretty sure that isn't true...the part about us demanding reps.

Edited by Aisha Greyjoy

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