Proposed Log-in Bonus Increases

[Prefontaine]

Following the purge of order 66 we want to bolster cash in newer nations as inactivity changes will reduce raiding options for lower city count players. Thus, we are boosting the log in bonus for new players. We're looking for the total bonus (without Activity Center) to be somewhere in the 6M-9M range for logins during the first 60 days. Additionally, we are looking to extend the bonus window. A "New Player Boost" option will be purchasable with credits. For 1-2 credits every 30 days depending on how big the bonus is. This credit option will be available until a nation has reach 365 Days old. Any credit subscriptions will automatically come with this bonus as well if a nation is below 365 Days old. Below are the outlined changes:

• Increase Daily Login Bonus from 500K -> 2M
  • Day 1 - 500K
  • Day 2 - 1M
  • Day 3 - 1.5M
  • Day 4 - 2M Max
• New Player Log In Bonus (First 60 Days) increased to 8M cap
  • Day 1 - 2M
  • Day 2 - 4M
  • Day 3 - 6M
  • Day 4 - 8M Max
• Activity Center Project Login Bonus increased 100%
  • 1M on the first day
  • 2M on subsequent days
• Any player between 60 days old and 365 days old may purchase a "New Player Boost" which provides the new player login bonus rates
  • Costs 2 credits
  • Lasts 30 days
  • Comes included in credit subscriptions

 

This additional sources of income will benefit lost income from raiding and produce a higher chance of more money on raid targets as well as promoting logging into the game.

 

Thoughts? Feedback? Concerns?

Edited June 15, 2023 by Prefontaine

[Morbius]

New player bonus is too high

[Hulu]

I like this.

[Keegoz]

Just now, Morbius said:

New player bonus is too high

We just gutted lower tier raiding, where nations were pulling in 30m a day. But 8m for 60 days is too high?

[Adam II]

Decent, but only targets new players, not raiders in general. Could the new player bonus be for people with less than 8 cities?

[Hulu]

Just now, Morbius said:

New player bonus is too high

lower teir lost alot of nations due to inactivity and they have lost income this is appropriate.

Also this shouldnt affect you in anyway, It will help the new players.

[leonissenbaum]

These kinds of bonuses being dependent on nation age is going to incentivize people to just delete and re-create their nations when they get past 60 days (or 365 days?) if they're still raiding. To avoid this, having these kinds of bonuses be dependent on city count instead of nation age seems like it'd work much better.

I might be missing it, but is what the new player boost actually does explained?

[George Clooney]

Seems like you are purposely fattening the chickens a bit for the foxes, and that may have unintended consequences down the road, but I like it in principle if the intent is to encourage activity and hopefully prevent more people from playing a few weeks, sitting back and saying the words you never want to hear: "I'm bored". 

[RobinHood]

2 credits for 30 days of $8m a day.

so basically 8 days of log in to generate the 64m which covers current credit prices. So 22 days of free $8m a day. 
 

Not really sure why this is needed other than a way to inflate credit prices as everyone who can will do this.

Just make it $6m a day for the first year and think of a better use for credits 

[Pascal]

8m$ a day is too much for a new player. That's about a c13/14 daily income with 2k infra.

Edited June 15, 2023 by Pascal

[Prefontaine]

Just now, RobinHood said:

2 credits for 30 days of $8m a day.

so basically 8 days of log in to generate the 64m which covers current credit prices. So 22 days of free $8m a day. 
 

Not really sure why this is needed other than a way to inflate credit prices as everyone who can will do this.

Just make it $6m a day for the first year and think of a better use for credits 

The default rate is 2M a day, so they only gain an additional 6M a day, if they do that for a full 30 days that's 180M for the cost of ~60M in credits. That's also assuming they log in every day. 

As activity is a core goal of these changes, I'd be happy to see a newer player get 120M for logging in a whole month. 

Just now, leonissenbaum said:

These kinds of bonuses being dependent on nation age is going to incentivize people to just delete and re-create their nations when they get past 60 days (or 365 days?) if they're still raiding. To avoid this, having these kinds of bonuses be dependent on city count instead of nation age seems like it'd work much better.

I might be missing it, but is what the new player boost actually does explained?

I don't want to encourage a nation to not grow because they want to keep getting the bonus, which is why I prefer time-locking it. I'd be okay with a combo option. Is a player is above X cities or over 1 year old then they no longer apply. 

[Keegoz]

Just now, Pascal said:

8m$ a day is too much for a new player. That's about a c13/14 daily income with 2k infra.

They were making 30m a day about 72 hours ago.

[RobinHood]

Just now, Keegoz said:

They were making 30m a day about 72 hours ago.

I would like to see proof of this. I mean that seems too good to be true to me.. 

[Pascal]

13 minutes ago, Keegoz said:

They were making 30m a day about 72 hours ago.

30m$ is only for the most active and dedicated micro-tier raiders afaik. And a good bunch of micro-tier players don't actually raid or do it to a relatively low extent. Plus, dedication like this at least deserved some recognition while logging in should not imo.

[KindaEpicMoah]

Just now, Pascal said:

30m$ is only for the most active and dedicated micro-tier raiders afaik. And a good bunch of micro-tier players don't actually raid or do it to a relatively low extent. Plus, dedication like this at least deserved some recognition while logging in should not imo.

Clearly we should be rewarding players for the bare minimum of logging in once a day since that's literally all most players do once you get past low tier raiding (and some people can't even do that). /s

 

Though I will question to what extent the low tier purge has affected low tier raiding, because while I do think it's made it harder to an extent, I don't think it's absolutely gutted it like some are suggesting.

 

Additionally, even if low tier raiding has been gutted, why are we replacing a high effort, moderate skill, high reward catch-up mechanic with a low effort, no skill, medium effort catch up mechanic? The two are fundamentally different, and I'd prefer to see a catch-up mechanic that actually encourages playing the game.

 

Lastly, why lock the credit subscription bonus behind nations that are over 60 days old? I honestly like the idea, but it seems odd to call it a "new player bonus" when players at their newest point can't utilize it.  

 

 

 

[Jordan]

Also @Prefontaine You should really put the word Proposed or Proposal in your post titles.

Looking for trigger words in the middle of the topic that notify someone that its not an immediate change shouldn't happen. It should be clear from the get go that this isn't implemented, but is a proposal.

Especially after Alex just randomly turns on things like 10k nation deletions.

[Prefontaine]

1 hour ago, KindaEpicMoah said:

Clearly we should be rewarding players for the bare minimum of logging in once a day since that's literally all most players do once you get past low tier raiding (and some people can't even do that). /s

 

Though I will question to what extent the low tier purge has affected low tier raiding, because while I do think it's made it harder to an extent, I don't think it's absolutely gutted it like some are suggesting.

 

Additionally, even if low tier raiding has been gutted, why are we replacing a high effort, moderate skill, high reward catch-up mechanic with a low effort, no skill, medium effort catch up mechanic? The two are fundamentally different, and I'd prefer to see a catch-up mechanic that actually encourages playing the game.

 

Lastly, why lock the credit subscription bonus behind nations that are over 60 days old? I honestly like the idea, but it seems odd to call it a "new player bonus" when players at their newest point can't utilize it.  

Giving players more money to do more things when they log in creates a better chance they retain interest and keep logging in. It's it minimal effort? Sure. Is it better than losing players? Absolutely. 

I said reduce, there will be a reduction and the concern from that change was largely resources - not money. Money has great sinks that work well. 

See point one. You have to start somewhere, that starting point is logging in. If they keep logging in they can develop skills and grow as players. 

It's behind a credit purchase because they get it for free for the first 60 days. 

1 hour ago, Jordan said:

Also @Prefontaine You should really put the word Proposed or Proposal in your post titles.

Looking for trigger words in the middle of the topic that notify someone that its not an immediate change shouldn't happen. It should be clear from the get go that this isn't implemented, but is a proposal.

Especially after Alex just randomly turns on things like 10k nation deletions.

Have a cookie. 

[James II]

Now that my posts have been deleted a third time. This proposal will do nothing to contribute to player retention. We have an oversaturation of resources already, adding to a problem that is causing frustration is not going to increase player retention.

[Sweeeeet Ronny D]

Damn so if i am reading that correctly for 60 days as a brand new nation, if all you did was log in every day you would make 468 million dollars?  you can get to c15 and have 40 million left over just from sign in bonus.

That is fine by me, the toughest thing to get over in this game is how slow it is, so if you can get people to keep logging in over longer periods of time the better it is for the health of the game.

just out of curiosity did you guys do the math on what a C12-C15 nation makes? because after that 60 days is over that income drop is probably going to hurt, or is that why you have the credit thing so you can get em hooked on that sweet sweet income, and then make em pay to feel that high again?  Diabolical boys.

[Avatar Patrick]

I would've preferred we keep the inactive loot targets since it seems the deletion has had a minimal impact on resource prices so far. That being said, with raiding nerfed (again), low tier is going to be increasingly reliant on their passive income. This should soften the blow a little bit.

[Prefontaine]

4 minutes ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said:

Damn so if i am reading that correctly for 60 days as a brand new nation, if all you did was log in every day you would make 468 million dollars?  you can get to c15 and have 40 million left over just from sign in bonus.

That is fine by me, the toughest thing to get over in this game is how slow it is, so if you can get people to keep logging in over longer periods of time the better it is for the health of the game.

just out of curiosity did you guys do the math on what a C12-C15 nation makes? because after that 60 days is over that income drop is probably going to hurt, or is that why you have the credit thing so you can get em hooked on that sweet sweet income, and then make em pay to feel that high again?  Diabolical boys.

We could do a 1-time injection to players the closer they are to the 60 day mark. Someone at 100 days like 100M. Someone at 500 days gets 50M. And say 3,236 days gets $3.50?

[Abaddon]

I honestly don't know what the moaning is about cuz I actually like this. The problem raiding has atm is that you're stuck at the same city count grinding numbers you're saving for later; It's not inherently engaging. I would rather have people build up sooner and then keep getting that passive income for another month whilst they're building into the low tier. This will make the transition into the mid tier easier since you won't get gutted with a 50% revenue decrease when you move to city 10.

On an alliance level, I'd rather have a burgeoning low tier that contributes to the alliance taxes and gets involved during globals than a bunch of c3s that are sitting there for 100 days grinding their requirements.

6 minutes ago, Avatar Patrick said:

I would've preferred we keep the inactive loot targets since it seems the deletion has had a minimal impact on resource prices so far.

Funnily enough Alex didn't actually make a change, he only fixed code for a feature that was already implemented ages ago. These nations never should've been allowed to exist in the first place and we were simply abusing a broken line of code. Now that raiders won't introduce those raws into the market, I think we'll see gradual improvement in the prices over time and actual low tier members that do produce raws will get better prices and thus be able to grow quicker. Either way, this was direly needed and I'm glad it got fixed before things got even worse. We'll only be able to tell how this impacted raiding given some time since right now I'm not seeing a change worth fussing about.

3 hours ago, Pascal said:

8m$ a day is too much for a new player. That's about a c13/14 daily income with 2k infra.

Yes, but a c3 making as much as a c30 was fine?

[Pascal]

Just now, abaddon said:

Yes, but a c3 making as much as a c30 was fine?

I redirect you to my second comment. 8m$ for doing nothing is a lot and brings nothing of value (no incentive, just free cash to newbs) while only penalizing <c10 who are older than 60 days.

I'd just lower it to 4m$ or so max + activity center at 2m$/day is more than good enough already.
 

Just now, abaddon said:

I honestly don't know what the moaning is about cuz I actually like this. The problem raiding has atm is that you're stuck at the same city count grinding numbers you're saving for later; It's not inherently engaging. I would rather have people build up sooner and then keep getting that passive income for another month whilst they're building into the low tier. This will make the transition into the mid tier easier since you won't get gutted with a 50% revenue decrease when you move to city 10.

On an alliance level, I'd rather have a burgeoning low tier that contributes to the alliance taxes and gets involved during globals than a bunch of c3s that are sitting there for 100 days grinding their requirements.

Raiders will still raid and the best ones (likely <0.1% of players below c10) will just make 38m$ a day instead of 30m$ now I suppose kekek.

 

Edited June 15, 2023 by Pascal

[Abaddon]

Just now, Pascal said:

Raiders will still raid and the best ones (likely <0.1% of players below c10) will just make 38m$ a day instead of 30m$ now kekek.

Nobody cares about the best raiders. There are ways to get ahead of the game regardless of these changes. The point is to steer the meta as a whole away from keeping new players at city 3 for eons and thus giving them higher retention, introducing more players into the game in the process. The importance falls on the casual player as they make up 95% of the player-base.

Just now, Pascal said:

I redirect you to my second comment. 8m$ for doing nothing is a lot and brings nothing of value while only penalizing <c10 who are older than 60 days.

I'd just lower it to 4m$ or so max + activity center at 2m$/day is more than good enough already.

I mean idk about the numbers, I'm sure they'll go over them before this actually gets introduced. The increase as a whole however is a generally good thing that doesn't penalize anyone lol.

[Avatar Patrick]

1 hour ago, abaddon said:

The point is to steer the meta as a whole away from keeping new players at city 3 for eons

Except it really doesn't do that. There's still an incentive to deposit your stuff after 60 days, reroll and keep raiding. And having fewer nations to raid only hurts the micros that don't have a raid bot. Alliances like Apollo/Eclipse won't be hurt by this at all.