Pascal

Coalition B isn't IQ. IQ is BK/NPO/GoG (+ GOONS which made OD later). T$ and a shitton of other alliances (way too many) were part of Coalition B but were never part of IQ. In t$'s case, it was only during like 2 weeks at very beginning of gw14. gw14 lasted 8 months because of IQ/OD and only IQ/OD is to blame for that, it's in no way because of Coalition B. At the very best, you can also blame alliances who fought for OD until the very end (Polaris, UPN, Camelot etc) which had some of their leaders (presumably people like Malal, TheNG ...) who were aware of OD plans. So tbh i'm not sure what narrative you're trying to spin here. Honestly, many alliances would have considered allying NPO pre-gw14 when NPO and BK ""splitted"", you can't blame t$ for doing it and ending up in that awkward situation during gw14.

I'm not denying this nor think this is altruistic of course, as I said this nap benefits everyone but GG imo. I'm not disagreeing with you here either. As you say, NAP or not wouldn't change much, it's just some sort of extra security for us. I didn't mean to quote you to blame you specifically if that's how it felt (I could have just quoted anyone else who said that the NAP was proposed by BWR), it's just that making it look like Bollywood coalition are the bad pixelhugger guys advocating stagnation or whatever bs has been said (not from you) or might be said on this thread for coming in the peace negociations with a 3-month NAP term is eh for all the reasons I mentionned in my previous post.

People acting like NAPs are bad and all is just lol. Is that the new way to be cool in 2021 ? If so, you have really low standards guys. Find something else idk. First, this is just 3 months, nowhere near 6 months like post-AC or post-gw14. Second, fighting another war within 3 months between Rose/BW/HW is very unlikely to not say impossible (unless big leak or big drama) even if there was no NAP. If you want action during that time, just ask Mystery or Oasis ? Not us. Third, war is expensive asf and recovering from a global takes several months, TKR can probably relay that since I doubt most of their high tiers/whales got their ROI between gw18 & gw19 (and they chained 3 globals in 5 months, give them some rest). If you want to blame someone, blame Alex for making wars so expensive thus increasing the need for longer peace periods. Fourth, this NAP has more pros than cons for everyone except GG. It's not like you even tried to negotiate it, and if anything that NAP objectively benefits TKR too imo. The only person who made a small comment to show his disappointment about the 3-month NAP is Ronny, presumably because GG doesn't want Rose/BW to feel safe, coercing their whales into sticking to <3k infra to keep Grumpy ahead.

Or just dont be dumb and enter VM for several years which takes about 20 seconds.

It's DN

Usually, you post the DoW or RoH after declaring wars or being declared on, not before. What are you doing ?

Because you're one of the (rare) Grumpy people who isn't a complete pixelhugger and fights more than the first round. You're the fourth grumpy to have taken the most damages in this war out of 30+ in GnR. GnR was also the "hardest" war for Grumpy out of gw15/16/18 so it's easy to take it as an example lmao. I could use your rhetoric and say that only 1/3rd of Grumpy members took over 1 billions damages in gw16. And I could give you countless examples of Grumpy people who took derisory amounts of damages during both gw16 & gw18, like Lafaillette (Trevor Belmont) who took 760m damages in gw18 and 520m in gw16, which is atrociously low. As for myself, it's worth noting that my damages taken aren't extremely high because my infrastructure was lower at the beginning of gw19 as I was already damaged by KT & I didn't have stupidly high amounts of infra like some of your members. And unlike some people, I'm not bleeding hundreds of millions of loot when I get beiged. Now, our damages taken as the whole coalition are quite spread between t$, Rose and Eclipse/Company for whales. Despite that, my point was that it'll take our whales more time to recover from gw19 (in ROI) despite dogpiling you that it took yours to recover from gw15/gw16 or even most likely gw18 while having half of the game against you at that time. Feel free to do the maths if you don't believe me. Try again next time.

Hollywood is only OP in the whale tier. I feel like i'm repeating myself but the only issue I have with Hollywood is that in 1v1 "fair" sphere wars, GG whales are basically unbeatable. So, what's the point of attacking Hollywood if our main objective which is to stop GG whales from growing tremendously cannot be achieved ? Our whales would just get rolled while GG whales keep growing and thus, the gap would become even bigger. It's almost as if the gap between Grumpy and Rose/t$ etc wasn't huge enough already. Easily rolled ? Rolling HW has never been easy. The fact that it requires the two strongest spheres HW excluded (both with a large amount of whales, unlike Oasis or Minc) to work together to roll you literally means that you aren't easy to roll. Taking down GG hasn't been easy in the first round and we took heavy losses as well in the whale tier. When GG was dogpiling, their losses were way lower to not say close to non-existent for most of them.

I stopped counting the number of times TKR got dogpiled because of unsmart FA moves as well (gw14 excluded). Surely next time will be different though ! (I hope so for you at least)

The only fair war (with some sort of relevance) that I've seen since I created my nation in August 2018 was Surf's Up (or KETOG vs Chaos) right before gw14 which only lasted like 2 weeks iirc. All the others were dogpiles or quite one sided so shrugs. Also, KT isn't preventing hegemonic powers lol, they're politically irrelevant.

Break GG. Sometimes overextending is needed during alliance wars. I'm sure that's what lots of Hollywood nations did during gw18, and it's not always in a dumb maneer. Can't really deny that part, I haven't had a close look at gw18 neither did I participate but from the bits I saw and what i've heard it wasn't glorious. But regardless, my original point stands, the current meta drastically nerfed updeclares & boosted updeclares which is as I said one of the reasons Hollywood won. For the record, it took us up to 2-3 rounds to fully drag down the GG c40s+ despite our overwhelming numbers because they kept rebuying and with updeclares we couldn't even manage to zero their planes & their ground, they even managed to zero a good bunch of us in the first round (including myself). Do you think Hollywood would have won gw18 with the old planes-only meta ? My personal take is that probably not, or it would have at least been for sure significantly harder.

No, I said that Blackwater or Rosesphere alone couldn't beat Hollywood in the high and whale tiers in 1v1, not Grumpy alone. Again what you're saying here is just complete nonsense, Grumpy would never fight alone if t$ or Rose blitzed them, the rest of Hollywood would help them. Hollywood has 78 c30s+ (19 TKR, 30 Grumpy, 25 Guardian, 3 tO, 1 BK) as well, that's more than Rose or BW. But the problem isn't at all about c30+, using this as an argument is incredibly stupid, there is a huge difference between a c30 and a c40 nowadays. 85% of Rose and t$ whales are c30-35 while over half of Grumpy (about 15 nations) is c40+. You'd have a point with the old planes-only war meta, but with the new war meta that nerfed updeclares asf & boosted downdeclares, a 3 well-coordinated c40s can easily beat 6 c35s without any problem, this is one of the reasons why Hollywood beat Roasis Inc in gw18. It's not normal that it should take 2 weeks to pin Grumpy in the first place, and even in the best of the scenarios Blackwater or Rosesphere alone would never be able to fully pin GG with Hollywood. It's not about winning nor losing, it's about giving GG whales a beating they largely deserve after methodically beating the whales of the rest of the game one by one to take the edge. I already said it but literally the only way to properly beat GG right away is to have Blackwater & Rose collaborate together, do you find that normal ? Do you think it's fun to be a whale not in GG and see your nation being rolled to ashes every single time you fight GG ? And then spend billions and billions to rebuild post-war while GG whales lose almost nothing and keep growing like weed ? Well, I can tell you that it's not. I don't care much about FA stuff & justifications, I'm not into such bullshit. This war just has a logical purpose behind it that not only serves Blackwater & Rose interests but also the entire game which is to not have one group of alliances dominating the highest tier of the game and snowball until it's too late to stop them. And eh, your CB in gw18 wasn't really much better ya know ? This was quite literally an attempt at dogpiling Rosesphere, you had more numbers + blitz advantage + militarization advantage + overall competency. The war at the very beginning before Oasis & half of Mystery joined was nowhere near fair.

You're missing the whole point of this war here. We are dogpiling you (read : Grumpy) to rebalance the game and I think we already argued enough about how a 1v1 against Hollywood is pure suicide & pretty much guarantees another dogpile in favor of Grumpy where they would be *again* untouched. You want fair wars ? Sure, you may not believe it but me too. Just start by not allying alliances with an incredibly strong whale tier unkillable in 1v1 "fair" sphere wars then ? You're asking for fair wars but you are one of the main reasons we can't have fair wars currently, that's quite paradoxical. The ""short and fair"" wars that Ronny promotes are utter bullshit which only benefits Grumpy, basically roll & destroy all your opponents in the space of 2-3 weeks then go back home. Yay, fair wars !

Wtf is that bullshit lmao, Grumpy would never fight alone without Hollywood backing them up. Are you that desperate trying to look for arguments to support their cause ?

Dogpiling GG is the only way to stop GG from dogpiling all the other non-GG whales and possibly allow the rest of the game to catch up Grumpy after 18 months without you losing pixels. After dogpiling all your potential enemies in the past 3 wars, including us in gw16, you aren't really in a position to criticize any of us for dogpiling you in reprisal. It's sad we had to come to this, but that wouldn't have happened if GG (mainly Grumpy) didn't gather so many whales/megawhales in the first place which strongly influenced the recent global wars outcome then snowball etc, I already argued about that. Take it however you want but I never wanted to dogpile Hollywood and I actually feel quite bad for TKR/tO/BK being rolled/dogpiled again and again over the past year (and I have absolutely nothing against them), I'm just here for Grumpy.

Ah yes, Grumpy and Guardian, your best non-dogpilers allies. I also remember gw16 being a nice totally fair war where GG definitely did nothing wrong. After all we are the big bad meanies who hit them unprovoked right ? GG is way too respectable to plan dogpiles.

I like how you have so little arguments that you have to rely on Dryad to find one that suits you. My points were about Grumpy (which you of course all ignored, lol) but if you want to talk about Eclipse and me, sure, let's talk about it a bit. Dryad doesn't know anything about in-game politics or how it works behind the scenes, he's just a raider after all. Qualifying Eclipse of pixelhuggers because we didn't get the occasion to fight a war (until now) is just stupid on his end. But you SRD, as a leader, you probably know that you can't start wars at anytime whenever you want either, in particular when you're in a sphere (and I'm not the kind of person like you who goes for dogpiles because "why not ?" either). If it makes you feel better, Eclipse proposed it's help to t$ for gw17 and we would have happily fought in defense of Quacksphere at the time, however t$ didn't require our help so we didn't push as they were fine with us not involving. I don't really understand why you are insisting on my raiding past either (which was during the Arrgh & Mythic days). There is literally nothing shameful in being a raider before lmao. I'm now completely dedicated to Eclipse and yes, I put my side & my alliance interests above my personal interests. You don't seem to know anything about me anyways (it feels like you only learned of my existence 3 days ago lol) so who even are you to judge me ? And jesus, I literally just proved how stupid your last paragraph was just 2 days ago in the same thread wtf, stop bringing it back. 1 billion is literally nothing at your scale. IIRC, I took about 2.5 billions damages in gw16 alone, and I was only a c34 with 2700 or 3000 infra/city at the time. Can you say the same, Ronny ? Rhetorical question of course. I'm at least glad (and surprised) that unlike some blind TKR simps or SRD, you recognize some of my points (and actually read my posts, which SRD doesn't seem to do). Now i'm not going to come back to those points because I more or less agree with you. I answered to your post in the first place because it was quite obvious that you were trying to delegitimize our reasons for this war using the classic "you're hypocritical" argument (at this point you can just use this one every war tbf) and purposefully trying to reduce the weight Grumpy has in the game. It's pretty clear to me for several reasons that I mentionned in my three previous posts that the victim and "GG isn't OP" narrative your alliance tries to spread is utter bullshit, and GG has absolutely no right to complain about being dogpiled currently after all they have done in the past year and a half. For these reasons, I'm not sure why you're expecting me to be friendly with someone like you in an alliance like Grumpy, who supports a cause that I know is wrong and way more hypocritical than ours. You judge me by my words, I judge you by the actions of the alliance you defend. The actions of your alliance do not deserve the slightest empathy. As for the aggressiveness, it's not like your side was crystal clean and never insulting/trolling either, so welcome to the internet I guess ? Thanks for the advices, but I don't need them.

Yes, congratulations, it took you long enough to realize it. It's already a miracle that we've been able to get this far. You have to see it to believe it. Not at all, no one in this game wants a group of alliance dominating literally the highest tier of the game . And i'm not talking about just Blackwater or Rose but literally everyone that isn't Hollywood, in case you didn't realize. Furthermore, It's far from being the least effective tier to consolidate. In GnR, Grumpy dominating the whale tier allowed HW's high tier to recover which then allowed HW's mid tier to recover. Again, snowball effect. Without Grumpy, Hollywood would have surely never been able to win GnR (unless Roasis Inc does an unimaginable massive throw). Another important aspect to take into account is that contrary to what some people seem to think, the new war meta buffed whales asf, updeclares have been nerfed and downdeclares buffed. A c45 is several times stronger than a c35, because you can take advantage of your superior military and switch between ground attacks in some wars and dogfights in others to pin your opponents. Unless we are completely outnumbering 3:1 or more you like in the current war, it's almost impossible to drag and pin your megawhales down if they keep rebuying. In fact, I do think that the combinaison of Rosesphere+Blackwater is literally the only possible way to beat Grumpy, since Mystery and Oasis whale tier is way weaker and their megawhales non-existent. You're purposely underestimating your own strength just to fit your own narrative, vainly. GW18 is the living proof of the huge impact Grumpy can have on a war despite only being whales. So, you can either recognize that Grumpy is way too strong and basically destroys any kind of fairness in 1v1 sphere wars in the whale tier which then snowball on the entire war, or you can stay in denial like TKR. Hypocritical ? Are you kidding me ? Is this coming from someone in an alliance that dogpiled thrice in a row, and where most of the whales almost haven't lost any pixel for 18 months straight now ? Seriously, you are the one being hypocritical here. Do you really think the rest of the game would allow you to dogpile their whales forever and never do anything about it ? If you are really thinking what you just said here, you are really pathetic my dude, just saying. I could even bet that I singlehandely took more damages in gw16 (1 war) when you dogpiled us than some Grumpy megawhales did in gw15, gw16 & gw18 combined (3 wars). You're welcome.

POV : you have no counter-argument

This argument is so worthless and so stupid for so many reasons that it becomes laughable at this point. I'm no FA man, so i'm not going to write a 5000 words well-written essay showing you how dumb you are, as t$ is doing that well enough already. So i'll just come and destroy your examples with what I know best, maths. You compare Grumpy and e404, and that they have both taken about 50 billions damages in GnR, which is true. But you forgot to mention, mind you, that Grumpy peacetime daily income is 1.8 billions/day whereas e404 daily income is of "only" 500M. Which means that it takes e404 almost 4 times longer to recover from GnR than it does for Grumpy. 1.2 billion per member in GnR ? 900 millions in DH ? Lol, that's peanut for whales, your members make 60-70 millions per day on average, that's not even 3 weeks of income to recover from a global war. Using absolute values to justify yourself is just stupid in every single way possible, if you use relative values or ROI, your damages taken are basically nothing compared to others alliances. I see that you didn't mention gw15 either, since i'm guessing your damages taken there are at an all time low. So right, all Grumpy did since the end of NPOLT was dogpiling not once, not twice, but thrice in a row in the whale tier (gw15, gw16 & gw18), basically destroying any sort of concurrence every war (tCW in gw15, t$ in gw16, Rose in gw18) and snowball from there. The results of this snowball effect are today very clear, since GG holds alone about half the megawhales in the game. But right guys, let's not forget that "t$ man bad" and "Rose man bad" for dogpiling you once now. It's obviously t$ and Rose's fault if they are behind Grumpy to this day after all, right ? I'm amazed how your group of dogpilers/pixelhuggers whales even somehow convinced people like @Dryad that Grumpy is a "warmongerish" alliance. Lol. tl;dr : You are a fatuous pixelhugger, and a dogpiler.

Condolences to all parties involved

"Why can't I dogpile my opponents without taking damages the entire war this is so unfair *sobs*"

Bruh.

Cool but I don't recall anyone asking

I stopped counting the number of times Nokia said that a long time ago.