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4 hours ago, Samuel Bates said:

I’m sorry I gotta break character for this.

The treaty web is a damn mess right now. There are so many alliances that can’t decide what sphere they want to be in so they pick all of them. I can understand if you’re a large alliance having a ton of Protectorates (If they didn’t have the game would die) but, why so many MDPs? How can you maintain like six MDPs and not have an established bloc? If you want a big team of close allies make a bloc. If you don’t want to make a bloc then you shouldn’t want like 50 allies. You only have so much time in the day you can’t be close to all of them unless you act as one big alliance (like a bloc...). Honestly I’m impressed with TFP seeking to clean up their treaties a little. You can have great alliances as allies but, that doesn’t mean you’re close enough that they’re a good ally for you. I would rather have a weak but close ally than an incredibly distant strong ally. I might just be crazy but, that’s how I veiw the mess that is the treaty web. Hopefully we see some cleaning soon I just doubt it will happen.

I gotta stay in character for a second. The treaty web has always been a mess. I’m having a hard time picking a sphere. Protectorates are typically the cancer that stunts the growth of alliances maturity. They run crying to their protectors rather than learning how to stand on their own feet and handle adversity. 

 

I want to be the treaty janitor this game deserves. 

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7 hours ago, Komiko said:

Shoulda stayed in character, you say less stupid crap.

Protectorates aren't what keep the game alive. That's rubbish to anybody with a clue how actual FA and political strategy works. There's an old saying, and it's true - TEst is the ultimate example of it; Everyone has an ODP with everyone. If protectorates ceased being a thing, all that would happen is that needless micros not worth actually fighting to protect would die. If somebody goes knocking on GodFury's door there, say it's Pantheon for example, all it takes is GF being friendly with big alliance who figures "yanno what, frick pantheon and their bullying.", and then it's either back down or a big war.

Protectorates are literal cancer. ODPs and ODoAP's are also worthless trash. The latter should be removed, and replaced with a treaty that signifies what anyone signing them actually means. Call it a friendship treaty, cause that's all either of those means. Protectorates don't need to exist because everyone has an ODoAP with everyone.

I'd prefer a world where wars ended in actual demands instead of white peace. I'm sure someone will get all spooked over the though of billions being demanded. But really, i'd want it just to force people to get rid of the actual paper protectorate trail. 

And, this ignores micros without big protectorates who still exist for months without being erased and annihilated. Just ask @Ukunaka for proof. 
It also further ignores that micros aren't the lifeblood of the game. Most nations aren't in alliances, period. Most of them are inactive, actually. Of the nations in alliances, most are in alliances that are not micros. At worst, they're minor powers, barely strong enough to take their own protectorates on. This list goes as far down as TUE at #33, who recently was passed by their now ex-protectorate Animation Domination - at least in score. Alot of people might still, and do think of TUE as a micro, and in some ways they are, when comparing to, say, BK. Compared to actual micros though, powers even lesser and more lacking, is when you realize that in all honesty, TUE is just a minor power, same with most of it's blocmates, actually.

These alliances, these minor, to major, to great, to hegemonic (*cough* TKR *cough*) powers are what make the game. Most active players are in an alliance, and most of those are in alliances that are at worst, on terms of TUE. TUE is no powerhouse, but it sure as hell isn't United Socialist Nations at #50.

So please, off yer high horse, mate. You aren't that important, or necessary, in just being a micro. Your existence is not detrimental, but nor is it particularly beneficial. That's what being a micro IS ABOUT - it's being irrelevant, neither good nor bad, just there, even if no one cares; and no one does. Because the majority of active people, who do, or try to do anything, aren't in micros. 

 

As for spheres, those aren't going anywhere. It's just with Syndisphere making a comeback these days it seems, IQ still kicking, and TKR with it's own little enclave, they need to remain as i stated them. Separate. Work together, sure, but always separate. Three factions is more interesting than 2, and hopefully KT/TGH can find a way to make it a real 4-way.

First I need to say I agree with 90% of what you said. Especially on the friendship treaties as that would simplify a lot of the game and clean up the hell that is the micro world. Now that my position is clear I’ll reply to what I diagreed with. On both me getting out of character and being in a micro, I got out of character to detach myself from my alliance in saying what I said. That was my personal view of the treaty web. I’m not gonna argue for micros being good alliances or “the lifeblood of the game” that would be insane. I don’t think that being in a micro or a top 10 alliance should validate or devalidate your opinion though. Are micros irrelevant in FA outside the micro world, yes 100% but that doesn’t mean their members hold any less value and as you pointed out with AD micros won’t always be micros so a micro irrelevant now won’t be in the future. On another note you rightfully disagreed with me when I said half the game would die without protectorates. That was quite vague and should have been clearer on my part. When I said that I meant half THE GAME not the player base. A good chunk of the games player interaction is in the micro world. Most of the upper alliances focus on growth unless attacked or attacking and when this happens the game gets a good spike in interaction but it fizzles out to long NAPs. In the micro world and it is a chaotic world with a lot of problems but, there are less stakes in doing something as Camelot, La Mafia and, Typhon did. I wasn’t claiming micros are great alliances that would be incredibly dumb to say. I’m claiming they have less restrictions making it so they can do something without worrying starting world wars. Micros rarely defend them selves usually relying on their big boy friends to save them so even the larger alliances spend a lot of time in the micro world for good or bad. Now that’s all I disagree with everything else in my opinion is spot on well said and well argued.

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6 hours ago, Epi said:

Tfw you get a protectorate from two different spheres, sign an M-level and then criticize people for standing in the middle and signing Mutual defense treaties. TFP despite some drama, has remained fairly consistent about where it wants to be and what it plans to do. As for the sheer number of treaties they have, well they aren't playing this game in the same way the majority of the community is, they aren't playing to 'win'. TFP basically signs its friends, with rare exception and there are no limits on those.

Also because you confused Odp with Mdp. R.I.P

one_mdp.png

 

 

I’ve been friends with both Bad Company and Rose for a very long time going back to when they were allies. Both me and my alliance are close with them. If you look at what I said I was referring to the treaty web which my alliance is not on. I was talking about other alliance not TFP... May I also point out I liked what TFP did and didn’t mention their MDP or other ODPs directly on purpose. TFPs treaties are clean and they are close with all their allies. That’s a solid FA and I didn’t say otherwise. I said haveing a long list of distant allies is pointless. That does not apply to TFP in any way as I already said they are close to their allies. I was not attacking TFP I was applauding them...

Please read posts clearly before attacking someone on something they didn’t say.

Ps. Solid meme though but, you kinda squished my pfp and forgot to wipe the background I suggest the app photo cut out it’s solid and free.

3 hours ago, Prefontaine said:

I gotta stay in character for a second. The treaty web has always been a mess. I’m having a hard time picking a sphere. Protectorates are typically the cancer that stunts the growth of alliances maturity. They run crying to their protectors rather than learning how to stand on their own feet and handle adversity. 

 

I want to be the treaty janitor this game deserves. 

I 100% with everything you said 

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7 hours ago, Komiko said:

Protectorates aren't what keep the game alive. That's rubbish to anybody with a clue how actual FA and political strategy works. There's an old saying, and it's true - TEst is the ultimate example of it; Everyone has an ODP with everyone. If protectorates ceased being a thing, all that would happen is that needless micros not worth actually fighting to protect would die. If somebody goes knocking on GodFury's door there, say it's Pantheon for example, all it takes is GF being friendly with big alliance who figures "yanno what, frick pantheon and their bullying.", and then it's either back down or a big war.

Protectorates are literal cancer. ODPs and ODoAP's are also worthless trash. The latter should be removed, and replaced with a treaty that signifies what anyone signing them actually means. Call it a friendship treaty, cause that's all either of those means. Protectorates don't need to exist because everyone has an ODoAP with everyone.

I'd prefer a world where wars ended in actual demands instead of white peace. I'm sure someone will get all spooked over the though of billions being demanded. But really, i'd want it just to force people to get rid of the actual paper protectorate trail. 

And, this ignores micros without big protectorates who still exist for months without being erased and annihilated. Just ask @Ukunaka for proof. 
It also further ignores that micros aren't the lifeblood of the game. Most nations aren't in alliances, period. Most of them are inactive, actually. Of the nations in alliances, most are in alliances that are not micros. At worst, they're minor powers, barely strong enough to take their own protectorates on. This list goes as far down as TUE at #33, who recently was passed by their now ex-protectorate Animation Domination - at least in score. Alot of people might still, and do think of TUE as a micro, and in some ways they are, when comparing to, say, BK. Compared to actual micros though, powers even lesser and more lacking, is when you realize that in all honesty, TUE is just a minor power, same with most of it's blocmates, actually.

These alliances, these minor, to major, to great, to hegemonic (*cough* TKR *cough*) powers are what make the game. Most active players are in an alliance, and most of those are in alliances that are at worst, on terms of TUE. TUE is no powerhouse, but it sure as hell isn't United Socialist Nations at #50.

 

As for spheres, those aren't going anywhere. It's just with Syndisphere making a comeback these days it seems, IQ still kicking, and TKR with it's own little enclave, they need to remain as i stated them. Separate. Work together, sure, but always separate. Three factions is more interesting than 2, and hopefully KT/TGH can find a way to make it a real 4-way.

 You're a man after my own heart.

I do believe that micros have a place in this world. However, there does seem to be an overabundance of them. Maybe the powers that be should come together and only allow "x" amount of micros. Or perhaps the top 25 alliances should only each be allowed 1 protectorate. It would be glorious.

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To put in a bit more coherent bit on why we decided to break with OP La Mafia, after both the split of a good chunk of its gov into Defcon 1 and OP's rebranding into La Mafia, it's basically devolved into the equivalent of a long distance relationship that's just faded away. TFP didn't actually realize OP had been rebranded until a few weeks later when I poked my head into their discord because I noticed their server icon changing and asked where the TFP alliance embassy went, and then nobody talked to each other up until now. We felt that it would be better to just discontinue the treaty due to the extremely vast distance that's grown between us, and also because we seriously have a pretty big number of treaties as well.

In hindsight, maybe we should have just made the title of this be "It's not you, it's me" and themed it as a mutual break up.

Anyway, while we may be parting ways, best of luck to La Mafia. I don't know all too much about your current gov, but it was good to have you with us. 

And, @Epi, while your analysis isn't too far off mark, we also have a vested interest in playing so we all don't die. You may blame TEst for the last one. +1 for that and using The Count in a meme. 

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8 hours ago, Komiko said:

Shoulda stayed in character, you say less stupid crap.

Protectorates aren't what keep the game alive. That's rubbish to anybody with a clue how actual FA and political strategy works. There's an old saying, and it's true - TEst is the ultimate example of it; Everyone has an ODP with everyone. If protectorates ceased being a thing, all that would happen is that needless micros not worth actually fighting to protect would die. If somebody goes knocking on GodFury's door there, say it's Pantheon for example, all it takes is GF being friendly with big alliance who figures "yanno what, frick pantheon and their bullying.", and then it's either back down or a big war.

Protectorates are literal cancer. ODPs and ODoAP's are also worthless trash. The latter should be removed, and replaced with a treaty that signifies what anyone signing them actually means. Call it a friendship treaty, cause that's all either of those means. Protectorates don't need to exist because everyone has an ODoAP with everyone.

I'd prefer a world where wars ended in actual demands instead of white peace. I'm sure someone will get all spooked over the though of billions being demanded. But really, i'd want it just to force people to get rid of the actual paper protectorate trail. 

And, this ignores micros without big protectorates who still exist for months without being erased and annihilated. Just ask @Ukunaka for proof. 
It also further ignores that micros aren't the lifeblood of the game. Most nations aren't in alliances, period. Most of them are inactive, actually. Of the nations in alliances, most are in alliances that are not micros. At worst, they're minor powers, barely strong enough to take their own protectorates on. This list goes as far down as TUE at #33, who recently was passed by their now ex-protectorate Animation Domination - at least in score. Alot of people might still, and do think of TUE as a micro, and in some ways they are, when comparing to, say, BK. Compared to actual micros though, powers even lesser and more lacking, is when you realize that in all honesty, TUE is just a minor power, same with most of it's blocmates, actually.

These alliances, these minor, to major, to great, to hegemonic (*cough* TKR *cough*) powers are what make the game. Most active players are in an alliance, and most of those are in alliances that are at worst, on terms of TUE. TUE is no powerhouse, but it sure as hell isn't United Socialist Nations at #50.

So please, off yer high horse, mate. You aren't that important, or necessary, in just being a micro. Your existence is not detrimental, but nor is it particularly beneficial. That's what being a micro IS ABOUT - it's being irrelevant, neither good nor bad, just there, even if no one cares; and no one does. Because the majority of active people, who do, or try to do anything, aren't in micros. 

 

As for spheres, those aren't going anywhere. It's just with Syndisphere making a comeback these days it seems, IQ still kicking, and TKR with it's own little enclave, they need to remain as i stated them. Separate. Work together, sure, but always separate. Three factions is more interesting than 2, and hopefully KT/TGH can find a way to make it a real 4-way.

Whoa whoa whoa, lmao howd GodFury get dragged into this lmao. If someone came knocking at our door, we would handle it ourselves, unless, say it's a giant alliance that we dont stand a chance against. In that case, yes we would call on the almighty rose for help. Other than that, we got our own. 

AKA dont bring Zeus's thunder to hades' underworld.

Edited by Richard Payne III
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1 hour ago, Richard Payne III said:

Whoa whoa whoa, lmao howd GodFury get dragged into this lmao. If someone came knocking at our door, we would handle it ourselves, unless, say it's a giant alliance that we dont stand a chance against. In that case, yes we would call on the almighty rose for help. Other than that, we got our own. 

AKA dont bring Zeus's thunder to hades' underworld.

Hah, just an example. I know you in particular would fight it out, but in the example given, the only thing that'd save you is if another big alliance felt like being an anti-bully ranger. :P

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48 minutes ago, Komiko said:

Hah, just an example. I know you in particular would fight it out, but in the example given, the only thing that'd save you is if another big alliance felt like being an anti-bully ranger. :P

bullyhunters.0.jpg

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If you really think about it, it was not that difficult of a decision. There was this period of high hopes for this new venture when they were still OP... we thought we could mutually benefit from this arrangement, signed the ODP, end of story. Come a few weeks later, we get news that the whole alliance has come crashing down and rebrands into LA Mafia (Pasta loving Italians): Gov is completely different, and there was not a single sinew holding us together. FA (Victorystar) tried to communicate with our 'friends' at Spaghetti and Meatballs (sorry, La Mafia) to no avail. However, we wish them luck in their future endeavors wherever the 'Family Business' may lead. 

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