Rose's Surrender

[greatkitteh]

Roquentin get some sleep. Because clearly your "incompetant" leadership is totally hurting my being part of the membership in NPO. Im crying now. Look what you !@#$ did, "salty" goverment member. Time to git gus.

[Bollocks]

Yeah, Freddie, like there's no "salt" from someone that called this Karma 2, I'm sure of it.

Oh you know it was an spectacular reference.

[greatkitteh]

Nah, we never reached out for a treaty. We did uphold cordial communications when NPO first started out, including gov-gov channels. We refrained from reaching out beyond that as we hoped NPO would make something outside of the present dynamic happen.

 

They didn't.

Correction - your alliance killed the private IRC log. While UPN was busy communicating with NPO on both embassies (thanks to the hard work of greatkitteh) and having an IRC that was active, your side killed the treaty.

 

 

Correction - The UPN treaty wasn't blocked because Hans started hacking our accounts. It was blocked because poor timing (it really looked like you just wanted to hit rose avoiding us) , because your diplomats were (sorry) dicks, because the Goverment delibarately tried to hide it from us, because TS was busy doing backroom things against UPN, and because TS has a history of betraying it's allies.

Edited October 2, 2016 by greatkitteh

[Prefonteen]

Correction - your alliance killed the private IRC log. While UPN was busy communicating with NPO on both embassies (thanks to the hard work of greatkitteh) and having an IRC that was active, your side killed the treaty.

 

 

Correction - The UPN treaty wasn't blocked because Hans started hacking our accounts. It was blocked because poor timing (it really looked like you just wanted to hit rose avoiding us) , because your diplomats were (sorry) dicks, because the Goverment delibarately tried to hide it from us, because TS was busy doing backroom things against UPN, and because TS has a history of betraying it's allies.

 

I'm aware of what occurred within UPN. I've seen Hans' post and it was quite clear. I'm also not blind to the influence a figurehead or ex-figurehead can exert if he so chooses. The presentation of the facts in that post painted a very specific narrative.

 

As for the first part: what log are you talking about? And what did we kill?

[greatkitteh]

I'm aware of what occurred within UPN. I've seen Hans' post and it was quite clear. I'm also not blind to the influence a figurehead or ex-figurehead can exert if he so chooses. The presentation of the facts in that post painted a very specific narrative.

 

As for the first part: what log are you talking about? And what did we kill?

You are not. We didn't know about the treaty until Hansaurius leaked it out, and if you had looked deeper you would find that "TS SUCKS" wasn't even an argument used much in the thread. Had you looked past the surface, you would have found that the treaty was canceled primarily because the argument was that the timing of the treaty (before war) and an "optional defense pact" would hurt us by letting you hit VE than help us. That and because UPN wasnt about to share intelligence with you.

 

No dobout you have other screenshots, maybe even one of the many times I ran for cheif librarian on an anti-TS platform, and you'll find the same reasoning instead of "TS SUCKS AND WE JUST WANT TO ROLL THEM".

 

As for the first part, I'm talking about how TS neglected to send anyone to pw.npowned.net and activity killed the join IrC channel and then hit an ally without warning. (Well, Steve leaked that you were going to hit us but you guys loudly denied it) while UPN did a better job communicating with UPN.

 

Lastly, NPO started out with equal treaties on both sides. 2 with shittysphere (TKR and SK) and 2 with Conevant. (Alpha and VE.) It wasn't until Alpha got hit that the tip weighed towards conevant. Heck, it was almost equal until TKR betrayed us.

[Lucas]

This thread has so much salt you all should check your blood pressure out. Mine has skyrocketed just from reading a few posts.

[Prefonteen]

You are not. We didn't know about the treaty until Hansaurius leaked it out, and if you had looked deeper you would find that "TS SUCKS" wasn't even an argument used much in the thread. Had you looked past the surface, you would have found that the treaty was canceled primarily because the argument was that the timing of the treaty (before war) and an "optional defense pact" would hurt us by letting you hit VE than help us. That and because UPN wasnt about to share intelligence with you.

 

No dobout you have other screenshots, maybe even one of the many times I ran for cheif librarian on an anti-TS platform, and you'll find the same reasoning instead of "TS SUCKS AND WE JUST WANT TO ROLL THEM".

 

As for the first part, I'm talking about how TS neglected to send anyone to pw.npowned.net and activity killed the join IrC channel and then hit an ally without warning. (Well, Steve leaked that you were going to hit us but you guys loudly denied it) while UPN did a better job communicating with UPN.

 

Lastly, NPO started out with equal treaties on both sides. 2 with shittysphere (TKR and SK) and 2 with Conevant. (Alpha and VE.) It wasn't until Alpha got hit that the tip weighed towards conevant. Heck, it was almost equal until TKR betrayed us.

 

Yeah im not going to circlejerk here. This stems *directly* from the OP of the thread in question:

 

And my third complaint is of something which has not yet happen but which is about to.

Tomorrow on he 10 of April, our council has in the council chamber made it clear that they will sign an ODP with the Syndicate.

I have seen no discussion of it in the council chamber previous to this. I can understand why because I believe most of the senior advisers would strongly speak out against this.

The Syndicate along with Mensa HQ remains our gravest enemy. It is not forgotten how they plotted against us last year nor are the heavy reparations demanded of us in the Oktoberfest war.

Yes, I made mistakes in attacking them, but it was not a war which was unprovoked. 

They have a history of being manipulative using other alliances as it's tools, and now our Council is willingly letting themselves become their pawns.

This move isn't only insulting to those in UPN who has fought against the Syndicate and others who has attempted to dominate the game by the destruction of others, but it is also a slap in the face to our current allies

such as VE & Rose.

Why our council is so infatuated with them is beyond me, but all this does is to run a wedge between us and our current allies in trade off becoming one of the Syndicate's tools.

 

 

Regardless of what your ultimate reasoning amongst members is: Hans openly stated that we are UPN's gravest enemies and showed every possible bit of disdain for us in that topic, while relations with your govt were on the up and while our diplomats (who had been extremely active) had been seeing no recent complaints.

 

Now, to us, in light of that quote, the torpedoing of the treaty followed by Hans' ascension as well as his signing NPO  (not to mention the impending exodus of pretty much all elements within UPN who liked tS) signaled a definite shift in UPN policy and attitude towards us. Namely: Hans acted like an enemy and with him in charge, UPN once again looked like a hostile entity. It was a direct throwback to oktoberfest times.

 

So yes, we from there on (from the moment Hans ascended) treated UPN as an enemy. Because your newly elected leader (who thus had popular support) made it well known that he considered us as much.

 

 

 

As for NPO: Channel died due to a combination of factors:

- Jasmin stepped down

- I went on a hiatus (read: Inactive) for a bit

- etc.

 

moreover, that's entirely irrelevant and does not really devalidate my point in any way? Can you rephrase and tell me what you're trying to argue?

Edited October 2, 2016 by Partisan

[Lilac Veritas]

why is this 16 pages....

dont you all have better things to do?

[greatkitteh]

Yeah im not going to circlejerk here. This stems *directly* from the OP of the thread in question:

 

 

 

Regardless of what your ultimate reasoning amongst members is: Hans openly stated that we are UPN's gravest enemies and showed every possible bit of disdain for us in that topic, while relations with your govt were on the up and while our diplomats (who had been extremely active) had been seeing no recent complaints.

 

Now, to us, in light of that quote, the torpedoing of the treaty followed by Hans' ascension as well as his signing NPO (not to mention the impending exodus of pretty much all elements within UPN who liked tS) signaled a definite shift in UPN policy and attitude towards us. Namely: Hans acted like an enemy and with him in charge, UPN once again looked like a hostile entity. It was a direct throwback to oktoberfest times.

 

So yes, we from there on (from the moment Hans ascended) treated UPN as an enemy. Because your newly elected leader (who thus had popular support) made it well known that he considered us as much.

 

 

 

As for NPO: Channel died due to a combination of factors:

- Jasmin stepped down

- I went on a hiatus (read: Inactive) for a bit

- etc.

 

moreover, that's entirely irrelevant and does not really devalidate my point in any way? Can you rephrase and tell me what you're trying to argue?

I'm arguing there was no grand conspiracy in NPO to make enemies with tS. Roquentin wasn't saying "Hey guys, wanna go antagonize an alliance we have three (iirc Alpha was still MDoAP) shared alliances with?" The UPN-NPO treaty was only a product of TS attacking Alpha and UPN being more active in making friends. Hans didn't tell Roquentin "Let's sign this treaty so we can attack Ts" either. NPO had almost no part in how things turned out to be and we shouldn't held accountible for such.

 

Hansaurius's ascendion and the mass exodus didn't happen before the thread got out. Yes, Hansaurius called you guys an enemy, but again that was because there was no geniue diplomacy from TS due to factors I stated before. (Such as poor timing and trying to keep the treaty secret from the membership). No, UPN didn't cancel because we were "salty". No, Hansaurius didn't decide to hate on TS for no good reason. We told you over and over, words over actions. TS gave us words. You then gave VE bad actions.

[Prefonteen]

I'm arguing there was no grand conspiracy in NPO to make enemies with tS. Roquentin wasn't saying "Hey guys, wanna go antagonize an alliance we have three (iirc Alpha was still MDoAP) shared alliances with?" The UPN-NPO treaty was only a product of TS attacking Alpha and UPN being more active in making friends. Hans didn't tell Roquentin "Let's sign this treaty so we can attack Ts" either. NPO had almost no part in how things turned out to be and we shouldn't held accountible for such.

 

Hansaurius's ascendion and the mass exodus didn't happen before the thread got out. Yes, Hansaurius called you guys an enemy, but again that was because there was no geniue diplomacy from TS due to factors I stated before. (Such as poor timing and trying to keep the treaty secret from the membership). No, UPN didn't cancel because we were "salty". No, Hansaurius didn't decide to hate on TS for no good reason. We told you over and over, words over actions. TS gave us words. You then gave VE bad actions.

 

uhh lol?

 

- We didnt care about public vs private. Thats something internal for y'all

- You are making a lot of assumptions about what our intent was and have provide no facts to back that up. We were on your forums for months on end. We went out of our way to dodge you in 168 until you hit TKR as a reaction to SK hitting NAC (that forced our hand).

- Timing in itself is a weird thing to bring up since we did not just come out of the blue and offered you a treaty. Months of rebuilding bridges preceded the offer, and it came to be gradually.

 

Re: the rest of your post... you're just bullshitting at this point.

[Brooklyn666]

How does Rose get 16 pages but SK only gets 3

[Charles Bolivar]

How does Rose get 16 pages but SK only gets 3

 

Roq's tears add 10 pages onto any topic.

[greatkitteh]

Roq's tears add 10 pages onto any topic.

I get no mention

[Brooklyn666]

I get no mention

 

You'll get nothing and like it!

[greatkitteh]

You'll get nothing and like it!

;~; I never get the callouts

[Foltest]

I'm arguing there was no grand conspiracy in NPO to make enemies with tS. Roquentin wasn't saying "Hey guys, wanna go antagonize an alliance we have three (iirc Alpha was still MDoAP) shared alliances with?" The UPN-NPO treaty was only a product of TS attacking Alpha and UPN being more active in making friends. Hans didn't tell Roquentin "Let's sign this treaty so we can attack Ts" either. NPO had almost no part in how things turned out to be and we shouldn't held accountible for such.

 

Hansaurius's ascendion and the mass exodus didn't happen before the thread got out. Yes, Hansaurius called you guys an enemy, but again that was because there was no geniue diplomacy from TS due to factors I stated before. (Such as poor timing and trying to keep the treaty secret from the membership). No, UPN didn't cancel because we were "salty". No, Hansaurius didn't decide to hate on TS for no good reason. We told you over and over, words over actions. TS gave us words. You then gave VE bad actions.

While "Grand Conspiracy" is hyperbole, NPO from its inception had decided that they would oppose tS and their sphere.

 

 

 

Also your entire salty argument is based on tS not wanting to be friends with VE... while they were trying to treaty UPN... See the flaw?

Edited October 2, 2016 by Raymond Reddington

[Kastor]

While "Grand Conspiracy" is hyperbole, NPO from its inception had decided that they would oppose tS and their sphere.Also your entire salty argument is based on tS not wanting to be friends with VE... while they were trying to treaty UPN... See the flaw?

NPO wanted to make it's own sphere, not oppose Syndisphere. They allied 2 on each side to more than likely pull them into an NPO-sphere. However, TKR is a lapdog and VE and SK went with Rose. Leaving Alpha as the sole from that 4 to stick with them.

[MrsPigeon]

The defeatism is strong in this thread.

 

Everyone is capable of playing like our side. The only god tier aa we have is Mensa, and they're kinda doing their own thing. If you guys just learned how to play the game and learned how to incentivize activity in your membership then maybe all of this wouldn't be happening. Instead, you decided to cry and whine in public about how we're so much better than you and it's unfair. We're not magically better than you. You can decide to be better at this game if you tried.

 

Sigh.

Edited October 2, 2016 by RoboMonkey

[Sans]

 TKR betrayed us.

 

NPO made a choice prior to the war that was in the forecast for a long time. You chose wrong, Mull over your own failings instead of blaming someone else. It is an important part of improvement. I know you can do it. 

 

 TKR is a lapdog 

 

Yeah, no. We determined having our allies rolled by our historical enemies to was not something we would like to see happen. If building a third sphere was what they were getting at, it was poorly planned but that is pretty apparent with the help of hindsight. By all means continue your narrative though, if it makes you feel important. 

[Kastor]

NPO made a choice prior to the war that was in the forecast for a long time. You chose wrong, Mull over your own failings instead of blaming someone else. It is an important part of improvement. I know you can do it.

 

 

 

Yeah, no. We determined having our allies rolled by our historical enemies to was not something we would like to see happen. If building a third sphere was what they were getting at, it was poorly planned but that is pretty apparent with the help of hindsight. By all means continue your narrative though, if it makes you feel important.

 

1. How did they make a choice when you went on the aggressive? iirc NPO didn't even want to join that war and would've sat out except they were blitzed by BK. I actually remember Roq saying that BEFORE the war.

 

2. Again, your allies went aggressively against your ally in NPO. You didn't have to join the war, you could've sat out, you didn't. As for the lapdog comment, every single political move has been at the aid of tS. To forcing Pantheon to drop/downgrade VE, to allying NPO to push them towards your bloc, to creating OO to consolidate your sphere. There isn't one thing you've done that ever went against the Syndicate narrative. If tS told you to do something right now, you'd do it, plain and simple. BK are semi lapdogs, they at least have some self respect.

Edited October 2, 2016 by Kastor

[Vanek26]

"1. Mensa HQ will pay 50 million dollars in cash, 5,000 aluminum, 5,000 steel, and 5,000 gas to the Viridian Entente as reparations for their unprovoked attack. Mensa HQ will have 10 days from this announcement to complete this payment in full."

 

Mensa paid that way back in May 2015, when that was a large amount of money for an alliance of our size. It didn't cripple us for all time. 

[Cypher]

NPO made a choice prior to the war that was in the forecast for a long time. You chose wrong, Mull over your own failings instead of blaming someone else. It is an important part of improvement. I know you can do it. 

 

You're right, NPO did make a piss poor choice in signing the treaty with TKR. I'm sure they'll remember it and will act upon it in the future.

 

You helped your ally get rolled, which is a massive *scummy* move. You could have refrained from entering in that war. You could have warned NPO that they were going to be attacked. Hell, you could have persuaded your other allies to not attack them. You did none of this and practically considered your treaty with Pacifica void. Spineless cowards, the lot of you.

 

To anyone reading this, do not even attempt to bring up the argument that the treaty had no intel article. If you have to rely on words on paper as a prompter to help your allies, then you should just disband your alliance.

 

 

Yeah, no. We determined having our allies rolled by our historical enemies to was not something we would like to see happen. If building a third sphere was what they were getting at, it was poorly planned but that is pretty apparent with the help of hindsight. By all means continue your narrative though, if it makes you feel important. 

 

If you truly felt this way, then why did you keep the treaty with NPO when you knew they were going to get rolled? Why did you sign a treaty with Pantheon knowing that they had two treaties with your "historical enemies"?

Edited October 2, 2016 by Cypher

[Sargun]

leave the shitposting to me, kayser, thanks

[Sisyphus]

I like how everyone always ignores the fact that the last war was a huge Hail Mary pass on our part. We were prepared, and likely, to lose that war (on our terms) and face the consequences moving forward.

 

Our enemies have always had better or comparable statistical odds than we have, and occasionally favorable political climates as well, very few of our wars have been easily won.

 

Most of them are terrifying for the first round, to be honest, and we only win via better activity or significant failures in resource management on the opposing side (generally).

 

We've only recently moved from the underdog spot (pinned between two and a half threatening spheres) to dominance, and our consolidation of skill and strength has been a direct result of bad power plays (or great power plays with bad follow-through) by virtually every significant member alliance in Blob-O-Sphere (whether you guys want to admit it or not).

 

Stop twisting history to squeeze out this victimized narrative. It undermines the accomplishments of our coalition AND undermines the incredible challenge all of our opposition has provided us over the last year and a half or so.

 

It's been fun. It hasn't been us rolling everyone for no reason. It's been hard fought and hard won. It's been a wild and entertaining ride.

 

We just happened to win out in the long run, and you're bitter about it.

Edited October 2, 2016 by Wilhelm the Demented

[Kastor]

I like how everyone always ignores the fact that the last war was a huge hail Mary on our part. We were prepared, and likely, to lose that war (on our terms) and face the consequences moving forward.

Our enemies have always had better or comparable statistical odds than we have, and occasionally favorable political climates as well, very few of our wars have been easily won.

Most of them are terrifying for the first round, to be honest, and we only win via better activity or significant failures in resource management on the opposing side (generally).

We've only recently moved from the underdog spot (pinned between two and a half threatening spheres) to dominance, and our consolidation of skill and strength has been a direct result of bad power plays by virtually every single member alliance in Blob-O-Sphere (whether you guys want to admit it or not).

Stop twisting history to squeeze out this victimized narrative. It undermines the accomplishments of our coalition AND undermines the incredible challenge all of our opposition has provided us over the last year and a half or so.

It's been fun. It hasn't been us rolling everyone for no reason. It's been hard fought and hard won. It's been a wild and entertaining ride.

We just happened to win out in the long run, and you're bitter about it.

Ehhh, this isn't really true. You've always had more alliances on your side and therefore more flexibility when it comes to war. 168 was somewhat even but every war you've had more.