Why Treaties are Bad

[Guinevere]

We should add a third sphere. We currently have a sphere based on flowers and the other based on money, why not make a strong third sphere based on something else?

[Sval]

We should add a third sphere. We currently have a sphere based on flowers and the other based on money, why not make a strong third sphere based on something else?

 

Tabasco sauce

[Vosunda]

We should add a third sphere. We currently have a sphere based on flowers and the other based on money, why not make a strong third sphere based on something else?

 

The Nuclear sphere, comin' up.

[DragonK]

On the matter of seriousness of treatys, I've so far never seen a MDAP, in my opinion a MDAP is only valid treaty taht shows your commitment to your ally. MDoAPs basically offer only to help if you're hit first, aka you're not the troublemaker and even then lots of alliances fail to deliver. If you really trusted your ally you'd sign a MDAP, adn declare with them every time they go to war, and they'd do the same for you. Sometimes striking first is crucial to winning, but oAP shows that you don't really trust your ally to know what he's declaring against. Personally I have a MDAP kind off attitude with all my fellow Arrgh members, regardless of who attacked whom first, if my fellow comraade is in trouble, and I'm in range, that mother!@#$er (wheter he's agressor or victim of Arrgh raid) better look out for me too.

[LordRahl2]

Maybe TUGT will come and tell me I am dead wrong.  However, all of MENSA's treaties are MDAPs.  We actually call them nothing of the kind.  We are simply allied to people and there is no offense/defense silliness involved.  You fight and we will fight with you.

[Peacity Peace]

It's almost as if people forget that everything that's an advantage is also a disadvantage.

[SoS]

It's almost as if people forget that everything that's an advantage is also a disadvantage.

Some use advantages and others are taken advantage of. Big balls have won over conservativism. Glad to see it.

[Ole]

Maybe TUGT will come and tell me I am dead wrong. However, all of MENSA's treaties are MDAPs. We actually call them nothing of the kind. We are simply allied to people and there is no offense/defense silliness involved. You fight and we will fight with you.

They are MDP. No A. Only MDAP i can remeber is terradoxia - BoC's Treaty.

[kalev60]

I have been involved in no writing of no treaties so take it as another ignorant and uninformed opinion, which it certainly is.

OP talks about alliances that give up the FA to master alliances, in those cases would it not be easier just to write up more creative treaty, like MPD coupled with an merger into the master, you aren't planning on having FA on your own anyways and want defence, that would also serve the idea of less AAs less treaties. 

Other major problem or maybe an interesting move in the treaty chess is AAs that intentionally screw up the block-building and work on getting treaties in on as many sides of potential conflicts possible. That too could be worked around with some creative writing adding clauses to treaties or dropping treaties.

As I don't believe treaty-web is going anywhere any time soon, the only thought I'm left with is how to make it more interesting or how to destabilize it a little . A good way to do it, I think, would be secret treaties, either by posting Plank with 2 alliance names on the forum or not posting at all. Getting alliances willing to go paperless might also add a measure of uncertainty to the web.  

[Ole]

Paperless is always better. and TEst would be Willing to offer a hand of friendship to Any AA Willing to take the leap. (Not an offical statement unless confirmed by Terminus Est leader or Head diplomat.)

[Boony]

Yeah, then the leadership of the alliance changes and you have a MADP w/ some idiot that you don't particularly trust.

[DragonK]

Yeah, then the leadership of the alliance changes and you have a MADP w/ some idiot that you don't particularly trust.

That's why you talk to people in that alliance, on dialy basis, and then when gov't changes you either know and trust the guy or you know adn don't trust the guy in wich case you downgrade the treaty. If they are your allys one would expect to show interest in their internal affairs as well.

[Foltest]

Yeah, then the leadership of the alliance changes and you have a MADP w/ some idiot that you don't particularly trust.

 

mfw people literally say shit implying you can't cancel a treaty once signed.

 

 

This cultural aversion to cancellations is lame.

[Keegoz]

Treaties aren't bad only people can be bad.

[Vanek26]

They are MDP. No A. Only MDAP i can remeber is terradoxia - BoC's Treaty.

We treat them as MDAP in any case. If Guardian, t$, or SK are going to war, we are going to war with them 100% (unless they ask us like with the Alpha shit to wait for Alpha's allies that were required by their treaties to attack t$ but then never did). 

[Ole]

We treat them as MDAP in any case. If Guardian, t$, or SK are going to war, we are going to war with them 100% (unless they ask us like with the Alpha shit to wait for Alpha's allies that were required by their treaties to attack t$ but then never did).

Yeah and thats fine, as long as it works for you, but they are still MDPs unless you upgraded them without me noticing(that could happen, i dont pay that Much attention). But an MDAP is still signing away abit Much of you'r independence wouldnt you agree? its fine to run with you'r allies all the time, but its kinda good that its you'r choise, not some contact On a pice of paper saying you're forced to do it?

[SoS]

Paperless is always better. and TEst would be Willing to offer a hand of friendship to Any AA Willing to take the leap. (Not an offical statement unless confirmed by Terminus Est leader or Head diplomat.)

Paperless was hugely successful early in the game. As more alliances and more paper came into the game, it became harder to remain paperless. It requires a strong alliance to begin with and strong relationships. Oddly, it has some of the benefits of neutrality with none of the liabilities.

[durmij]

They are MDP. No A. Only MDAP i can remeber is terradoxia - BoC's Treaty.

OS had one with somebody. SWF I think. But we al saw how that turned out.

[LordRahl2]

They are MDP. No A. Only MDAP i can remeber is terradoxia - BoC's Treaty.

You can call them potatoes if you want. They are alliances to us and that means if they fight we fight.

[Keegoz]

Treaties can't be bad only potatoes can be bad.

[Boony]

mfw people literally say shit implying you can't cancel a treaty once signed.

 

 

This cultural aversion to cancellations is lame.

Cancelling on someone is worst then just not signing them. You cancel on someone, you're basically saying "we don't want you". It can easily turn that alliance into a future enemy.

[Boony]

That's why you talk to people in that alliance, on dialy basis, and then when gov't changes you either know and trust the guy or you know adn don't trust the guy in wich case you downgrade the treaty. If they are your allys one would expect to show interest in their internal affairs as well.

Same as my previous reply. Downgrading treaties is a slap in the face.

 

But since we are on the topic of trusting your allies, why can't my allies rely on me to come in for them without a MADP? If my ally needs a treaty to trust that I'll come in, then they aren't good allies.

[Ole]

You can call them potatoes if you want. They are alliances to us and that means if they fight we fight.

Again im not commenting On you'r actuall relationships. Or the way you interperate the paper you've got. Im jut commenting on the type and text of the treaties you have. If you feel that they dont reflecr you'r actuall relationships, upgrade them

[LordRahl2]

Sounds like a silly exercise to do so.

[Chunky Monkey]

Sounds like they hold two treaties with each alliance they have paper treaties with. One paper treaty that solidifies the relationship, and one paperless, higher level treaty that expands on it but can be changed much easier. Honestly, I think that is a decent way to conduct affairs when you like who you're allied to and you both trust each other.