Press release from The Syndicate on Alpha and recent events

[Moreau]

Alpha doesn't want the war *right now* because their efforts have backfired. There's a difference in nuance there.

 

You are a warmonger. Put it to good use and roll GPA.

Edited April 21, 2016 by Moreau III

[Moreau]

Would you drop military if you knew that there's an alliance gearing up to attack you?

 

Hell no.

Edited April 21, 2016 by Moreau III

[jaguar]

I see that as attempt to end the hostility between them, but since tS doesn't want to end it, there ya go. To be honest, I don't have anything against tS, if you want to roll someone, just do it, just don't try to play a victim card

[Abbas Mehdi]

Thanks for responding to my posts in kind partisan. As I had earlier made clear I am not arguing here whether our attack on mensa was treaty wise defensive or offensive. I do still maintain that the war would not have happened if vanguard had not been raided. As far as mensa-vanguard not being one of the main agendas of rose at the time when tlf thing was happening is either a misunderstanding on your part about our intentions or misinformation from tim during the transition that occured. Mensa-vanguard was discussed even with sk a week before I talked to you about it, since sk and rose shared a mutual ally dhe, we were becoming quite close to them and shared this concern with them first before taking it up with ts. Your agreement to the proposal of rose and mensa having a 1v1 clearly shows that the whole war was very little about which treaty traps activate and more about how to resolve real issues. Fark entering alongside rose in the attacks was a major fact mainly due to the history fark and wtf shared in dealing with mensa and their own willingness to deal with the issue. The SK attack on nac was not an easy matter to deal with and your own allies were frustrated about the response made after that war. Our exit from the war was also swift, even though rose were basically sitting ducks we made sure the peace agreement was ratified by all parties involved before we officially exited. Your concerns surrounding my activity are valid and I don't blame you for that, we have always been under awkward positions of FA whenever things get heated up. Pretty sure we have also been equally in favorable positions of FA when we have been active. 

[Moreau]

How this war will play out on both sides.

 

 

 

 

Only winner will be GPA.

Edited April 21, 2016 by Moreau III

[jaguar]

Alpha doesn't want the war *right now* because their efforts have backfired. There's a difference in nuance there.

To be honest, Alpha could have attacked you anytime after the last war and get you rolled easily cause you weren't militarized, and they were

[fistofdoom]

There's plenty of catch up info on the first page

I cant be bothered to read it, myself.

[Buorhann]

It's okay buddy, at least you got in there before the Dutch wall began.

 

 

The Dutch know how to build dikes walls.

[Buorhann]

To be honest, Alpha could have attacked you anytime after the last war and get you rolled easily cause you weren't militarized, and they were

 

 

lol no.  They're too high tier.  We'd basically pull what Arrgh did to Mensa, just take players down one by one and carry them down to zero land.

[Roquentin]

It's clear cut enough. Our attacks stopped. Vanguard responded in the de facto ceasefire with a stack of declarations. Call it retaliation or revenge or a suicide hit or whatever, but it wasn't a defensive action.

 

And as for the comment about threatening NPO or anyone else - no one threatened "perma-raids." You don't see us out "perma raiding" anyone. We just bar raids against certain categories of alliances, and either those categories or post-war NAPs are the only way we prohibit raids. So no one was going to guarantee that NPO or new micros wouldn't get raided unless they fell into one of those categories. That remains the case. 

 

It's really not. The talks ended at an impasse with it being stated there was no perceived need to end the raids. A bunch of the original raid targets having been beiged left it ambiguous whether or not they would resume and the safe assumption given Mensa members had done sporadic raids the month before is that it would resume. A ceasefire cannot be effectively implemented unilaterally after the opposite impression is given.

 

It's still Vanguard here on the last part: it was just stated plainly that we were in a position where we'd be open to perma raids and that it was not incumbent on your leadership to stop the raids.  The discussion happened between MrHat and Pfeiffer.

[Auctor]

It's really not. The talks ended at an impasse with it being stated there was no perceived need to end the raids. A bunch of the original raid targets having been beiged left it ambiguous whether or not they would resume and the safe assumption given Mensa members had done sporadic raids the month before is that it would resume. A ceasefire cannot be effectively implemented unilaterally after the opposite impression is given.

 

It's still Vanguard here on the last part: it was just stated plainly that we were in a position where we'd be open to perma raids and that it was not incumbent on your leadership to stop the raids.  The discussion happened between MrHat and Pfeiffer.

Not that we dispute that that's absolutely Steve's fault.................somehow.

[Prefonteen]

Thanks for responding to my posts in kind partisan. As I had earlier made clear I am not arguing here whether our attack on mensa was treaty wise defensive or offensive. I do still maintain that the war would not have happened if vanguard had not been raided. As far as mensa-vanguard not being one of the main agendas of rose at the time when tlf thing was happening is either a misunderstanding on your part about our intentions or misinformation from tim during the transition that occured. Mensa-vanguard was discussed even with sk a week before I talked to you about it, since sk and rose shared a mutual ally dhe, we were becoming quite close to them and shared this concern with them first before taking it up with ts. Your agreement to the proposal of rose and mensa having a 1v1 clearly shows that the whole war was very little about which treaty traps activate and more about how to resolve real issues. Fark entering alongside rose in the attacks was a major fact mainly due to the history fark and wtf shared in dealing with mensa and their own willingness to deal with the issue. The SK attack on nac was not an easy matter to deal with and your own allies were frustrated about the response made after that war. Our exit from the war was also swift, even though rose were basically sitting ducks we made sure the peace agreement was ratified by all parties involved before we officially exited. Your concerns surrounding my activity are valid and I don't blame you for that, we have always been under awkward positions of FA whenever things get heated up. Pretty sure we have also been equally in favorable positions of FA when we have been active. 

 

No, I recall seeing logs of you speaking to Tim and unilaterally setting a timeline along the lines of ´if raids have not ended by day x, we're intervening'. I similarly recall dialing back and figuring out when the raids ended: All wars had ceased right before the set timeline (It later became apparent that Pfeiffer had ordered his members to back off, but failed to inform vanguard that this was occurring). Vanguard recognized hostilities *after* this fact. And you only brought the Vanguard issue up a good while later, after the TLF matter had been settled and we had agreed to demilitarization.

 

Now that in itself is not the topic we were discussing: It only matter in so far as to shed light on why the rationale that t$' defense of Mensa was inherently aggressive is unjustified. We similarly had no qualms with Fark's entry on an oA until our coalition's response (which indeed also included oA's) to your attack was shoved in our face as being morally wrong. Why was your oA supported yet our allies' somehow a crime against Alpha?

 

Your exit from the war was swift *after* we had exhausted your allied coalition's capacity to fight. The war could have technically been ended after a day, after two days, or after five days. I do agree that the SK situation was frustrating. That however has no bearing on why t$ felt betrayed by Alpha (again I will refer you to the OP for elaboration).

[Buorhann]

 

 

I'm sorry to clutter up the forums, but tS isn't really in the mood to talk to Alpha privately right now, so it seems. If you read the logs you can understand why.

 

While I'm not surprised to read this log, it still saddens me. Based on how the Syndicate behaved towards us, I knew their gov. was most likely plotting. But in order to create a threat, they had to act like they were being threatened.....to spread misinformation that Alpha was a threat to them. When that didn't materialize they just still plotted ahead. So.....

 

Care to explain, my old friends?

 

[10:46pm] Roy_Mustang: So instead of playing defense as we pretty much always have, we'd like to take the offensive for once.

[10:46pm] Brooklyn666: yea obviously

[10:47pm] Brooklyn666: I do think we need a better picture of who will be coming in on which side

[10:47pm] Roy_Mustang: The other side is tough because they're messy

[10:47pm] Brooklyn666: before any solid strategic planning can take place

[10:47pm] Roy_Mustang: UPN, internally, is a trainwreck

[10:48pm] Brooklyn666: that's not exactly a bad thing for us

[10:48pm] Roy_Mustang: no idea if they'll come in or not. I do know that the t$-UPN ODP is most likely dead because of Hans and Saru though

[10:48pm] Brooklyn666: although it does make them unpredictable

[10:49pm] Roy_Mustang: Rose does not desire to be a part of the next war

[10:49pm] Roy_Mustang: but I can't see a scenario where Alpha is struck and they don't come in

[10:49pm] Roy_Mustang: at least without completely destroying that relationship

[10:51pm] Roy_Mustang: VE can be safely counted alongside Alpha

[10:52pm] Roy_Mustang: if for no other reason than because they have no realistic other option (basically Rose's situation, except they haven't already said they want to stay out of a next war)

[10:52pm] Brooklyn666: I have mixed feelings about Rose getting in on this

[10:52pm] Brooklyn666: on one had, less mess to fight. On the other, them sitting out let's them grow while everyone else gets pummeled

[10:53pm] Roy_Mustang: I mean, if that's a huge concern, we could always preempt them alongside Alpha

 

Full Log:

 

Roy_Mustang: so interesting things are afoot

[10:25pm] Brooklyn666: so i hear

[10:25pm] Brooklyn666: any updates?

[10:30pm] Roy_Mustang: Something like that

[10:30pm] Roy_Mustang: I trust you're up to speed on the whole Sparta-TEst shitshow

[10:32pm] Brooklyn666: yea

[10:32pm] Brooklyn666: except any new developments that have happened this evening

[10:33pm] Roy_Mustang: nothing's happened this evening, and we don't expect it to

[10:33pm] Roy_Mustang: however

[10:35pm] Roy_Mustang: we suspect part of the reason Alpha was so quick to leap to the verge of hitting TEst is because they've already counted TEst to be in our corner in a hypothetical matchup

[10:36pm] Roy_Mustang: meanwhile we know that Alpha has been badmouthing us in backchannels and attempting to mobilize support against us

[10:36pm] Brooklyn666: I just don't get why they would hit TEst first

[10:37pm] Roy_Mustang: one less alliance to theoretically contend with

[10:38pm] Roy_Mustang: but in any event, it's actually a fairly minor part of our thinking

[10:39pm] Brooklyn666: it just doesn't make sense politically

[10:39pm] Brooklyn666: unless they think people aren't gonna declare in defense of TEst

[10:39pm] Roy_Mustang: that's the point

[10:40pm] Roy_Mustang: throw Alpha/Sparta/VE at TEst, should be a swift and decisive victory

[10:40pm] Roy_Mustang: TEst is good but they aren't *that* good

[10:40pm] Roy_Mustang: after that, TEst is a minor player at best in a later conflict

[10:40pm] Brooklyn666: but that's a transparent move and the best way to get declared on now

[10:41pm] Roy_Mustang: I'm not saying they're going to do it *now*

[10:41pm] Roy_Mustang: I'm just explaining their suspected reasoning before Seabass cleared things up

[10:42pm] Roy_Mustang: previously, it was the perfect CB to smack up TEst

[10:43pm] Roy_Mustang: In any event, like I said, it's a fairly minor point in our thinking. Fits in well, but even if it never happened, the rest of the theory remains credible (at least imo)

[10:46pm] Roy_Mustang: So instead of playing defense as we pretty much always have, we'd like to take the offensive for once.

[10:46pm] Brooklyn666: yea obviously

[10:47pm] Brooklyn666: I do think we need a better picture of who will be coming in on which side

[10:47pm] Roy_Mustang: The other side is tough because they're messy

[10:47pm] Brooklyn666: before any solid strategic planning can take place

[10:47pm] Roy_Mustang: UPN, internally, is a trainwreck

[10:48pm] Brooklyn666: that's not exactly a bad thing for us

[10:48pm] Roy_Mustang: no idea if they'll come in or not. I do know that the t$-UPN ODP is most likely dead because of Hans and Saru though

[10:48pm] Brooklyn666: although it does make them unpredictable

[10:49pm] Roy_Mustang: Rose does not desire to be a part of the next war

[10:49pm] Roy_Mustang: but I can't see a scenario where Alpha is struck and they don't come in

[10:49pm] Roy_Mustang: at least without completely destroying that relationship

[10:51pm] Roy_Mustang: VE can be safely counted alongside Alpha

[10:52pm] Roy_Mustang: if for no other reason than because they have no realistic other option (basically Rose's situation, except they haven't already said they want to stay out of a next war)

[10:52pm] Brooklyn666: I have mixed feelings about Rose getting in on this

[10:52pm] Brooklyn666: on one had, less mess to fight. On the other, them sitting out let's them grow while everyone else gets pummeled

[10:53pm] Roy_Mustang: I mean, if that's a huge concern, we could always preempt them alongside Alpha

[10:53pm] Roy_Mustang: the problem there is that it would virtually ensure a UPN entry

[10:53pm] Roy_Mustang: since that's a direct tie

[10:53pm] Brooklyn666: yea that's why I said mixed feelings

[10:56pm] Roy_Mustang: We've got Jess running numbers now to figure out how best to handle it

[10:57pm] Roy_Mustang: provisionally, we'd likely see Mensa in on NPO should that be necessary. We're not planning to hit them however

[10:57pm] Brooklyn666: I'm not sure NPO would jump in

[10:58pm] Roy_Mustang: We'd be seeing you guys and Guardian on Fark and Sparta, optimally (but again, still waiting on numbers). The irony of Guardian fighting Sparta is not lost on me, either

[11:01pm] Roy_Mustang: I certainly know that this potentially puts you guys in a tough spot, since Alpha and Sparta had previously reached out to you guys for a treaty

[11:01pm] Brooklyn666: we have an ODP with Sparta

[11:01pm] Brooklyn666: but nothing with Alpha. That's dead in the water as far as I'm concerned

[11:02pm] Roy_Mustang: I was referring to the pseudo-bloc thing

[11:02pm] Roy_Mustang: but yeah, I had forgotten about the ODP

[11:02pm] Roy_Mustang: Will need to swap things around

[11:05pm] Roy_Mustang: If we assume Alpha/Sparta/VE/UPN in the enemy coalition, initial thoughts?

[11:06pm] Brooklyn666: where does BK fit in?

[11:06pm] Brooklyn666: obviously we can't hit Sparta or NPO if they join in but otherwise we're fine

[11:07pm] Roy_Mustang: BK and tC on VE most likely, but we'll need to jump things around a bit

[11:08pm] Roy_Mustang: the most logical is probably having you guys come in alongside us actually, but I need to do more spreadsheet math first

[11:08pm] Roy_Mustang: just wanted to take your temperature on it first

[11:09pm] Brooklyn666: I mean it looks good to me but make sure Val is up to speed too

[11:09pm] Roy_Mustang: yeah definitely

[11:10pm] Brooklyn666: and let us know when you have preliminary numbers

[11:10pm] Brooklyn666: maybe run a few scenanrios to see options for if Rose and/or NPO come in

[11:10pm] Roy_Mustang: will do, we should have them tomorrow at the latest

 

 

 

edit: pastin linky too: http://pastebin.com/8EtMutDn

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://pastebin.com/8EtMutDn 

 

The first link displayed above shows a set of logs which was leaked from the private chambers of a close ally of The $yndicate. These logs detail Roy_Mustang, The Syndicate's  Head of IA discussing the possibility of a potential offensive on Alpha, whom he identified as a threat to the Syndicate due to continued manouvering and badmouthing against us. This post will provide a detailed explanation on the events that led up to the creation of the logs, as well as a breakdown of Steve's communications surrounding The $yndicate.

 

Upon being handed the logs, Steve and James responded by immediately pushing them to as many parties they could find in an attempt to convince them to join Alpha in a pre-emptive strike against us. 6 Hours later, Alpha government contacted Roy briefly with veiled threats of going public:

 

 

 

<Roy_Mustang> [23:54] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> I'm sure you know why I'm here.

<Roy_Mustang> [23:54] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> Care to explain?

<Roy_Mustang> [00:03] * You are now known as Roy_Mustang|Away

<Roy_Mustang> [00:04] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> Alright, we'll just talk it to the forums.

<Roy_Mustang> [00:04] <Roy_Mustang|Away> I am away at the moment, your message has been logged ( away for 29 secs )

<Roy_Mustang> [00:04] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]>   

<Roy_Mustang> [00:04] <Roy_Mustang|Away> I am away at the moment, your message has been logged ( away for 30 secs )

<Roy_Mustang> [00:04] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> That is your style anyway.

<Roy_Mustang> [00:04] <Roy_Mustang|Away> I am away at the moment, your message has been logged ( away for 39 secs )

<Roy_Mustang> [00:27] * You are now known as Roy_Mustang

<Roy_Mustang> [00:28] <Roy_Mustang> ah, I see you've become acquainted with my new auto-away script. I don't think I like it though, it amsgs my status and I hate amsg

<Roy_Mustang> [00:29] <Roy_Mustang> cute veiled threat while I was away though, I'll give you that   

<Roy_Mustang> [00:31] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> Not a threat.

<Roy_Mustang> [00:31] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> Just an acknowledgement of what is happening.

<Roy_Mustang> [00:31] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> So care to explain?

<Roy_Mustang> [00:31] <Roy_Mustang> I meant the "take it to the forums" bit

<Roy_Mustang> [00:31] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> That's a threat?

<Roy_Mustang> [00:32] <Roy_Mustang> maybe more a promise, i dunno, don't really care either

<Roy_Mustang> [00:33] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> http://pastebin.com/8EtMutDn

<Roy_Mustang> [00:33] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> Please explain, thanks.

<Roy_Mustang> [00:33] <Roy_Mustang> it's not as if the entirety of Orbis hasn't already seen the logdump you're referring to

<Roy_Mustang> [00:33] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> Then I'm sure you have a good answer.

<Roy_Mustang> [00:34] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> And who haven't you offered a treaty to?  Did GPA even turn you down?

<Roy_Mustang> [00:35] <Roy_Mustang> is that how we're going to start this off? really? lol

<Roy_Mustang> [00:35] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> Okay sure, I'll start.

<Roy_Mustang> [00:36] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> We haven't been bad mouthing you.

 

<Roy_Mustang> [00:36] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> Nor have we been mobilizing support.

<Roy_Mustang> [00:36] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> I don't give a shit about tS.

<Roy_Mustang> [00:36] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> I've told you this for a long time.

<Roy_Mustang> [00:36] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> But now I hear you guys are just going to attack us for shit that never even happened.

<Roy_Mustang> [00:36] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> So is that true or not?

<Roy_Mustang> [00:37] <Roy_Mustang> I'm gonna be blunt with you Steve

<Roy_Mustang> [00:37] <Roy_Mustang> Either Alpha is the victim of an Orbis-wide conspiracy to make y'all look bad, or you just recited a complete load of horseshit to me.

<Roy_Mustang> [00:38] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> So are you denying the logs are legit?

<Roy_Mustang> [00:39] <Roy_Mustang> I'm saying you just tried to feed me a pile of horseshit.

<Roy_Mustang> [00:39] <Roy_Mustang> And you know you just tried to feed me a pile of horseshit.

<Roy_Mustang> [00:40] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> I really hope you don't believe that.

<Roy_Mustang> [00:40] <Roy_Mustang> So if the only point of this conversation is to have a diplomatic pissing match, I'm going to bed.

<Roy_Mustang> [00:40] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> B/c remember we didn't even cancel our treaty.

<Roy_Mustang> [00:40] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> That was on y'all.

<Roy_Mustang> [00:40] <Roy_Mustang> And we can piss on each other in the morning.

<Roy_Mustang> [00:40] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> And I know you have been trying to run a PR train anywhere you can.

<Roy_Mustang> [00:40] <Roy_Mustang> Goodnight, Steve.

<Roy_Mustang> [00:40] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> Okay, so maybe lets just talk about the logs.

<Roy_Mustang> [00:41] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> So they are real, huH?

<Roy_Mustang> [00:41] * You are now known as Roy_Mustang|Away

<Roy_Mustang> [00:41] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> Yea, I thought so.

<Roy_Mustang> [00:41] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> See you on the forums.

<Roy_Mustang> [00:41] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]>   

 

 

 

Following the log above, Steve moved to post the following thread: 

 

 

https://politicsandwar.com/forums/index.php?/topic/12320-hello-to-the-syndicate/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Steve's beginning statement implies that The $yndicate was unwilling to enter into diplomacy, whereas Roy clearly stated it had to wait until the next morning, and while Steve's approach was less than diplomatic. It is worthwhile to make note of this occurrence as it falls in line with his style of operation over the past months: Playing a two-faced role towards ally and enemy alike.

 

His second statement indicates that The $yndicate has behaved aggressively against Alpha, that we have been plotting and that Alpha has sat made no moves to warrant this. It accuses the $yndicate of trying to manufacture a threat by spreading misinformation regarding Alpha, and that our current moves are the result of the failure of materialization of our plans.

 

We are asked to explain in public, and so we will.

 

First off: The background of our cancellation.

 

We move all the way back to the last war, when Alpha was still a close and valued ally of The Syndicate. When Rose brought about its CB (I will not delve into the details of that CB too much as it is not the primary focus of this post.) multiple weeks after the vanguard-Mensa recognition of hostilities, the $yndicate spent countless of hours in query with Rose and Alpha officials. We will spare you the details having to spit through countless logs. To summarize: After various attempts by the $yndicate to broker a diplomatic solution to the pending Rose-Mensa attack, Rose determined that it had to push forward and attack  Mensa HQ in defense of Vanguard.

 

As Vanguard was paperless and as The $yndicate held a Mutual Defense Pact with Mensa HQ, it went without saying that The $yndicate would be obligated to defend Mensa HQ against Rose. The lack of a treaty trigger or protection notice between Rose and Vanguard, in combination with Rose's unwillingness at the time to settle the matter diplomatically led The $yndicate along with its allies to enter on Mensa HQ. Both Guardian and SK maintained a similar treaty. Alpha initially was frustrated at our defense of Mensa, as they harbored resentment towards Mensa HQ and had made that abundantly clear to us. We delve into this history because it was brought to our attention that Alpha has been spreading select logs to support their statement that they were clear about their intentions from scratch. The full log (as the log spread by Alpha was but a snippet) can be found below:

 

 

 

01[21:38] <Partisan> I heard a whisper that Alpha might get involved

01[21:38] <Partisan> but it 'would not affect the war outcome or Rose/tS'?

01[21:38] <Partisan> What's going on

[21:43] <James[NG-Alpha]> You didn't hear a whisper.

[21:43] <James[NG-Alpha]> You heard it from Tim

[21:43] <James[NG-Alpha]>  

01[21:43] <Partisan> She whispered it to me in a soothing, sexy voice

01[21:43] <Partisan>  

01[21:43] <Partisan> but yeah, what's it about?

[21:46] <James[NG-Alpha]> It's about nothing. we don't know how the war is going to pan out.

01[21:48] <Partisan> I'm going off the Rose v Mensa assumption

[21:48] <James[NG-Alpha]> Anything unecessary.

[21:48] <James[NG-Alpha]> Lets say arrgh dow on tS for example

[21:48] <James[NG-Alpha]> though we wouldn't have any targets

[21:48] <James[NG-Alpha]> That's the sort of thing i'm talking about though.

01[21:48] <Partisan> Right

01[21:49] <Partisan> tS is going to need flexibility in movement if it wants to stand even a fighting chance against this Rose-VE-UPN coalition though

[22:00] <James[NG-Alpha]> I'm not very flexible

01[22:02] <Partisan> You're going to have to be concrete with what you want or don't want us to do

01[22:03] <Partisan> We're fighting from an underdog position. Unless we hear a concrete request, i'm going to assume everything is free game man

[22:09] <James[NG-Alpha]> We don't want Rose hit.

[22:10] <James[NG-Alpha]> and the same goes for tS.

[22:10] <James[NG-Alpha]> We won't accept chain ins.

[22:10] <James[NG-Alpha]> I don't think hitting Rose is your best route.

01[22:13] <Partisan> Wait

01[22:13] <Partisan> you won't accept chain ins at all?

01[22:13] <Partisan> You realize that you are going to write our !@#$ death warrant with that, correct?

01[22:13] <Partisan> Won't accept chain ins on Rose --> We need to turn to VE.

01[22:13] <Partisan> UPN won't accept chain ins on VE

01[22:13] <Partisan> --> Our entire sphere forced to the sidelines while t$ burns?

01[22:13] <Partisan> Really bro?

[22:16] <James[NG-Alpha]> I misspoke. I don't know what we'll do. Steve is the one who makes the final decisions.

01[22:16] <Partisan> I'll message Steve. This needs to be hashed out.

 

 

 

Now keep in mind that

a) Alpha claimed not to be picking sides and

 We were looking at a scenario where Rose was going to hit Mensa HQ, who had 3 MDP's: Guardian, t$ and SK. It had already become clear that both UPN and VE would honor their treaties, even if it was chaining (meaning: VE would defend Rose from counters and UPN would defend VE from counters). The implication of Alpha's decision to limit our possible counters to just t$, Guardian and SK was that these parties would be easily picked off and countered by VE and other Rose allies. The t$ allies who countered VE would in turn be picked up by UPN. A defacto death trap. 

 

Rose entered the war and The $yndicate, with the above in mind, opted to defend its ally. oA's were brought in to avoid the trap. As communications between Alpha and t$ continued, we eventually came to an understanding. Steve would limit its involvement to just Roz Wei. Alpha initially pitched the option in query:

 

 

 

[05:58] Session Ident: Steve_Buscemi[NG] (Coldfront, Partisan) ([email protected]<script data-cfhash='f9e31' type="text/javascript">/* */</script>)

[05:58] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> Hey man!

[05:58] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> I bet you don't have any querries going on right now.  

[05:58] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> You got a sec, now that we are both calmer.

01[05:58] <Partisan> Hey

01[05:59] <Partisan> I do

01[05:59] <Partisan> Also heads up: I'm in a chan with abbas and have pulled in James to make sure Alpha has an idea of whats going on

[05:59] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> So, I'm a bit calmer.

[05:59] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> Can you invite me too?

01[05:59] <Partisan> I've made a tentative peace offer that can un!@#$ this entire situation

01[05:59] <Partisan> sure

01[05:59] <Partisan> #Partisan

01[05:59] <Partisan> let me drop you logs

[05:59] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> Sure, thanks.

[05:59] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> So, I was going to talk to you about Roz.

[06:00] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> Kind of in the same situation as Rose/Vanguard.

06[06:00] * Partisan nods

[06:00] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> And you know my thoughts, but I'm trying to avoid your allies.

[06:00] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> And Roz presents that opportunity.

[06:00] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> Also, while I disagree, I understand Gu, you, SK's involvement.

[06:00] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> And by that I mean....I know you had to do what you had to do.

[06:00] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> But, Roz should get !@#$ed up a bit.

01[06:01] <Partisan> It means a lot hearing that man. I appreciate that

[06:01] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> And if James is telling me is true, if Mensa doesn't pull shit.

[06:01] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> Then I'll leave it up to Abbas/Rose and you.

01[06:01] <Partisan> By the way, I did tell James the same: While I do disagree and did feel betrayed, I do apologize for blowing up on you. Frustration with you reached peak level and I should have been more diplomatic

[06:02] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> And you'll have my support whatever you decide.

[06:02] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> Yea, we were both blunt, tired, and venting.  No big deal.

[06:02] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> I appreciate the bluntness.

[06:02] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> It's when we are fake nice that it's a problem.

01[06:02] <Partisan> That is true.

[06:02] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> Bah, we both like this game.

01[06:02] <Partisan> It's bad to leave things in the air, ha

[06:02] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> It was good to chat with Manthrax a bit, just a different face.

01[06:03] <Partisan> So on your Roz question

[06:03] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> Well, I realized late that war is fun too.

01[06:03] <Partisan> Honestly, I think that is a type of involvement I can agree to in private. It safeguards my allies.

[06:03] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> Roz, is kind of in the same boat as Rose, so if you don't support Rose, you can't really support Roz either.....or that was my thinking.

[06:04] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> And Guardian will always be a sorta no-go, I won't even lie and say it's b/c they are your allies...it's b/c of my history and Alpha's plus they were our protectors.

[06:04] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> But Roz....hell naw man.

01[06:04] <Partisan> It sucks for Roz Wei but it's the pragmatic solution that allows you to defend your ally without !@#$ us too hard

01[06:04] <Partisan> Am I reading that the right way?

[06:04] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> Yea.

01[06:04] <Partisan> Let me get a second opinion from Roy

01[06:05] <Partisan> but i'm not opposed to it. As a sign of goodwill I can probably throw a little cash at roz post-war to smooth that over

[06:05] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> But I'm curious to here what comes from talks.

01[06:05] <Partisan> and everyone wins.

01[06:05] <Partisan> Yeah the talks I hope can fix this mess

[06:05] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> With that said, I don't have any issues with Roz's entrace, I respect paperless, we defended paperless, but it's only b/c Rose is using paperless and people are going after it, that I think Roz is fair game.

[06:05] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> Although I wish you'd leave Fark alone.

[06:06] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> I think Mensa took care of them just fine.  And Fark will learn a very valuable lesson.  Trust me when I say, I was not doing milcom for Rose/Fark.

[06:06] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> If I had been, this is not what it would've looked like.

[06:06] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> As Memph can attest to.  So know that our involvement wasn't central - Memph can be like, "yea if Buscemi was running shit every target would be covered"

[06:06] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> That's what we did with UPN.

06[06:07] * Partisan nods

01[06:07] <Partisan> I don't think your involvement is central man. Didn't think that at any point.

01[06:08] <Partisan> I think that's a matter of heated situation, me wording my thoughts wrongly and you interpreting it wrongly as a result

01[06:09] <Partisan> I thought you were (unwittingly) complicit in harming t$' position. The approach im getting from you guys now tells me a more tame story though

01[06:10] <Partisan> On the fark thing

01[06:11] <Partisan> mind thinking along with me before I answer abbas?

01[06:11] <Partisan> My initial take on fark compensation is: 'well, they went oA on Mensa. This is the risk they take. Guardian isn't going to get compensated either. Shouldn't compensation fall on Rose's coalition?'

01[06:12] <Partisan> That's also a point I will receive if I push it

[06:12] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> Yea, I think James talked to you and said you guys now Rose wasn't planning the PP thing.

01[06:12] <Partisan> the 2nd issue i'm seeing is that it will be perceived as a surrender on our side- any compensation will be perceived as reps. We are prepared to peace out and leave this whole episode behind. I don't think I have the traction and momentum to broker a surrender

[06:12] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> Or at least that's what I heard.

01[06:12] <Partisan> Also, if you dont mind im copying that bit to james too

[06:13] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> I mean, Arrgh/PP etc.  And if they were, they haven't told me.

01[06:13] <Partisan> since we're having two of the same conversations haha

[06:13] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> Ahh, I told him we were querrying

[06:13] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> dude, should just make a joint tS-Alpha high gov.

[06:13] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> Since James and I really are the two to talk to.

01[06:13] <Partisan> lets kick it up real quick

[06:13] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> Just like me and James and your top 3-4

[06:13] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> full opsec clearance

01[06:14] <Partisan> #wallstreet

[06:14] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> banned

[06:14] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> err booted

01[06:16] <Partisan> rejoin

Session Close: Fri Feb 05 07:37:05 2016

 

 

 

The above log shows Steve pitching the idea of limited entry in order to 'avoid t$ allies'. He also shows understanding of SK/Guardian/t$' reason for entry and confirms that he will 'leave it up to Rose and us'. And so it occurred: Alpha limited itself to Roz Wei and the coalition warfare continued.

 

Days later, VE opened a front on The King's Parliament and SK opened a front on NAC (who was allied to VE and UPN), thus triggering the UPN treaty.

 

It was after this trigger was made, on the night when UPN entered the fray against TKR, that Alpha launched a surprise assault upon our ally in Seven Kingdom's. The attack was unannounced and in direct contradiction to the scenario discussed above. Please view:

 

Log with James which occured as I discovered the hit:

 

 

 

 

Session Start: Tue Feb 09 04:41:08 2016

Session Ident: James[NG-Alpha]

01[06:27] <Partisan[E-SchlongWhippedOut]> hey

01[06:27] <Partisan[E-SchlongWhippedOut]> you or steve around?

[06:28] <James[NG-Alpha]> I'm kind of around. Watching a movie

01[07:34] <Partisan> James[NG-Alpha]

[07:34] <James[NG-Alpha]> Sup

01[07:34] <Partisan> So

01[07:34] <Partisan> UPN just engaged TKR

01[07:34] <Partisan> Seems like covenant is moving to take us out, ha

01[07:36] <Partisan> Why the !@#$

01[07:36] <Partisan> did Steve hit SK?

[07:41] <James[NG-Alpha]> SK declared on the entire coalition

[07:42] <James[NG-Alpha]> Hit NAC outside of a treaty chain. Didn't want to get premepted. Weren't going to do anything else but SK said/did what they dif

[07:42] <James[NG-Alpha]> Did*

01[07:42] <Partisan> Is that going to be your spin?

01[07:42] <Partisan> Then tell my why UPN is on TKR

01[07:43] <Partisan> as for SK's declaration:

01[07:43] <Partisan> From the Seven Kingdoms

01[07:43] <Partisan> I, Valdoroth Kai, King of the Seven Kingdoms, first of his name and Duke of House Drox do formally declare war on the North American Confederacy to liberate their people from their government and in defense of our coalition partners.

01[07:43] <Partisan> Any acts of aggression against our allies in this war, or those that support our allies are seen as the enemy and must be appropriately dealt with.

01[07:43] <Partisan> Valdoroth Kai

01[07:43] <Partisan> He formally declares war on NAC

01[07:43] <Partisan> the latter is a general statement. *not* a declaration of war

01[07:43] <Partisan> which is supported by no wars being launched

01[07:43] <Partisan> Furthermore, you have just broken the intelligence clause of our treaty.

Session Start: Tue Feb 09 07:47:18 2016

Session Ident: James[NG-Alpha]

01[07:47] <Partisan> Sk and TKR are both allies of t$. I presume that you were aware of UPN's hit

01[07:47] <Partisan> you have no informed us of a hit on either ally, both of which would be classified as 'a direct threat to t$ security'

[07:48] <James[NG-Alpha]> Lol talk to Steve dude. I'm not going to listen to you spin some BS.

01[07:48] <Partisan> I will talk to Steve

01[07:48] <Partisan> and don't worry, we still will not attack you

01[07:49] <Partisan> but i'm sure you understand we're pissed.

[07:49] <James[NG-Alpha]> Because that's such a !@#$ burden. Keep threatening us and Rose this entire time and say we are violating the treaty? Are you kidding me?

01[07:50] <Partisan> Good luck James.

[07:50] <James[NG-Alpha]> "If you don't take peace will make this war pyrrhic" "we are negotiating with a gun pointed at our heads" those quotes came from the same person.

[07:50] <James[NG-Alpha]> Have fun making this about tS

[07:51] <James[NG-Alpha]> It never has been

01[07:51] <Partisan> Correct. We've reached our limit after being dicked around for over a week.

01[07:52] <Partisan> You know full well that I have bent over backwards to accommodate both you and Rose. 

[07:52] <James[NG-Alpha]> Saying you won't attack your treaty partner sure is bending over backwards

01[07:52] <Partisan> 1<Partisan> <Partisan> I'm going to be frank with you man. We've consistently tried to be more than cooperative before the war started- and were met with hostility and escalation. We've tried to be more than cooperative since the war started- and are being met with ambiguity and stalling.

01[07:52] <Partisan> 01<Partisan> <Partisan> We understand Rose believes that it holds leverage. But the $yndicate is not the type of alliance to grovel for peace. We've offered peace as we believe it beneficial to both. But do not mistake this for weakness. We can still make the war pyrrhic to all parties involved.

01[07:52] <Partisan> 01<Partisan> <Partisan> My board is getting restless.

01[07:52] <Partisan> This was my quote.

01[07:52] <Partisan> If you wish to bring it up

01[07:52] <Partisan> and I stand the !@#$ by it.

01[07:53] <Partisan> Because it is the truth. We have been cooperative. We have let you all hit Roz Wei and done nothing. We have let VE rampage to appease UPN. We have offered Rose white peace including concessions. We have offered Rose a 1v1 with Mensa. We have spent hours trying to reason with UPN.

01[07:54] <Partisan> But hey, go ahead and pin it on us.

[07:54] <James[NG-Alpha]> It's been mensa

[07:54] <James[NG-Alpha]> You support Mensa behaviour. Mensa won't change they didn't after NAC

[07:54] <James[NG-Alpha]> 6all wanted to keep declaring wars

[07:54] <James[NG-Alpha]> The SK said we were their enemies

[07:54] <James[NG-Alpha]> Then*

[07:55] <James[NG-Alpha]> Didn't leave us much choice

01[07:55] <Partisan> Did you talk to SK?

01[07:55] <Partisan> or to tS about this?

01[07:55] <Partisan> you know, kind of like we continuously talked to you about our thoughts and process, even if you didn't like it?

[07:55] <James[NG-Alpha]> Ehy so SK can prempt us?

01[07:55] <Partisan> Like the quote above

01[07:55] <Partisan> SK did not launch a single hit on you

01[07:55] <Partisan> and your logic is bullshit. You know that

[07:55] <James[NG-Alpha]> Ya'll are all about premepts and hitting non involved parties

01[07:56] <Partisan> LOL

[07:56] <James[NG-Alpha]> Well your allie s are

01[07:56] <Partisan> YOU just hit SK. t$ has not hit jackshit except follow its treaties.

[07:56] <James[NG-Alpha]> Didn't I say except tS?

01[07:57] <Partisan> So you decide to break your word to tS without warning

01[07:57] <Partisan> and pre-empt its ally

01[07:57] <Partisan> Great going man. Great going

[07:58] <James[NG-Alpha]> We didn't preempt

[07:58] <James[NG-Alpha]> They declared on us

[07:59] <James[NG-Alpha]> Also they hit fark

[07:59] <James[NG-Alpha]> Not a premepted far within bounds

[08:00] <James[NG-Alpha]> Attacking our ally and declaring on alpha

[08:01] <James[NG-Alpha]> Did you know SK was hitting Fark? Our ally? Did 6ou tell us they were hitting our ally?

[08:01] <James[NG-Alpha]> Doesn't matter because it doesn't violate the intelligence clause

01[08:02] <Partisan> Difference! Fark directly hit SK's ally, therefore: It was only logical and expected.

01[08:02] <Partisan> since they did so on an oA

01[08:02] <Partisan> you know, something you apparently despise

 

 

 

The above confrontation seems James giving SK's wording of the DoW as its primary reason for its war. Upon being confronted with the actual text of the treaty, he makes a series of accusations, calls a private chat with an ally who is outraged over a taken action 'spin' and follows up by using SK's defense of Mensa against a Fark oA as his excuse for declaring. Worthy to note: Steve condemned the oA's on Rose while supporting Fark's oA on Mensa (as well as Rose's oA on Mensa, though he believed that to be a mandatory defense).

 

Similar logs with Steve:

 

 

 

 

01[06:18] <Partisan[E-SchlongWhippedOut]> so

01[06:18] <Partisan[E-SchlongWhippedOut]> Steve_Buscemi[NG]

01[07:34] <Partisan> Steve_Buscemi[NG]

[08:02] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> Sup mate

[08:02] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> Sorry we had to return fire.

[08:02] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> But SK declared war on our entire side.

01[08:02] <Partisan> You didn't have to. SK did not launch a single war

[08:02] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> And that means us.

[08:03] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> They still declared war on our side.

01[08:03] <Partisan> I sure understand why you are running with this rhetoric

01[08:03] <Partisan> they didn't. Let's grab the DoW shall we

01[08:03] <Partisan> From the Seven Kingdoms

01[08:03] <Partisan> I, Valdoroth Kai, King of the Seven Kingdoms, first of his name and Duke of House Drox do formally declare war on the North American Confederacy to liberate their people from their government and in defense of our coalition partners.

01[08:03] <Partisan> Any acts of aggression against our allies in this war, or those that support our allies are seen as the enemy and must be appropriately dealt with.

01[08:03] <Partisan> Valdoroth Kai

[08:03] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> Plus, yea, I figured you would understand.

[08:03] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> He also posted in the topic.

01[08:03] <Partisan> Declares war on NAC.

[08:03] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> That is not how I view it.

[08:03] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> Sorry mate.

[08:03] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> You declared war my ally.

[08:03] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> Then you had SK declare war on my other ally.

[08:03] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> I let that go.

[08:03] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> B/c I knew there was more to it.

[08:04] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> But when someone threats Alpha we will return fire, with full force.

[08:04] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> I'm sorry they are your allies.

01[08:04] <Partisan> So you're saying that you are breaking your word to tS and firing on tS' ally

01[08:04] <Partisan> because of words said in a topic?

[08:04] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> No, I didn't break my word.

01[08:04] <Partisan> That's an interesting perspective.

[08:04] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> Not one single time to you.

[08:04] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> I told you why Roz.

[08:04] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> I told you why SK.

01[08:04] <Partisan> You stated directly that you would limit yourself to Roz.

[08:04] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> It's not my fault SK declared war on Alpha.

01[08:04] <Partisan> SK did not declare war on Alpha

[08:04] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> Limit?

01[08:04] <Partisan> And you know it

[08:05] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> If SK declares war on us, how am I to limit it to Roz?

01[08:06] <Partisan> SK did not declare war on you.

[08:08] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> They declared war on our side.

[08:08] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> You and I know this.

[08:09] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> They are even trying to get out of it by offering a silly stupid amount of only $50m.

01[08:09] <Partisan> No, you and I do not know this.

01[08:09] <Partisan> As for the 50M: That was to rectify a screw-up

01[08:09] <Partisan> as NAC was not supposed to have been hit by SK

01[08:10] <Partisan> Something i've tried to rectify diplomatically. But you were too busy being hungup over the wording of a DoW and frothing at the mouth at the idea of being able to help Rose further.

[08:24] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> That was not to "rectify" anything.

[08:24] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> That was a slap in the face.

[08:25] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> You knew SK had screwed up.

[08:25] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> And attacked our entire coalition.

[08:25] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> If they were seriously it would be 100,000 steel and $200m at least.

01[08:25] <Partisan> No, I did not. SK never attacked your entire coalition. They launched wars on NAC and formally declared war on NAC

01[08:25] <Partisan> If you want to talk about Valdoroth's post, talk to valdoroth

01[08:25] <Partisan> I do not control his thoughts or words.

[08:25] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> No, they called us by "our side"

[08:25] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> they saw us as one unit.

[08:25] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> That is their mistake.

[08:26] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> We will not take threats lightly.

[08:26] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> Sorry, they are your allies.

[08:26] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> But I understood you attacking my allies over their defense of Rose.

01[08:26] <Partisan> This is utterly ludicrous steve. Where do you find the !@#$ guts to call me out for 'slapping you in the face' while I am working over hours to try and solve a situation gone wrong in a way that sees all parties somewhat appeased?

[08:26] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> I will not allow you to tell me I don't have the right to defend my members against outside attack, even from your allies.  Sorry man.

[08:27] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> I don't think Mensa wanted to solve anything diplomatically with Vanguard and I only think SK did when they realized what they had done.

01[08:27] <Partisan> Ultimately this is just going to be another one of these matters were we completely disagree on the interpretation of events.

[08:27] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> That's not diplomacy, sorry.

[08:27] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> I guess so.

[08:27] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> 

01[08:27] <Partisan> You want to know what really happened

01[08:27] <Partisan> Surrounding the SK hit?

01[08:27] <Partisan> You could have !@#$ asked- since I have the logs to back it up

01[08:28] <Partisan> I told TKP to talk to Guardian and Mensa about coordinating on VE (after VE hit them)- since it was their front.

01[08:28] <Partisan> TKP then messaged SK (mistaking them for Guardian) and sent a bunch of NAC targets their way, stating I told them to coordinate with them.

01[08:28] <Partisan> Apparently they thought the front included NAC (globally)

01[08:28] <Partisan> SK acted on that.

01[08:29] <Partisan> And when it occurred, received backlash from us- That is also when I began working on a solution

01[08:29] <Partisan> Your whole rhetoric about 'declaring on the whole coalition'- frankly, I was not even aware that was an issue until you just attacked them.

01[08:29] <Partisan> So yeah, I'm god !@#$ pissed.

[08:33] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> I would imagine so, and I'm sorry for that.

[08:33] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> But you should understand they declared war on us, in my view.

[08:33] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> And, I've remained calm why you piled on my ally Fark

[08:33] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> And even Rose.

[08:33] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> Due to the situation

[08:33] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> so now, due to the situation, I need you to understand why we are defending ourselves.

[08:33] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> Something I would think you would understand.

01[08:34] <Partisan> piled on your ally fark?

01[08:34] <Partisan> Fark ran into Mensa with an oA - something you have given me shit for doing with Rose

01[08:34] <Partisan> Fark was then countered by 1 Mensa ally- SK

01[08:34] <Partisan> you call that a pile?

01[08:34] <Partisan> That's spin and bs, and you know it steve.

[08:34] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> No, I gave you shit for defending Rose with MDPs when Rose the was aggressor.

[08:34] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> *Mensa was

[08:34] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> Mensa was the aggressor.

[08:34] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> lol

01[08:34] <Partisan> <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> No, I gave you shit for defending Rose with MDPs when Rose the was aggressor.

01[08:35] <Partisan> I told you before that this is exactly our view

01[08:35] <Partisan> and why we defend Rose. Factually, our treaty triggered

[08:35] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> That was a typo.

[08:35] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> And you know it.

01[08:35] <Partisan> simple as that

01[08:35] <Partisan> now you can make an argument that Rose had the right to declare on Mensa

[08:35] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> No, I gave you shit for defending Rose with MDPs when Mensa the was aggressor.

01[08:35] <Partisan> because of paperless friendships

01[08:35] <Partisan> But that does *not* take away my obligation to my ally

01[08:35] <Partisan> if I were to not defend Mensa, anyone would be able to declare on them and claim 'lol paperless'

01[08:35] <Partisan> It's an idiotic notion.

01[08:36] <Partisan> It's the exact same reason why you declared on Roz and not on t$

01[08:36] <Partisan> or Guardian

01[08:36] <Partisan> As for SK: Did they launch a single war against you

01[08:36] <Partisan> tell me that

[08:43] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> I understand your obligation to your ally and that's why I didn't just outright declare on those hitting Fark/Rose.

[08:43] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> Even if I disagree.

[08:43] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> But, we will always defend threats to Alpha.

[08:43] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> And if we are all "their side" to SK.

[08:43] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> Then they see no difference.

[08:43] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> And we will respond accordingly.

01[08:44] <Partisan> SK was not a threat to alpha. We !@#$ shielded you from hits steve

01[08:44] <Partisan> Despite our differences, we !@#$ shielded you from counters.

01[08:44] <Partisan> And you took advantage of it by striking SK.

[08:45] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> I have no way to know that, I'm sorry.

[08:45] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> But, the truth is you didn't.

[08:45] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> Because they still declared war on our side.

[08:46] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> If you are going to view this as a coalition vs. coalition, then we have to respond accordingly.

01[08:46] <Partisan> The truth is, we did

01[08:46] <Partisan> because you are making a point out of SK's wording when you damn well know that it's utter crap

01[08:46] <Partisan> If Sk declared on you, you would have !@#$ known it.

01[08:46] <Partisan> Via your dec screen.

01[08:47] <Partisan> But sure, I understand that t$ shielding you from counters does not fit in your rationale of us being inherently in the wrong.

01[08:47] <Partisan> Good luck with your war steve. We'll talk again when i'm cooled down.

 

 

 

The above log is the first confrontation between Steve and myself over his hit on SK, and explains the same rationales being brought to light. Ill-founded diplomacy on our forums and some choice logs between other syndicate government officials and Steve/James ultimately soured the relation even further. 

 

Though we knew the treaty would be cancelled and though we felt hugely betrayed, we decided to honor our treaty and refrain from cancelling until our post-war review. Instead, we went on a solo endeavor against UPN. The importance of knowing this background lies in the progression of events: Following our cancellation, Steve immediately went to work on consolidating his new sphere. 

 

Right after the war we received the following log. The log concerns a conversation with Abbas (ex-Rose FA, notable head. Involved in every Rose campaign against t$ to date) about Rose's future, and t$' future demise:

 

 

 

 

 

abbasmehdi [11:02 PM]

Our top tier and upper mid tier intact

 

[11:02]

Next war we aren't joining

 

 

abbasmehdi [11:02 PM]

But don't tell anyone that

 

 

abbasmehdi [11:03 PM]

Cause the moment you do

 

[11:03]

People end up rolling you

 

abbasmehdi [11:03 PM]

NPO is taking the charge

 

abbasmehdi [11:03 PM]

Also last war if rose didn't go first wave we wouldn't have made or moralistic point

 

[11:04]

Our*

 

abbasmehdi [11:04 PM]

And convinced all our allies that we are loyal mofos

 

 

abbasmehdi [11:04 PM]

We pulled in alpha

 

abbasmehdi [11:04 PM]

We are about to pull in pantheon

 

 

abbasmehdi [11:04 PM]

And Sparta treatied alpha to be close to rose

 

abbasmehdi [11:04 PM]

It's pretty solid

 

abbasmehdi [11:05 PM]

OO is moving away from ts cause of mensa

 

 

abbasmehdi [11:05 PM]

No

 

 

abbasmehdi [11:05 PM]

Boc might join oo

 

 

abbasmehdi [11:05 PM]

Then we treaty upn

 

 

abbasmehdi [11:05 PM]

But only after boc joins oo

 

[11:05]

Nuklear Knights is going paperless

 

 

abbasmehdi [11:06 PM]

2 months later we treaty them

 

abbasmehdi [11:06 PM]

So far so good for the cost of 800k steel

 

abbasmehdi [11:07 PM]

Nah

 

[11:08]

NPO is legit alongside our sphere

 

[11:08]

We are tied to our hips

 

abbasmehdi [11:08 PM]

I am not so sure

 

[11:08]

But I think pre is gonna hijack ts sphere

 

 

abbasmehdi [11:08 PM]

After ts gets rolled

 

 

abbasmehdi [11:08 PM]

He is consolidating test and guardian right now

 

[11:08]

So it could be him

 

abbasmehdi [11:09 PM]

They aren't as far as I know right now

 

 

abbasmehdi [11:13 PM]

I don't think they will yet

 

[11:13]

Maybe after boc joins

 

[11:13]

Ts might go paperless before that happens though

 

 

[11:13]

and if they go paperless they're !@#$ed

 

abbasmehdi [11:13 PM]

Yeah

 

 

abbasmehdi [11:15 PM]

Doesn't change anything in respect to npo wanting to roll mensa

 

 

abbasmehdi [11:15 PM]

Tkr is tied to npo

 

 

abbasmehdi [11:15 PM]

Yeah and tkr stays out

 

 

abbasmehdi [11:15 PM]

Syndicate can't drop sk and guardian too

 

 

abbasmehdi [11:16 PM]

Who are you talking with?

 

 

abbasmehdi [11:18 PM]

Ts may pull a paperless before they think of dropping mensa

 

[11:18]

Cause they got 2 other allies

 

 

abbasmehdi [11:18 PM]

That are tied

 

abbasmehdi [11:21 PM]

Thank God Carter is there for that

 

abbasmehdi [11:21 PM]

I know what you mean, I am keeping a close eye on it

 

 

abbasmehdi [11:21 PM]

We got alpha

 

 

abbasmehdi [11:22 PM]

We pack our bags

 

 

abbasmehdi [11:22 PM]

If they throw Carter and start treaty rose like shit

 

[11:22]

We pack our bags

 

[11:22]

Treating*

 

 

abbasmehdi [11:23 PM]

Not really

 

[11:24]

They got a grudge against alpha

 

 

abbasmehdi [11:24 PM]

And they are using Sparta to plan to !@#$ them over

 

[11:24]

Yeah a little talking

 

 

abbasmehdi [11:25 PM]

Even after proxy war I was looking at keeping ts safe

 

[11:25]

I have lost absolute faith in them

 

[11:25]

And I assume every move they do is to !@#$ someone over now

 

 

abbasmehdi [11:25 PM]

Npo will charge on someone

 

 

abbasmehdi [11:26 PM]

That's the only way we will find out how well they will treat us

 

 

 

abbasmehdi [11:26 PM]

Npo needs our allies

 

 

abbasmehdi [11:26 PM]

Well they might take ve

 

abbasmehdi [11:26 PM]

But not alpha

 

 

abbasmehdi [11:27 PM]

Alpha is so close I share more opsec with them then I share with pub

 

[11:27]

No there's no plan for that

 

 

abbasmehdi [11:27 PM]

Alpha knows our situation

 

[11:27]

They are keeping an eye on it

 

 

abbasmehdi [11:27 PM]

We are !@#$ ed if that happens

 

 

abbasmehdi [11:28 PM]

I am not making self fulfilling prophecies

 

[11:28]

We will see how npo is doing

 

[11:28]

If things get hit

 

 

abbasmehdi [11:28 PM]

Hot

 

[11:28]

We tell people

 

[11:28]

Otherwise we keep our mouth shut and observe

 

 

abbasmehdi [11:29 PM]

But as of right now I can confirm for the next 2 wars

 

[11:29]

Npo isn't gonna make a move on rose

 

 

abbasmehdi [11:30 PM]

Yeah we need to be massive

 

 

abbasmehdi [11:30 PM]

Dominate top tiers and got a seriously bad ass mid tier

 

[11:31]

With warchest in every nation

 

 

abbasmehdi [11:32 PM]

That kool-aid is too strong

 

[11:33]

We just need to show them they need to work hard

 

[11:33]

And they then need to taste victory a bit

 

abbasmehdi [11:33 PM]

That's the tough part

 

[11:34]

How do you mobilize an entire alliance without drama

 

 

abbasmehdi [11:35 PM]

The fa updates are for pw

 

[11:35]

And it will be done after the things are done

 

[11:35]

Discussing rose fa is a huge can of worms man

 

 

abbasmehdi [11:36 PM]

Also our aa is not filled with (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn&#39;t be bringing it up anyways) veterans

 

 

abbasmehdi [11:36 PM]

Most of them don't care about politics

 

 

abbasmehdi [11:36 PM]

Yeah that sounds good

 

[11:36]

Direction thread

 

[11:36]

and just have the core

 

abbasmehdi [11:36 PM]

We had it before

 

abbasmehdi [11:36 PM]

We need to revive it

 

abbasmehdi [11:37 PM]

We used to have better forums when phrogg was still around

 

 

abbasmehdi [11:38 PM]

Wait when?

 

 

 

 

The name and comments of the person abbas speaks to have been edited out for obvious purposes.

 

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Thanks for responding to my posts in kind partisan. As I had earlier made clear I am not arguing here whether our attack on mensa was treaty wise defensive or offensive. I do still maintain that the war would not have happened if vanguard had not been raided. As far as mensa-vanguard not being one of the main agendas of rose at the time when tlf thing was happening is either a misunderstanding on your part about our intentions or misinformation from tim during the transition that occured. Mensa-vanguard was discussed even with sk a week before I talked to you about it, since sk and rose shared a mutual ally dhe, we were becoming quite close to them and shared this concern with them first before taking it up with ts. Your agreement to the proposal of rose and mensa having a 1v1 clearly shows that the whole war was very little about which treaty traps activate and more about how to resolve real issues. Fark entering alongside rose in the attacks was a major fact mainly due to the history fark and wtf shared in dealing with mensa and their own willingness to deal with the issue. The SK attack on nac was not an easy matter to deal with and your own allies were frustrated about the response made after that war. Our exit from the war was also swift, even though rose were basically sitting ducks we made sure the peace agreement was ratified by all parties involved before we officially exited. Your concerns surrounding my activity are valid and I don't blame you for that, we have always been under awkward positions of FA whenever things get heated up. Pretty sure we have also been equally in favorable positions of FA when we have been active.

 

 

[Ivan the Red]

Alpha doesn't want the war, if anything happens, it is because tS wanted it

 

Alpha wants the war. What they don't want, is to be on the first line of it. Now that they have realized that if this ignites we are going to ignore the meatshields and make a beeline to their pixels, they want to backpedal. Nice. All we say is, you started this militarization spree, you begin the demilitarization process.

Edited April 21, 2016 by Ivan the Red

[Boony]

Alpha wants the war. What they don't want, is to be on the first line of it. Now that they have realized that if this ignites we are going to ignore the meatshields and make a beeline to their pixels, they want to backpedal. Nice. All we say is, you started this militarization spree, you begin the demilitarization process.

Not even Ivan. Disregarding who should demilitirze first for whatever reason, he said he was demilitirzing, so should be demilitirizing.

[Moreau]

To be honest, Alpha could have attacked you anytime after the last war and get you rolled easily cause you weren't militarized, and they were

 

A point conveniently overlooked.

 

lol no.  They're too high tier.  We'd basically pull what Arrgh did to Mensa, just take players down one by one and carry them down to zero land.

 

There were plenty of allies in shit-tier range to clean up after Alpha.

Edited April 21, 2016 by Moreau III

[Prefontaine]

Alpha doesn't want the war, if anything happens, it is because tS wanted it

 

 

If Alpha didn't want a war, how come their longest running ally is under the impression they were willing to attack TEst even if the intel about us planning to hit Sparta was proved false?

[War Hawk]

-snibedysnab-

 

#RollAlpha2016

[Buorhann]

My opinion of Rose just went positive somehow.  What the hell is this?

[Stormrideron]

This thread reeks of Partisan's dead ghost snake skin.

[Ivan the Red]

-stuff-

 

Looks shopped to me. 

[fistofdoom]

look at all that black gold

[fistofdoom]

Looks shopped to me. 

if pre shopped it, it would not be half-assed, tell me how it looks shopped so i know what i'm looking for

[Kemal Ergenekon]

That's a genuine Oblige post. Resident whale expert here.

[Ivan the Red]