Impero Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 You'd be surprised about the amount of stuff hes caused in the background. Not just in FIRE but in the top 30 alliances No I mean honestly, he really did literally nothing he claimed to have done in regards to us and ours. It was a pretty awesome read though. Lord of the Viridian Entente Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellhound Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 (edited) That's the thread that I was referring to... Why did someone blow their load this early when it was a waiting game? (Wasn't it the new admin that posted it too?) From what I understand Malone was bringing it to light to the general community and had planned on exiting the game entirely until him and Sheepy talked about it and he became an admin. He wasn't involved in trying to track down anyone or anything like that. Edited July 7, 2015 by Shellhound Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zygon Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 o/ Long Live PnW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneTrueGod Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 (edited) I was sent a message today from VE in game to be on the lookout for suspicious trades and to not accept them and after reading this I think my nation may have been a "victim" (or beneficiary) of this exploit. Shortly after my nation joined VE I received around 5,000 bauxite seemingly out of nowhere. At the time I was actually selling bauxite, not buying it, let alone in that quantity. I was new to the game at the time and didn't realize what was happening (nor did I really care--at the time). It was around the same time as this post, so I'm fairly certain this happened to several nations: http://politicsandwar.com/forums/index.php?/topic/6490-coal-bug/ And I can't seem to edit my nation link which I mistyped when registering, which is actually 17974, not 17794 Edited July 7, 2015 by OneTrueGod 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacob Hanson Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Im just running around yelling... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhFHIlwCSq0 Those gentlemen smelled of cheating... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Alex Posted July 7, 2015 Author Administrators Share Posted July 7, 2015 can credits that have already been purchased but not used still be used? Yes. I'm a very active trader. If I get to know of some problem in the trade system, then I'll let you two know. Good luck guys, hope you can find it soon ! Does this mean you already know who is cheating? Yes, as I pointed out in the OP, I've got an idea of who is behind the exploit. However, with proxies and stuff it's hard to necessarily nail down their in-game nation, and even if I do that won't stop them from coming back. The issue isn't necessarily the who, it's the how, and that's what we're focused on currently. Except when Pol Pot "helped" UPN, we reported it straight away, and then had the exploited money erased. Whereas in this case, many people were in the know -- yet didn't speak up. That's nearly as bad as doing the act yourself imo. Especially since it allowed for this to go on for so long, and there's a significant amount of exploited money in the system. Also Sheepy you told me that you managed to setup something to track the exploit, and find out where the vulnerability. Why the hell was a topic posted before you tracked down the bug then? Use some common sense... On another note, since you seem to ignore pretty much everything we speak about in query, let me raise this point publicly. You make enough from this game to hire an ethical hacker. Just do it. I didn't post the topic, and had no intention of doing so. I wanted to wait it out, fix it, and then ban the offenders. This whole ordeal wasn't exactly planned. As for an "ethical hacker" I've brought Malone on board, who has experience and is going to work with me to help fix the issue. 2 Is there a bug? Report It | Not understanding game mechanics? Ask About It | Got a good idea? Suggest ItForums Rules | Game Link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacob Hanson Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Yes. Yes, as I pointed out in the OP, I've got an idea of who is behind the exploit. However, with proxies and stuff it's hard to necessarily nail down their in-game nation, and even if I do that won't stop them from coming back. The issue isn't necessarily the who, it's the how, and that's what we're focused on currently. Perhaps keeping a running number on generated income per nation? I know this is difficult with trades etc. Every turn though the game could save the generated income and add it to the total number. Obviously strange influxes should raise an alarm. My point being at any one point a nation should only produce so much, with alliance grants etc that may change things but the growth we experienced with nations like... Nation: https://politicsandwar.com/nation/id=11943 Trades: https://politicsandwar.com/nation/id=11943&display=trade This nation went from 350 points to 1K in a few days, after being inactive for two weeks. It was one of the nations Last was initially accused of cheating with, I knew his numbers could never have been right, as he called it "Linear Growth" even if aided by his large nation was still not possible. Monitering for large influxes of cash/resources (Simple avg market price formula will allow for you to at least create a baseline when it comes to value of resources, perhaps if you want to put more effort in it generated income can also come from market sales.) Anyways admin in (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways) did the same thing, for a reason I think is similar. If a nation magically appears with a hyper "effective" nation; eyebrows should be raised. Keeping track of expenses is probably also important. This would be a first step to trying to at least monitor this situation. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Alex Posted July 7, 2015 Author Administrators Share Posted July 7, 2015 Perhaps keeping a running number on generated income per nation? I know this is difficult with trades etc. Every turn though the game could save the generated income and add it to the total number. Obviously strange influxes should raise an alarm. My point being at any one point a nation should only produce so much, with alliance grants etc that may change things but the growth we experienced with nations like... Nation: https://politicsandwar.com/nation/id=11943 Trades: https://politicsandwar.com/nation/id=11943&display=trade This nation went from 350 points to 1K in a few days, after being inactive for two weeks. It was one of the nations Last was initially accused of cheating with, I knew his numbers could never have been right, as he called it "Linear Growth" even if aided by his large nation was still not possible. Monitering for large influxes of cash/resources (Simple avg market price formula will allow for you to at least create a baseline when it comes to value of resources, perhaps if you want to put more effort in it generated income can also come from market sales.) Anyways admin in (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways) did the same thing, for a reason I think is similar. If a nation magically appears with a hyper "effective" nation; eyebrows should be raised. Keeping track of expenses is probably also important. This would be a first step to trying to at least monitor this situation. That nation is banned, and I moved it to Vacation Mode for the time being, just for everyone's information. If you know of any other cheaters, such as this nation, please do send me a PM so I can look at them. 1 Is there a bug? Report It | Not understanding game mechanics? Ask About It | Got a good idea? Suggest ItForums Rules | Game Link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odin Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 (edited) Can you add a Leaderbord: Topnations by nationgrowth/month ? Would maybe help to see the cheaters directly, like https://politicsandwar.com/nation/id=7112 spotted by Godfrey? All of Terradoxia seems to be cheating, huh? Edited July 7, 2015 by Wilhelm II 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellhound Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Can you add a Leaderbord: Topnations by nationgrowth/month ? Would maybe help to see the cheaters directly, like https://politicsandwar.com/nation/id=7112 spotted by Godfrey? All of Terradoxia seems to be cheating, huh? His bank transaction seem to be just a little bit suspect. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaguar Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 lol is there any cheating where Terradoxia isn't involved? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alataq Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 (edited) I was inactive for a while and found myself with a large stockpile of resources which I sold and cash which I used to jump. Sheepy can check my nation out if he wants to, no cheating here. Lmfao. You didn't look inactive. Your activity has been going on for the past month with no inactive streaks Edited July 7, 2015 by Alataq 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saru Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 His bank transaction seem to be just a little bit suspect. I don't know whether the Terradoxia gov sanctioned this and were aware of this. But I know that before the cheaters got caught they said would target other alliances to try and make them look bad -- Cobalt and VE were the other ones mentioned. And one of them did join VE, but once Impero heard about it, he removed him from the alliance before he could donate money etc... 2 Second in Command of UPN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alataq Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 I don't know whether the Terradoxia gov sanctioned this and were aware of this. But I know that before the cheaters got caught they said would target other alliances to try and make them look bad -- Cobalt and VE were the other ones mentioned. And one of them did join VE, but once Impero heard about it, he removed him from the alliance before he could donate money etc... Terradoxia HAD to know something was up. They get tons of free cash and then use all of that free cash to fund everybody's cities. It's clear that they should've known something was up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saru Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 (edited) Terradoxia HAD to know something was up. They get tons of free cash and then use all of that free cash to fund everybody's cities. It's clear that they should've known something was up. In the same way that everyone knew something was up with Last... And in the same way that countless of nations that benefited from the various sweetheart deals made by the nations who cheated. Yes, they probably gained an advantage. But let's not lose perspective that they far from the only ones. Edited July 7, 2015 by Saru Second in Command of UPN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phiney Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 I don't know whether the Terradoxia gov sanctioned this and were aware of this. But I know that before the cheaters got caught they said would target other alliances to try and make them look bad -- Cobalt and VE were the other ones mentioned. And one of them did join VE, but once Impero heard about it, he removed him from the alliance before he could donate money etc... So you're saying Impero knew about it and who was doing it and didn't report it? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELPINCHAZO Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 In the same way that everyone knew something was up with Last... And in the same way that countless of nations that benefited from the various sweetheart deals made by the nations who cheated. Yes, they probably gained an advantage. But let's not lose perspective that they far from the only ones. I'd like to see more specific details about this rather than some dismissive hand waving because,the degree of knowledge and inaction has to make some people take some responsibility. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saru Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 (edited) So you're saying Impero knew about it and who was doing it and didn't report it? I'm saying there was several who knew who was doing it and reported it ages ago. Some in Rose said they had heard 2months ago and passed this onto Sheepy apparently. Yet just because there was nothing "definitive" he held off on appropriate action. For the VE case specifically, I was told that the cheaters were going to try and join other alliances, i.e Terradoxia/VE/Cobalt, and try to donate money into them. Once Impero found out, he kicked the member out to avoid getting his alliance caught up in this. I didn't mean to insinuate the VE were part of it and didn't report it, if it came across that way, then it was poor wording on my part. Edited July 7, 2015 by Saru 1 Second in Command of UPN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jroc Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 So you're saying Impero knew about it and who was doing it and didn't report it? That's how I read that too Phiney. Either way, I sure hope y'all can figure out who the cheater is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saru Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 (edited) I'd like to see more specific details about this rather than some dismissive hand waving because,the degree of knowledge and inaction has to make some people take some responsibility. Specific details of money being given to certain parties by the cheaters? Well it took me 30 secs to go through Ghost's logs and find this: https://politicsandwar.com/nation/id=10462&display=trade 10mill from one of the cheaters to Franz. Given that this went on for months, it's safe to say many people "benefited" ... The most degree of knowledge and inaction was on the part of the admin imo. Edited July 7, 2015 by Saru Second in Command of UPN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 I'm saying there was several of us who knew who was doing it and reported it ages ago. Some in Rose said they had heard 2months ago and passed this onto Sheepy apparently. Yet just because there was nothing "definitive" he held off on appropriate action. For the VE case specifically, I was told that the cheaters were going to try and join other alliances, i.e Terradoxia/VE/Cobalt, and try to donate money into them. Once Impero found out, he kicked the member out to avoid getting his alliance caught up in this. Ghost admitted to funding Last187 and TDX. As for VE/Cobalt yes they were going to try and infiltrate those 2 and then get leadership banned. I immediately reported that to Sheepy as well and then let Impero know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saru Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Ghost admitted to funding Last187 and TDX. As for VE/Cobalt yes they were going to try and infiltrate those 2 and then get leadership banned. I immediately reported that to Sheepy as well and then let Impero know. Didn't he also admit to "funding" VE/Rose? But both denied those claims. So we don't know how much truth there is in what he said. Second in Command of UPN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 All Ghost Logs. Have fun. http://pastebin.com/CTCUSXye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRBOOTY Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 I was inactive for a while and found myself with a large stockpile of resources which I sold and cash which I used to jump. Sheepy can check my nation out if he wants to, no cheating here. Lmfao. That's... the exact opposite way you would grow a nation... VE until just now has been unaware of the selling our resources at ridiculous prices to Eru Iluvatar. I havw looked down the trade history and noted odd trades with this nation and we will look into it. This is exactly how the exploit worked... And the guy was in "Doom Kingdom", Ghost's old alliance. And now he's in Terradoxia... Hold up, were you !@#$ing about an exploit that you benefited from? 1 MR BOOTY IN DA HOUSE http://i.imgur.com/R5WWAB1.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impero Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 (edited) So you're saying Impero knew about it and who was doing it and didn't report it? Incorrect. I've been on contact with sheepy on the Ghost issue last week as soon as it was brought to my attention, as there was another plot to have people join VE, spread cash around, and try to get a lot of us banned. The guy we removed from VE (and Vanguard removed today) was just a Doom Kingdom nation who I didn't like the look of. I assume his intent was to do the spreading cash around thing, however he never got to spend more then 2 minutes as a member. I have reported his nation, however I'm not sure if anything can be done now that the cat is out of the bag since it doesn't look like he used the exploit himself yet. Edit: As Rampage makes note of here Ghost admitted to funding Last187 and TDX. As for VE/Cobalt yes they were going to try and infiltrate those 2 and then get leadership banned. I immediately reported that to Sheepy as well and then let Impero know. Edited July 7, 2015 by Impero Lord of the Viridian Entente Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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